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Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
1:44 AM
→ 17 messages moved to Chimney
 
 
4 hours later…
Martin
Martin
6:02 AM
Is there a problem with the community bulletin (hot meta posts) also on some other sites?
 
Catija
Catija
@Martin Adam and I may have broken them on Thursday.
It's only showing FRs, not discussions... for some reason. It's actually supposed to be showing either... that question has both discussion and FR... I wonder whether it's requiring FR or FR and discussion...
There's only about five sites with any hot meta posts and they all seem to have both tags except maybe one on SOJa.
4
Q: スタックオーバーフローの投稿における著作者人格権の主張について

keitaro_so関連議題 勝手に質問を編集されるのを禁止するオプションが欲しい ネコ語の語尾を編集して「ですます体」にするのは問題ないか？ 文体違法改悪改ざんに付いて。 恥ずかしながら著作者人格権というものを最近知り、いくつか書籍を参考に理解を進めましたが、 スタックオーバーフローにおける著作者人格権の扱いが不十分ではないかという疑念が生まれました。 著作者人格権 とは著作権の一部であり、著作物の創作者である著作者が精神的に傷つけられないよう保護する権利の総称である。美術・文芸・楽曲・映像といった著作物には、著作者の思想や感情が色濃く反映されているため、第三者による著作物の利用態様によっては著作者の人...

討議
But we can special case the sites, so it's possible they just have a different rule in general. Will investigate in the morning.
 
Martin
Martin
6:36 AM
@Catija Thanks for the response.
 
Sonic the Curiouser Hedgehog
Sonic the Curiouser Hedgehog
@Catija Speaking of localized sites and hot meta posts, there's been a long-standing bug report that posts with status tags aren't being excluded from the list on international sites. Is it because the regex is generalized to [status-*] and doesn't consider the other names on international sites?
 
Catija
Catija
Shouldn't be. Probably just their rules are different. The system is set up so that the four primary tags plus the status tags are synonymous in English and the localized language.
 
Sonic the Curiouser Hedgehog
Sonic the Curiouser Hedgehog
So you're saying, it's been adjusted for all the international sites individually that their Hot Meta Posts blocks should include posts with moderator status tags, unlike the English sites?
 
Catija
Catija
@Martin for reference:
40
Q: Feature non-[discussion] meta post in the community bulletin

BraiamAccording to this feature request: So, for Meta Stack Overflow only, we'll now be featuring all hot meta questions scoring 3 or more in the bulletin. And we'll exclude those more than 3 days old, to keep it fresh. As before, the list will be chosen randomly every 20 minutes or thereabouts from t...

feature-request status-completed community-bulletin
@SonictheCuriouserHedgehog don't know. Would have to get a dev to check.
 
Sonic the Curiouser Hedgehog
Sonic the Curiouser Hedgehog
tl;dr: before the 2019 move to remove Hot Meta Posts on SO, there was a site-specific override in place there that that block would include all posts, as opposed to the network-wide default of only including posts tagged discussion. When the block was re-enabled there, this override wasn't reinstated. After discussion, the team decided not to reinstate the override, but instead change the network default to include discussions and feature requests.
 
Catija
Catija
6:48 AM
To be fair the network default coded into the system is that - both discussion and FR. At some point the entire network was changed to discussion only... and considering it's currently failing to show both... maybe it was that way because showing both didn't work...
Actually, shortly after the change went out, the bulletin was showing neither - network-wide. Then Adam said he figured out why and he thought he fixed it ... but seems not to be the case.
 
Sonic the Curiouser Hedgehog
Sonic the Curiouser Hedgehog
So it seems that the system that chooses tags probably isn't regex-based
 
 
2 hours later…
rene
rene
8:27 AM
→ 8 messages moved to Chimney
 
 
5 hours later…
rene
rene
1:35 PM
→ 18 messages moved to Chimney
 
Shadow The Vaccinated Wizard
Shadow The Vaccinated Wizard
1:51 PM
@JourneymanGeek please lock this answer after rolling back to Sonic's edit.
While at it, free rude/abusive comment flags here.
 
Spevacus
Spevacus
Rollback wars on the FAQ for rollbacks! What is this world coming to?
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
@Spevacus Just people knowing to trust nothing on the internet. @Sonic where do you get that info you added in, I don't see it anywhere else?
 
Spevacus
Spevacus
Hovering over the "Rollback" button from the revision history reveals a tooltip that says that the rollback will reset rude/abusive flags, but I've definitely flagged something on SO as R/A, watched it get rolled back, and browsed my flag history to see that my R/A flag was still pending. I'm curious if that tooltip is correct.
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
Seems we have to wait for Sonic.
OTOH, that statement was there since '17, according to revision history. Without any sources, but...
 
Meta Andrew T.
Meta Andrew T.
erh, why was it rolled back in the first place?
 
Spevacus
Spevacus
2:02 PM
The rollback-er disagreed with the edits Sonic made... 4 years ago.
 
Feeds
Feeds
A look under the hood: how branches work in Git
Ryan Donovan on April 05, 2021
Git branches! They allow you to keep different versions of your code cleanly separated. Here’s a look at how they work and why you should know about them.
 
Meta Andrew T.
Meta Andrew T.
@Feeds how oneboxes work in Chat!
anyway, re: rollback, someone want to do science on MSE with me?
 
Spevacus
Spevacus
What's the plan, sir?
 
Meta Andrew T.
Meta Andrew T.
wait, I forgot the scenario...
need 1 poster and 2 flaggers I think...
 
Rob
Rob
These sources are old, but rolling clears flags: meta.stackexchange.com/a/207906/282094 and meta.stackexchange.com/a/65624/282094 - all those rolls have set a mod flag; so just leave it.
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
2:08 PM
0
Q: Why aren't roll back invalidating spam/rude flags?

BraiamAccording to the FAQ, roll back invalidate spam/rude flags. To test this theory and have the accurate representation of what the system does, I flagged this answer as spam and proceeded to roll it back to the previous revision. I expected the flag to be dismissed, but it wasn't. I rolled it back ...

support flags rollbacks
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
@MetaAndrewT. and mod attention flags are special
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
@Rob Those posts don't make things as complicated as the faq though: They talk about straightforward 'rollback clears flags' scenarios. Nothing there about a rollback only invalidating flags cast since that revision.
 
Meta Andrew T.
Meta Andrew T.
I think we need mods to check the flag on that post
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
I can confirm I had to manually decline the flag Braiam raised.
 
Spevacus
Spevacus
I wonder if the same would happen with an R/A flag.
I could see why a spam flag wouldn't be invalidated by a rollback. A rude flag, though...
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
2:16 PM
@Spevacus Eh, one of the posts Rob just linked states why spam flags are cleared on roll back: The idea is that if someone edits in spam, and someone else rolls it back, the flags are cleared too.
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
spam and RA flags are "the same"
 
Spevacus
Spevacus
@Tinkeringbell I suppose that makes sense.
 
Meta Andrew T.
Meta Andrew T.
so... with Braiam agreeing to be the guinea pig, we need
- someone flag it as R/A
- someone else edit it
- another flag it as R/A
- rollback
 
Braiam
Braiam
@MetaAndrewT. For the interest of science, editors, rollbackers (?) and flaggers need all to be different accounts.
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
I'll do a flag! XD
 
Meta Andrew T.
Meta Andrew T.
2:24 PM
yeah, I'm including those factors
@Tinkeringbell No! XD
 
Braiam
Braiam
Tinker user name isn't shown in chat, and this is my 0 userscript system.
 
Meta Andrew T.
Meta Andrew T.
@Spevacus are you here? wanna do a flag?
 
Braiam
Braiam
Jou username does show however.
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
@Braiam Weird. Ah well, I know my name! :P
 
Braiam
Braiam
Something something 1024x768 resolution something
I put zoom to 90% and can now see it
 
Spevacus
Spevacus
2:28 PM
@MetaAndrewT. I'll do a flag. Where at, sir?
 
Meta Andrew T.
Meta Andrew T.
let us know if it's done
 
Spevacus
Spevacus
What brand of flag would you like? I've got spam flags, mod flags...
 
Braiam
Braiam
Weird, if I use Times New Roman it is shown.
 
Spevacus
Spevacus
I'm assuming you'd want a spam or R/A flag
 
Meta Andrew T.
Meta Andrew T.
R/A would be okay, since the FAQ mentions "offensive" flag
 
Spevacus
Spevacus
2:30 PM
Sure thang. Firing.
Fired, @MetaAndrewT.
 
rene
rene
Awesome, can we get @Braiam Q-banned?
 
Meta Andrew T.
Meta Andrew T.
@rene uh oh :D
 
Braiam
Braiam
I am afraid it will take too many posts to do so ;)
 
Meta Andrew T.
Meta Andrew T.
welp, I'll edit it first
 
Spevacus
Spevacus
Well... I've already tossed one at this revision.
 
Braiam
Braiam
2:32 PM
Someone edit something rude about blurred content :D
 
Meta Andrew T.
Meta Andrew T.
done editing...
 
Spevacus
Spevacus
Alright, anyone wanna try rolling back to rev 2? That'd be before I flagged.
 
Braiam
Braiam
@Catija only discussions aren't hitting the CB. Feature request do hit the community bulletin.
 
Meta Andrew T.
Meta Andrew T.
I think we need someone else to add another flag to cover more possible situations
@rene want to put Braiam into Q-banned join the flag?
 
Spevacus
Spevacus
Join the Flag Corps
@Rob Are you around? Would you be interested in participating in science?
 
rene
rene
2:40 PM
@MetaAndrewT. yep, flagged as well
 
Braiam
Braiam
Now, someone that haven't flagged or edited the question, roll back away.
 
Meta Andrew T.
Meta Andrew T.
okay, need the roll backer (or roller back?)
 
Spevacus
Spevacus
We could try going all the way back to revision 1 to be absolutely sure we do our best to "clear" everything.
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
Going back to rev 3 didn't do a thing.
 
Meta Andrew T.
Meta Andrew T.
yep, looks like the flags stay
 
Spevacus
Spevacus
2:41 PM
Haha! I knew my experience on SO wasn't a fluke.
 
Braiam
Braiam
@Spevacus Sadly that was anecdotal evidence, now we have real !!SCIENCE!!
 
Spevacus
Spevacus
/o/ Science!
Shall I retract my flag now?
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
Sure, I could also decline them :D
 
Spevacus
Spevacus
I've been scouring the code trying to figure out how this works since you posted it and... I cannot actually find any references in the current code that would even attempt to clear Spam/Offensive flags on a rollback. It doesn't appear to be broken more than completely removed, and I have no idea why. — animuson ♦ 18 secs ago
Interesting stuff.
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
The mystery of the disappearing code....
 
Braiam
Braiam
2:44 PM
Good think that you use git and can search previous revisions... right?
 
Meta Andrew T.
Meta Andrew T.
Feel fee to retract them @Spevacus @rene
 
Spevacus
Spevacus
To be fair, the answers we have that mention rollbacks clearing flags are pretty darn old. It's possible those repositories were abandoned and their commit histories lost to time.
 
Meta Andrew T.
Meta Andrew T.
and thanks for joining MythBuster...
 
Spevacus
Spevacus
Thanks for coordinating it :)
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
@Braiam @Sonic @Shadow I'm going to leave the faq that started all this as is for now, until it's figured out what the actual functionality should be, and whether this is broken or just removed. I figure with all of you here, I don't have to lock it rn ;)
 
Braiam
Braiam
2:47 PM
@Tinkeringbell do you have access to code? Does the flag table stores the revision it was cast?
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
Just a moderator here, so no access to code...
 
Meta Andrew T.
Meta Andrew T.
@Spevacus well, even the tooltip says so... or perhaps all of us were fooled by it in the first place...
 
Braiam
Braiam
Aww...
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
Hahaha I'd probably break more than I'd fix, so this is probably a good thing :P
 
Braiam
Braiam
Hey, if you don't introduce bugs in the code while fixing others, you are not a real programmer
 
Meta Andrew T.
Meta Andrew T.
2:51 PM
Checking with my mod hat, the flag table doesn't seem to show the revision # at all
 
Braiam
Braiam
Yeah, sede doesn't hint at it either.
 
Rob
Rob
@Spevacus I've created a Badge, not sure who gets it:
 
Meta Andrew T.
Meta Andrew T.
There's creation date though, so it is possible to check based on the cast time (yep, "possible", only if it's working in the first place :)
 
Spevacus
Spevacus
@Rob lol
 
Catija
Catija
@Braiam ... but what I was seeing last night is that all of the questions that do appear in the HMP have both tags, not only one or the other. - Except Japanese SO.
 
Braiam
Braiam
2:54 PM
@MetaAndrewT. That would be a fun racing condition to check for :D
 
Catija
Catija
Now, we wait. :P
 
Meta Andrew T.
Meta Andrew T.
testing on (M)SO is a bit scary because it's unpredictable :S
 
Rob
Rob
Seriously though, we might have encouraged the codes removal by flags being declined; when they were valid at the moment that they were cast, and (annoyingly) subsequently declined after an edit.
 
PM 2Ring
PM 2Ring
@Rob Is there some subtle joke behind the misspelling of "Michael", or is it just a typo?
 
Rob
Rob
Avoids ©
 
rene
rene
2:58 PM
@MetaAndrewT. done
 
Braiam
Braiam
It would be funny that the bug is that it isn't added if it doesn't have both tags, but doesn't get removed if only have one @Catija :D
 
Catija
Catija
It's hard for me to even ascertain easily if meta sites have questions tagged FR asked in the last 14 days... someone could query it, though.
 
Braiam
Braiam
In this case it was removed due the removal of the feature request tag meta.stackoverflow.com/posts/406539/revisions
 
Catija
Catija
Yeah. Seems like there's definitely something broken.
 
Braiam
Braiam
The opposite case hasn't been ascertained.
BTW, SE does use some kind of fancy testing (unit testing, etc.) or everything is trial by fire?
 
PM 2Ring
PM 2Ring
3:04 PM
@Rob Oh, ok. You can't really copyright a name. OTOH, his name is a registered trademark, and trademark law is pretty tough.
 
Catija
Catija
@Braiam We test (though I'm not a dev so I couldn't tell you how comprehensive it is) - some things are hard to test and some things don't act in dev the way they do on site.
 
PM 2Ring
PM 2Ring
@Braiam I remember a dev saying they'd missed some bug during testing. But I guess some things are pretty hard to test in the dev environment. And with a system this complex, it's impossible to test everything in an integrated test. But hopefully they unit test everything. Yaakov could tell us about that...
 
Catija
Catija
He's on sabbatical.
 
PM 2Ring
PM 2Ring
Ah, right.
 
Rob
Rob
@PM2Ring I can't find who said it first, but "Meddle like Phelps" is a fairly popular expression. Spelling medal or meddle doesn't turn anything up on the first page.
 
Braiam
Braiam
3:17 PM
@Catija its gone.
 
Catija
Catija
@Braiam that didn't take long. Can you report on MSE with the information?
 
Rob
Rob
3:30 PM
@PM2Ring Another expression, that would be Copyrighted, is "... a Bette Meddler, with a gold medal, for meddling ...".
 
 
2 hours later…
g3rv4
g3rv4
5:43 PM
@PM2Ring we they have unit tests and integration tests that run on every commit
what warrants a test and what doesn't is up to the dev (and the reviewer's) criteria
 
Mithical
Mithical
6:10 PM
@g3rv4 Oh, are you no longer at SO?
Your SO profile shows a diamond on the side but no staff or mod flag, which I guess is down to caching.
 
g3rv4
g3rv4
yup, my last day was March 29
 
VLAZ
VLAZ
@Mithical He will always be a treasure in our hearts.
 
g3rv4
g3rv4
noticed that... the fun thing is that I wasn't a mod at SO when I left
 
M.A.R.
M.A.R.
6:27 PM
@VLAZ I uh, that sounds unhealthy.
 
VLAZ
VLAZ
Potentially unhealthy. I've had to fight off three treasure hunters today.
 
M.A.R.
M.A.R.
Just don't throw the treasure where it might cause some clogging
 
VLAZ
VLAZ
6:50 PM
No worries: my heart is shrivelled and made of ice. 🖤
 
Sonic the Curiouser Hedgehog
Sonic the Curiouser Hedgehog
7:03 PM
Looking through old FAQ revisions, I can see that the idea that red flags get removed when a post is rolled back was present in the rollback FAQ since its very first revision in 2008. It's also been in the red flag FAQ since its very first revision in 2010. I'm trying to see if it was mentioned on the blog somewhere, especially since it's so old and neither provides a source. — Sonic the Curiouser Hedgehog 6 secs ago
cc @Tinkeringbell @ShadowTheVaccinatedWizard
@Tinkeringbell My edit in 2017 to the rollback FAQ was simply a rephrasing of the text in the red flag FAQ, to replace a much more terse sentence stating the same thing (which hadn't changed much since 2008).
 
 
1 hour later…
M.A.R.
M.A.R.
8:22 PM
@VLAZ That looks like it's made of chocolate
Tread carefully, young traveller, where the chocolate eaters dwell
 
user400654
user400654
8:35 PM
🚽
 
 
3 hours later…
Rob
Rob
11:43 PM
@Spevacus There's some support for leaving it as-is; as it retains the flags on what was rather than what is visible at first glance, prompting a closer look.
 
Feeds
Feeds
 

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