Tavern on the Meta

user315433

12:03 AM

Additional note: on Stack Overflow we have new top nav indeed, but it's a hybrid of header (logo + nav) with something we call 'topbar' (inbox, achievements, search etc. which is that black bar on top of other sites). And we are not going to launch this kind of hybrid on other sites - instead we only gonna update topbar to be more in line with what we have on SO (in terms of layout, position of elements etc.) — Paweł ♦ yesterday

user315433

user315433

So... navigation will never be consistent between sites.

user315433

The sites that have fewer things to navigate to will have more screen real estate for navigation. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

ɥʇǝS

12:18 AM

@Michelle I mean isn't that the way it's always been?

SO is the only real exception

user315433

Yes. To put it another way: SO has more stuff to navigate (Jobs, Channels replacing Docs soon, ... ), and it's the site with less space for navigation.

user315433

12:36 AM

> It took a few years, but I finally have a reason to attempt restoring the full Stack Overflow backup on my dev machine. Abandon hope, etc. -- Adam Lear at 4:15 PM - 17 Aug 2017

user315433

Tomorrow, everyone is back to 1 rep.

user202362

1:26 AM

this chat needs a less grumpy bot

user202362

Elias

3:26 AM

user202362

3:49 AM

@Elias needs bear to spice things up 🐻

user202362

Velocity v = 🐻 + 💃🏻;

Elias

@Telkitty done

user315433

@Michelle Ah, but of course how else could the Jobs button be made sticky on the screen, so that those who go straight to an answer would still see it...

user202362

@Elias out of all bears ...

user315433

4:05 AM

The number of reviews by the 4 current candidates in Stats election: 2, 152, 357, 20631.

Elias

They are busy calculating the standard deviation and all other thingies of the candidates instead of nominating themselves.

OTOH, one of the candidate has an... "interesting" POV (it's quite obvious though)

user315433

I'd prefer a little less point-of-view, and a little more review.

user315433

> Best quality applicants we get in Adelaide are via Stack overflow, but not cheap and very low applicant count. -- Darren Oster at 7:08 PM - 17 Aug 2017

user202362

Umm ... Oyster ...

rene

6:18 AM

@canon I always thought it is me causing love/hate relationships with the UX peeps but I now learned they all have a playbook. That explains a lot.

→ 14 messages moved to Chimney

Magisch

7:35 AM

@rene Hey rene

Redo

lol.

Journeyman Geek

7:52 AM

zat looks oddly hard no notice.

Redo

8:25 AM

Elias

11:16 AM

No A/B testing for me. SO </3 :(

Redo

happened for me once

But I have a user script and I had to turn of it in order to see the change

user315433

1:18 PM

Patrick Swayze would be 65 today. :(

user315433

Dirty Dancing - Time of my Life (Final Dance) - High Quality HD

►

SmokeDetector

1:30 PM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Offensive answer detected: Name and official (?) rules for this cards game I half remembered by martin on boardgames.SE

Elias

@SmokeDetector actually spam

bluefeet

@Michelle :(

rene

→ 12 messages moved to Chimney

user202362

1333 years ago today, Battle of Marj Rahit - relevance, none

user202362

we could flash this chat with useless information, may this room be filled with irrelevant knowledge ...

Elias

1:52 PM

Sounds good! Today's topic is...

Tavern

A tavern is a place of business where people gather to drink alcoholic beverages and be served food, and in most cases, where travelers receive lodging. An inn is a tavern which has a license to put up guests as lodgers. The word derives from the Latin taberna whose original meaning was a shed, workshop, stall, or pub. In the English language, a tavern was once an establishment which served wine whilst an inn served beer and ale. Over time, the words "tavern" and "inn" became interchangeable and synonymous. In England, inns started to be referred to as public houses or pubs and the term became...

Umm... Smokey only serves coffee and tea, but no food nor alcoholic beverages...

user202362

Chicken coop

A chicken coop or hen house is a small house where female chickens are kept safe and secure. there are nest boxes found inside the hen houses for egg-laying and perches on which the birds can sleep. A chicken coop usually has an indoor area where the chickens can sleep and nest as well as an outdoor area where chickens will feed and spend the majority of the day. Inside the chicken coop are dropping boards or litter (such as straw) to collect chicken feces. A chicken coop should be cleaned after every two to three weeks and the litter shifted every day, like a cat's litter box. A coop should be...

user202362

it's like tavern ... but for chickens

user315433

!!/report productivity.stackexchange.com/questions/18073/…

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Manually reported answer: Where's my passion? by fashion boutique on productivity.SE

Feeds

2:08 PM

You shouldn't look directly at a partial eclipse because of the damage that can be caused by improperly aligning the solar-lunar orbital plane with the orbital bones around your eye.

user315433

Seems that the mentoring experiment is actually happening.

user202362

cute cake <3

Redo

@Telkitty [status-buggy] earth should be on third circle

user202362

and the sun should be a lot bigger ...

user315433

2:14 PM

On the subject of astronomy, a new blog post by Kasra: What Developers Can Learn from the Astronomical Success of Apple’s App Store

Redo

@Telkitty yes. and then you should draw moon...

where's @Sha

user202362

Is rage a passion? Hatchet is looking for an intimate partner ^&*$%*%!!!

user202362

2:34 PM

user202362

don't buy a property with long driveway with trees planted next to it, tree root will win, you either have to endure hard labour or part with your $, don't allow your loved ones to buy it either, tree root will win

user202362

don't try to cut down the tree regardless how much you hate the tree root because you cut down 1 tree, you will be surrounded by 10 angry neighbours

user202362

trees will win, you will lose

Redo

2:52 PM

@Telkitty cut down the neighbours too

canon

hmm, looks like I was removed from the A/B test for the new review indicators

or the test is over

Redo

it's over

I think so because the numbers are back for 1-2 hours

Elias

5:41 PM

Now that I think about it, I think I wasted my time commenting on a candidate of Cross Validated election, when there are 4 candidates for only 2 slots.

canon

6:01 PM

@rene certainly seems that way.

rep needs more gamification

we need quarterly seasons

with leaderboards for stuff like review queues

awards for finishing with certain placement each season, etc

titles, perhaps

Shog9

@canon we're grouping people by ip/useragent for some reason... So if you switch networks or browsers, you will probably be reassigned

rene

6:22 PM

@canon we kind of had that with our Closey bot:chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/35461827#35461827

canon

@Shog9 ah, okay. Let me ask you something... maybe a year ago I read some post that said something to the effect of, "... our UI guys went to school for this, so we defer to them." Is that indiscriminate deference?

Shog9

@canon I'm... Not sure how to respond to a question on a half-remembered quote

"No" I guess?

canon

hah

Shog9

All things being equal, we'd defer to designers when it comes to the look / behavior of some bit of the UI... But things are rarely all equal.

I kinda addressed this yesterday:

There are... rather a lot of constraints and demands on this particular bit of design. Probably more than I know of, and I know of quite a few. We're trying to provide fast access to a bunch of different functions to a bunch of different people with a bunch of different goals (some of which are not well-understood by anyone), satisfy goals for Jobs integration and (until soon) new features like Docs, branding, consistency across Int'l sites, and do all that in less space than the old header to allow it to be sticky. I don't personally like some of the trade-offs, but they are trade-offs. — Shog9 ♦ 15 hours ago

user315433

Maybe another tiny profile "top-badge"

user315433

6:25 PM

user315433

Well this one isn't tiny, but designers could come up with something better.

Shog9

Usually - and especially in the case of the SO top-bar - the designers are working to satisfy a lot of different people with different (and usually conflicting) goals.

user315433

Maybe stack vertically. And do not show the top-review badge unless something is met.

user315433

Like SO Careers folks who want traffic to job pages.

Elias

@canon I thought we already have it, turns out only for voting & editing...

so, I guess it's a good idea to add review rank... maybe...

Shog9

6:35 PM

There's good reason to think that everyone found it once, @Cody - note the huge spike after the design change. What's been a problem has been folks finding it again after a week or so. Note that the same pattern that I chart above shows up for both the Site Switcher and the Achievements drop-downs, including an up-tick in late July - that's what made me skeptical about this being connected to anything specific to /review in the first place. However, it may be possible to mitigate the damage to review in ways that aren't possible (or necessary? I'm myopic here.) for the other tools. — Shog9 ♦ 2 mins ago

canon

@rene aww, cute.

Shog9

The drop in usage of the site-switcher absolutely dwarfs review, BTW - it's something like half of what it was a year ago.

I'm... Not even sure how to determine if that's a problem.

Personally, I just type in site names.

canon

same

I don't even have SO bookmarked

I have no saved tabs

I have no bookmarks

my wife has like 100 tabs open right now. why?

Shog9

Bookmarks are handy for mobile where typing is slow and error-prone

I have 102, because it's the end of the week and I've been trying to close some

canon

holy crap

Shog9

6:38 PM

That's ignoring the tabs I have open in Firefox and on mobile

Those are personal

canon

the jets practicing for the airshow are disturbing my kittens

user315433

7:00 PM

@Shog9 On that note, can we get alias ips.stackexchange for IPS... It's the biggest launch of 2017, it deserves a short URL.

Elias

Someone can reply to this comment? I'm not sure if I can write a satisfying reply

I'm new to meta. I have no idea if anything I wrote here has been read or considered by an SE employee or anyone that can make a difference, so I wonder if I'll be wasting my time. Do meta posts actually lead to changes? — TheQuickBrownFox 7 mins ago

Shog9

@Michelle meta post...

Elias

Now I realize that browsing meta before sleeping is a bad idea...

Shog9

7:20 PM

s/before sleeping/

Elias

Hey, I like browsing meta while having a lunch ~~for source of entertainment~~ :)

Shog9

Roger Waters - Amused To Death

►

user315433

Hence the anti-fun policies: with less amusement, sites can live longer.

Elias

7:38 PM

@rene appreciate the comment reply :D

rene

yw

what was that?

canon

lol, someone dicked around with DNS

rene

awesome

Trying to become friends with Haney. Not sure if I have hit the right tone of voice....

canon

lol

user315433

7:58 PM

@rene It's not about tone of voice, you need a bottle of Red Breast 12 year

rene

:)

rene

8:13 PM

Happy

user315433

Scratch that, he wants a beer now.

user315433

> TFW you break @StackOverflow chat at 3:40pm on a Friday. Where's the beer? -- David Haney at 12:42 PM - 18 Aug 2017

Lilienthal

8:25 PM

Question: the meta thread on editing lists the scenarios where an edit's grace period ends. It makes no mention of the fact that there's an additional reason for suggested edits: if their review is completed (whether pos/neg) the grace period also ends.

Can I just go ahead and edit that in or is there some kind of process to follow for these main pages?

user315433

@Lilienthal I think you misunderstood what animuson said... "further edits will create a new suggestion for review" - this is not about grace period ending.

user315433

The whole Q&A is about suggestions being rolled into one, not about edits being rolled into one.

user315433

A suggestion is a thing that exists in the review queue, not an event related to the post. It has no effect on the post unless and until an actual edit results from a suggestion.

Lilienthal

@Michelle Hmm. I guess there's no mention of them sharing the same 5 minute grace period. So presumably the suggested edit grace period is until review completes?

16

What? Subsequent edits suggested either within their own grace period or within the grace period of the post but after the initial edit was reviewed by a human, will appear to be a part of the original suggested edit, even if said review occurred prior to the subsequent additions to the su...

^ If I'm reading it right this implies that there is a 5 minute grace period after which you can't further edit your suggestion until review completes.

In which case approval of an edit would also close the grace period.

user315433

I think there is a bit of confusion in that thread. None of the posts there are by employees, so they should not be taken as an accurate description of how the system works.

user315433

8:37 PM

Revisions directly replacing an earlier revision, and suggestions directly replacing an earlier suggestion, are different processes. Using "grace period" to refer to both leads to confusion, it's hard to know what they even mean by that term.

Lilienthal

@Michelle I don't disagree that it's confusing if they're different, but it's what the SE employee on my second link called them.

What prompted this is the suggested edits at the bottom of this timeline

There are a number of questions on meta about the potential for abuse inherent in suggested edits turning malicious after getting two initial approve votes. So there is a grace period and as far as I can tell it's either the same as a regular edit or longer. In either case, completion of the review will end that grace period.

8

A: Can I modify and resubmit my suggested edit before it is peer reviewed?

Your grace period actually applies to the suggested edit still being active. If it hasn't been approved or rejected yet, you can still continue to make additional edits to it which all get collapsed into that suggestion; just click the edit button again and the box will fill with the edit you sug...

user315433

Being concerned about hypothetical abuse is one of things that meta users are very good at.

Lilienthal

Same SE employee confirms grace period lasts until review completes.

user315433

Yes, and he's very clear on that point.

user315433

> On most of the smaller sites, it can take some time for edits to get approved/rejected, giving you ample time to correct any mistakes.

Elias

8:52 PM

sleep Elias... sleep!

Lilienthal

Okay, so basically the How does editing work post needs to either mention the distinct grace period for suggested edits or link to a corresponding section on the How do suggested edits work? post which doesn't actually exist at the moment

Elias

@Lilienthal There's an answer by GrayCygnus between 2 of his suggested edits, perhaps that's the one that ended his grace period?

> If the post being edited is a question and an answer has been added since the previous revision (ignores deleted answers).

Although I also believe that completed review will end the grace period no matter what...

Lilienthal

@Elias Yeah I just compared the timestamps, it's a bad example.

I thought the "by anyone other than the editor" also covered that case but it's only for comments it seems.

But yes, as the other linked meta posts mention the grace period will end when review completes.

Now that would be ripe for abuse otherwise. :)

Eh, I just went and posted a question on it:

0

Q: The FAQ is unclear about the grace period for suggested edits

The main FAQ for editing explains how their grace period works: Grace period In order to prevent a series of tiny edits from showing up in the revision history, a single user who edits a post is given a 5-minute grace period, except under one of the following conditions: The prev...

discussion edits

@Elias Now I wonder if an answer posted will prevent the user from further editing his suggested edit. I think the reasons on the main edit FAQ probably don't apply to the grace period for suggested edits. They're just two different implementations.

user315433

9:12 PM

@Lilienthal Suggestions live a life of their own, not affected by whatever comments or answers get added to the post.

Lilienthal

Yeah that makes sense, but that should probably be made explicit in the FAQs.

So the next unlucky bastard doesn't waste an hour of his time looking up obscure meta threads. :)

user315433

I think it makes sense enough: a user can't have two pending suggestions for the same post. So any new suggestion has to replace the older one.

Lilienthal

Yeah it does, but it can be confusing because these, usually new, users see two +2s appear in their notifications.

user315433

10:08 PM

Arduino election: 2 candidates for 3 positions, both are pro tem mods. We may have a third prolonged election soon.

user315433

> Is it plausible for a database restore to be in a suspended state for 3.5 hours? Asking for a friend. -- Adam Lear at 2:25 PM - 18 Aug 2017

user310756

10:23 PM

@Shog9 I figured - that's how you manage to be everywhere

Sha Wiz Dow Ard

Shog's secret revealed at last!

Wonders if Shog got duplicate bookmarks

taking a look on Shog's bookmarks, closing some as dupe with hammer

@TylerH why 2 People don't read things? Why not 3? ;)

Elias

11:00 PM

H-H-H-H-Happy ♪~

Sha Wiz Dow Ard

11:11 PM

lol, no idea why nobody removes this "event". Think most messages posted during those "happy hours" is 10, or maybe 10 is the sum of all messages ever posted during those dead hours.

(not counting Smokey, spammers never rest! ;))

@Elias I'm still waiting for my soup!

user315433

11:24 PM

@ShaWizDowArd It's not all about posting in chat... the ping serves as a reminder to reach for whatever in the fridge fits the occasion.

user0042

@ShaWizDowArd Replying instantly :-P

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