Tavern on the Meta

00:13

@JNat I've always figured if feedback will always be ignored (as in not read) as opposed to (other things being more important so) not being acted on there's no point to feedback at all :D cc:@ShadowWizardStrikesBack

@PM2Ring Its also a common pattern/antipattern for avoiding adblock

Journeyman Geek On Strike

00:26

@SPArcheon Then someone posts it as truth, and we get 'rabbits eat carrots'

Journeyman Geek On Strike

00:47

@KevinB Within reason, that's not a bad high level goal :D

Nothing wrong with keeping warm, the question is what you're burning to do it

Journeyman Geek On Strike

01:07

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack those openAI subs are not going to pay for themselves... :D

Advertising is a big chunk of SE's revenue, and while they've been really enlightened about adblock use, this is probably an audience that uses more of it

Feeds

04:44

stackoverflow.blog/2023/07/04/…

Meta Andrew T.

05:06

@Feeds yes.

Journeyman Geek On Strike

05:21

I mean

if you're company is obsessed with keeping up and buys all the AI crap, you're going to use it ... :D

though we're in the "Oh look! The stupid robot drove into the lake" stage

hm

arstechnica.com/gadgets/2023/07/… might potentially affect some posts like the imgur thing did

M.A.R.

05:38

@Feeds wow no sh*t Sherlock

Journeyman Geek On Strike

So if even marketing realises that the AI hype isn't trusted... maybe its time to lean into being the trusted, if a little grumpy source of truth? :D

"We may close your questions but we will never ~~lie~~ hallucinate to you"

Also - I wonder how they're going to spin this

Pet Linux

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack oh, Discord is rewriting names of users from username#XXXX to username. So the ID may be invalid later. Just for info. ;)

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

07:35

@PetLinux I know, can't change to username because forgot my password, and too lazy to look into it and reset. :D

Pet Linux

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack But... Discord should itself suggest to change it. ;)

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

@KevinB probably!

@PetLinux it did. It let me do it. Then after wasting few minutes of my time, it asks for the password as the final step.

Pet Linux

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack hmm... weird. It didn't ask me for a password :D

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

@PetLinux you're special.

Journeyman Geek On Strike

You're sus

:D

Pet Linux

07:37

8D

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

9D

Pet Linux

10D

:-D

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike oh, they read. Or being told by someone underneath who read. But in my opinion, there it ends.

Journeyman Geek On Strike

11E

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack Its the same then :D

I complain cause there's the faintest hope of change

Maybe even...

Holding Out For A Hero (from Shrek 2) 【covered by Anna】

►

Holding out for a Hero :D

But the belief that things can change - eventually and folks here are interacting with the intent of trying to change things where possible seems more .. positive than well

"Things will never change. ABANDON YE ALL HOPE! AND DISPAIR!"

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike well, maybe in this specific case of new ads @JNat is correct and it's somehow dodging management restrictions, in which case we might have actual impact. But overall, in the "big things", what you said is sadly very true.

Journeyman Geek On Strike

07:45

You do I have a very BIG list of big things I'd like chaging

And I'm still at least a little hopeful over many of them

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike good... for you. ;)

Journeyman Geek On Strike

and I do realise there's times to be critical or realistic about some things - but negativity kinda is well, kinda wears on ya

SPArcheon

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike Akira Fudo?

Pet Linux

Watch:

in Shadow's Den, 1 min ago, by PetlinBOT

~
DialoGPT: I'm not sure what you're trying to say.
Satvikag: Cool! How did you do in it?
Blenderbot: Do you have any pets? I have a dog named Oreo. He's a rescue dog.

XD

The bot conspiracy

Journeyman Geek On Strike

@SPArcheon The anna pantsu cover of the shreck 2 cover of the bonnie tyler song

SPArcheon

08:01

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike No, I was asking if we should wait for Akira.

Journeyman Geek On Strike

that sounds wierdly like the alternate reallity Tina Turner version I swear I heard as a teenager

@SPArcheon in which case... who?

SPArcheon

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike If you don't know the name then it is probably for the better if you don't look it up.

A character from a manga. Same author of Mazinger and Getter Robot.

only this one is a tad more violent.

Pet Linux

A pigsty of bots:

in Shadow's Den, 1 min ago, by PetlinBOT

~
DialoGPT: I'm not sure what you mean by that. Do you mean the 39th anniversary?
Satvikag: I'm not sure either.
Blenderbot: Who is Jagsy?

SPArcheon

10:28

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike also... I have to ask... that is the singer name?

Pet Linux

10:39

in Shadow's Den, 43 secs ago, by PetlinBOT

Emma: I'm sorry, I don't speak Japanese.
Ethan: What is nitro?
Lucas: Do you like Johnny Hnno? He is an American singer, songwriter, and actor.

a pigsty extending.

Journeyman Geek On Strike

11:18

@SPArcheon Anna Pantsu :D

No relation to our current troll of the month

She was a random youtube suggestion and I was like "Wait, this is..."

SPArcheon

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike .... Is she supposed to be a distant cousin of Dragon Ball's Bulma? -_-

Journeyman Geek On Strike

@SPArcheon don't think so

She just tends to use fanart/fan animations of her online persona (as a redhead) in her videos

SPArcheon

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike I was talking about the name, not the art.

Seems to follow the same trend shared by Bulma family in that manga / anime

What can I say... if she is happy, who am I to nitpick?

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

Who is happy?

SPArcheon

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack see the preceding messages.

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

11:28

Messages don't look very happy. :D

hmm maybe I can help them?

Done!

Now they're happy.

Pet Linux

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack :D

Journeyman Geek On Strike

@SPArcheon ah no idea then :D

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

Well the name itself is... interesting... :D

> Pantsu is a loan word for "panties", rather than trousers.

SPArcheon

11:45

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack That is why I mentioned Bulma from Dragonball.

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

I know. ;)

Pet Linux

12:02

I had a dream that I seen a down vote button on comments. So be it...

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

@PetLinux sure it was a dream?

:P

Pet Linux

12:23

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack oh, I remember that comment. ;)

SPArcheon

so, the storm should be starting soon right?

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

@PetLinux :)

Pet Linux

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack This was my first steps on English-language sites :)

Elements in Space

12:41

@SPArcheon What is that about?

SPArcheon

-128

Q: Are you interested in Prompt Design? Join the Community Stakeholders group

Introducing the Community Stakeholders Group We're excited to invite you to join the Community Stakeholders group for our new Prompt Design Stack Exchange site. (Please read the linked post first for more information about the site and its planned launch process.) This group will be crucial to th...

> How will I know if I am selected?
Please have your submission in by the end of the day on July 4th UTC time. We will update this post on July 5th, 2023 to announce who has been selected and then formally invite them into the various spaces to begin work.

consider this: the original comments are now removed but we already had some name-calling from users mad that other users nominated themselves.

I expect a mess

Especially since the strike has not ended... and to be fair I don't even know if there are sign of it going anywhere forward recently.

Elements in Space

@SPArcheon Oh right, that thing. I'll get my raincoat.

Pet Linux

@SPA take your 10

SPArcheon

apparently it should at least be "public"

No secret agreements, like the announcement, say we will be pretty transparent about everything. If the group wants to develop its own house rules, we are open to it as long as it's not in conflict with the CoC or any other policy. Thats a good critique of the naming; we only tossed around a few different names and settled on that one, but if the group wishes to change its name that's fine too. — SpencerG ♦ Jun 23 at 12:36

Tinkeringbell

I'm almost tempted to go throw my own hat in the ring there. Just because one of the nominees now also has been posting this and I find most of those a really, really bad idea. For the first block that were first posted in the question, most of those are 'write my prompt for me' which is luckily already said to be off-topic.

From the newly added second block of examples though, that 'third one' about using AI to cheat on an assignment should be forbidden as unethical usage, not something to like :/

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

12:58

@ElementsinSpace towel is better. ;)

Elements in Space

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack I meant metaphorically, I don't actually have a raincoat.

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

@ElementsinSpace huh! How odd. Everyone should have a raincoat.

:D

SPArcheon

@Tinkeringbell I also love the fact that it is about ChatGPT, ChatGPT, ChatGPT ChatGPT and ChatGPT. Oh, and ChatGPT too, I almost forgot that.

@ElementsinSpace I think he was referencing the Hitchhiker's Guide

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

13:17

@SPArcheon you're not wrong. :D

Journeyman Geek On Strike

13:44

@Tinkeringbell If I was feeling malicous, I'd turn it into Jamie.stackexchange :D

(jamie being the infamous government run chatbot :D )

Tinkeringbell

@SPArcheon Eh, I don't know about that. Some of the volunteers seem to have at least also used other things.

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike Hmm. Might actually be a nice change :P

Journeyman Geek On Strike

13:59

@Tinkeringbell I'd be trolling, and they're retiring her for the next generation of chatbots

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

her? Female bot?

PM 2Ring

I suspect that it will be really hard to prevent people from posting 'write my prompt for me' questions, and that no matter what they do that a sizeable proportion of questions will be 'write my prompt for me' questions.

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

oh here she is.

Her eyes are almost fine.

Journeyman Geek On Strike

I think they used a real person as a model :D

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

oops. Sorry, the real human Jamie! ;)

Journeyman Geek On Strike

14:12

todayonline.com/singapore/…

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

LOL

Well, practice of safe sex is indeed very important.

Journeyman Geek On Strike

She does predate this GenAI fad tho

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

Yeah, some crude chatbot, was it even based on machine learning?

PM 2Ring

Many people perceive bots with female voices and personas to be more friendly. medium.com/the-no%C3%B6sphere/…

Journeyman Geek On Strike

\o/

They are apparently replacing her with a 'new' chatbot

the govtech version's apparently an anime girl called Emi?

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

14:16

@PM2Ring human instinct.

First thing baby see and hear, usually, is the mother.

This is fine, though I'm sure there are women who get upset by that.

Tinkeringbell

@PM2Ring And, on meta: "How to 'prompt' my question so it isn't a 'write my prompt for me' type question but still gives the same kind of result in answers?" :P

Journeyman Geek On Strike

I'd be making fun of Jamie just as hard if it was a male chatbot

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike of course, being friendly doesn't mean being correct. ;)

Journeyman Geek On Strike

and honestly half the questions would be things like "I'm trying to find out if I can get Jamie to tell me if I can pay for my toilet sanitation fee from the Toilet Science Agency webpage. She's telling me my toilet exploded, how do I get the correct output from here?"

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

Ask on Life Hacks! :D

Journeyman Geek On Strike

14:20

(there's no such fee, or no such agency)

Yup, just as useless

SPArcheon

@Tinkeringbell well, Stack may buy my help for the site if they want. Just send me a Gatebox (the limited english speaking model) as a swag.

Journeyman Geek On Strike

also RIP Jamie, you were a terrible chatbot, but apparently your replacement is just as useless

SPArcheon

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike I assume you don't know about Microsoft Singapore, aka the best Microsoft after Microsoft Japan.

Anime Festival Asia Special Video - feat. Inori Aizawa

►

Journeyman Geek On Strike

@SPArcheon I can't even blame drugs for that

SPArcheon

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike that is an official Internet Explorer ads

Journeyman Geek On Strike

14:27

Not even drugs. :D

SPArcheon

this was an old Windows 7 one

[ENG SUBBED] Windows 7 Madobe Nanami Commercial

►

Azure too...

Azure Nihon Datacenter (Claudia Madobe) Commercial [4K 60FPS AI Remastered]

►

there was also a manga...

AND A FIGURE!

SPArcheon

14:46

if this sword looks strange.... that's because it is an ice cream.

and this is not a perspective trick.

It actually measures about 45cm.

eat it fast, before it melts.

Journeyman Geek On Strike

hm.

It should be cheese flavoured.

A ... sharp.. cheddar

SPArcheon

kuzu

Journeyman Geek On Strike

@SPArcheon bless you

that's an odd sound for a sneeze tho

SPArcheon

and be glad it is not konjaku with anko filling

.... or at least I hope it is not

Journeyman Geek On Strike

@SPArcheon hm, I like red bean filling

Those chinese buns with the filling were one of the four things I actually liked about military food

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

15:03

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike well, atchoo was away.

@SPArcheon actually, no need:

> The edible sword will add even more excitement for visitors, and because it’s made with a hard ice cream that doesn’t melt easily, you’ll have plenty of time to make your way down the blade without making a mess.

Jeremy is looking...

Which reminds me for some reason, hey @g3rv4 how are you? :)

SPArcheon

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack now, considering that you probably have found the same site, on the first page you should also find an idiotic use of image generation.

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

@SPArcheon meh, didn't pay much attention and yeah, that was the only site in English with that "sword". ;)

Unless you mean the image of the sword itself isn't real?

SPArcheon

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack no, that is a site that collects news from Japan. If you browse all the news on the first page there is something about AI generate pictures that is really really really idiotic.

I won't post it here for obvious reasons.

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

15:36

@SPArcheon oh, let me see...

ah that's where you found that Japanese tea as well, but can't see what you mean.

JNat

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike which is not the case here, right?

d'you see the update I just made to the post, @ShadowWizardStrikesBack? out of curiosity

Journeyman Geek On Strike

16:09

@JNat it's yet to be seen

And I am a little more optimistic than @ShadowWizardStrikesBack that we are heard 🤣

JNat

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike lol but I'm telling you it is being read and discussed. And literally, if you go see the post, it has also already had an impact

Journeyman Geek On Strike

In general!

I would not be feeding back otherwise

@JNat and in this case I like what I see

SPArcheon

16:25

I suppose that "they will be static pictures hosted directly by our network" is still an unrealistic dream.

Journeyman Geek On Strike

@SPArcheon better

Text only

Which is the least obnoxious form of advertising

SPArcheon

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike I am fine with pictures, I just don't want them to come from MalwareAdvertising.vir

@JNat Just wondering, this is not a joke at all. Has the company ever considered that it would probably be far easier (and far less hated by the users) if instead of focusing ads on SO you tried other sites?

Like, I don't think users on Arqade would be mad if they saw some ads for recent games directly from the developing company.

JNat

@SPArcheon our whole sales org is focused on devs and tech in general

it'd require a whole different person to sell ads that are relevant to the cooking site

SPArcheon

@JNat well, if I may dare... that would be worth considering.

JNat

unless you wanna have programmatic ads again, which I don't think anyone does ;)

@SPArcheon that involves not only restructuring our sales org, but also our marketing strategy in general. Dunno if you think I have that kind of pull, but I don't ;P

SPArcheon

16:41

@JNat I was suggesting to just look at the low hanging blatant options. Also, not suggesting you do it, just a company level hint.

JNat

I don't see that happening

Mithical

JNat aren't you on vacation today

JNat

I am not

Journeyman Geek On Strike

@SPArcheon well yes that's why I asked about vetting

Mithical

it's not a company-wide holiday?

Journeyman Geek On Strike

16:42

@JNat eewwwwwwwwww

JNat

no, it's a US holiday only

SPArcheon

I don't know if Nintendo/Sony/etc would be interested on advertising on Arqade, but I think Arqade users would be less reticent in seeing a Zelda ads there than your average SO user seeing an ads for an online course

Journeyman Geek On Strike

@SPArcheon kinda like sponsorships are?

JNat

@SPArcheon I get your point, and I don't disagree. Just don't see it happening

Journeyman Geek On Strike

That's why I asked about it 😅

Especially since I am not very optimistic about the GenAi push

SPArcheon

16:44

@JNat I also get your reply, I was just wondering if anyone has ever mentioned that internally.

JNat

I don't know if it's been discussed internally with the folks where it might matter

Journeyman Geek On Strike

@JNat ah so... No meetings? 😁

JNat

none

it's been a quiet day xD

Journeyman Geek On Strike

You probably just jinxed it

Pet Linux

16:59

Two mods chatting!

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

17:15

@PetLinux nope

Mod and CM

Pet Linux

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack Well yes, but those CM has also moderator rights. ;)

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

@PetLinux well yes, but tons of better stuff. ;)

Secret buttons.

@JNat saw it now, yes. Hat waiting to be removed when it's out in the open. ;)

@SPArcheon SE sites e.g. Gaming aren't big/important enough for advertisers to spend money on them. It's all about amount of visitors, and SO is the only site with big enough numbers.

SPArcheon

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack and the one where no one will care about the ads too.

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

@Mithical why would they be? Same as us here, i.e. not from USA. ;)

@SPArcheon if there will be more users, some will start caring as well.

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

18:26

Heh @Sonic has an admirer!

Lightning McQueen, Radiator Springs

101 1

M.A.R.

18:47

quickly makes an account

"I admire M.A.R. He's really great, assuming that it is a he. I don't know. All I know is he's awesome."

Jason C

yo

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack how do you still hang out here; such discipline. such dedication.

Laurel

19:35

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack At least it's not Amy, otherwise we'd have problems

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

@JasonC I love you too man! :D

I just... hang around and play WAG when possible.

What about you? Any exciting news? @Jason

Alexis King

woah hi @JasonC

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

@Laurel taken already! ;)

Amy Rose, London, United Kingdom

95 1 9

python dictionary list pandas pandas-groupby max operators

Jason C

20:29

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack nothing interesting; i'm leaving nyc and moving back to pittsburgh next month. looking for jobs. that's about it.

@AlexisKing hi

trying not to get overwhelmed with anxiety about the logistics of moving lol

Alexis King

gl

I saw your RC question the other day

I don’t post on RC but I read it a lot

Jason C

i'm also admiring the weird score distribution of the last year and a half of questions on so

i dont think that SO qualifies to get out of beta any more lol

Alexis King

I don’t think I’ve participated on SO this year

Jason C

@AlexisKing oh yeah i dont know why that q got so many votes; everything on rc seems to trigger peoples nostalgia though i love that site. i also lurk there a lot.

Alexis King

I think it’s plausible that I answered a question in 2022 or something

Jason C

20:33

rc is weird because all the stuff i remember even as a teenager is retro now

Alexis King

okay I checked and apparently the last post I made on SO was in 2021

but I sure answered a lot of blender stack exchange questions in 2022 lol

Jason C

lol

Alexis King

however they made a new website specifically to bait me back in (programming languages stack exchange)

Jason C

oh sweet

Alexis King

you should vote for me for moderator :)

Jason C

20:35

i think they should split so into web, mobile, and desktop programming, just to lighten the question load.

ok are there elections now

Alexis King

yah

I’ve hit rep cap every day since I’ve joined except one lol

there’s still time left today!!

Jason C

i can't vote unless i get 50 points in the next week

Alexis King

I would say “it’s easy just ask yet another question about programming language syntax and it will hit HNQ” but I actually really wish people would stop doing this

after getting fed up with these questions I posted this answer

10

A: Why do most languages use the same token for `EndIf`, `EndWhile`, `EndFunction` and `EndStructure`?

The reason most languages use } is C did it that way.

and it still got +10 lmao

Jason C

lol

its a valid answer

Alexis King

I feel like SE needs to increase the PLDI HNQ penalty or something

idk how we seem to have three questions in HNQ at all times

Jason C

20:40

nobody really addresses why } and not e.g. ], lol.

Alexis King

there is no good reason!!

these questions all suck

Jason C

the latest question about expressiveness is either impossible to answer or will have a really awesome answer

Alexis King

oh I actually have a really good answer I can write for that

there’s a paper by Matthias Felleisen that answers that precise question

Jason C

see

itll be an awesome answer

Alexis King

oh but wait it was self-answered and it already mentions Felleisen expressiveness

Jason C

20:41

oh wtf

Alexis King

I think this user is just infodumping lately which is good actually

he has been asking/answering actually good questions

Jason C

thats good

that site seems like a fantastic site to troll with self-answered chatgpt generated questions and answers, lol.

Alexis King

well, we don’t have moderators yet, so

technically probably true. but please don’t

Jason C

id never

id just laugh if it happened

seriously though its a good topic for a site it will be interesting

its already interesting

Alexis King

I think I have a decent chance of winning the election so I would probably not be laughing

Jason C

20:44

lol; your publicist advises you not to laugh at chatgpt trolls

Alexis King

see, when I first discovered the site via HNQ my immediate reaction was to post this in a discord group chat:

Jason C

LOL

Alexis King

and tbh I still sort of believe this. but it’s worth a shot

Jason C

its an interesting topic in its own right so maybe the site will improve

lol @ bikeshed.stackexchange.com lets make it happen

Alexis King

@JasonC yeah, I hope so. I think these sorts of attempts within PL have basically always failed, though, mostly because of the “everyone’s a critic” problem: there are lots of people who know relatively little about PLs but use and think about them enough to have strong (but extremely superficial) opinions

so eventually the site gets flooded by amateurs who just want to bikeshed and all the experts leave

Jason C

20:56

yeah

well, it happens

at least it doesn't hurt the internet by existing

Alexis King

yes

Jason C