Tavern on the Meta

00:04

@M.A.R. ⬛

M.A.R.

06:23

You can edit (change) your question (but *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** without *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** "Edit:", "Update:", or similar - the question should appear as if it was written right now). — This_is_NOT_a_forum 14 hours ago

Trying to decide what he's saying in all those asterisks

Journeyman Geek On Strike

06:36

@M.A.R. Better you don't know

that is a sure path to madness

Meta Andrew T.

06:52

Maybe the asterisk automatically increases by one every time the script is used

Meta Andrew T.

07:12

> You're linking to the site banners instead of the homepage :p - source

That's a good tactic to prevent the user from reposting the question on there

Journeyman Geek On Strike

lol

I normally assume they do know (and have accounts there) and are trying to get around a qban, or made a mistake

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

07:45

@KarlKnechtel question bans.

Being too nice is bad idea, and saying something like "If you are question banned on other site it's wrong to post here" is totally legit and helpful.

If some think otherwise, so be it.

Some also think downvotes should not exist, questions must never be closed, etc. Pity, but can't do anything about it.

Journeyman Geek On Strike

I'd think closing their question should send enough of a message, as does commenting...

if that fails, some people try twice with the same question or keep doing it and... well there's negative reinforcement methods that work there

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike no, if there is account on the correct site, not new, it's likely question banned, and some people might think it's legit to just ask their questions on MSE.

Journeyman Geek On Strike

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack No real way to check other than trying to migrate it

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

So saying it's not might explain the situation and prevent further attempts.

Journeyman Geek On Strike

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack hence the comments

Some people STILL keep at it

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

07:49

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike that's why it's "If you're question banned on X".

Journeyman Geek On Strike

shrug

We can lead a horse to water... :D

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike then drink its water? ;)

Journeyman Geek On Strike

If the horse insists on drinking vodka, I can't do anything.

that's literally right there when you ask a question

It dosen't say "you can ask anything" or "if you're question banned..."

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

@M.A.R. he's using automated tools/script/whatever, looks like one of them gone whacky. Here is a proper comment from the tool when it still worked:

You can edit (change) your question - to express the original intent (without "Edit:", "Update:", or similar - the question should appear as if it was written today). There isn't any need to comment - just edit, please. — Peter Mortensen Nov 30, 2021 at 15:17

Expected to check what he's writing, but meh... just comments.

Journeyman Geek On Strike

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack that's essentially a forum or a message board :D

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

07:57

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike and many consider SE to be one, including old time and high rep users.

Journeyman Geek On Strike

clearly they have not been paying attention

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

One even said clearly "I'll use whatever terms I want, edit it if you want".

Journeyman Geek On Strike

11:49

github.com/mdn/yari/issues/9230

and I thought meta's a tough crowd

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

12:25

Well that's their meta, and it looks like even more of a lost battle there. ;/

Journeyman Geek On Strike

12:43

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack actually developer.mozilla.org/en-US/blog/ai-explain-postmortem

I think they did ok

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike oh. Good for them! :D

And hello @Eleeze!

How was your driving lesson?

M.A.R.

13:27

So

Been a while since the CEO AI frenzy. Is it paying off?

I mean, they do like the layoffs I bet.

But in terms of shoving AI down users' throats in every platform and format imaginable, is it driving traffic?

I'm not even sure if I'm asking that right. My most tech savvy moment is when I recognize what a floppy disk is.

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack silence. Have to assume the worst

I had this huge sweater in a tiny car, and I couldn't fasten my seatbelt. I almost failed.

What saved me was the guy before me sucked even more. That and my awesome parking skills no doubt.

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

@M.A.R. it's a disk that flops. duh

@M.A.R. driving 100mph with the teacher trying to stop her? ;)

@M.A.R. hehe, happened to me a lot with my kids, when they were in a baby seat and had coats.... no can do, only wife could somehow squeeze them into place. :P

Personally I take off any extra layer (i.e. not a shirt) when getting into a car.

Journeyman Geek On Strike

@M.A.R. Its driving engagement, if by engagement you mean spam

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack that's unsafe

Driving too fast never killed anyone. Slowing down to safe speeds too enthusiastically on the other hand...

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

@M.A.R. CEO of SE, or in general over the internet? Friend of mine who know SE (but doesn't take part) said that he's sure the Q&A model (not only SE) is doomed already, people won't have any reason to browse specific sites when they can ask AI anything and get the best results, without all the hassle.

M.A.R.

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike well, I'm assuming they're not stupid, and they know that's a bad thing in the not-so-longterm, unless almost every company is gonna cash out and tank and we're back to sticks and stones

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike same as pointers! And yet, they exist. :D

Journeyman Geek On Strike

13:39

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack You need better friends

:D

M.A.R.

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack so more like a cycle of people thinking that and going back to the Q/A format in a decade or so.

And I thought Journey was the Buddha here

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike but he is better! :D

@M.A.R. of course, but SE can't put itself into deep freeze for a decade. ;)

Something has to be done to power all those lights.

Company cage must be kept safe in Nick's basement.

Etc.

M.A.R.

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack the internet in general, I mean, now the talk was about Mozilla, and I know dreamy startup techies love hallucinating about a chatty AI money machine that doesn't form unions and doesn't strike

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

@M.A.R. heh, well that friend of mine happens to work with a company that actually use GenAI for long time. They used it in the past to create app that make filters on images, now they're harnessing the power of ChatGPT4 to add filters to video. Imagine whole video where someone has a cat on his head. (cat added by the filter ;))

So for them, ChatGPT is a blessing! Cats can't be wrong.

Journeyman Geek On Strike

I'd put it another way - there's probably tasks genAI should be good for, but what we do here very much relies on (a small group of?) experts or petty dabblers creating content they believe is useful

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

13:49

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike yeah, the friend told me that in the near future the AI will be "smart" enough to pick only the correct answers and would become reliable, I don't agree but it was late and we had better things to do anyway. :D

Journeyman Geek On Strike

Hah

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

He even showed me his Steam Deck!

Steam Deck

The Steam Deck is a handheld gaming computer developed by Valve and released on February 25, 2022. The device uses Valve's Linux distribution SteamOS, which incorporates the namesake Steam storefront. SteamOS uses Valve's Proton compatibility layer, allowing users to run Windows applications and games. In addition to handheld use, the Steam Deck can be connected to a TV or monitor through a docking station and be used like a desktop computer or home video game console. In desktop mode, users can install Linux-based third-party applications. == History == Valve's Steam Machine series of ga...

He says the fact it's Linux and yet run Windows games smoothly is no less than magic. lol

M.A.R.

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack that's missing like 90% of the point.

Journeyman Geek On Strike

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack I'll settle for "Understanding basic english and retriving information"

and the 3 magic words

"I don't know"

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

14:06

@M.A.R. which part? The being smart enough?

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike sadly, that's not something ChatGPT appears to say. lol

Journeyman Geek On Strike

chatgpt isn't really more than a 'toy'

on the bright side, there was this other chatbot that apparently talked someone into trying to kill the queen

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike good! Hope they accused its creator in attempted murder? ;)

Journeyman Geek On Strike

nope!

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

Wait, what queen?

Ants? Bees?

Journeyman Geek On Strike

theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jul/06/…

Of england

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

14:09

oh

Journeyman Geek On Strike

Before she died of, well the ultimate form of unavoidable regicide. Old age

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

But she died anyway. :(

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike yup

M.A.R.

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack that the perfect AI is one that gets the correct answer.

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

@M.A.R. oh, people don't care. When coming to SO they only want answer.

And if they can get that answer without even coming to SO, why bother?

Journeyman Geek On Strike

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack an answer, or an answer they know works?

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

14:12

Now they still realize it's probably not a very good answer, but that might change, according to my friend. Personally, I'm more sceptic.

M.A.R.

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack that's true for a lot of questions, but untrue for many more

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike see above ^^

Journeyman Geek On Strike

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack "great"AI would be invisible

more intellitype than co-pilot

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

@M.A.R. well, most people won't care until the wrong answer they got will get them fired. ;)

(or things start crashing)

Journeyman Geek On Strike

Or Kills someone :D

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

14:13

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike or destroy some small countries.... :D

M.A.R.

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack again, true in some cases, not so in more

We should draw Venn diagrams

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

@M.A.R. of course, some people still care, but that's not enough to sustain SO.

@M.A.R. pity SE disabled the easter egg. :(

M.A.R.

What easter egg

Journeyman Geek On Strike

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack I'd argue that the people who care are what could sustain SO

and what SO dosen't understand/value as much

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

@M.A.R. way to make Venn diagram to appear in About pages.

M.A.R.

14:16

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack that's just numbers and stuff. Perceptions can change on what good numbers look like. The current bloated SO we have IRL though? I suppose

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike I mean visits. Not enough visits. Not enough money to justify the existence of SO as living business.

Journeyman Geek On Strike

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack People visit cause of the content, or cause well, they're producing content

SE grew cause it took care of the latter

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike but the point is, this content will become available elsewhere, in easier way, without having to look for it, or (god forbid) ask for it. ;)

Journeyman Geek On Strike

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack or the contents somewhere whose provinence you know

M.A.R.

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack AIs are leeches though. Who's gonna produce the content they leech from when, say, Python 6 is out?

I'm no programmer but I'm assuming the docs are never informative enough

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

14:20

@M.A.R. you mean that without new questions, there won't be new answers to ~~steal~~ crawl? Yeah, that's true.

M.A.R.

In my own field, heh, interpreting primary sources is a skill humans haven't mastered so there's no hope of AI ever getting it right unless it becomes makes a ward against evil AGI

And human healthcare workers will never trust AI to trust itself to treat diseases

Sure, you can get some diagnostic tool to 99.9% sensitivity and specificity with AI, but the person making the diagnosis will always be carbon-based.

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

@M.A.R. we'll see.... :(

hmm spammer on the roll, without the parrot around, this will make MSE front page dirty for a long while.

(nobody is there to flag as well.)

Journeyman Geek On Strike

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack Apparently that damned dirty ape was taken care of while I was adding it to santa's naughty list

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

hah, surprising. Maybe some hidden CM. ;)

Only two? Thought they posted three spam answers already. Oh well, premature panic. :P

Journeyman Geek On Strike

three

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

14:34

oh lol one in -26 scored question so didn't see it. :D

How it even finds the questions to spam?

Journeyman Geek On Strike

RNG? picked popular ones? Read tea leaves? Mock Chicken Entrails?

DavidPostill

16:47

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike Erm, that's not quite correct ...

M.A.R.

17:19

@DavidPostill like, you know how people die when their brain stops working? Here's an idea: What if they didn't make the brain stop working, right? Like, solve a sudoku in your head or something!

I might have unlocked the secret to immortality

frantically solves puzzles in the head

Sonic the Anonymous Hedgehog

17:39

@Tinkeringbell @Glorfindel Can one of you please edit the revision history link in meta.stackexchange.com/questions/71820/… from meta.stackoverflow.com to meta.stackexchange.com? The post was historically locked before the MSO-MSE split, and the Community user didn't edit now-broken revision history links to point to the new domain, so it'd be nice to have the link fixed.

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

18:02

If any CM is around, there is cross network troll on the roll on MSE, remember seeing them pop from time to time.

At least no rabbit involved this time.

@M.A.R. which of your heads?

Journeyman Geek On Strike

18:26

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack thankfully

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