Tavern on the Meta

a_m0d

00:59

Just curious - is it possible to migrate questions from SO, et. al to the StackExchange 2.0 sites?

WoLpH

03:01

@am0d: currently it's not possible I think. Or atleast... my close votes only give the meta, superuser and serverfault options.

Lasse V. Karlsen

06:07

If I go to a different channel, do I leave this one?

Jeff Atwood

no, you only leave if you click "leave"

eventually you time out as well -- takes a while though

Lasse V. Karlsen

06:23

Ok, good, thanks

User 136778

why am I called User 136778

and not bitbonk

I am bitbonk everywhere exception in chat.*

User 136778

06:46

seems like bug to me

user149434

07:11

is there a software rather than a web site to log in?

User 136778

no

Jeff Atwood

07:35

bitbonk you look good now

well, you look like this..

Bonk's Adventure

Bonk's Adventure is a 2D platform video game developed by Red Company and Atlus and released in 1990 for the TurboGrafx-16. In Japan it was known as PC Genjin, a play on the Japanese name for the system, 'PC Engine'. The game was later ported to the NES, Game Boy, Amiga, arcade systems under different titles (FC Genjin, GB Genjin and BC Genjin) and is available through Nintendo's Virtual Console service and on the Japanese PlayStation Store. Story The game's protagonist is Bonk, a strong caveboy who battles anthropomorphic dinosaurs and other prehistoric themed enemies. Bonk's mission is...

hmemcpy

Well well well... hello all :)

millenomi

08:30

trying the chat out, one, two, three

nice :)

mmm, this reminds me I haven't dipped in the cocoa/iphone/ios/mac tags in a while on SO

mr.bio

08:41

wooow , gr8 work !

millenomi

made a Cocoa room! because the world needed one!

and because if WPF can have one, I don't see why we Apple snobs can't :)

anyway: chat.meta.stackoverflow.com/rooms/102/cocoa :)

thijs

"test"

millenomi

works

thijs

oh I mean "Hello World" of course :P

millenomi

:p

Commander Keen

08:51

Another test. Keen icons rock :)

thijs

hey

Adhip Gupta

09:22

Hello World

Veera

hello (chat) world.

Dave Van den Eynde

Yes, hello. What's the topic?

millenomi

"How cool is this chat?"

also kittens, I think, but let's not stray too far :)

Adhip Gupta

and, unicorns.

millenomi

unicorns are always in topic. everywhere.

Adhip Gupta

09:27

Permalinks for every chat message is pretty awesome.

2

Dave Van den Eynde

Rooms for every question is pretty awesome too

2

millenomi

++

which is shorthand for "I agree wholeheartedly"

Dave Van den Eynde

You can also "star" the message if you agree.

millenomi

I see message editing too. Awesomesauce.

Dave Van den Eynde

Editing your messages is also pretty awesome

2

millenomi

09:36

I guess EU time is not a good time for mostly-US-traffic sites, is it? :)

Paul Dixon

You know what would be cool? If real time chat replaced the comments feature...

millenomi

:O /me immediately stars your suggestion.

Adhip Gupta

Won't that be just too much noise?

millenomi

mmmm; anyone other than me sees potential for star abuse (assuming all my starred comments also appear in your sidebar?)

Paul Dixon

It would just make comments more immediate, and allow that first flurry of "your question needs more information" to proceed more smoothly

"star abuse" is a term waaay ahead of its time :)

millenomi

09:38

star spam, then? :p

Paul Dixon

"Lord Vader, they are charging us with 3 counts of star abuse!"

millenomi

galactic social workers were then dispatched.

not much traffic in the other room I made; but I wanted to be there to raise the flag.

THIS IS OUR CHAN or something.

"and no one (but the mods) can kick people outta here" or somesuch.

millenomi

10:13

because there's no better time than when you're packing

to find out your nemesis bug

is caused by Bizarre Linking Shenanigans.

(or at least appears to be!)

will have to bring work with me to the sea, dammit.

millenomi

10:44

Ooooh, <3 the iPhone UI :D

A screenshot of the aforementioned mobile UI: db.tt/JORJMc

I guess it will also work on Android phones

waffles

12:04

RE: " @Andy @Lasse: "I know, but the good answers get buried by the simple ones :-)" shameless plug , my blog post ... samsaffron.com/archive/2010/08/05/… , plenty of great well thought out answers that come late still manage to get upvotes

in fact running stats once you filter out the really short answers and the wiki stuff. things start looking really interesting

agree that lot of times one liners win the reputation lottery ... but the stats kind of show that reputation lotteries are rare

Casebash

You have to be patient

superjoe30

12:20

so....

how is this better than IRC

njd

It works behind corporate firewalls.

Casebash

I know that I've sometimes put a lot of effort into high quality answers and been disappointed that they seem to have been ignored. But eventually, you start to gain upvotes

Paul Dixon

@superjoe30 it also retains history of each room, and lets you get a permalink to any post for cross referencing. Just sayin' :)

Casebash

The star feature is interesting + editing is nice

waffles

@Cas agree, it takes a while sometimes to gain the upvotes

Casebash

12:29

That being said, this is not really revolutionary, just nicely implemented. And will be better implemented over time

waffles

revolutionary = google wave

Casebash

Which is now not supported by Google :-(

waffles

exactly

Casebash

Regardless, I think that Wave will prove an inspiration for future projects

spoulson

Hello

Casebash

12:30

hi

waffles

I hope not, it was an sad example where performance constraints were chucked out the window

Casebash

@waffles: Performance was getting better over time

waffles

performance should have been good from day one, eg. Google Chrome ...

get that right, then wack on features

Casebash

It was still in preview

waffles

nobody understood it

Casebash

12:34

I understood it. Took a lot of effort though

I just love the edit feature (of this and in wave too)!

waffles

yeah does IRC have that :)

Casebash

part of the problem with wave is that most of the benefits would only accumulate if everyone uses it

Daniel Straight

12:51

So... is everyone at work?

Wim Hollebrandse

Afternoon...well - for some of us...

Daniel Straight

I guess that is a relevant piece of information: location. I'm in the US, so work is just getting started.

Wim Hollebrandse

UK here.

Darrel Miller

@Daniel Just warming up for work in Montreal

Wim Hollebrandse

Just come back from a pub lunch. :-D

Daniel Straight

12:54

Nice.

Wim Hollebrandse

How do you know? It was minging! ;-) Nah, lovely fish and chips. ;-)

Daniel Straight

I love fish and chips. I just hate vinegar. Does that make me a bad person?

Wim Hollebrandse

I would say these chatrooms need to be introduced as part of SO, too, not just for meta.

Daniel Straight

@Darrel How is Montreal on this lovely Thursday morning?

Wim Hollebrandse

I'm not a vinegar fan either.

Casebash

12:55

I'm in Aus

Daniel Straight

So it's like... the middle of the night?

Wim Hollebrandse

But some tartare sauce on the cod. Yumm.

Casebash

11pm

Darrel Miller

@Daniel Kind of damp from thunderstorms last night. Other than that its pretty nice.

Daniel Straight

Tartar sauce I can work with. Cod I can definitely work with.

Wim Hollebrandse

12:56

And batter, obviously.

Daniel Straight

Stormy in New Orleans too last night. Amazing lightning actually. If I wasn't driving, I would've been taking pictures.

Wim Hollebrandse

Artery clogging batter.

Casebash

I like seafood sauce

Daniel Straight

And beer, I presume?

Wil

First time here! - is chat only active for meta.stackoverflow at the moment?

Wim Hollebrandse

12:57

Indeed. Crikey, you're psychic.

Darrel Miller

@Wil Yes,

Casebash

@Wil: Seems to be

Wil

cool

Wim Hollebrandse

Would be awesome if every question on SO has it's own (possibly time limited) chatroom.

Wil

... Anyone messed around / typed a/s/l yet !!!

Daniel Straight

12:59

Some questions definitely need the ability to discuss

Casebash

@Wil: We don't want all the answers happening in chat

Michael Haren

This is going to kill me

Casebash

But it will be good to finally have some good discussions

Michael Haren

the productivity lost to this service might be measurable in federal labor statistics

:)

Wim Hollebrandse

You can't be as elaborative in brief chat txt as in a proper answer post.

Darrel Miller

13:00

@Michael Yeah, I hear you. But I will not be able to resist joining the hive mind.

Wil

@Michael agree there - been here two minutes and I can see myself wasting time here!

Wim Hollebrandse

Besides, transcripts of the chat would become part of the history of the question/answers.

I'm loving this.

Michael Haren

chatting could be better than comments, with promoted chats replacing promoted comments; and as long as comments/chats don't earn rep, people will still post answers

Darrel Miller

I can imagine the next step being enabling a TinyChat style video and audio. Then we can argue face to face :-)

Wim Hollebrandse

Agreed @Michael

@Darrel - that would be too overwhelming.

Michael Haren

13:03

@DarrelMiller couple that with the "random unanswered question" button and you'd have chat roulette, programmer edition

Darrel Miller

@Michael Awesome.

Daniel Straight

tests support for actions

Or is it just formatting?

Well there you have it

I guess I could've done that in the Sandbox, huh?

Michael Haren

@DanielStraight check this out

Daniel Straight

@Michael Thanks

So I found soma fm through a deleted HN post the other day, and now I'm addicted.

Pwninstein

Hi thar.

Michael Haren

13:10

@Pwninstein that was fast

Pwninstein

Haha, I suppose it was

Michael Haren

Am I going to regret opening fiddler while here?

Pwninstein

@MichaelHaren give it a try, it should be interesting

Darrel Miller

@Micheal I'm running it

Michael Haren

Answer: yes.

Pwninstein

13:14

@MichaelHaren Yes you regret it?

Michael Haren

It's a very lightweight, 1s poll; I bet this team is eager to get some websockets action

@Pwninstein yes (not really)--pretty much what you'd expect

Darrel Miller

@Michael I'm seeing a 2-3 second poll.

Wim Hollebrandse

Maybe it's dynamic, based on average chat msg updates

Which would make sense

Pwninstein

@MichaelHaren alrighty, I'm going to try to get something done this morning. Thanks for linking this!

Darrel Miller

Someone really needs to trim those headers :-) 1,273 bytes of sent headers on every request.

Michael Haren

13:17

@DarrelMiller - that seems to be right (pardon my poor estimation skills). Fiddler supports you

Knox

Just arrived

a newbie to this chat

Decio Lira

hi @knox

Darrel Miller

I wonder why the polling uses a POST. The info in the body could easily be put in the URL.

Knox

Hi, Decio

spoulson

@DarrelMiller what difference would that make?

@DarrelMiller One side effect of POST is that responses are not supposed to be cached. Ideal for a realtime chat.

Knox

13:23

I wonder if they are using SQL server for database... I'm not sure it would scale for realtime chat

Of course I know they use SQL Server for the rest of stack

mquander

oh hi

Knox

hi, @mquander

mquander

oh goodness you got my thing bouncing up and down over there

truly a featureful chat

Knox

is that what the @ in @mquander does?

Wim Hollebrandse

@DarrelMiller Maybe they're expecting chat messages > ~2k chars?

Darrel Miller

13:26

@spoulson Not sending a body is probably a bit more lightweight. You can prevent caching with GETs too. I would expect that polling is safe and idempotent. The semantics match GET better than POST, that's all.

Dave

How meta is this... chatting about the chat room :)

On Meta

Wim Hollebrandse

@Dave Well, we could be chatting about the chatting in the chat room...etc..

mquander

dave when you entered i could barely resist saying "dave has landed"

what with the icons flying all around

Dave

Yes it is a potentially infinite loop

@mquander yeah I noticed that...

Darrel Miller

@Wim. I'm not suggesting that sending a message should be done with GET, just the polling.

Cristian Ciupitu

13:27

is there a way to download the CV from careers with all the CSS embedded in the HTML page?

Wim Hollebrandse

@Darrel Ah - good point. Indeed.

Drew

J0.

Michael Haren

@CristianCiupitu your browser will probably do that for you if you do a save as

Knox

bye for now

Wim Hollebrandse

Cheerio @Knox

Cristian Ciupitu

13:30

@MichaelHaren: it doesn't work. The CSS resources are saved as separate files (just as they should be).

I'm using firefox-3.6.7-1.fc13.x86_64 in case this matters

Dave

So you have to open a new window to see a profile? There's an opportunity for improvement...

Michael Haren

@Cristian: use IE and save as MHT or, print to PDF? Not quite what you asked for, but it's a single-file result

Daniel Straight

a little googling shows that there are tools out there to convert separate css to inline, you can probably find one to suit your needs

Cristian Ciupitu

@MichaelHaren: well, I sure don't have IE on Linux, but I'll try the print to PDF. It crossed my mind too, but I haven't tried it yet.

Michael Haren

@Cristian It's not reproducable later, but here you go: share1t.com/ry3mfz

Cristian Ciupitu

13:38

@MichaelHaren: no need, thank you. I've tried to print to both a PDF and a PS, but it seems that only 1 page is printed. I wonder if there's a bug in Firefox.

thanks!

Michael Haren

@CristianCiupitu no problem; back to work--later

mquander

13:57

what is the coolest code everyone wrote yesterday

phwd

To @rchern @eagle @ChrisF whenever you see this

1

Q: Bad but unavoidable websites

I asked this over at stackoverflow, but was kicked to this site instead: - What are some websites that are really bad (at performance, design, usability etc) that you would rather not use, but are compelled to because of necessity or lack of alternatives? Post each example as a separate answer...

website

spoulson

14:59

ded

Chacha102

15:13

Hello

Lance Roberts

15:44

Why are they allowing so many subjective questions in WebApps? I don't mind poll-things that have useful answers people can use, but the one just posted here has no usefulness (based on the aim of the Website to help WebApp users). Is the team just trying to keep people happy until the community builds, and then the community will take care of it. I guess it does motivate me to get to 3k.

The question just posted might be useful on a Web Design stackexchange.

rchern

@Lance, it is definitely something on our radar.

There are a bunch of questions on the meta regarding ot/webapp-rec/list/etc...but I don't feel that there's much of a consensus.

Chacha102

I've been hearing a lot of complaints from the Gaming mods

about the same types of problems

rchern

I've been trying to formulate a comprehensive post for a few days.

It is an issue on a bunch of the sites and the mods have been talking. It is going to come down to the community though.

Chacha102

I really think that there is a giant problem in giving new mods control of a site

I think that we need more experience mods to take the reigns until the site builds

Because a lot of these things are just experience problems

not knowing how to moderate properly

rchern

I disagree.

Moderators are there to do things the community can't.

Chacha102

15:48

The other option @LanceRoberts, is that they want to get the subjective questions out of the way as CWs and then there won't be more in the future since they will be duplicates

rchern

The community has to be the one to voice its opinion on things like this.

I disagree. Making everything CW is not the answer.

Lance Roberts

I understand a need for more flexibility when starting a site up, so that you can build a community, so I don't know where the line really is. I just know that if I was 3k I'd vote to close that question.

Chacha102

Well, at least yesterday it seemed like non of the mods were waiting for the community to say anything

Ivo Flipse

Well @LanceRoberts I'm planning to stop it:

Chacha102

they were acting on their own thoughts of what was appropriate.

Ivo Flipse

15:49

8

Q: Voting on the future of list of X questions

As of now we have several questions discussing what to do with list of X and games-rec questions: Here's a summary of all that has been said before (and was upvoted): Should we allow poll questions - Result: no, we shouldn't Best/favourite/subjective list type questions - Result: no potential ...

discussion scope close-votes lists

Lance Roberts

I definitely disagree with using CW for these types of questions, but my Meta WebApps question on that brought out from RC that that was how they wanted to handle those types of questions.

rchern

The issue has been raised in mod discussions with each other just about daily.

@Chacha102, it isn't the mods' site. It is the community. Mods aren't really there to say "this is how I want to do it so that's what we're doing."

Lance Roberts

@Ivo, I don't think that all list questions are bad, since some can just be an efficient way of answering a lot of questions, see my post here: meta.webapps.stackexchange.com/questions/354/…

rchern

@Lance, rep limits are lowered during the beta, you're closer than you think to being able to vote to close. (;

Chacha102

@rchern I realize that. I'm the biggest proponent on that. I've called out numerous Stack Overflow Moderators on that

@LanceRoberts Its 500 rep for Vote to Close

Ivo Flipse

15:53

@LanceRoberts if a question is good, it should be open, but all others shouldn't even exist as closed questions

hehe @LanceRoberts, turns out I was the only one to upvote your question

Lance Roberts

@Ivo, now that's funny

wilhelmtell

16:16

Afternoon, gentlemen.

Chacha102

Good afternoon

Tim Post

0

Q: can anyone reccommend a Google SERP tracker?

I want to track my website's position in Google's search results for around 50 keywords/phrases and am looking to a nice webapp/windows app to automate this process? Ideally i want to see pretty javscript or flash line graphs for my keyword/position. I'm currently free-trialing: Raven Tools and ...

seo tracking serps

phsr

16:44

Anyone use linode?

Tim Post

@phsr I did. I moved to my own Xen farm though

phsr

@TimPost: did you like it? I am about to sign up.

i am looking to give someone a referral

Tim Post

@phsr I never had any complaints. "Simple, useful and reasonably reliable" comes to mind

But, it has been a while. I work for a large cloud host, so I have not paid for hosting in a very long time.

phsr

Who do you work for?

Tim Post

A large cloud host that I never promote outside of working hours :)

phsr

16:49

if you dont mind me asking

haha

Tim Post

Especially as a moderator on Pro Webmasters .. that's just .. sticky if I even looked like I was promoting my employer

phsr

ah, wasnt aware if that you were a mod, congrats, and very understandable

thanks

Chacha102

Hello

Whats everyone up to?

herzmeister der welten

Helloes General Chatters :)

Chacha102

I need to make that description more fun..

What should the description be?

herzmeister der welten

16:55

of the chat?

Chacha102

yeah

phsr

does anybody want to give me a referral to linode.com? Last chance :P

herzmeister der welten

supra-awesomatic chatting experience

Chacha102

there we go

@phsr Thanks for the description

balpha

@Chacha102 Who put you in charge here? Oh, wait, you did

Chacha102

16:57

Ok

Now I have it

phsr

hahaha

Chacha102

Perfect Family Guy Reference

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