Tavern on the Meta

Oleg Valter is with Ukraine

01:49

@Catija the merge is very much appreciated! I'd been asleep by the time it happened, just noticed it now.

Luuklag

06:15

Hey all

Good to see a lit bonfire here every once in a while.

Has the company responded in any way to the "strike" announcement?

Tinkeringbell

There are three representatives currently negotiating with them ...

But apart from that, it's all rather opaque to me, I'm not on Discord.

@Mithical is one of those representatives though, maybe they can share a bit?

Mithical

7 hours ago, by Sonic the Anonymous Hedgehog

An update: Stack Exchange has agreed to release the mod-private policy on moderating AI posts to the public.

Other negotiations are ongoing.

Tinkeringbell

06:38

@Mithical Anything you can say about the speed with which things are happening? Because it seems to be going slow to me?

Mithical

in The Ministry of Silly Hats on Stack Overflow Chat, 15 mins ago, by Mithical

@Mithical If an SO mod is willing to go through some of these and fill in the heuristics, that'd be appreciated, by the by. I'd like to be able to bring Cesar some concrete data later today, since negotiations have paused while we gather posts and heuristics.

Luuklag

06:56

@Mithical gathering examples to prove that mods aren't recklessly banning every random new guy from India?

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

07:24

@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog how can you tell? Where was it published?

@Tinkeringbell yeah but Sonic appears to know more, or at least faster, somehow.

(maybe he's just in the public Discord channel, dunno I'm not there either.)

Sonic the Anonymous Hedgehog

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack It was indeed posted in Discord. I just relay them here because no one else bothers to - four hours had passed since it was announced there and my posting it.

As noted there, the reason it hasn't actually been posted yet is because both sides are working on a preamble, after which point it will be published.

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog I see.

hmm looks like mousetail is away, so @Nicolas won't get empty diamond. :(

19 forever! :D

Journeyman Geek

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack Eh, it'll happen eventually

I think folks are aware of Nicolas signing up

just give it 6-8

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

@JourneymanGeek gave it even more (hours) ;)

Journeyman Geek

I didn't say what unit of time :D

SPArcheon

07:39

@starball Honesty? Not that much. Most of the text is similar so I didn't rewrite that from scratch, just made some edits. Also, I wouldn't say this is a"parody" in the common meaning of the word. I think that the "narrative device" works for this problem too, since there is a lingering misunderstanding in what ChatGPT does that brings some user to think it was made to extract knowledge from documents.

That is not its purpose and there are plenty of tool that do a better job at that.

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

10:54

hmm I saved a banana from yesterday, it was green and now it's yellow but still not very soft. Should I try and eat it anyway?

Color is fine, yellow with brown spots, as was discussed already few days ago. :D

SPArcheon

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack Offtopic.

^try this instead.

M.A.R.

11:19

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack bananas are great. Eat it. In front of someone. Make sure they know how much you're enjoying it

4b0

11:50

Is there any UI change , only on meta. Just see red circle around on active reputation. bug or change? It's don't happen on stackoverflow.

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

@SPArcheon only when I'll have a desire to bake the banana, and the brown parts will become a problem. ;)

@4b0 no repro, do you have any userscripts installed? Or custom stylesheet? Typical for something like that.

@M.A.R. urban legend, it never works. I mean it does work, if my intention is to make that someone stare in disgust then go away scratching their head. :P

Banana is still there, on my table. Near phone, wallet, and bottle of water.

It's staring at me.

4b0

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack Nop , all userscripts are disabled.

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

@4b0 try with a different browser then. If still seeing the red border, bug report here on MSE.

(unless you're on a strike?)

If the border is only in one browser, and the browser is surely up to date, cache cleared, etc, can also start bug report but specify it's browser specific.

SPArcheon

12:33

is this just a bigger wave of offtopic meta question or did we reach the point where the few left moderating meta are also feed up and stopped doing so?

Tinkeringbell

We've reached my weekly office day so I'm just slower noticing/closing/deleting them :P

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

12:49

@SPArcheon not few, one.

Tinkeringbell

I'm not alone :) I saw balpha close a question or two yesterday as well. And Geek sneakily handled some spam :D

And Catija did that sort out that merge yesterday

Glorfindel is (iirc) also still available to do stuff/talk things through with if necessary

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

huh

Strike is on a strike

Journeyman Geek

13:10

@Tinkeringbell .... I forgot ...

Tinkeringbell

Shame on you :P

M.A.R.

I also initially slipped a bit by CV'ing something, I forgot, but laziness quickly came to the rescue

@4b0 mmmmaybe they're selected because you have keyboard shortcuts enabled and pressed some key?

Bit of a long shot. And I've not used keyboard shortcuts myself

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

@JourneymanGeek forgot you're on a strike?! It's like... forgetting you don't wear pants and going outside!

:D

M.A.R.

. . . That has never happened to me. Never. No way. Not at all.

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

@M.A.R. hope that when it did, you at least had the decency to wear your Mickey Mouse underwear. ;-)

@M.A.R. I never figured how to use them, and didn't find a list now, but yeah, good chance that if they allow opening inbox via keyboard only, they might add such border.

M.A.R.

13:24

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack of course I wasn't naked, this isn't Russia

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

@M.A.R. well, here police arrested yesterday a naked man with a knife that yelled at them.

(in the street)

M.A.R.

Besdes we're all close to God here and probably the most modest people in the world except scientists at Antarctica

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

@M.A.R. I'm sure those scientists are as far from being modest as I'm far from being it. :D

M.A.R.

I had these pair of underpants on that are like cheap ripoffs of Adidas sportswear. But not really appropriate for school

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

Yeah, here we keep having stories about students not allowed to enter school due to pants being too short. Not only religious schools.

Mostly girls, but think they also have rules for guys.

I do accept rules against allowing them to arrive with underwear, but when it's short pants, and covering what's need to be covered, no need to limit it, IMO.

And I did have original Mickey Mouse boxers but sadly they are no more. cries :(

M.A.R.

13:32

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack schools are full of control freaks that like bullying children.

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

@M.A.R. nah it's usually coming from the top, not per-school decisions. It's just that most of the times, the gate keeper doesn't care or check. lol

Tinkeringbell

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack Disney surely has a webshop where you can order some

M.A.R.

Disney never misses an opportunity

plays logo

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

@Tinkeringbell car cost less than their products. D:

I bought it for around $20, I think, here is costs at least double. :(

I have a nephew living in USA but don't think it will be good idea to ask him to buy it for me. :P

Journeyman Geek

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack Dogs don't wear pants

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

13:37

@JourneymanGeek only hats?

Journeyman Geek

When we're not on strike :D

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

Also...

:D

Journeyman Geek

that's a poodle

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

Still a dog.

Journeyman Geek

Poodles have no dignity

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

13:39

Racist! :D

flagging on behalf of all poodles

I wonder how many people actually dress their pets... saw maybe one or two during my whole lifetime so far. lol

And only those tiny dogs that can fit inside a bag. :D

SPArcheon

@JourneymanGeek the only real dog is the original wild ones like wolfs and the such. Everything else is corruption from mankind, so if some dogs are "horrible" from an evolutionary point of view blame the idiots that crafted them, not the dog.

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

@SPArcheon based on that, dogs should ask for pants. Or at least not try to take them off when being dressed. ;)

And there are wild dogs, I was beaten by one as teenager. ;(

SPArcheon

There are breeds that are known to have constant health issues thanks to the specific traits they have thanks to human selection

dogs that live their life with dry eyes issue for example.

....

and they are still luckier than koi

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

@SPArcheon and better than chickens, or cows, in general...

Lundin

Maybe there was an original caveman from which various humans were corrupted too. Cavemen didn't have Twitter or ChatGPT or had their toilets connected to the Internet... They lived happily until they died of old age at 32.

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

13:46

@Lundin think 32 was their oldest.

Most died way before that.

SPArcheon

Celestial Eye

Celestial eye goldfish or Choutengan is a double-tailed breed of fancy goldfish that has a breed-defining pair of telescope eyes which are turned upwards, pupils gazing skyward. When the fry hatch, the eyes of young Celestials are normal but gradually protrude sideways, as in the Telescope eye goldfish, but unlike the telescope, which has eyes facing outwards on each side, the eyes of the celestial eye turns strictly upwards within a period of six months of development. This process is entirely governed by genetics, though early sources perpetuated the myth that the fish were bred and kept in narrow...

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

Wait... toilets connected to internet?! Where? @Lundin ;)

SPArcheon

@Lundin ^ see wikipedia above.

I doubt that would have naturally evolved that way....

Lundin

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack Yeah if unlucky you got run over by a woolly rhino while crossing the street.

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack And well yeah, google "IoT toilet". Because why not.

Journeyman Geek

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack Its called IOT... Internet of toilets.

Lundin

13:50

@SPArcheon Yeah well, I could like some pics of plastic surgery humans and they don't look too different from that poor fish.

Moderation Q&A was much easier for cavemen too. You'd have the public wall where you could draw all your mammoth-related questions and moderators would be the folks with clubs.

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

@Lundin and the naughty kids pee on it and destroy everything! (aka spammers ;))

@Lundin boring, I was expecting also option for camera! :P

@JourneymanGeek haha that's actually a thing, there's a company with that name. :D

Lundin

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack More like the local axe craftsman drawing their mammoth hunt drawing with people wielding axes instead of spears.

As for IoT toilets, I bet the Japanese have that. Probably a toilet which can walk on two legs as well. They like to focus their R&D on important stuff like robots and more robots.

Sorry if I derailed the important dogs with pants discussion btw.

Journeyman Geek

@Lundin Magical Girl Mecha Portaloo!

Lundin

@JourneymanGeek Yeah that could be the name of a Japanese IoT toilet. Or an anime with 55 seasons.

Meta Andrew T.

welp, SE died?

I guess a blip...

Lundin

14:05

I had a lag spike too

Umm yeah. Some sort of ddos crap again?

stackstatus.net actually claims it might be due to planned maintenance

Mithical

@Lundin That's not supposed to start yet.

Lundin

@Mithical Hmm yeah not until in 1 hour I guess? Assuming they use EST

Mithical

It should be in local time on the status site

Meta Andrew T.

the maintenance is on 21:00 UTC, and now is 21:00 +7:00

Lundin

Well it also says error 500. Which is one more than 499. I think... internal server error? Ddos or beavers in the server room etc.

Meta Andrew T.

14:13

unless there's a time slip...

Lundin

I guess the servers are on strike too. Oh well, maybe I should go outside and enjoy the nice weather...

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

@MetaAndrewT. yeah it killed a bot in Den. :(

Well most sites of SE dead, MSE still works, status page dead.

Not so smart to host your status page on same server as the sites. LOL

(just saying)

Journeyman Geek

I don't think it is

MSE is IIRC on a different server

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

@JourneymanGeek so it's just coincidence both don't work on same time? I don't think so.

Better undo this all and switch back to status page on Twitter, IMO.

@Lundin yes 500 means internal server error, and common result of DDoS attacks. Sadly, we won't get any details.

They rarely reveal any details, and now they won't say anything for sure.

And now MSE is dead. Time to do some actual work. I guess. Cya in few hours!

Catija

14:30

Oops.

We're working on it. W

Eleeza the Other World Wizard

14:50

Did something happen to Stack Exchange?

Journeyman Geek

@EleezatheOtherWorldWizard Its broken

Catija

We broke the DB. We're fixing it.

Eleeza the Other World Wizard

Oh dear

Journeyman Geek

@Catija ......

Catija

Apparently we had to start using negative numbers because we ran out of positive ones... and then we accidentally switched back to positive numbers.

2

Journeyman Geek

14:51

o0

What happens when you run out of those too?

Catija

Or something. I didn't even know you could use negative numbers in the first place so the whole database thing is above my head.

Journeyman Geek

Oh, signed vs unsigned

though I think there's datatypes that let you go bigger

Or something

Catija

@JourneymanGeek It took 15 years to run out, so hopefully we'll have some time to figure out an option.

Journeyman Geek

@Catija something something genAI...

Kevin B

> we had 15 years to figure out an option

hides

Catija

14:55

Adam and Aaron are fixing it. I trust them.

Kevin B

isn't that the dev responsible for moving us to this.... "ui framework"

Adrian Mole

@JourneymanGeek They can use imaginary numbers?

Journeyman Geek

@AdrianMole Actually I was thinking ints large and so on...

Pretty hard to run out of 64 bit numbers no?

Mast - on strike

@Catija Classic Stack overflow.

Adrian Mole

@JourneymanGeek Yeah - there are gazillions.

... but there are far more real numbers.

Catija

14:58

@KevinB No. DBA. Not the designer. That one is gone. This Aaron is the former mod on DBA.

Kevin B

👍

Adrian Mole

DBA = "Dang Brilliant Aaron"?

Spevacus

This is Aaron "writes awesome explanations for what went wrong" Bertrand we're familiar with? Nice.

Hannah Vernon

15:24

@AdrianMole that's the one

Adrian Mole

{wrong room}

Bart

Rude only mode? I might come back.

Adrian Mole

Come back to the wright wroom?

Bart

Only if by that you mean the Tavern

Adrian Mole

Why does the title of the "offline" page say, "We are offline?" Who is "we"? I'm not offline.

... off my trolley, maybe.

Journeyman Geek

15:31

@AdrianMole WE ARE LEGO. I MEAN LEGGO, I MEAN LEGION...

Network seems back up

Adrian Mole

Not really. My 'home page' says "0 questions with no answers". And the SO chat server just went comatose.

... "You must be logged in to talk."

SPArcheon

@JourneymanGeek we are legion, for we are many

Adrian Mole

LEGION -> LEG ION -> LEG IRONS. That's what's needed.

Kevin B

neat, i found a gpt answer

Journeyman Geek

Maybe Jeremy Irons instead

@KevinB HOW DO YOU KNOW?

Kevin B

15:37

they admitted it

Catija

@AdrianMole Yeah, you need to log back in on SO.

Journeyman Geek

@KevinB .....

Adrian Mole

@Catija That worked. Thanks.

Kevin B

> let's assume this is in cell D2. In an adjacent cell, use the following formula to perform the VLOOKUP: less Copy code =IF(ISNU

(it was also missing backticks and everything)

if only all people abusing cgpt were this lazy

Adrian Mole

Bias against people who speak Ctrl-V-ish?

Safdar Faisal

15:42

Was there a forced update for gravatars? iirc, the old gravatar would have only changed after I change the profile picture once..

Kevin B

yes, a month or so ago

Safdar Faisal

Sad.. I quite liked my old blue gravatar..

V2Blast

80

Q: We're regenerating all Gravatar identicons

We've recently discovered a vulnerability in our identicon generation process. To remedy it, we have changed how we approach generating them and regenerated all identicons. We do not have any indication that any personally identifiable information (PII) was leaked as part of this vulnerability. S...

Safdar Faisal

@V2Blast wait, so my old gravatar let people get my IP? huh?

Spevacus

@SafdarFaisal There was a vulnerability, but they don't believe any personal information was leaked as a part of it.

You can use the Contact Us form to ask for your old one back if you really liked it.

Safdar Faisal

15:52

Is the wayback machine rate limited for SE or is it my browser?

Tinkeringbell

@SafdarFaisal If you don't mind the PII thing I can get you a link to your old blue one...

Bit faster than contact us ;)

Hannah Vernon

> The term "Ides" refers to the middle of a month in the ancient Roman calendar, specifically the 15th day of March, May, July, and October, and the 13th day of the other months. The Ides of June, therefore, would be the 15th of June.

Oh, ChatGPT, how I love thee

Spevacus

... lol

Laurel

@Spevacus Hm, they didn't announce what the vulnerability was exactly, but I thought that it might have been something that I had been using for (what I thought was) innocuous purposes for years.

Spevacus

Laurel the Black Hat Hacker :D

Laurel

16:03

And because everyone can see identicons, you don't feel bad about posting about it publicly

Hannah Vernon

I just asked ChatGPT to correct itself, and it replied with this thoughtful and somewhat amazing response:

> Apologies for the incorrect information in my previous response. You are correct, and I apologize for the oversight. In the ancient Roman calendar, the Ides fell on the 15th day of March, May, July, and October. For the other months, including June, the Ides occurred on the 13th day. Therefore, the correct date for the Ides of June is indeed the 13th. Thank you for pointing out the error.

I feel terrible for making ChatGPT do better

maybe I hurt it in its feels

SPArcheon

someone should tell Microsoft that Infrared is missing

(picture from online tutorial on Microsoft site)

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

17:14

@SPArcheon Are you Simone? Rob? Robert? Rebecca? ;)

@Catija pre-maintanance?

@Catija or change to Long Integer?

@JourneymanGeek maybe not in Windows core products, won't be surprised.

Max number is.... 256!

@Bart Den is waiting.

You have a table for yourself there, in a corner.

@SafdarFaisal PII isn't just IP, it's any private info that shouldn't be public by default, in case of Gravatar it's email, which was used to generate it.

@HannahVernon you did. You're now marked by it, and a future ChatGPT will punish you when you won't expect it. For example, you'll find your smart car driving all by itself to someone you don't like and making lots of noise to annoy them. :D

SPArcheon

17:32

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack see the line just below.

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

@SPArcheon I saw. What about it?

Safdar Faisal

19:13

@Tinkeringbell yes please.. :O

V2Blast

19:32

FYI, some info about the recent outage:

1

Q: Stack Exchange Network Outage – June 15, 2023

TL;DR: On June 15, 2023, starting at 13:52 UTC, an integer overflow in our database caused the SE Network sites to become unavailable for all users. Timeline: On June 15, 2023, at 13:52 UTC, we started noticing elevated errors related to changes made to our main database. By 13:57 UTC, SE Network...

discussion featured outage

Tinkeringbell

@SafdarFaisal Seems you got it already?

Your MSE one looks blue again at least ;)

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

20:17

@Tinkeringbell wonder how

Tinkeringbell

20:52

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack internet Archive?

(Wayback machine)

5 hours ago, by Safdar Faisal

Is the wayback machine rate limited for SE or is it my browser?

Starship - On Strike

um whens the planned outage?

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

21:30

@Starship-OnStrike now

Now it's 21:30 UTC.

And it's not planned outage, outage is just a possible outcome, so we should be prepared.

The plan is to put SE in read only mode for only about a minute.

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