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12:00 PM
@rene so, two times 'kleineletter' then 'HOOFDLETTER' (I know, it's a cryptic hint, to confuse robots, like Captcha :P). And then 'niet-alfanumeriekteken'
dutch noises
angry fish
@Magisch If you haven't figured out what those words mean even with my previous message...
I mean, German is supposed to be similar.
@Tinkeringbell ah, yes, sure. That makes sense. Totally ;)
I mean... it's even pretty easy to remember as a password. I'm going to keep this one in mind.
12:28 PM
@Tinkeringbell if it is easy to remember so it is for hackers. At least that is what that Postbus 51 ad is about ...
@rene Meh, hackers.
Postbus 51 is only there to scare people in being obedient citizens ;)
Change of topic though: meta.stackexchange.com/q/328317/369802 < Does anyone actually know how account merges work want to chime in?
@Tinkeringbell it is based on magic / pure luck
@rene I was afraid it would be :P
I found meta.stackexchange.com/q/231414/369802 but that doesn't have an answer
it is still unclear what they exactly have/ want.
@rene Right now, I'm guessing they have two profiles, and they want them merged. But they're wondering if they have to ask for a merge for every community they are a member of, or if the merge will just merge their profiles (and every underlying community)
12:38 PM
There is only ONE networkacount that can have 1 to n useraccounts. I think a merge happens on networkaccount level, taking all useraccounts linked to those networkaccounts with it to a single networkaccount. In all merges the highest id will be the one that remains. But that is all I guessed about how account merges actually work.
If you can get hold of Animuson I suggest you try that.
@rene meta.stackexchange.com/questions/328317/….... guess they solved it themselves
A happy customer!
awaits new meta post with complaint about unclear merge instructions ...
@rene Yay! :D
@rene Why? They seem happy enough ;) I don't think they'll start complaining. Though perhaps there's something to be said about getting a bit of terminology straight and more clearly describing what a merge does ;)
merge that feedback
into the feedback about the reprex
12:53 PM
Is SO still upset over that?
I mean, -259 is a pretty clear signal
+57 / -316 as of now
Fun fact, if MSO had rep, Shog would have only lost 62 rep from that post
Ouch... I guess the Question Wizard won't be asking for MCVE's or reprexes then, for a while...
The change has already been made
The thing is already called stackoverflow.com/help/reprex now
@Magisch meta.stackoverflow.com/a/381695/6380541 isn't yet marked completed though
That part hasn't been implemented yet afaik, but MCVE was already renamed to reprex in relevant areas, including redirecting the old help page to the new one, and some changes to the help page including: *The use of “reprex” for Reproducible Example was inspired by Jenny Bryan’s reprex package for R.

You may have been told to include an MCVE – Minimal, Complete, and Verifiable examples is what they were referring to. MCVE was also the former name of the page you're reading now before it was renamed to Minimal, Reproducible Example (or “reprex”).*
1:02 PM
The post wasn't "We're considering doing this, what do you think" and more of "We've done this, here's why"
So. Before I go digging a hole to the center of the meta post, did anyone come up with a better word?
Or is everything underneath the question just 'I don't like this, want my old stuff back'?
better how
plenty of people made alternative suggestions
@Magisch What do you think is the best one, out of all those?
abandoning the idea of a catchphrase to explain a complex concept alltogether
and giving the article a longer title
1:07 PM
Sounds sensible, I think. Unless the question wizard comes with character limits :P
1:18 PM
Umm... what does "Complete" represent in "Min-Reprex"? The dash? :/
reproducible example "reprex" kind of implies complete
i.E in order to be fully reproducible it needs to be complete and verifiable
TeX - LaTeX uses MWE, "minimal working example"
Q: I've just been asked to write a minimal example, what is that?

Juan A. NavarroI was posting some question about this strange thing LaTeX is doing when I try to compile my thesis. Someone asked me to provide a minimal example that reproduces the problem. My thesis is now a few hundred pages long and spans along ten different source files! How am I supposed to know what or w...

1:42 PM
Not bad
the abbreviation itself isn't more clear, but the unabbreviated version is just fine.
2:16 PM
working vs. reproducible... hmm. The first seems 'simpler' English, but the second carries more of a thing for 'it only has to do for us what it does for you, even if that means it's not working'.
code review vs. debugging... hmm.
Debugging review
2:48 PM
Sort of bummed this is amassing close votes: meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/385023/…
Even if it does have a ranty rage-quit flavor
where do you even have that discussion?
The correct way to declaring a review strike is... to just stop reviewing :/
Or Twitter.
well, I think the entire point was to invite some like-minded people to discuss their frustration... rather than silently giving up
and twitter
well, that's certainly more likely to be effective, generally
but not for this
twitter is only useful for non-users to push their agenda
actual users are screwed
Try Medium then... (referring to Monica's Dear Stack Overflow, we need to talk. post)
@canon sums it up
The frustration is understandable, but the act of protest will not have meaningful consequences. You aren’t donating your time reviewing to the team that runs Stack Overflow. You’re donating it to the community of people who use Stack Overflow, to ask and answer questions. The people who started using it and want to keep using it because it avoids their having to waste time slogging through piles of crap. Refusing to review will just mean more crap for you, and I, and everyone else. It won’t make the review queues get fixed. Fewer reviewers means either more work for fewer, or more crap. — Cody Gray ♦ yesterday
It's not looking for discussion, it's making a regrettably bitter and frustrated announcement.
It could have went with a different tone, or at least pretended to be asking a question and inviting discussion. While I was looking for more heat than conveyed, there is no sign of willingness to discuss it
And conversations on meta usually do center around the OPs, so it's not like everyone else can just ignore Ivan and keep discussing things.
@canon you start those discussions with a massive stack of goodwill built up
You talk about how things are broken, and where they can be fixed
3:02 PM
Yeah, you can't meta when you start with just an "I'm done".
Mmmaybe "I'm done. But I think it can be fixed like this and that. I wish I'd seen them implemented."
@Margarine Or even 'Do we have to go on strike again?' :P
@Margarine the OP's response to that specific comment was pretty good.
@NoDistractionWizard monica's post literally worked cause it was Monica
I see some comments claiming 'it worked before'
Its someone who folks have a ton of respect for
3:05 PM
@JourneymanGeek tru .dat
(for that matter, that's a sneakier short term goal for me being in meta ;) )
@JourneymanGeek 3600 reviews warrants a decent chunk of good will from me.
I know their are people with a lot more than that. Still...
@canon it excuses the strike, but not the post.
@canon its not about the metrics
Unfortunately, you don't really get much from reviews other than the satisfaction of a job well done, if you do it right
It's never about the metrics... until you're drowning in the reality of those numbers.
3:07 PM
(which is a uniquely SO problem but shhhh)
@canon oh, when it comes to good will and influence
not discounting reviewers hard work in any way
@Margarine Well, this is the same argument used for jobs that overwork you.
Say, the team starts implementing something tomorrow. How likely are people to go "sorry, but I'm done anyway." or "this is still far from good for me" instead?
@fbueckert ._.
"If I don't do it, then it makes more work for others."
@Margarine or they become angry because it breaks their workflow .-.
3:09 PM
@fbueckert I think the garbage arguement is true here
sometimes you pick up after yourself because you want a nicer environment
sometimes you do it for others.
At some point it does get silly and you drown in it
@JourneymanGeek It's still the same argument, though.
@NoDistractionWizard see, it doesn't give anyone anywhere to start from, hence why I'm explaining I agree with closing that meta thread.
It's compensation for what is generally a failure somewhere down the line.
@JourneymanGeek "but I'm the only one doing it..."
Generally, in management.
3:10 PM
@NoDistractionWizard then we have bigger problems
@fbueckert I would call littering a failure in upbringing ;) But even if no-one litters, someone still has to empty the garbage bins.
@Tinkeringbell Yeah. Paid park workers.
@fbueckert in another way of looking at it he's saying he'll take his toys and go home
in the hope that others might
so that someone will spruce up the play ground
@JourneymanGeek I don't discount the ranty-esque nature.
You're not going to get rid of garbage. (Although I have seen interesting experiments where people managed to only produce a napkin and something else as garbage for the whole week)
3:12 PM
@fbueckert well which was the primary thing I was looking at
@fbueckert Or misbehaving youths doing community service :P
@Tinkeringbell in the old days my folks could manage better. Though we'd end up with lots of cow dung.
I'm just saying that countering it with, "Well, someone has to do it, and we don't want the crap, so you're just shoving it onto others" is essentially making people feel guilty for having a problem with how it works.
@fbueckert Yep. It's not exactly the most inspiring way of rallying people together.
@Tinkeringbell Usually best use of community service.
3:13 PM
@fbueckert I'm vaguely doubtful that will have an effect on anyone properly disgruntled
So... yeah, the correct way is to prevent the garbage from the beginning...
The concern is valid. And, to be honest, it's an effect of feeling ignored.
@NoDistractionWizard ah, but that's the nearly impossible part
So, this user goes on strike. And there's a whole bunch of others saying 'well, I'll go on strike with you'... YAY! now that user doesn't feel ignored anymore.

Perhaps a good answer to that question would rally people to not go on strike. To all use the queues for 10 minutes a day, or whatever... just so that the people in that queue don't feel as alone!
@NoDistractionWizard Sometimes I'm so hungry I want to eat a Kit Kat and its packaging.
3:17 PM
@Margarine hehe...
We have SOCVR already, they are certainly not alone...
My work canteen has chunky ones.
@fbueckert Sure, never said otherwise. The presentation is not ideal though, and that's why I said I agree with closure
and wierdly they're turkish.
@NoDistractionWizard Though reading that question and it's comments... there's always room for more. And there's people deliberately not using the queues already
3:17 PM
And oddly better than the usual sort, that's made... I think someone in SEA?
@Tinkeringbell The problem is that review is horrible
@JourneymanGeek BTW I'm ethnically Turkish, not Persian
@Tinkeringbell I don't really do queues that much personally
@Tinkeringbell That can also help a bit. Neither view is wrong.
Not protest though, I just find other things more interesting
3:18 PM
Low-quality questions end up in H&I when they should be closed, and code-only answers are frequently incorrectly handled by reviewers. I've lost track of time I've @mentioned a user who edited a NAA from VLQ
well I am fat...
@Margarine Strikes, at their heart, are not ideal. They are a response to a breakdown in communication.
@NoDistractionWizard the fact that there's a need for a vigilante street gang (#respek) to coordinate closure sort of highlights a systemic dysfunction.
@JourneymanGeek what, I actually pictured you as a tall, skinny Harry Potter.
@fbueckert No implemented FR's is pretty close to that
3:19 PM
@Margarine probably closer to hagrid
with les glorious hair
or a small dog
@canon Though not infamous compared to the Math.SE one
@fbueckert I'm even OK with going on strike though. But not giving anyone anything to follow through is not OK, because if they DO act many won't be satisfied anyway.
@Olivia I do guess that is a problem, but that's happening in all queues I've seen. There's always people that either don't get the rules, or won't follow them. :/ And I'm not claiming that reviewing isn't one of those things that can and probably should get attention... as it has a steep learning curve.
@Tinkeringbell still though
There's no guides on it either. You're placed into a queue and expected to review posts without having any idea what to do. And that backfires a lot
@JourneymanGeek whoa whoa whoa OK, the mental image is going to take some time to fix.
3:20 PM
@Margarine Not sure what you mean by not giving anyone anything to follow through on.
@Margarine its not an effective way of doing things
It's a review strike.
Don't review.
People never respond well to threats (or insults for that matter)
@Olivia So... you get a practice queue at rep level X, and if you reach rep level Y and have shown understanding of the powers you've been given, your vote starts to actually count :P
@JourneymanGeek No, but both sides have to be reasonable.
3:22 PM
@Tinkeringbell 45 years later, SE finally implements that FR
Pretty much I don't use review on SO... but I still downvote & close when passing the posts
@fbueckert Ending a sentence with two prepositions . . . almost there. Anyway, what I meant is, how is the team supposed to fix the situation? What compromise can the community come up with in the meanwhile? etc.
@fbueckert It's only going to make things worse. People don't review? Okay. Then eventually your lawn will end up full of garbage too.
i haven't messed with review queues in a long time, i keep them hidden even.
@fbueckert more precisely - people are going to care more about people they know
3:22 PM
I understand the frustration but I'm sorely disappointed in the execution of that plan.
but i do routinely close questions
@Olivia :P
you don't need a queue for that
In a sense - part of the trick to getting people to listen is trying to make that connection, then using it to bridge folks
@Tinkeringbell But...we're all volunteers here; yeah, we want to have a stake in this, but we're trying to clean up junk with one of those sticks and a bag.
3:23 PM
Wow there's so many opinions in this debate we should make a Batman movie.
And nobody's giving anyone a shovel or a garbage compactor.
Batman, the Freshmaker.
(wrong ads)
@fbueckert so...
@Tinkeringbell that's not even a joke, that's the worst part. There's several feature requests that would significantly improve reviewing and site moderation
how do we make a better shovel?
3:23 PM
@Tinkeringbell No, then Walmart ends up full of garbage. And then Walmart has to make some decisions about whether all that garbage is preventing people from shopping there.
or I presume, how do we convince TPTB we need a better shovel?
@JourneymanGeek by creating 1000 bad ones?
@Olivia It may not be a joke but it's hyperbole
@JourneymanGeek So the lawn's already filling up with junk, and we can't work fast enough to make a dent.
@NoDistractionWizard ._.
(ok, how bad are the SO review queues?)
So it's all crap, so stopping reviewing doesn't do anything except let the garbage build a little faster.
@canon Well, as long as <other random supermarket brand> is only selling garbage, I'm willing to bet people are still going to shop at Walmart for whatever gems they can find between the garbage. And complain about the smell while doing so.
oh k...
that is in fact pretty bad
3:26 PM
isn't that only the ones with more than n close votes?
yeah, the sad story is that it's already filtered...
@Tinkeringbell Depends on whether Walmart's suppliers are willing to deal with all that garbage too. Could be that they end up with fewer and fewer gems.
@JourneymanGeek Would you like the short or the long version?
@canon Well, even a supplier has to make money and drop their products somewhere :/ But you're right.
@Olivia I think @NoDistractionWizard gave me the short version
3:27 PM
Q: Let's burn down the close queue!

Shog9 Stage 2 completed: The initial phase of the burndown was completed on 2014-03-03 10:48:49; the second phase completed on 2014-03-08 at 19:41. Detailed statistics on how these played out can be found on Phase 1 results and Phase 2 results. There remains much work to be done! You can find r...

Short version: Very.
@Olivia I'm... not sure if that's going to be a good one. You also want people to stop looking at crap for a few minutes a day ;)
@Olivia so...
what's happened between then and now?
Somewhere around 100K, @Martin. — Shog9 ♦ Mar 8 '14 at 19:44
A: Let's burn down the close queue!

VicNever thought that I'll ever see it

Literally 2 hours later:
@m0sa Nope, back to fire again i.stack.imgur.com/6X5GD.jpgPraveen Mar 3 '14 at 12:12
3:29 PM
Let's roomba the close queue!
So...lawn already full of garbage. Check. Volunteers shovelling and burning as fast as they can. Check. Garbage continues to grow. Check.
@fbueckert We need to move to another state.
We need more automation to reduce the fatigue
Wait, you lost me. Why are we linking to ancient carvings on stone?
New lawn, fresh green gras, and a border immigration wall.
3:30 PM
@Tinkeringbell I'd settle for most of that, and caltrops for the border.
@NoDistractionWizard What do you think could be automated?
@Tinkeringbell Whoa, "NEW Stack Overflow" !?
Stack Overflow's Overflow
@JourneymanGeek What happened isn't the question - the question is what didn't. The site has grown out of control, while 92% (!!) of the users only have one reputation. That's 92% that ask and answer, but without reviewing
3:31 PM
If it's showing the good will of reviewers, I don't think anyone ever doubted that?
@NoDistractionWizard I propose a 'invite only' system :P
Most of them anyway
@NoDistractionWizard That sounds like Nintendo™ branding.
those stats don't omit users that are inactive
@Olivia What percent of that do one action on the site and disappear?
3:32 PM
97% of users can't access any review queues at all.
"ask and answer, but without reviewing" implies they keep doing it.
@Margarine I have no clue
Well I'm saying stop depressing yourself with stats.
Ask questions, get answers, DO REVIEWS, no distraction.
I'd say reviews could be mandated before you could post your question or answer, but that just guarantees crap reviews.
3:36 PM
Or rather, depress yourself with the right stats
@Margarine Nearly the entire site relies on gamification; stats are central to the experience. Sadly...
99.45% of users don't have access to the close vote queues. That leaves 0.65% of the users (again not counting passive ones and inactive accounts). There's far too few users who can close vote compared to the volume of users. IIRC there's something along the lines of a few hundred questions per hour (and a few thousand comments per hour), and only 50 close votes, and up to 100 post flags and 100 comment flags.
My basic point was that there is a problem, and discounting it by trying to make strikers feel guilty about those that don't is just blaming the wrong people.
if you flagged all the NLN comments posted in an hour, you'd be out of flags in a few minutes
So... in the hype of wizardry, Do Review Wizard is the next project to proceed...
3:37 PM
@canon There are two ways to interpret stats: Wrongly, and incompletely.
@Margarine "MOAR BADGES!"
At the same time, there's a ton of feature requests that could help fixing stuff. Regenerative close votes for one. Expanding on that, regenerative flags. Let reviewers who want to review review more than relying on 0.65% (excluding inactive accounts and people who don't review) of users to handle reviews for the vast majority.
"(again not counting passive ones and inactive accounts)" that is a huge omission though.
Is it possible to instead look at what percentage of close votes age away?
@KevinB I think so
Anyway, 250 rep can close their own question (not that it's usually used though...)
3:40 PM
eh, it's used more than you might think
oh, closure
i meant deletion
But not enough to have a noticeable impact on the 8000-10000 questions in the CV queue
why close their own question when they can delete it
Maybe not, but what i'm curous of is how many questions would have been closed in the past 90 days if, say, it only required 3 closevotes. How fewer close votes would age away?
@KevinB I was also thinking about reducing to 3
basically... you can use the stats to determine where the problem actually is... are not enough votes being cast? are they being cast on questions that shouldn't be closed?
Personally i come across questions every day that people answer saying "Your question is unclear, but try this" rather than closing as unclear
@KevinB Lots of this is going to be based on aging votes, and closable questions just not being presented.
Even with the queue pushing those questions with the most close votes to the front.
3:44 PM
@KevinB /cc @rene, AKA the SEDE Master
it's frustrating to see users just outright avoiding close votes entirely, but i do understand why... i just disagree with it.
@KevinB Anything that contributes to the us vs. them mentality and polarization among users is only going to make that worse
@KevinB Good Samaritans trying to help the OP at the expense of the communal knowledge-base...
How can you solve the problem without looking at it?
3:46 PM
SO needs a flowchart to asking and answering
@Feeds maybe we need more linear A/B testing on SO...
@KevinB "Did you try turning it off and back on again?"
You can't just ignore half the equation because it's uncomfortable to talk about
But that's a more complicated problem IMO, and I can only do critical, not correct
@canon This is one of those expectation vs. gamification aspects that SE needs to solve.
It's weighted towards answering, and actively disincentivizes curation.
3:48 PM
@fbueckert it's not always motivated by the gamification. Sometimes it's just empathy for the struggle of the individual OP.
Get 1 rep for each review! Get review ban for 3 wrong reviews!
@fbueckert that's very true.
The problem with gamifying review is incorrect reviews and the "go with the flow" reviews.
@canon Not always, but it still doesn't reward taking the long view.
the problem is, it feels good to help people. that's a good problem to have, as there's an incentive to be helpful to people in general before rep is even involved... and closing goes directly against that. Closing doesn't immediately help people. It doesn't give you that same "win" feeling. it just... pushes people away. how do you correct that
3:48 PM
As in seeing (or not seeing) reviews, and going with an action from there just to get rep.
@fbueckert and it never will.
@NoDistractionWizard Get a T-shirt for 10 audits passed in a row
@KevinB there's no way to win.
And that's a Hard problem to solve, in any way that isn't manual.
It's sort of managed up to this point on SE goodwill.
Problem is, that goodwill is in miiiiiighty short supply nowadays.
@Margarine OK. Now I'm really thinking of "'Stack Overflow' the Video Game"...
3:50 PM
@Olivia That's what physicists said when they were skeptical of quantum science.
@NoDistractionWizard Uh, that's what it is; there's no Stack Overflow: The Novel.
@canon Not many things are pixelated
@Margarine if you have closing, you have reviews
If you have gamified reviews, you have cheaters. If you don't, you don't have as many
While there's closing, you'll also piss off users. If you remove closing, there's no way to keep the site on-topic any more.
What about interstitial ads review...
Right now, the system is horrible, because it pushes users away when their question is closed, and it pushes users away from review
The way to "win" isn't actually a win, but it's to make review decent. It'll still push away some users who get their questions closed, but it'll at least be manageable
3:54 PM
well, there is a way, it's just been shot down every time it was brought up
I've lost hope the system will be patched tbh.
Closed as unclear/dupe/needs mvce/typo -> Beginner needs help section
As has been evident by your last 50 messages ;)
@KevinB How would that help?
The people who just want to help the user still can
3:56 PM
There's almost 4000 open, unhandled feature requests on MSO alone
It'd just push all the junk somewhere else.
and the post still gets deleted after n days
I have a deja vu of this deja vu...
I've already had a couple of debates in other chats, and it seems I'm ruining oust off Engliush . . . sumbodie halp
@KevinB Unless that's something like only a day or so, it'd just keep getting bigger and bigger.
3:57 PM
There's 13.7k on MSE
that's fine
it's a trashcan afterall
We might as well just tell users that their question is bad, and we're deleting it.
If we do that, they don't get help
SO isn't a help desk though
they don't learn, they don't improve.
3:58 PM
Or a forum
The likelihood of help is vanishingly small regardless.
It might not be meant to be a help desk, but that's precisely what it is
That's certainly a recent feature request discussion? Would a “graveyard” for bad questions make sense?
It's just a more silent way of deleting it without actually telling the user we're doing it.
@Olivia You should post an answer on that strike post and say which feature requests you believe would be the most impactful considering implementation time (WTF spellchecker 'impactful' is a word) and then there's chance of a useful discussion.
3:59 PM
The problem is that there isn't one feature request.
@NoDistractionWizard feature discussion request, and I upvoted that
There's so many different review queues that one doesn't cover all
Maybe if we stopped vacillating between trying to be a help desk and a repository of knowledge, we could actually just settle down and work towards the single goal.
@KevinB Related
@Olivia None of that changes what's impactful and what's not
4:00 PM
And those that don't agree can just finally leave.
All "helpdesk" solutions i've seen all have the same thing SO has: A place to ask questions, people to answer them, and a knowledge base of answered questions that someone has deemed useful enough to be in the knowledge base
@fbueckert the goal has been outlined in at least two posts on MSO
No matter how many times it's mentioned, it doesn't change the fact that it's not possible to get everyone to learn what the goal of SO actually is, and what it is beyond a place to get help
BTW, don't you see how the discussion here was much better than whatever the meta.SO post aspired to be? That was the point I was getting at since the beginning
@Olivia Care to link? Pretty sure I've read them, and it's still not clear enough to actually stop the arguments.
one sec
4:02 PM
@Margarine Conclusion: Let's have Town Hall on Chat.SO
@Margarine That's partly because the SE framework doesn't really support this kind of discussion. So, we have to take it "offline" to a secondary medium like chat... where it can be tidily ignored by the powers that be -even moreso than meta!
it doesn't work in comments/questions/answers, but it works great in chat
@NoDistractionWizard Where? SOCVR? Rene would go mad
@canon Which has been known for years. And we're still stuck with it.
Q: What is SE's (the company) mission statement for their websites, and in particular SO?

kabanusI was recently told by a user that management and the contributing core differ in goals for SO. I already believed this to some extent, but it is all just gut feeling. I have been around for a couple years, and I think my understanding of core user base's goal is correct: Create a repository ...

Q: What's the precise and exact mission statement of Stack Overflow?

MakotoAs a follow-up to an earlier question of mine, there was some ambiguity in reference to what the actual mission of Stack Overflow is. I'm not looking to debate the matter nor am I looking to nitpick. I just want a clear and unambiguous definition to what it is. If we know and understand what i...

Q: What is Stack Overflow’s goal?

teynonAfter reading this, it reminded me a bit of this (Group 4 here) as well. Reflecting on the second question in the post on sympathetic up-votes brought about this question. Perhaps my Google skills are failing me (again) and it is obviously posted somewhere... but I can't seem to find it. What is ...

4:03 PM
@Olivia Yep. Read them both. You can see my participation in it.
@Margarine Point taken. I'll write an answer
@canon People aim their comments to be more articulate and more likely to hit the target than the average chat message. Doesn't mean the post could/should have been much more
I was just trying to find Shog's MSO answer about answering instead of closing, now where is it...
And announcement posts, FWIW, already look more expansive than chat discussions, and more organized too
Personally, I don't think it'll alleviate tensions; SE's undergone a shift in recent years towards a more user-focused experience, over the previous quality-focused one most users still adhere to. It can be seen in Nick's dismissal, and the total lack of progress of feature improvements to the core curation process. Making that disconnect plain, however, will cause many on the fence to nope out of continuing any curation, which is detrimental to further efforts. — fbueckert Dec 4 '18 at 21:45
4:05 PM
@Margarine Every single one of my comments (and chat messages) is engineered to deliver a fatal payload. ;)
Cannonical canonical canon comments
Okay, I'll stop here. Being an introvert is really tiring after speaking so much...
I don't consider myself an introvert, much less my English self, but yeah, some emotional knockout punch after all the debating I did today
It was enjoyable, like pulling the whole night, but not the fatigue that comes afterwards, and it's kicking in
4:32 PM
<-- aggressively introverted
@NoDistractionWizard It's not filtered; but its size is kept down by aggressively aging close tasks out of the review.
@VoteDukakis i.e.: aggressively discarding community moderation work.
I don't like "must review lest we drown in garbage" rhetoric, btw. It looks to me like "must cover self with antibacterial soap all the time lest I get covered by bacteria".
The presence of worthless material on the site is natural and unavoidable.
We should give it less attention than it gets now, not more.
And since Google is the homepage of Stack Overflow, the "garbage" posted on Quora, Yahoo Answers, etc is still there alongside with SO content. Can't get rid of that one for sure.
5:02 PM
Not oneboxing this again... chat.meta.stackexchange.com/…
"Off-topic" is misleading at the beginning, though. I'd say "closable" questions, including duplicates.
Also, the current approach to duplicates promotes the fossilization of SO content. Maybe let them be, and let Google choose what today's programmers are after. They have ways to tell that ElasticSearch either doesn't or doesn't use well.
@KevinB nope, that is not in SEDE. /cc @Olivia at best you can look at pendingflags but that has no history.
5:34 PM
Mary Ferguson on May 17, 2019

Terminating the unauthorized access to the system

Conducting an extensive and detailed audit of all logs and databases that we maintain, allowing us to trace the steps and actions that were taken

Remediating the original issues that allowed the unauthorized access and escalation, as well as any other potential vectors that we have found during the investigation

Issuing a public statement proactively

Engaging a third party forensics and incident response firm to assist us with both remediation and learnings …

@Feeds This reads more like a narration than an announcement...
Also, apparently onebox knows which part is the most interesting...
I forgot (or never knew) the chain of command regarding security...
Yeah this is something that we talked about and may change in the future. As a practical matter, we wanted to start with this person reporting to me (CTO) because (a) the bulk of the work will be in engineering, (b) they'll have more clout with engineers as part of engineering, and (c) I'm the executive best positioned to give them "air cover" and make sure that other departments pay attention. However, I get the argument for having them report directly to the CEO and we might make that change down the line once the position is a little more established. — David Fullerton ♦ Feb 20 '18 at 0:09
If it's CTO - DIS, then why is VP of Engineering posting on the blog? Guess it's been changed to CTO - VPeng - DIS.
Some Information Security folks thought DIS should report to CEO directly, but they may have been a little biased...
> The intrusion originated on May 5 [...]
On the same day...
Q: Oops! Something Bad Happened (SO questions outage)

connectyourchargerStack Exchange Bug (in progress RESOLVED - see bottom of post) It seems that whenever I try and access a question, I get an error message. Any updates from the community team on this? Every now and then, a page works, but most times, it just hangs and comes up with the error message. Here's a...

5:52 PM
@NoDistractionWizard it is strange indeed that it starts at the first <ul> tag it encounters. Maybe it tried looking for <p> enclosed text but instead two <br> tags are used to separate paragraphs. That's the wordpress way of the semantic web I guess.

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