Chat feedback - 2010-10-22

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5:45 AM

Suggestion: I think we could use a profile link top right (between all rooms and search), to be coherent with parent sites. Also, now that the 'chat' link jumps straight to a room, it's 'harder' to get to the 'catchup' page.

"Rejoin all favourite rooms" doesn't trigger the Other Rooms You're In pane

6:01 AM

@radp Jeff deleted it...

@radp - I've fixed that just now (I think)

if you could try to repro, I'd appreciate it

left favourite rooms

reloaded

still have the problem.

@MarcGravell it's okay.

IIRC there is a small delay on rejoining - to prevent the yoyo effect. Let me try to repro...

but yes; I saw that this morning

indeed, after I joined those four other favourite channels of mine, I went in The Tavern

and it got me a "other rooms you're in pane" with just chat feedback.

60 seconds, it seems

i.e. you can't rejoin a room within a minute without it getting grumpy

leaves the tavern

6:14 AM

rejoins

yep, it's been fixed

thanks @Marc :)

So my other question: is that a handy place for that button? I find it helpful, but maybe I'm not the best judge....

I found it kind of like an ad -- annoying

2

A: Single comment split into many comments

I blame me. OK, I didn't make the actual code changes, but I did hint more than a few times that enter could submit comments. Either way, Jeff is aware that it is causing problems so maybe the old behaviour will revert before too long. In the interim, I suggest (to borrow a meme from "chat"): /...

but now that the "rejoin favourite rooms" button is there, I can make it go away

so it's fine

maybe add a small (×) button for who's not interested?

6:19 AM

That is doable. The reason it exists is that we are getting a "don't make me think" policy for people joining from SOFU/SE sites, so they get right into a (hopefully relevant) chat. So we want to make it clear that other places exist.

Actually, maybe I could skip that link for people who have favorites (other than the current room)... since it is obvious they know that other rooms exist - thoughts?

the rejoin favourite rooms button is a great idea there

especially when you have other favourite rooms

(duh)

"other favorite rooms" - it doesn't appear if you're in your only favorite room.

maybe "[rejoin favourite rooms] or view all 20" would serve the same purpose and be more compact

and give me a link to manage favourites from

@MarcGravell, or if you're already in both your favourite rooms (im my case)?

so I can easily remove the star from SO@Twitter

6:23 AM

if you are in multiple rooms, you get the "other rooms" panel instead

actually it's silly to have frozen, starred rooms

anyway, later

fixed; no more annoying ad for @radp

ohhh are we doing custom requests? (-;

depends on what you ask for... ;p

have a pet peeve?

that's a dangerous question (;

i think i've coded commands for most of my pet peeves, ha

except for the SO notification sound ):

6:32 AM

Hmmm... I've noticed that you do not store the message source with .data() anymore

That's slightly unfortunate

how so?

@MarcGravell Well I'm working on a functionality that allows you to clip stuff from the chat

clip stuff?

I was preparing to use the original URL from the source for oneboxes

@rchern Using localStorage, it's possible to store quite a lot of stuff and share it across multiple rooms

eh, we don't want it to be a dumping ground either though

6:35 AM

erm

Yeah, it's a lot of stuff

But I was testing it, so I was deliberately clipping large oneboxes

I'm not sure if I should find it a positive thing (in that people want to use the system) or a negative thing (in that people see huge functional gaps) that people go to so much trouble on custom scripts here ;p

@MarcGravell Nah, I don't think 99% of the people are going to find this useful

@MarcGravell Well, @rchern has some unresolved hatred towards computer mice, and I just like making shiny things....I'm not sure what @YiJiang's game is though. :P

6:39 AM

@MarcGravell, both? hehe

I just need some experience writing actual Javascript

@TimStone It's fun, that's what I'm in for

Ah, there we go, a learning experience, the noblest reason of us all. :P

:)

@MarcGravell, i hadn't really originally planned my script to grow so much. was just gonna be something to do explicit replies to. and balpha gave me the ctrl+space code before that.

but it just kind of, um, morphed?

random question @rchern @YiJiang - how many sites do you parcipate in / monitor / etc - in particular I'm thinking "chat" (anyone else feel free to chip in, of course)

Scope creep (also called focus creep, requirement creep, feature creep, function creep) in project management refers to uncontrolled changes in a project's scope. This phenomenon can occur when the scope of a project is not properly defined, documented, or controlled. It is generally considered a negative occurrence, and thus, should be avoided. Typically, the scope increase consists of either new products or new features of already approved product designs, without corresponding increases in resources, schedule, or budget. As a result, the project team risks drifting away from its ori...

SO, Meta, WA. so we'll go with 3 sites and 2.01 chats?

6:44 AM

2.01?

is .01 too generous for WA's chat? (;

@MarcGravell I watch SO and the Tavern on MSO

right. So; there's a proposal to move back a lot of the SE chats to chat.SE, until such time that it has critical mass. So there is actually some community there. Thoughts?

@MarcGravell, if chats were more integrated like how an irc client can connect to multiple servers and have them all right there, i'd be at least idling in more rooms.

@MarcGravell The chats are extremely quiet compared to how much traffic the main site gets

You always feel like you're only talking to those few same people over and over again

The problem with this is that you have to chose between spending time here and on the main site

So most choose the main site, and chat gets neglected

6:47 AM

those that want to involved, can be; at least.

@rchern - chat.SE can act pretty much like that, but at the moment only within chat.SE; I suspect chat.SO would stay independent.

@MarcGravell I think that putting that many rooms together might be overwhelming to people who aren't familiar with the chat, which might work against reaching that critical mass. I guess the reaction really depends on what level of interaction the common user wants, and what your ultimate goal for that interaction is.

Ghost towns aren't all that inviting either, so.

we have devices in place to help keep some distinction between the rooms etc.

/switch wa.gen, /switch mso.tav, /switch so.javascript all pulling from the others rooms you're in within the same browser tab...that's what i'd like...it would be so fantastic.

@rchern How many times must I remind you, XSS!

but then you get into well let's just combine and have a single chat server

@YiJiang, why wouldn't /switch work? all it does is pull the href from other rooms you're in and set window.location.

6:54 AM

@rchern Yes, but you need to remember the room number. Not sure if you'd want that...

huh? /switch doesn't run off the room id

is confused now

@rchern Yes, but the rooms you are in in other sites aren't displayed on the right, where they can easily be scraped and used to do room switching

@MarcGravell Do you know how low the chat traffic is for recent graduate sites as a point of comparison?

not that some random userscript users write is going to be a major factor in the decision, haha

@YiJiang, i know they aren't now. i'm saying that it'd be super awesome if they were!

@YiJiang I believe she was suggesting that if they were all combined then she would be able to do that because they'd all be in the same place.

6:59 AM

it sounds like @MarcGravell is talking about moving what chat site a room lives on...which is different from what we're talking about hehe.

there are lots of logistics problems truing to support cross site under the original architecture; for example, your userid is shared. chat.SE addresses many of these points, allowing it to work.

IMO, it makes very little logical sense to say "chat.webapps is its own place", but also want "/switch wa.gen" if those are different places.

why?

people have been doing it in irc clients for years (;

No; they have always been on the same IRC server, switching between rooms - no?

what you are talking about is jumping server.

@rchern Quick, let's get Jeff in here. ;)

in my irc client, i'm connected to goes to count 6 irc servers and am in, well, let's just go with alot of channels across those servers

the servers have nothing to do with each other, but they're all in my chat application.

7:06 AM

@MarcGravell As far as the distinction between rooms goes, what sort of thing did you have in mind? I'm just trying to envision in my head right now how it would work.

@rchern But that's just because those IRC rooms happen to be on different servers, if they were all on chat.SE it's essentially the same anyway right?

sure, if they want to consolidate all the chat servers into a single one then yeah.

I believe that's where he was going with that, yeah. :)

but having everything but SO on the same server and having SO chat elsewhere would be weird no?

(I said XSS, but I meant Same Origin Policy)

@TimStone, my last 2 lines went together as one thought. >_>

7:09 AM

I think we'll need to see how that goes, but SO seems to have a different usage profile.

I think it would be a little weird too, personally.

and then where is the line drawn? is SU's chat isolated also? what about SF? AU? etc

i get that i'm an edge case. meh.

@rchern You're the 1/4 million chatter!

LOL

Sorry, I've run out of constructive things to say at the immediate moment.

7:12 AM

does that mean i get a 2nd t-shirt o:

I would expect: SO / SF / SU to stay independent; they have reasonable traffic, and have never been SE sites; AskUbuntu is different due to pairing - but I expect the other SE would be central until reaching critical mass.

Indeed, it might simply work better to move everything central, and worry more about logical data partitioning. Which is (in part) what chat.SE does.

And it might be better to leave them on chat.SE so that you can have the things you keep asking for.

So let me rephrase: given that it solves the problem: what is the resistance to chat.SE ?

(while retaining your site's identity, etc)

Well, there's the inevitable huge backlash, but that's not really a persuasive reason to do or not do anything.

so then getting your own chat server is paired with getting your domain? so in however many months when gaming has grown and they get their domain and own chat server, in addition to the naming fiasco (and i really don't see how it'll be anything but), they have to deal with explaining to users why they can no longer find the various chats?

"They took my chat!", in spite of any separation and such.

eh, sure there are things i'd like to have @MarcGravell, but i do recognize you're not coding this just for me... |:

i guess i'm just having trouble picturing the imaginary lines in the sand as to what gets combined and what doesn't.

7:18 AM

I think the main motivation for the per-site scenario is that it limits the expansiveness enough that you can locate and participate in only what you want to participate in with virtually zero fuss.

If we were to go to a combined chat scenario, would you have controls in place that would automatically filter based on the sites that a user participates in?

@TimStone we could do, indeed. We know all that data, and we know what each room is associated with.

SHE KNOWS THE PASSWORD!

oh gawd, what have you done @MarcGravell?!

7:19 AM

No, she's not there. I'm talking to an empty room.

@rchern ?

SHE KNOWS TEH PASSWORD!!!

brb

@MarcGravell I was just thinking from the perspective of what people don't want to participate in, for example someone who has no interest in Gaming can currently just not visit that site. That, to me, would be the biggest reason not to go to a combined chat scenario, but it's also a user experience that can be managed without hassling the user.

@MarcGravell twas in response to you @Tim (and @YiJiang) commenting about me knowing a chat password

Just when we thought that had finally been laid to rest too.

Good timing!

7:22 AM

oy

@rchern Give it to us... or we'll turn your smiles around!

you're already doing that ):

how does having each site's design tie into chat rooms for that site on the combined chat.se? if someone creates a room for WebApp Recommendations vs a jQuery room?

@rchern, good question.

fully. By default we pick up the primary* site of the user creating the room, but we can tweak it after the fact.

*=where "primary" is still a bit vague and tbd, and may require some more thought...

how are mods of the sites handled on chat.SE?

7:32 AM

Oooh with the good questions today ;p At the moment you'd get site-wide mod, but that is perhaps too generous. It could perhaps be limited to rooms for that site.

That is a good question....you were right to trust her (with the...well, we all know where this is going).

I've always felt that the room creator has too much power

@MarcGravell Likewise, what about the rep requirements?

seems like the easiest thing to do would be to have each room belong to a site that you have to select when creating the room

Since rooms on large topics like "General" or "Javascript" will always be there

It's just a matter of how fast somebody could rush in and create those rooms once the site is active

7:34 AM

@rchern yes, that is an option too. Just need to write a pretty picker.

Can't moderation be community based, like what SO is now?

because then you've got to consider private rooms also

i shouldn't be allowed to see Gaming's mod room

community based: well, it largely is - any specific things you were thinking of?

mods: indeed

@MarcGravell Well, like what @radp suggested, things like timeout for the room when the discussion gets too hot should be determined by a vote, or something similar

Now it's up to the creator, but for large topical rooms that would basically be the guy that rushed in and created it first

we can tweak the owner(s) after the fact if it is a problem.

7:39 AM

past 2:30am here, off to bed. @MarcGravell, certainly not saying it is a bad idea, just lots of questions about how it would work. hard to know without seeing it.

7:52 AM

Yeah, @MarcGravell, code it first, then we'll tell you if we want it :)

3 hours later…

10:32 AM

I'm obviously against chat.SE because it breaks SO Live! Chat Edition for SE sites.

on a more serious note, gaming.se is still the site that uses chat the most, more than SU at any rate. If you're going to bring gaming.se under chat.se, I'm fully expecting all chats to go single domain. :)

after all, why have 20 or 4 chat feedback rooms?

and, on the other hand, why not have one chat per site? Is mso going to swallow metas that don't get used enough?

and, on the other hand, why not have one chat per site? Is mso going to swallow metas that don't get used enough?

@radp Double post

what is reputation in chat.se after all?

@yij flaky mobilw connection here :(

and unreliable on screen keyboard

finally, when is chat replacing the so comment system

:D

3 hours later…

1:16 PM

using the new rejoin all favorites button on the right did not rejoin all my favorites

1 hour later…

2:45 PM

← 11 messages moved from The Tavern (General)

ohhh that reminds me

would it be possible database-wise to add a link to the moved from message that would show what messages had been moved?

Suggestion: redirect meta.chat.stackoverflow.com to chat feedback!

2

@NickCraver And meta.chat.meta.stackoverflow.com to a warning about meta recursion

aye

@NickCraver I already mistype chat.meta as meta.chat on a regular basis :)

2:56 PM

since my OS drive died yesterday I don't have those pesky problems with little things like "browser history" :)

Bug? chat.meta.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/250226#250226 won't onebox.

missing the http:// ?

that's a deleted question

@rchern No, I copied the entire URL right out of the browser's location bar.

Then, when it didn't onebox, I removed the optional text at the end.

@PopularDemand, hehe, seems to be the usual culprit

2:58 PM

@balpha Oh, I must have refreshed right before. Thanks.

2 hours later…

4:32 PM

Is it just me or have oneboxes been really unstable lately?

4 hours later…

8:02 PM

@MichaelMrozek What dost thou mean?

9:02 PM

@radp I'll paste the link, it'll show the fancy new loading bar, and say "timeout" after 10 seconds. If I click retry generally I end up with two copies of the box; if I just refresh without retrying the box will show up on its own

@MichaelMrozek, yes I have seen this

One time the one-box post and my normal post after it just didn't go through for some reason

9:19 PM

@MichaelMrozek So balpha got around to implementing if (user == MichaelMrozek) screwWithUser = true;, did he? Nice. New features all the time at Stack Exchange.

2

):

It's fine as long as @rchern is affected too

@MichaelMrozek Is that a sockpuppet admission?

Hm... now to figure out which one of you two is the puppet.

If @rchern is my sockpuppet this is a seriously elaborate ruse we've been working on for the last few months

@MichaelMrozek Which would be just like you.

9:27 PM

o:

10:15 PM

@MichaelMrozek no repro

11:01 PM

@balpha, @MarcGravell, the event alert on mobile isn't encoded

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