« first day (3074 days earlier)      last day (1973 days later) » 
00:00 - 13:0013:00 - 00:00

1:00 PM
Throwing humidity and wasting water on @Sha
@Tinkeringbell same tbh. It gets really humid here, up to 90% RH on messy summer days. It's hell when that happens. I find very dry heat of 35C or above tolerable while humid heat of 30C is pretty nasty
@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ lol :D
@Magisch Mhm the kind that leaves you with no option but to lie down in a bed and then it only feels worse
@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ employ two very strong fans and still feel gross and sweaty
Fans are so 19xx... air conditioner is the thing these days!
1:06 PM
Iran is famous in Iran for being a "multi-seasonal" country
North is usually like a tropical forest
Humid, annoying.
We get the almost cold climate part. Like the end of autumn
I haven't been to the south which is a humid Sahara but the north has given me enough opportunities to hate too much humidity
Darn water vapor is like tiny heat packets, smashing in your face every second
That's more scientific than my average babble
Israel the same, north and south have different weather.
Have been wondering... anyone willing to answer some quick questions about internet connection where they live?
@ShadowWizard Do you know how expensive a full apartment air conditioner is to a) install b) run c) maintain?
1:10 PM
@Derpy I'd answer everything with "crap"
@Derpy ask away
@Derpy umm, they block porn and reddit?
I wish they only blocked porn and Reddit
initiate filter out procedure
@Magisch a) $1000 for good product b) around $30 per month for electricity consumption c) not so much
1:12 PM
filtering complete
By run I meant the electricity consumption and maintain I meant the maintenance work of keeping it functional
Now I can focus on @Shadow
There are maybe 1-2 months in a regular year where I would consider an AC to be helpful
Here it's the other way around, lol
Still, when not used it doesn't cost any money.
@ShadowWizard just wondering... I have though for a while to upgrade from a very lame 10mb connection to what they (illegally) call "optical fiber connection - which is actually a vsdl2 connection
problem is - it seems that where I live the only way to have a vsdl2 is to also have voip only telephone service....
1:15 PM
@Derpy we have exactly this here too. Shiny promises, but for little real gain.
I didn't fall for this, and those who did usually complain it's not nearly as fast as promised.
my point is that if my phone becomes voip only, this means I must keep the connection active 24/7
which is something I don't want at all
@Derpy or get rid of the phone and use a cellular device?
I don't use ordinary phone for.... years.
@ShadowWizard wish I could, but it is already hard enough to get my older relatives to use the regular phone....
There's a company advertising you can get 50 mb/s here, but the actual speed you'll get from them at my address is 4mb/s
@Magisch ouch
1:18 PM
And then they lock you into their contract at a higher rate for 4 years while promising to fix it, fully ignoring the fact that they use the same end lines as the other major telco here but can only book 50% of a normal connection for that
@Derpy regular phone can call cellular phone and vice versa, so they shouldn't care what you have. Unless... you mean you live with them?
@ShadowWizard bingo
anyway, they also have their other far share of problems.
example: it seems that they don't make the connection settings public, in order to try to force you to use the modem/router they provide
which is customized to block of access to some settings.
Makes some sense
1:21 PM
makes NO sense.
@Derpy Thats a really normal tactic
they'll probably "rent" the router out to you too for an extra 15/mo
If their modem/router cost you money and you can bypass them, they lose money.
@Magisch that has been declared illegal just recently.
Here you can use whatever you want but you'll get free support only when using theirs.
the "don't give out the configuration parameters" was their reply to force people to pay their technical service to configure stuff.
1:22 PM
@ShadowWizard ping! (the snooze function is not quite there in terms of accuracy)
Tethering to prepaid mobile data user here...
Borderline legalized thievery if you ask me.
@Derpy like most do anyway, all over the world.
@g3rv4 breaking alarm clock :D
also - their customized router have disabled settings....
just to give you a picture, they seem to have disabled the options to do mac filters...
oh, now it makes sense why the snooze function is broken
1:24 PM
and don't get me started on the more advanced stuff
Back to step 1: why you don't want 24/7 connection? @Derpy
@ShadowWizard attack surface
I know the country where I live. A place where people think they are cool because they steal their neighbor wi-fi connection
1:26 PM
So password protect it?
to be fair, I try to keep wi-fi disabled in the first place.
But VoIP doesn't require WiFi... so how is it relevant?
@Derpy talk to forest, I think (s?)he is interested in this kind of conversation
Can't you turn off WiFi and leave the connection open? Think my router has such option.
@andmyself she
and you mean @forest ;)
welp, color me surprised...
1:30 PM
(missed it)
@ShadowWizard the phones have to be connected to something, right? Since they don't give out the parameters for the voip configuration (to the point that somebody actually crafted a python script to calculate them, only for them to reply by attempting to add more obfuscation....) you have to connect regular non voip phones to the router they provide.
since the router does the connection work...
@ShadowWizard nothing important... moving on :)
a) all your phones need to be connected to the router... which I think has only one (maybe two) phone ports. Meaning they must be in the same place too.
b) since the router has to stay with the phone, while your pc probably will be somewhere else... good luck connecting that.
lurking g3rv4 is lurking
c) no internet == no phone. Right now, I have very frequent connection problems, and sometime can't even connect at all. If I am going to assume that such behavior would continue... it would mean that the phone would be isolated too, not just internet
1:37 PM
@Derpy sounds like you made up your mind to not "upgrade", which I also support. Slow doesn't mean broken, and like you said the connection quality of that new provider might also be as bad.
@ShadowWizard it is not "made up my mind", it is that either I have to go by their term (wi-fi, voip only and no control on connection security settings) or just live with what I have
So the later appears to be better.
Best of bad options....
I even considered 4g based alternatives, but it seems that mobile connection and flat prices aren't considered an option here
I used a satellite VoIP phone that cost like $5k once.
No clue why they cost so much, but they're awesome.
oh, hi @forest
1:51 PM
reads up
@Derpy - WPA2 is reasonably secure. Or you could just go the whole router with wireless turned off, and wireless on a seperate device.
It's secure if you use WPA2-CCMP (AES) and disable WPA2-TKIP (RC4).
Then all you need to do is use a very good passphrase and you're gold.
proper Optical fibre broadband is likely to have a ONT with multiple ports and the VOIP built into the ONT
(granted, I actually did split my router and AP up like that, but not for security reasons)
@Derpy could you give an example of a router they use?
Make and model
> example: it seems that they don't make the connection settings public, in order to try to force you to use the modem/router they provide
7470197 21:21:00
which is customized to block of access to some settings.
1:56 PM
yep, I know.
@Derpy sounds like the sort of crap my ISP used to pull ;)
like I said before...
> to the point that somebody actually crafted a python script to calculate them, only for them to reply by attempting to add more obfuscation....
I also use an ISP-provided modem, but they don't charge extra for that. The router is my own.
also most modem/router... erm... probably make me say things that would make me ban myself
@JohnDvorak that's an ideal.
they don't charge you for the modem router combo, since that was made Illegal recently.
they do try to force you into buying their tech support in order to do ANY configuration on the router
by trying to a) not giving you the configuration params, b) locking you out of some settings
1:59 PM
no other options?
@Derpy You know... something like that was done for one of the major 50gbit+ core router firmware updates last year or two...
sounds like a tech scam...
They "customize" the authentication by doing their own homebrew hash (I think it was a modification to MD5 to add round constants or something silly).
They called it something like "unbreakable authentication".
Naturally I found out about this as someone came to me asking if I knew anything about reverse engineering that firmware so they could pwn some gigantic ISP...
@Derpy that's literally the sort of thing that would make me not want to have a particular ISP 0_0
2:10 PM
@JourneymanGeek ok, I have checked. Seems the connection parameters are public, but the site also has a very odd line at the end of the page for the offer...
translates to something similar to:
that sounds like ISPs
Mine has a few features available no one knows how to configure - other than their customers.
> Attention: our connection services and voip services can be used only with our router.
That's just sad.
A lot of ISPs do that. If not to directly charge you for the router then to install certificates to insert ISP-side ads into https et al
@forest my ISP used to claim you only could connect one computer to a modem, and disallowed routers at one point.
2:12 PM
had to translate the line, but the way it is written it does seems like "we legally bind you to use our router "
@Tinker the script is ready and running on my side for now:
window.setInterval(function() {
    $.post("https://meta.stackexchange.com/question/unprotect", { "id": "321399", "fkey": $("#fkey").val() });
}, 1000*60*5);
@Derpy or "it could not work, and we won't support ti"
@ShadowWizard you got a script to unlock the post? ;p
A new budding business modal for ISPs is to monetize sites their subscribers view with pop over ads inserted into the sites directly. To do that they need to install their own root certificates to bypass https
2:13 PM
Just run it in the console and it will try to unprotect every 5 minutes
@ShadowWizard Looks good :)
That should save a bit of work ;)
If it's not protected, you'll just see 404 error in the console.
one ISP here caught giant flack for it
@Magisch I believe the response to that from me would refer to a certain Pressdam vs Arkell, and I'd look for a new ISP :)
@Magisch I know IPS firewalls can do that (TLS interception), but... for an ISP? How do they even get you to install the root certificates?
Like do they demand you install it or they'll cancel your subscription?
2:14 PM
@JourneymanGeek yup ;)
@forest The internet connection doesn't work unless you install their software, which includes tracking, on-computer ads in like the windows search bar and browser, sometimes browser toolbars, and root certs to match
@forest mine intercepts a few websites - though the https check thing will just fail when they redirect you
I think the router can also be used to do that
@Magisch ... that's so... 90s
That is truly horrifying.
2:15 PM
They also use the capability to display in browser warnings when you near your monthly data cap and to allow purchasing of extra data right then
I might trust a reputable IPS like OpnSense or PfSense. But a random ISP?
An ISP should never, ever touch your data.
@forest presumably they wouldn't allow that
or home brew monstrocities like mine
@forest Why touch when they can just sell to spammers? ;)
lmao good point
ISP business is becoming like cable, where every intermediary wants to insert their monetization
Like video games you buy for 60€ that have ingame ads that you can't turn off without paying more, or even that you can't turn off at all without incurring xp or loot penalties
2:18 PM
@Magisch microtransactions need to DIAF
eh, to a point
in free games and strictly cosmetic / qol I find to be ok
I don't even play video games. I had no idea that even existed...
cosmetics is fine
I mean I know what microtransactions are, but forcing you to watch ads or lose xp?
That's just evil.
street fighter V has a new system where you gain extra xp and loot if you turn on "ad mode" costumes for your fighters and arena back grounds with sponsored content
2:20 PM
Oh yeah, I remember reading about that
coincidentally they also generally reduced xp and currency earn so that with the new bonus maxed out you're at below what you were before
I remember reading an analyst article who complained that the games industry was dramatically under-monetizing their users and should aim for cable-tv style ad ratios for paid content (so 30%ad 70% game) on paid games and should be aiming to charge at per-hour rates comparable to cinema movies for playing games
[screams internally]
I remember when you could just buy a game cartridge and play it forever...
2:23 PM
this person sounds like a sociopath who likes long walks around beaches on d-day, kicking puppies and drowning kittens
something like "unfortunately there is a lot of money left on the table by under-monetizing on a per user and per hour basis, as well as because of a low adoption and presence rate of in-game advertisements, which could be leveraged to substantially increase yield"
not sure of the exact wording, but it was a stock analyst
Naturally. They're textbook capitalists.
the article was arguing it was immoral and a violation of fiduciary duty to the shareholders to leave money on the table like that
I'll see if I find it again when I get home
holy e2fsck
That's just wrong.
Once publicly traded, a company must above all, act in the interests of its shareholders.
2:25 PM
^ that is actually a legal principle
I know.
It disgusts me.
It is illegal for a company's leadership to not maximize profits in whatever way legally possible
@Magisch that said - would pissing off your customers be... erm...
the optimal stratergy?
@JourneymanGeek Yes, yes it would.
2:26 PM
Regulation, set by congress, is what's supposed to reign that in.
All you have to do is hire a good PR team.
arguably substitute goods for video games is hard
And then pissing off your customers can do wonders.
@JourneymanGeek Thats why not every company is literally skeletor
ok, just discovered that apparently they blocked the router option to change the DNS.
2:27 PM
@forest I think a EA tried that...
@JourneymanGeek And yet EA is still a multi-billion dollar company.
@Derpy can change it per device?
It's possible to argue that consumer goodwill translates directly to $ which is why you don't see people like joel spolsky escorted out in handcuffs
@Derpy I'm sure you can get around the restrictions.
@forest eh, true. Only cause they keep buying franchises and running them to the ground
2:28 PM
So decent people as CEOs can be decent people without being sued over it (mostly)
But the whole "leaving money on the table in video games" argument is total BS because there's already plenty of precedence to say "don't do that, you'll fail if you try to squeeze people even more." which means it's not law, but optimistic greed that drives any intent to do it.
@JourneymanGeek It works for them, even if it's immoral as hell.
I completly agree tim, but there are people that disagree
@forest I suppose it does
2:28 PM
and go so far as to say legally there should be more monetization
CEOs like that need a good lynching from time to time.
@forest not likely to happen
Unfortunately not.
for evidence what absolute greed does to a video game look at battlefront 2
At least, without the legal protection that you get by being a billionaire...
2:29 PM
@Magisch Yes, but the thing is, as long as there's contention there's plausibility which means there's no profits left 'deliberately on the table' in a way that's financially irresponsible by the company (in the legal sense). It remains a choice.
so greedy it got politicans talking about legislating against lootboxes
@JourneymanGeek yep, I know, but should give you the idea...
@Derpy that's pretty... uncouth
@Magisch lootboxen do kinda cross the line into gambling
@TimPost correct, which is why I found that article to be full of crap and probably a hit piece by some hedge fund to lobby a company's management
and most countries do want to make sure that as much of it is state controlled as possible is regulated
2:30 PM
@JourneymanGeek ?
the danger with gaming lootboxen and paying for additional random stuff is, the folks doing it may not realise.
@Derpy stopping you from changing DNS is a bit.. annoying
Any time someone says "hedge fund" I think of a personified bush farting coins.
Can't you do DNS hijacking to change it?
I use a non ISP DNS and the occational ssh tunnel to get around blocks
Using any other router or firewall.
2:32 PM
@TimPost The president or the plant?
blah, developers ;p
I'd like a coin farting bush
depending on the rate of expulsion it could mean I don't have to work anymore
@forest yep probably I could, but like I say it is not about how I can "avoid the obstacle" but more like "why they give me such obstacle on the first place"
They must not understand how an ISP should operate.
2:33 PM
tone pls
And they're forcing their poor developers to design such a terrible router.
@TimPost though, I suspect both Hedge funds and stock analysts paperclip optimise...
1 message moved to Trashcan
@forest heh. I've seen very few non terrible routers.
I find professional hedge funds and stock trading really interesting
2:34 PM
Same. I use an x86 board for a router (an ALIX board).
the lenghts of paperclip maximizing are awe inspiring and ingenious
@forest Don't forget the backdoors they're forced to install so the government can track everything... ;)
I use an older laptop-grade core i3....
but at the same time mostly immoral so that puts a damper on any aspirations I had in that area
They don't even need backdoors. They're full of front doors!
2:35 PM
I probably could have gotten a J1800.
think someone tried to make pf-sense work with said ISP. Should see if they got lucky.
@Derpy chances it it might work
at worst they lock it to the mac address of their router, and that's trivial to fake
but you need their router for the VOIP you need for the plan that ends up using their router, right?
In theory paperclip maximizing could be really good if it served the train of though of "Make something so good people will want to buy a lot => profit" exclusively
@Magisch here though, their paperclip maximising for stockholder value and money over...
the company being healthy and not utterly dysfunctional
What is it they use? ADSL? Cable? Fiber? Dial-up?
2:37 PM
@JourneymanGeek to use the voip, you have to use their router. Even with the parameter I wouldn't exclude that they do some form of "encryption" to check that the phone passes thru their router.
and with something like a game company or a studio... the feedback loop for a product can be a bit...
for instance if you go "make a Q/A site so good everyone will want to shower us in money to hire the best participants" and "so good everyone will pay out their behind to run modest ads on it"
@Magisch but its not that simple.
You basically need to balance a bunch of variables. And that's hard.
@JourneymanGeek That last claim is based on the fact that they give you "support for two phones connected to the router" but you may "pay #$ to have your line set up to use more phones"
@Derpy so they use a splitter? ;p
@Magisch on SE, you'd need to worry about quality, growth, multiple dimentions of PR...
Its a very twisty paperclip and made of multiple materials.
2:40 PM
What if anything stops you from just finding out the connection parameters and putting their router in a corner where it doesn't annoy & then use your own?
Probably nothing unless it's really customized.
@JourneymanGeek sure, but I was saying that if paperclip maximizing was limited to making money purely through best serving the consumer it would be great
And even then you could probably swap the NIC out.
unfortunately there are X not-so-ethical but more effective way to maximize any given paperclip
@Magisch but SE's kinda in one of those situations where that's impossible.
Public Q&A is both the "halo" product, and the one that both dosen't directly make money, and drives everything else. The everything else is variable ;p
so its hard to... work out what the paperclip is here
2:42 PM
Tweets maybe?
tweets are one of the multiple dimensions of PR
tweets don't directly make SE money or lose it. I mean, as a public listed firm maybe... but in the current scenario, its probably pretty localised to perception and goodwill
and least for now, there's certain groups of folk who will find SO indispensible no matter what.
If someone is suspended network-wide, does their name change?
@JourneymanGeek clearly the paperclip to maximize here is # of winterbash hats
@forest not automatically
I see someone called just "user" who is suspended, but their original name is showing through on community wiki posts that they created (but not their posts).
2:47 PM
and # of dogs moderating the sites (and parrots)
yeah, let's not draw too much attention to the username...
ah not to sure about that
I want to blame caching
The former shows "Something Bad Happened", and the latter shows "user", both links to the exact same ID number. Whatever it is is stupidly inconsistent.
So if it was a redaction or something, it was done wrong.
This might be a nasty bug in the system if someone needs their name redacted for security reasons in the future, and it's redacted on all but community wiki posts...
usernames on CW posts don't update
2:50 PM
Sounds like a design mistake.
I mean why change someone's name if it's still available in posts linked directly on their supposedly redacted/anonymized profile page?
I've not experimented with, uh, network-wide suspension, but you shouldn't be able to edit your profile while suspended
(mods can still do that I guess)
I wonder why. This guy didn't use an offensive name or something.
@forest eh, I suspect oversight.
It was just... changed to "user".
shrug These things happen?
2:52 PM
actually... it was his first name before he changed it to "user" again
lmao really?
So he went from "user" to "Something Bad Happened", then back to "user"?
"Firstname Lastname" → "Something Bad Happened" → "user" → "Firstname" → "user"
And then got suspended?
I had thought they got suspended and mods changed the name.
eh. We don't typically discuss suspensions
actually, he was also "user<SOID>" on SO
yep, that's why I'm redacting stuff :P
2:53 PM
I'm doubtful that changing your nick would lead to suspensions though
else I have a particular user who would be suspended a lot
@JourneymanGeek I was just interested to know about the name change, not why he got suspended in the first place (though I imagine it had something to do with freaking out about animal abuse or whatever it was, according to chat logs).
@forest ah
meh... unless you keep changing it to "M...F..." while mods constantly change it to something else, for example
that, I can tell you nothing cause... I have no idea what happened
2:55 PM
@EKons Hah
I just realized the auto-protection came late, like... after 30 minutes?
Oops, wrong, the feed came late...
@forest interesting. Looks like that whenever edit occurs, all editor names are updated to the name currently in use. So based on that, if the answer will be edited now, it will show "user".
@Glorfindel did it 2 minutes before my script would have kicked in. ;)
(it unprotects every 5 minutes)
I'm watching it from here though...
But since we already have The UserScript™, then this monitoring room is moot :)
3:09 PM
@JourneymanGeek last I saw, he changed the avatar to something offensive.
So maybe changing name to something offensive too was the last straw and led to both name reset and network suspension. (Didn't see it, but it makes sense and based on the other things, could have happened.)
anyway, just to know. How do you feel about the "need to keep the router always connected" thing @JourneymanGeek @forest?
1 hour later…
4:35 PM
Some thoughts here
Companies and organizations occasionally file DMCA complaints to get proprietary information off SE (particularly code and homework on SO), which is usually submitted by unauthorized personnel. But those posts are still visible to "unspecific users" (i.e. an arbitrary user with 10k, this is a huge number on SO), so doesn't this conflict?
@ɪBᴜɢ as far as I know, DMCA requests result in redacting the content, so nobody can see it, think not even mods. Possibly it's hard deleted from the database.
@ShadowWizard well, I recall a post was simply deleted by animuson for DMCA reasons.
Yes, so what is the problem?
@Tink you have my script running? I'm going in few minutes and can't leave it open.
@ShadowWizard not on the bogus DMCA on Anime.SE...
4:42 PM
(or anyone else with 15k or diamond?)
@rene Deleted posts are still visible to unspecific people (10k users), doesn't this conflict with DMCA?
@ɪBᴜɢ well, only if they happen to have the link.
no search engine will index it, and that's what matters most.
Anyone (even 1 rep users or just visitors without account) could archive such posts on their machine and so see them after deleted from the site.
Example MSO post (actual DMCA-complained post linked): meta.stackoverflow.com/q/376163/5958455
@ɪBᴜɢ No, why? Removing it from the database would conflict with SE's own terms of service. Beyond deletion it is a case for lawyers
The user deleted the account? Hmm.. 🤔
4:46 PM
@rene Does that mean as long as it's not publicly visible (search engines, unregistered/low-rep users) it's not a problem for us to worry?
All this legal matters is never something to worry about for us
I'm not a trained nor paid lawyer ...
Fine, thanks.
hmm, saw this comment which is rather aligned with Shadow's message above
OK, but it hasn't really been taken down. It's still visible to users with 10k+ rep. Surely a DMCA takedown notice requires that the content NOT be visible; rather than simply restricted to "advanced" users? — Dawood ibn Kareem Nov 5 '18 at 7:12
And... to make things (DMCA) worse, there's a meta effect.
You expect or want DMCA to be water-tight?
not quite, just curious
5:11 PM
@ShadowWizard I have. Seems Glorfindel has it up too ;)
5:31 PM
Can someone here help us with this? I've been trying to ping various individuals (in comments and answers to meta.judaism questions) for a month plus, and no one seems to respond!
Q: Can we link the Hebrew Mi Yodeya in the banner?

rikitikitemboCurrently the logo and the words mi yodeya in English in the banner serve as a link back to the home page. Clicking on the Hebrew does nothing. Would it be possible and/or advisable to link the Hebrew words to the home page as well?

@ShadowWizard done
thanks for the heads up
5:47 PM
@ɪBᴜɢ Sounds like a question for SE's legal counsel
5:58 PM
@רבותמחשבות the hebrew at the top right you mean? (excuse my ignorance)
@רבותמחשבות also: this MSE post explains what can be configured / adapted per-site in the current Stacks design.
6:15 PM
Does anyone have a screenshot (or know where I can find one) showing what page you are taken to after you sign up for an account on Meta after being redirected from the "Ask Question" button? I'd prefer not to have to create a new account just to find out.
(I'm particularly interested in whether it takes you back to the "Ask Question" page, or sends you somewhere else, e.g. the homepage.)
This isn't basketball. — TheWanderer 4 hours ago
Uh what am I doing here then?
1 hour later…
7:42 PM
@ɪBᴜɢ Removal means just that. If you want to comply you want to remove it, not complying is the other choice. You can write a reply if you believe that there is an error. Over on YT I got a takedown notice and a letter from Time's lawyer's office. I wrote back and four hours later they withdrew. But I was correct and it was they whom was in the wrong. Bigger and better race car wins. YMMV. If it's to be deleted it must be irretrievable. None of the above is "Legal Advice or Service".
@rene yes
@rene Thanks!
Q: Suggestions for Winter Bash 2019

jknappenWinter Bash 2018 is over now, and no one has opened this recurring question for the next round, so I'll just do it. Please post your suggestions regarding how to make Winter Bash 2018 even more fun than the previous Winter Bashes. New suggestions for hats and hat triggers (either regular or se...

Making it more fun, you say?
Let's require @rene to do a flower dance on Jan 1st
8:01 PM
Q: Why a suggested-edit was approved despite a Mod's rejection and without OP's approval?

FirelordAt exactly the same timestamp, three identical edits were suggested to a post by a user. Facts about those edits: The first suggested-edit (from the bottom) doesn't show who approved or rejected it, but only "this item is no longer reviewable" and error 404 for others. The second suggested ...

4 hours later…
11:52 PM
@Derpy I consider leaving my router on 24/7 perfectly normal
00:00 - 13:0013:00 - 00:00

« first day (3074 days earlier)      last day (1973 days later) »