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12:12 AM
Public Service Announcement (since we're apparently doing those now):
> meta will be migrating to the NYC datacenter over the next 12 hours; there may be .. more oddness than usual here
12:37 AM
@radp's psa > @PopularDemand's psa
just saying (;
@MichaelMrozek, just installed your flags script, nice!
12:51 AM
@rchern Thanks; I would've posted it awhile ago if I'd noticed that question, I just stumbled across it searching for something else
1:14 AM
@rchern No question. Especially since, by the time I announced it, everyone was gone.
Freakin' Big-Oh/Big-Theta/Little-Omega proofs, man.
Alright, 13 hours in the office is enough. (Well, maybe not, but it's 2125h local time and I want to go home.) See you.
1 hour later…
2:53 AM
Getting close to 1-million SO questions ...
Is there a list somewhere of the abilities mods have?
hmm, dunno
if there is, fill me in!
I was going to add a link to that page in the tag wiki, and couldn't find one.
All I know is that you're allowed to close single-handedly, lock, delete, protect, ban and leave users' milk out overnight.
Aug 26 at 18:14, by Shog9
Mods can also come into your house at night and leave your milk out. Some mod abilities aren't talked about much.
don't forget that we get to eat all the cookies.
@rchern Hm, I think you're pulling my leg. You'd just keep the milk, if you were permitted all the cookies.
3:08 AM
well we have to throw you off the scent somehow
I just got my first jury duty questionnaire!
3:20 AM
Yay! Wait...
@MichaelMrozek Not so fast; it's for the county I moved out of two months ago.
Very prescient of you
@MichaelMrozek Thank you, thank you.
@MichaelMrozek I don't remember if you were here when I mentioned this earlier, but I'm getting close to posting a feature request about abolishing -- or revamping, really -- CW.
I was considering linking to this in justification:
Sep 28 at 15:00, by Michael Mrozek
@Diago He's saying he doesn't see the point of CW if not for this, which I somewhat agree with; I don't know what the legitimate use of CW is anymore
You object to any question that can have multiple true answers...?
@Ami Who are you asking?
3:31 AM
@PopularDemand You. Sorry...
No, I don't. I just think that people use it wrong 90% of the time.
is getting rid of it better than educating the users and being more active against correcting the usage?
@PopularDemand If you can get support on meta to ban CW, you could easily get enough support to "enforce correct usage" of CW. I would think...
CW seems to be used as a cover to excuse "too subjective", and now there is Programmers from 51 ...
@AidenBell Now all we need to do is migrate.
3:36 AM
I like the CW concept, however and think that getting people to use it right would be better than a ban. Easier said than done ... hard enough getting sensible questions in the first instance!
@PopularDemand You're free to quote me; hopefully you have better arguments than "Michael Mrozek doesn't understand CW, so we should probably get rid of it"
I think CW has its place, although I think the name "community wiki" is not at all helpful
Maybe : Open for edit
I usually use it for questions with no "correct" answer on the SE sites; on SO I would generally close those as subjective, so I'm not really sure which is correct
IMVHO, it is useful when the asker or answerer doesn't have a 100% answer and thinks everyone could chip in ... negating points and putting a good q/a first
@MichaelMrozek, the other way works too. is there are answer that is incorrect?
3:40 AM
@rchern I used to put it that way, but people jump all over that. If the question is "what is your favorite web browser?", "linux" is not a correct answer
any serious answer
@rchern What, the inevitable "Anything but IE lolz!" answer with 50 upvotes isn't serious enough? :P
I think the community-wiki format would work if there were questions like "What other effective ways could I write this algorithm in <language>?" (probably not a great example)...usually it's "What do you think about x?" or "What are the <subjective classification> things about <language>?"
3:58 AM
That's why I don't really close as subjective on the SEs unless it's insanely bad. "What do you think about X" can generally be rephrased "What advantages does X have" or "Is there any reason not to use X", so I just make sure it's CW
@MichaelMrozek Yeah, that seems reasonable. The "What language should I use for...?" questions are in a similar boat, though even if they were reworded to not be so subjective, in many cases they're ridiculously broad.
Another problem is people who don't read the existing answers or feel like they have to give their own (instead of editing in their point where appropriate). Not a CW-specific issue, but there's less excuse for it to occur in that case.
@PopularDemand On an unrelated note, I'm pretty sure the privileges wikis are supposed to be site-generic
I made a pretty large effort to keep them that way since waffles plans to clone them to all the sites, and you keep editing in meta-specific stuff
Gah, sorry, had to step away.
@MichaelMrozek Ah, I had no idea they were going to be cloned.
We should probably find out from @waffles how he wants it to work, but I think it's supposed to be generic until after they're all done and copied, and then we can add in specific stuff on each site
> we will then use these wikis as the global default wikis for all sites
I thought he meant the categories would be used everywhere.
But now that you say that, I guess he probably meant what you said.
4:16 AM
Q: Java "User" class naming best practice?

SteveI'm about to create a User class for my project. Any opinions as to whether it is bad practice to create such a commonly-named class? I could complement it with a prefix specific to my project.

I wonder how likely it really is that he has no idea that packages are, and that that's the answer to his question...
Half the problem is that people don't have the same definition for CW, so they all use it different ways.
4:35 AM
@PopularDemand From looking at the (many) questions about it on MSO, there definitely doesn't seem to be any consistent interpretation of what it's for...meh.
Thankfully I don't even have any problems interesting enough to ask a question about period, let alone one I'd have to consider marking community wiki.
@Popular @Michael you still around
@waffles Yes
With meta privilege wikis, we are trying to keep them generic
the idea is to use them as the base wiki for all sites in the network
Ok. Can we add in specific stuff after they're copied?
Yerp, but we will wait 1-2 weeks for everything to stabalize
4:44 AM
Ok, thanks
totally random, Gap has a new logo, have you seen it?
@waffles, did anything ever happen with this?
Q: Type to find user should maintain the sort order selected

wafflesFind as you type user feature always sorts on name. I find it a bit confusing that the sort order is swapped without me asking for it. If I am sorting on popularity it should also sort on popularity. For an added bonus, when the user filter box is cleared, the paging numbers should re-appear a...

We are following a template ... building these see: meta.stackoverflow.com/privileges/close-questions
@rchern ... nope ... I submitted that before I started working for SO :)
The tags page was fixed, but now both the tags and users page don't follow sorting
I'll sort it
4:46 AM
@Jin You're referring to the one on their site? (I just went to look now)
who likes the new one?
A: Filtering tags by name only lets you view them by popularity.

Jeff AtwoodOK, we now subsort by the tab you're on. Funny, it's been this way for almost 1 1/2 years and nobody noticed, I guess.

@Jin Nope
/me noticed! (;
4:48 AM
I think both logos are very boring.
@Jin I don't like it personally, I don't get why the p has a glow...also it reminds me of another logo, but I can't figure out which one.
Time to pour through the map looking for your favorite website!
@Tim: At first glance it reminded me of a goodwill logo, but now I'm thinking more of an MSDN logo or something.
@rchern ... can not get distracted ... trying to go live with "privileges" tonight :)
4:49 AM
@Jin - crap
ok i'm just doing a lil survey here. was having a debate with some designer friends about this... so I thought i'd ask non design people
@Jin Did your designer friends like the new one?
the .eu site is still classic. That new logo will date fast.
@waffles, then don't pop into the lounge for the question i wanna ask there (; hehehe
4:50 AM
I dislike the new gap ... it seems too "techie" to me
so yeah i totally had a "someone on the internet is wrong!" moment tonight..
Wait, what does "go live" mean?
have finalish.. copies of the wikis and enable notifications when you get new privileges
@Jin Why not turn the entire world into a Dribble Showcase?
4:51 AM
@Dexter Heh, Goodwill is a good one. I don't think that was what I was thinking though
Damn. I fail at helping as much as intended then
@YiJiang I think he's just being a contrarian, such a hipster thing to do for designers.
@Tim Not so much the face, but the colors and the very boring fonts. hscmd.org/images/content//logos/Goodwill_logo_Web.jpg
I will from this day forward associate Gap with Goodwill!
to me a logo obviously doesn't mean anything if the brand sucks. and the brand only matters if the company provides good service or products.
4:54 AM
@AidenBell ha
Just for you
Why has "Hi" gotten 7 upvotes?
6 hours ago, by balpha
People, you need to get your starring priorities straight. We've had "hi", "(:" and "LOL" tonight. What's the outside world going to think?
You realize I was the first person to star "hi"
4:55 AM
@Chacha102 No, wasn't there when it did
I wonder if the Mathematics.se chatroom's going to support tex equations
@Chacha102 This does not surprise me (;
@Jin The funny part is that there's a good reason to be upset about a poor design. If I were a Gap shareholder, I'd be really annoyed if they spent money changing all of their existing advertising and stores, only to find out that the logo was terrible and ineffective and had to be changed again.
@rchern You know if I star my own post, for a moment in time it was pinned :)
@Chacha102 if you star your own post, you'll go blind.
@jin I already have...
4:59 AM
I'll tell Balpha to implement that feature...
hehe, nice one
@Jin Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
@YiJiang Antidisestablishmentarianism
Dang it... who called @MarcGravell in here...
@Tim they totally should have kept it as gap.stackexchange.com !
@JeffAtwood Too? Any more mods and people might think this place is going to actually be moderated...
5:07 AM
@JeffAtwood But that would have been good for their search ranking, and their site offends my eyes!
(returns with coffee and a yawn) - oh, right; yeah, ta....
If I need help finding a drupal module, is that a question that would be appropriate on any StackExchange/Overflow site?
@JoeMako Pro Webmasters?
@JoeMako No! Go start a Area51 proposal and wait 6 to 8 weeks for it to get started and then ask your question :P
possibly webmasters if you are in control of the site, like a webmaster
5:09 AM
@Chacha102 lmao
@all , Thank you
We need @all support. That way I can make a bot to come in and make everyone's browser beep at the same time
@AidenBell I only mentioned it because I thought it was funny
@joe I recommend phrasing your question in terms of "what I want to accomplish" vs. "I am looking for a drupal module." (and, if it's on webmasters, I assume you control the website in question)
5:11 AM
hey @Jeff or @Marc, could i get some help with a migrated question and user association if either of you have a minute.
So anyone else here nerdy enough to want to go to BlizzCon?
Just got my tickets via email this morning. Can't wait
@Chacha102 It's right before a deadline...Plus Blizzard owes me several years of my life back from when I used to play Diablo II on Battle.net.
@rchern sure - spawned a side-room
I play Wow. Used to play Biable II
4 messages moved to The Trash Heap
I am desperately trying to edit these privilege wikis
5:16 AM
I really like the idea behind those
Although, the wiki should probably be locked at some point and merged to the other sites
that's the goal
Weird that you can star system messages, like that Four messages moved to the Trash Heap one
@JeffAtwood Do you mind if we steal stuff from the FAQ?
The Community FAQ to be exact
maybe, I have a template.
<that part can have some more context, and protips>
I think the root problem is that writing is hard
@JeffAtwood One thing is that powers build ontop of each other
Edit Community Wiki and Create Community Wiki are almost the same
They both talk about CW, so are we suppose to do all of those for both?
5:24 AM
I don't know. I'm starting at the top and working down.
I am currently on "edit all"
Then I'll work up, and at some point I'll start overwriting you.. :P
@JeffAtwood I thought it was naming that was hard!
picking a domain name is impossible
naming is "just" hard
the blog post says everything I want to say about that
I tire of naming angst.. I just want to ASK QUESTIONS and GET ANSWERS
5:26 AM
imagine there was a (; with that comment.
at some point it's just a distraction from the core mission
but, "explain in one sentence what your site is about!" is WAYYYY better -- far more useful and constructive
Thank you Brian R. Bondy!!
I think there is a name for that
7 hours ago, by The Unhandled Exception
@Moshe OK cool. @balpha: Feature request: solve the issue that emotion isn't always conveyed correctly in a text-based chat
@JeffAtwood Why do I see a bunch of grey bars next to all of the privileges?
@Chacha102 They're progress bars
5:32 AM
progress bars
@Chacha102, when in doubt, hover
@rchern Of course, emotion isn't always conveyed correctly in face-to-face conversation. We have merely created chat as a reflection of reality. But a reality with emphasis that is easier to standardise. Except for backwards smileys - we still can't make sense of them.
Ah, and I guess I've usurped them before implementation lol
backwards smileys are the way of the future! (:
does anyone else do backwards smileys? I've never seen it before.
5:34 AM
@JeffAtwood And people aren't always even good with that, either...I'm on the fence about committing to an Area 51 proposal because they defined themselves using the proposal topic, which doesn't remove the ambiguity, heh.
me neither
@MarcGravell Why hasn't The Trash Heap been frozen yet?
yes, people do.
@MarcGravell Is it just by pure luck that I've migrated stuff over there just often enough that it doesn't get frozen?
5:36 AM
I'll check. @balpha would know the cutoffs (but isn't around yet) - I'll take a short moment to investigate.
@YiJiang Is that where the Superuser logo comes from?
how can a moment be short? ):
@Chacha102 Technically that should be a dot, but they don't allow <sup> tags here
@YiJiang how's that name change of yours coming along?
5:39 AM
@JeffAtwood I think I'll change it to SO Hates Short Names
@rchern - if it fits in the range -32,768 to 32,767
@YiJiang At least the chat name autocomplete is kind to you
we can have punctuation in display names right?
maybe someday i shall become (:
Now if we could just reprogram everyone else..
5:40 AM
I'm filing a bug against Yi Jiang. "name too short [bug]"
@MarcGravell I was going to go with "If you interrupt its thread", but I stopped myself
jin yang is even shorter...
ah, the blessed THREE character name
@JeffAtwood I tried to make the tag 'bug' a synonym of 'feature-request' the other day...
@JeffAtwood as in WIN
5:41 AM
I mean, this is just common sense. Names must be 3 characters. duh.
hmmm, i'd have to be (-: instead of (:
@JeffAtwood It's 易江 actually
@rchern ☺
@YiJiang 今朝
5:43 AM
@JeffAtwood Eh?
@MarcGravell, but that'd only be 1 character, not 3 ):
@JeffAtwood you totally cheated with copy+paste
you probably tricked me into putting "LONG NAME PEOPLE ARE DUMB" up there, didn't you? :)
5:44 AM
feature request: whenever muffincat is pasted into chat (which, lets face it, it is a lot), make chat scroll to the bottom of the image
I think it's because chat doesn't know the size of the image until it is loaded
@JeffAtwood Since you've got a max-height of 300px set, why not just "reserve" 300px for them?
I need to get new demotivational posters..
protip: shift+tab , shift+space {multiple} then just start typing
5:46 AM
@JeffAtwood and you're letting a silly little thing like this get in your way? q:
@yi the way we "reserve" 3 characters for your first name perhaps? :)
@JeffAtwood Chinese isn't that concise... 名字长的人很笨
@JeffAtwood Eventually you are going to be telling us we need 4 letter names like yours! When will this madness end!!!
Google translate brilliantly turns that line into "Stupid long names of people"
all i have to say is, it's like cheating to type Chinese on twitter. you can write a novel with one tweet...
5:49 AM
@Chacha102 Don't give him ideas! I might have to stop being lazy and edit my profile.
Also, I'd like to make a Public Service Announcement: We need more people to star this message chat.meta.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/218832#218832
Bah, that PSA is less interesting than the last PSA which was less interesting than the PSA before it.
@Chacha102, you should probably just pin it.
Hey @MarcGravell I found a bug for you...
5:51 AM
I go to chat.meta.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/218832#218832 and I only have the unpin dialogue, however all the stars and pins have been removed.
making work for me, eh?
I think balpha found a bug like that a week or two ago. Dont know what happened
@MarcGravell, question sorted - thanks for your help.
Hmmm... technically it still has star votes; I wonder if it is getting confused over which to display.
(for example, it knows if you've already starred it)
I'll look
5:53 AM
@MarcGravell Then shouldn't I be able to unpin/cancel the stars?
Nothing happens when I press unpin.. so
@MarcGravell Thanks :)
we need badges for chat. most feature requests, most bugs reported
oh, I removed all stars against that "hi"
@JeffAtwood The problem is that now the dialogue is getting confused
first, I take away your names.. then, I take away your "hi" stars..
next, I come for your children.
In my defense, they are delicious.
5:56 AM
Dang it .. that didn't stop him from talking..
did you just do something that made chat refresh?
the window refreshed like i switched rooms...except it stayed on this room.
@JeffAtwood, just leave my smileys alone! :)
5:57 AM
@rchern I could make the room refresh again...
but that would be an abuse of power, so you wouldn't...
Refreshing ...It feels wrong. Dirty even.
Right now I'm abusing my power. I have Gallery Mode on :)
Which apparently only impacted the innocent :P
5:59 AM
I have almost all of you on Explicit Write anyway..
I'm inverting all smilies I see, in a rampant, flagrant abuse of power
@Jeff, go easy with those find and replaces...
@JeffAtwood Stop messing with my tavern...
6:00 AM
...that really is quite annoying @Chacha102
@rchern That was Jeff..
I am your friend, we must all band together against our common enemy, the chacha
@rchern Or some other Mod.
What's the rolls-eyes emoticon
6:00 AM
@Chacha102, no dice.
/blame @Chacha102
Jeff just doesn't like that I'm the owner of the most popular Chat Room on SE
hmmm... I'm thinking maybe changes to the overall room security should add evidence (like the system message when you move messages)
Hm, maybe we should feature request /blame makes angry, bold red text that fires div projectiles at the user's gravatar
eh, you do abuse the power quite a bit @Chacha102 to be honest |:
6:06 AM
I admit defeat
I am a big man! I can take it! (but, I will resent you.)
Is there a technical reason that latest activity for a Community bumped question is 'today'? Thinking about a feature-request to change that but thought it might need to be that way.
@waffles cool
technical no ... but why would you want it any other way ?
because it isn't real activity. you can't click to get the latest activity because the community bump supersedes it. and most importantly, maybe i'd stop spending 10 minutes scrolling through looking for the damn updated only to then realize it wasn't real activity!
6:14 AM
Yeah I think long term we want to look at a better mechanism for giving old questions love.
Speaking of question activity...
How does that happen?
(Given that there's no noticeable activity)
retag spree?
oh, i see.
Yeah, sorry, I should type in complete thoughts. :P
is that picture from just now? or 3 days ago?
Three days ago sounds right, I had meant to ask about it and then forgot.
6:21 AM
(latest activity says 3 days)
so he is deleting his posts, then editing them to remove the content. to what end?
nothing in the timeline that i can see either
i can't see deleted stuff on SO. guess that would explain it
@JeffAtwood Ah ha. Normally I would have figured deletion, but it seemed like far too many questions.
@JeffAtwood - I will sometimes delete and remove, when the answer given was 100% retarded or I miss-read the question. Shame ultimately.
Answers that is
alright, since i probably can't convince any of you to go to work for me in the morning, i'm off to bed. nite.
6:25 AM
@rchern Unfortunately I'm still trying to convince myself to do my own work..G'night.
6:56 AM
Hello *

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