@404 Having refreshed my memory of the movie - there's another line there that sort of matches the experience of being a professor...

> I get older, they stay the same age.

Except... the context...

So using it in a headline would be way beyond.

@JourneymanGeek User Atul asked for a site recommendation in their question on Meta, but was piled on and closed OT. - If I could ping RobertC here I would have brought this up with him instead. Thanks for looking, and whatever you decide

@Rob hey. I'm at work. Flag it an I'll take a look after lunch

@Rob reopened

Go post an answer please

What are the rules for opening bounties? Is there a set list of rules?

I just had a moderator message stating that a bounty was canceled by moderators.

@forest Mind posting a screenshot of the mod message?

@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog I don't have the ability to take screenshots, but I can post a copy.

It says it is a confidential and private communication. I would just like to clarify that that is for my sake, and that I am allowed to post a moderator message in public, before I do.

Yes, you are allowed.

> We have cancelled your bounty on meta.stackexchange.com/q/314981/384528. Now that the issue you were discussing in chat (presumably why you started this bounty) has been cleared up, we see no need to keep highlighting this question. The original question was resolved a year ago.

The intention of the bounty "presumably why [...]" was assumed, and assumed incorrectly.

Moderators can't disclose it, especially when there's a suspension involved, but the user can discuss it freely.

In particular, I don't see why "we see no need to keep highlighting this question" is a reason to cancel a bounty. It's my rep that I'm putting into it, and I do not believe there are limits on bounties as to whether or not they can only be created for questions that moderators feel a "need to keep highlighting".

@forest Could you please post a link to the question involved?

I did. It was in the above message.

Oops, I missed it

Personally, I'm genuinely intrigued about the situation.

As am I. I don't want to assume malice or censorship, so my first assumption is that it's a misunderstanding and moderators were just trying to be helpful so I don't waste rep.

Maybe someone else will bounty the question instead of me, if they see it...

@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog To clarify, will I need to worry about suspensions if I re-instate the bounty? It looks to me like staff were just trying to be helpful but misunderstood the bounty's intention. However if that's not the case and it turns out that it is not permissible to bounty "resolved" questions, then I don't want to go against the rules, even if I wasn't aware of them.

@forest I'm writing a meta on this; please wait.

Thank you.

@JourneymanGeek Thanks. Our good deed for the day.

@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog Regarding your last paragraph, there is no history of bounty abuse (or any site mechanic abuse, e.g. vote fraud). In fact, this is the first time this happened.

I'm writing as a neutral person.

ok

In Sonic news, I got my first Genesis today!

An original?

Yes and no

It's a Radica model, which contains an actual Genesis condensed down to a single chip

Unfortunately, I'll have to make one change to it, since the manufacturer screwed up

Cue the downvotes...

It seems pretty much all questions on Meta get a few downvotes. :P

> we see no need to keep highlighting this question

I've found that not posting it in Tavern results in substantially less downvotes, though.

I think that just about spells it out

@JourneymanGeek I was not aware that bounties can only be awarded to answers which a moderator approves of as needing further views. Site rules concur.

@JourneymanGeek If they had instead specified that it was to be awarded to an existing answer, would it have been cancelled for this reason?

@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog honestly? I think its... complicated

I specified "more attention" because I wanted to see more answers with valuable input.

Ideally from official sources.

If none are posted by the time the bounty is about to expire, I'd award it manually to the top answer.

@forest Well, there is a heavily downvoted official response

@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog That is true, but it does not seem useful to me.

@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog so more or less, the answer is in the comments.

I'd also... sort of strongly suggest that the question might be generally unhelpful

@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog That is what I plan to do if that specific bounty isn't manually re-applied, although I would rather try to promote more input instead of simply rewarding an existing answer (since the "award an answer" bounty reason may discourage additional answers).

@forest eh. I'd strongly discourage that. Unless of course what you're trying to do is cause more drama, and that would be unfortunate.

@forest Why not use one of the reasons that mention "current answers"? The "draw attention" reason is more for the case where no answers are being received.

@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog Oh, thanks. I might have used the bounty reason wrong. :/

"The current answers do not contain enough detail" ("improve details") would have been a better option for your use case.

@JourneymanGeek Is this drama? I hope not.

@forest it is nothing but

@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog Ah... that is true.

And I suspect you're at least dimly aware of that.

But the fact of the matter is, I don't see an explicit policy basis that says it's not permitted to set bounties to draw attention to answered questions.

@JourneymanGeek I was trying to assume good intent, that moderators simply thought I had opened a bounty and regretted wasting rep. Is that not the case?

@forest not from what the mod message says.

@JourneymanGeek The mod message incorrectly assumes what my intent was.

So I can't put much faith into it as it was based on false premises, even if it was good intentions.

@forest I think the intent of the mod message is pretty clear

> we see no need to keep highlighting this question

@JourneymanGeek My cynical self is telling me that the intent is "don't bring attention to problems in Stack Exchange", but you've told me not to assume bad intent, and I'm trying to do that.

Let me assist by picking out the specific part of the mod message you need to read.

Thank you for picking that out. However, I wanted to have more input to the question.

I will bounty it for the purposes of improving existing answers, then, rather than the previous reason.

@JourneymanGeek Is there an explicit policy basis or precedent that says or signifies that it's not OK to put up a bounty in that case?

@forest I don't think you should be

As Sonic has made me aware that I was misunderstanding that reason.

@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog eh, Its literally an issue that has already been handled

@JourneymanGeek If there is a rule against bountying old questions or questions that mods don't personally feel should be highlighted, could you point me to them? I did look, but found nothing.

and has an official response by the folks involved

@forest I'd wait until there's a response to my meta question before you put up another bounty.

@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog Good idea.

@JourneymanGeek I believe those are unhelpful. I wish to see them improved, or new answers to be posted. Would I be not permitted to downvote the answers either if I think they are unhelpful?

@forest vote as you wish

But not bounty as I wish? I still am not aware of any rules or precedent against that.

You were asked not to

I was? Can you link me to the relevant message?

I did. Twice.

I was told in a new question I opened that I could bounty as I wish.

@JourneymanGeek You recommended that I should not, and I agreed with both you and Sonic and I'll wait for an answer to his question. I wasn't aware that I was told not to. Thanks.

Let me reiterate.

Third time, mind you

Well 4th including the original mod message

I think you aren't reading what I have been saying.

@JourneymanGeek It's not exactly clear how that implies "please don't put another bounty on that question, for any reason". (I get it, but it took me multiple tries.)

I personally don't care if moderators feel like a question is worthy of being highlighted.

If someone asks you nicely to back off, MAYBE you should consider it

@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog Its precisely what it says

@forest well then, you were asked nicely, multiple times.

That is not what it says. Would you please re-read it? It is posted in an above comment in full.

By a number of people whose number may be equal to, and plausibly exceeds 1

@JourneymanGeek Please link to them. "We see no reason [...]" is a mod stating their opinion on whether or not the bounty is worth it. Is there a section of the message I missed?

sigh

"I see no reason why you'd want to do this, but if you really feel like it, go ahead." (That's one way one could interpret that.)

This is going around in circles. I don't think this is productive.

It isn't

@JourneymanGeek Perhaps then a clarifying message pointing me to the relevant rules should be posted. I do not want to violate any rules that I might not be aware of.

Nope

Once again

the mod message in this case is self explainatory in this specific instance

We asked nicely. Lots of times.

We have a specific request.

Really? I only got that one message, which didn't ask me anything.

For future mod messages, if one wants an explicit action, just ask for it explicitly, rather than leaving an interpretation loophole that allows them to think of it a different (wrong) way.

^

Simple question: Is it or is it not permitted to award an existing answer via a bounty? If not, then I would like to read the rules which state when it is and is not permitted to award an answer.

"We see no need to keep highlighting this question, and we hereby request that you do not put another bounty on it."

@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog We wouldn't have sent one if he hadn't bountied it

so lets not rules lawyer ;)

There would have been no need to send one anyway in that case.

The intent is extremely clear

@JourneymanGeek I'm sorry, but what you feel is clear is not clear to me and others.

@forest Well

That is why an MSE question was asked, to clarify that.

@JourneymanGeek Not trying to rules-lawyer or argue for one's specific case, just trying to make sense of the situation as an observer.

Please do not keep repeating an irrelevant snippet.

Well then

that's literally the response you're getting.

sigh

And the reiteration will continue until understanding is achieved

I'm afraid that's not how it works.

If someone says "huh?", they typically do not want a literal repeat of the previous sentence.

On the other hand, if I had said "sorry, I lost my scroll log. Can you post the message again?", repeating it would be helpful.

And as an observer, I've pointed out two things: 1. that I don't see a policy basis or precedent for disallowing bounties in that case, and 2. that it's hard for someone to infer that the text being repeated here that another bounty is not allowed.

Hey, if you keep talking in circles, I'm fine with cutting to the point.

@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog not everything is explicitly listed out. We're trusted to act as we see fit, and we review stuff as we do it.

For me when it comes to that text, the fact that you said that it implies that another bounty isn't allowed is good enough for me.

You really of all people should understand that

@JourneymanGeek What if anyone else bountied it? Is it me and me alone who cannot bounty?

And for what reasons am I allowed or not allowed to bounty questions?

So I don't think that trying to get that rehashed multiple times is worth anyone's time.

ON THE OTHER HAND, I do realise you're not good at picking up context. Which is literally "This was a mod message that was sent because someone bountied an old question that wasn't really something that ought to be dredged up again"

@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog I can do this all day.

@JourneymanGeek So can you link to, or write (in an answer), a rule that says that bounties are not permitted for controversial posts?

@forest I won't

Then all I can go off of is existing rules and answers, which say bounties are permitted.

In this specific instance, you were asked not to, and presumably that applies to the question as well.

Do you need me to bring up the relevant part of the mod message again?

No, I was not. If you would like to re-read the message, I can copy it for you.

I mean, you're clearly having trouble getting what is asked of you

And sometimes repetition is a great teacher

@forest That's defiance

Clearly. It turns out that, if I don't understand a sentence the first time, repeating it verbatim is unhelpful. It's like the old joke where someone says something confusing, the reply is "what?", and they repeat the same confusing thing again, verbatim.

We can keep trying until you get it.

@JourneymanGeek I would rather not be led in circles, thanks.

Excellent.

I am glad we have an understanding.

Oh, we don't have an understanding. I am still left with conflicting information.

I just stated that I do not feel like going in circles is helpful.

Oh, do you need me to repeat myself then?

@forest You were told (now, in this chat) explicitly not to bounty that question. I'd stop right there and not try to argue around what specific text implies that, etc.

Yet here you are.

Precisely

@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog It was hinted by one person. I would like it more explicitly given.

If that is the case, I want someone to say "it is not allowable to bounty controversial posts".

@forest Oh, you want it to be explicitly given....

But here you are

I'm not the one who's chasing my own tail

I feel like my brain is about to trigger a recursion error. :P

There's your base case

@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog FWIW, I think rene's answer to your question is excellent

@forest ok... CLEARLY we need to focus a little more

Yeah sorry. Too much self-reference and recursion. :P

> this question

Do you need me to define this?

No, I do not.

excellent

An implication nonetheless, but a much easier implication.

Ah, thank you.

Hm, reading the scroll log, I don't see that request.

(still looking)

Clicking on the "14 minutes ago" might help

I see that. Your next message was chat.meta.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/7880790#7880790.

> this

@JourneymanGeek If it is correct, would you please just say:

Or something of the sort?

Did I say that?

(Or s/controversial posts/this post/)

You didn't. I'm asking if you could and (ideally) post it as an answer to my question.

Does "This post" mean something... other than "This" and "Post" ?

I am perhaps talking about that post? Maybe talking about a pillar?

@JourneymanGeek In programming jargon, s/foo/bar/ means "mentally replace foo with bar".

Alright. "Moderators may revoke bounties if they feel that it draws unwanted promotion."

Is that what you want?

Nope

I'm not saying that

@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog Yes, if that's the requirement.

Well, then I've said it.

But now Journey is saying that's not what he means? :/

Nope.

@JourneymanGeek OK, then don't say it, but reaffirm it (e.g. "that is correct" in reference to the above). Right now, I wish to avoid being pushed into a situation with a loophole where I am permitted to do something, but where a non-binding hint tries to dissuade me.

Nope

I mean, I've said a lot. None of which means that.

I feel like you're intentionally trying to confuse me.

I'm trying to bring clarity.

It is you who are getting confused.

Didn't I just say that?

Nope

This is really weird. :/

I'm not trying to confuse anyone at all

Its not my fault if you're getting confused.

It feels like that's what's happening.

That tends to happen when you're confused

Some fresh air might help

Sure, it's not your fault. You just haven't helped alleviate my confusion. Sonic tried, but when I asked you if you could affirm what he said, you said "Nope".

Well tbh, being really high also isn't helping.

Probably isn't

@JourneymanGeek Well, to be entirely fair, I do see how your messages can provoke confusion.

@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog gee. I'm entirely straightforward and am trying very hard to condense things down to just the relevant parts

To me, the message could have meant two things. 1) "We thought you might have bountied this by mistake or you regret the bounty, so we're canceling it for you", or 2) "We don't want you to critique the site or bring up issues with the site, so we're going to censor any attempt to do so".

Apparently it wasn't either of those.

@JourneymanGeek I know it's not your intent. Your messages are quite general and helpful in negotiating general cases, but it would be nice if you also related them to the specific case.

Gee, why would we ever censor things?

@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog I did!

I noticed that @Tinkeringbell was also in the mod message. Perhaps she could give me an explanation that makes more sense than quoting a confusing message?

Give me time to catch up here... I get the feeling there's waaaay more text than necessary.

Mod messages are anonymous, whatever would have given you the idea?

@Tinkeringbell Well it's mostly redundant. tl;dr is meta.stackexchange.com/q/332843/384528

@forest it really is very simple....

@JourneymanGeek They are? I could have sworn it gave a list.

@forest nope

hasn't in ages

Ok, I must be really high. :/

Mod messages are signed by the team

So... I half suspect that might be contributing to your... current state

A quick check of the revision history would reveal the specific mod responsible for clearing the bounty

The being high, not mod messages being anonymous

I dunno if I should put in my 2¢ but I think the point being made is: "It is water under the bridge, apologies have been made, wounds have healed. So it is preferred that NO bounties (or other bumps) be placed there. Thanks for respecting this request."

It was Monica Cellio♦, but I recall she was only but one person on the list.

@forest there is no list

Actually

let me confirm

@Rob That would be a very good mod message and would have cleared it up.

✔️

Although I'm certain that this was a team decision and that Monica was just carrying out the team's consensus.

@forest there's no list

This is actually seriously spooking me.

Honestly, you're probably going to melt your brain at this point dealing with this

Go get some rest

🤯

This isn't like official or anything. I'd only kick you if I felt you needed medical attention (which has happened... funny story that...) but seriously, get some rest.

"i told u guys i was hardcore" and etc

It involved someone throwing up blueberry flavoured blood

@Tinkeringbell Basically, I was given a message that my bounty was manually removed, but I do not want it removed, and I was looking for clarification to see if I had broken the rules creating it.

The rest of the scroll log is pretty much unnecessary redundancy and circles.

I mean, it was entirely self explainatory....

You keep saying that, but it got us nowhere.

Maybe we need to repeat that...

The explanation it gave me was that I used the wrong bounty reason. It said nothing and implied nothing about rewarding existing answers or bountying to improve existing answers.

@JourneymanGeek Ha, that reminds me of a situation I read about a while ago. There was fairly young American boy participating in a chat room, where a 20-year-old Finnish woman was saying, "I'm having trouble breathing". After some further conversation, the boy got very concerned and called the local emergency number, and eventually contacts were exchanged and the Finnish authorities arrived at the woman's house and found her in critical condition, and she was saved

Oh wow

@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog was food poisoning and milkshakes.

Feedback for both of you:

@JourneymanGeek If someone's complaining that they're having trouble understanding something a certain way, rather than repeating the same thing again and again, a pointer that would help them understand it the correct way would be a lot nicer.

@forest It's a useless bounty on a question about an extremely specific situation that was already resolved (see the update in the last sentence of the question). And I don't know why I have to say that because others already have.

Now go sleep of that high.

sigh

Well I clearly misunderstood the purposes of bounties. I didn't know it was only for non-specific and unresolved situations. Perhaps someone should edit the bounty explanation page?

@forest A few circles in, you were given more and more explicit instruction not to put up another bounty on that question, and IMO you should have taken that and put a stop to the overall circles (not stating who's responsible for them, but just that you should stop them).

@forest Bu this specific problem has already been resolved. If you want to bring attention to problems within the company, do so on an unresolved question.

Understood.

If you read the bottom of the question, you would have seen that Shog apologized.

Can we please agree to stop talking about this topic for a little while?

sure

Great. Looks like it's finally time for breakfast. BBL!

yay, the first meal of the day. Unless you're a hobbit, in which case...

Ugh, re-reading the mod message shows me "Now that the issue you were discussing in chat (presumably why you started this bounty) has been cleared up". I guess I'll have to bring that up later. :/

ttyl

Yeah. I'd advise you not to ruin my breakfast

checks the list of things not to mention... tomatos.... l...

@JourneymanGeek I would make a lousy Hobbit. I'm not that much of an eater in the morning

@JourneymanGeek Yeah, you've ruined it. Thanks a lot :|

@Tinkeringbell the joke being hobbits have several breakfasts...

:/

@JourneymanGeek I'm having a banana and orange juice :P

Halfway on the banana and I'm already wondering how I'm going to finish it :/

pfft

Probably a cavendish ;p

Big and not very tasty

As long as they aren't completely yellow they're okayish ;) I somehow thing the other breed would be too sweet for breakfast :P

by which you mean bits of black or slightly green?

that said, we have red bananas

Bits of green

Bits of black are gross

ah curious

@JourneymanGeek That sounds confusing

naw, when it has black spots its ripe

bananas go from green to yellow to black

unless its a red banana

I know. I like mine a bit unripe :) they're less sweet.

then there's platains...

which are big, eaten green and not sweet at all

Hmm. No, just a regular unripe banana for breakfast :)

Hm, can someone clarify what inappropriate content constitutes? I was just suspended for explaining this drama to someone else in another room. I made sure that I did not post anything offensive or any curses. Am I permitted to discuss the event with other people?

@forest go take a rest