Tavern on the Meta

Nick is tired

02:43

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack I mostly work behind the scenes. Plenty talking and trying to keep things moving along, but not much public stuff.

Peter Kolosov

03:49

Oh wait! Here are two "Journeyman Geek" owners! XD

And even two Catija's owners!

Oleg Valter is with Ukraine

04:01

it's just an unfortunate side-effect of room owners and "currently in the room" / "frequently in the room" having a two-column layout with not big enough gaps between the columns

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

04:50

@OlegValteriswithUkraine I'm still not used to having same time zone as big parts of Russia, which appears to be so far away. Well, it is, but having same time makes it look like we're close. ;)

@Nickistired that's good, but just wonder if someone I don't know at all suddenly claims to be one of the organizers, where to verify, etc.

(I did know you before from the little activity you did show ;))

@OlegValteriswithUkraine yeah, chat design could use some love, but now it looks more far away than travelling to Mars and back. :D

Journeyman Geek

06:04

@PeterKolosov we are legion

3

Oleg Valter is with Ukraine

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack well, we do span a lot of landmass :) UTC+3 is also a pretty wide timezone

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack ah, the times where "updating chat" was on the public roadmap! Or the times when we had a roadmap to begin with!

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

06:38

@OlegValteriswithUkraine never really was, just one time when @balpha upgraded it a bit, but don't think it was ever part of any official roadmap. Or was it?

And yeah, roadmap now is very simple: "One goal: make money."

Here, it's even written on their wall.

:-D

balpha

07:31

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack looking at the commit history, it looks like the last time (other than winterbash things) there seems to have been a bit of a push was late 2020 / early 2021 when there were a couple of improvements to moderation tools

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

@balpha chat moderation tools? Didn't know such thing even exists. ;)

Pity this never came to life:

58

Q: RFC: Better chat @mentions – A prototype

Status: 75% - We have a prototype to play with the UI Previous RFC: RFC: Better chat @mentions Problem Statement & Background Please see the previous RFC. Proposed solution The feedback to the solution I proposed in the original RFC was overwhelmingly positive. We now have a prototype of the chat...

balpha

When Slack made that change, IIRC it took them a year to behave mostly in a not-broken way.

contenteditable is just a huge pain

Meta Andrew T.

08:04

Gotta be honest, I dislike Discord because I can't add/remove direct reply after posting the message :(

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

08:35

I just don't like Discord. :/

No specific reason, just can't find myself there.

SPArcheon

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack I assume there still is a roadmap, but I also assume the roadmap contains a planned shutdown / death of the network in ... less than 2 years now.

Current direction is so utterly completely wrong in alienating everyone they need to continue running the site that we simply have to have entered the "make money till it last" phase

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

@SPArcheon that's obvious, yeah.

hmm but what about their precious Teams? @Mith does the strike apply to Teams as well, or only the public Q&A sites?

Looked now, it's not mentioned in the Open Letter.

So Teams might work as usual, giving SE the profit they need, and everything else shut down.

SPArcheon

09:04

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack to use an old internet slang...

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack inb4 someone discovers that an obscure clause in the contract allows them to also sell the data from private Teams in anonymous form OR they did by mistake.

Nick is tired

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack Sure, while there's no specific way to really verify that, we generally decide beforehand who is going to post a message, so someone would likely post a comment on any post that hasn't been properly organised.

Journeyman Geek

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack we don't moderate teams and to be honest, usage dropped a bit once they took it off the sidebar

So no real direct impact to teams as far as mods are concerned

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

09:58

@SPArcheon "hacked"?

@Nickistired fair. :)

@JourneymanGeek no edits? Votes to close? Who moderate then, only CM's?

Tinkeringbell

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack Each Team has a set of admins. If you make your own, you're the admin. There are edits, you can vote to close... but it's not like there are loads of Teams that are moderated by SE mods or that CMs mod every team out there...

SPArcheon

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack I was thinking about the data leak

balpha

@Tinkeringbell @ShadowWizardStrikesBack yeah, it's not even possible -- the CMs don't have access to any Teams (even we devs don't)

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

@Tinkeringbell so repeating my question, those who are on a strike and happen to be admins in a team, stop admin actions on the team as well?

Journeyman Geek

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack probably not

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

10:07

@JourneymanGeek huh.

As I feared, Teams are shielded.

Journeyman Geek

And won't affect the company unless they are a paying customer who cancels

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

Well yes, that's a fair point.

@balpha oh my. So it's "shoot and forget" for SE. Still, what if something terrible happens inside a team? e.g. troll get admin access and start to nuke all the content?

@SPArcheon which leak?

balpha

Well you're talking about a company that's paying for an enterprise product, with access gated to employees only. So I guess it would be the same question as, "what if a troll starts to nuke all Jira tickets, Github repos, etc."

that troll would probably be fired 🤷

I mean, our customer success people will probably be happy to give some community management advice and that kind of thing, and at a customer request there might be some things like bulk undeletions that could be done

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

@balpha I mean external person hack one of the admins accounts, get their password, etc, and start having fun with that hacked account.

balpha

then that company would probably come to us for help

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

10:16

@balpha and give you explicit access?

BTW, is there really "customer success" group, or did you mean "customer support"? @balpha

balpha

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack I don't know what the "break glass" process looks like exactly, but it will involve a lot of paperwork and audit trails and all of that.

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

@balpha heh, figures. Has it ever happened?

balpha

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack I forget what exactly we call it here -- I've seen both names used at different companies for more or less the same thing

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack not that I know of

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

heh, well, "support" should be only, well, support, while "success" implies more than that, e.g. actively trying to make the customer happy without/before they contact support.

SPArcheon

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack well, you said "hack" - in that case it would be the 2019 incident. But I was actually referencing the mess with the swag mail containing every winner user address. That was annoying but reasonable, mixing up the public and private data dumps would be a serious issue.

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

10:22

@SPArcheon oh I see. Email addresses shouldn't reveal too much.

balpha

10:32

@SPArcheon That's not something I would worry about -- the data dump as a concept only exists for public, and Teams lives in a completely different infrastructure, so it's not even possible to mix anything up accidentally.

there's a reason that the 2019 incident didn't impact any Teams customer data

the security barrier there is really good

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

@balpha master password: 123456. ;)

balpha

no, we changed it to hunter2 at the request of the infosec department 😛

SPArcheon

10:47

@balpha Not "Open sesame"?

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack In that case the issue was blown up by the fact that an user had the brilliant idea to abuse the leak for a joke mail and that got everyone involved quite upset.

Tinkeringbell

everyone - 1

At least.

SPArcheon

for further reference, see this. Was decently managed to be fair, albeit I would have preferred if they had privately warned the affected users before Evan could act on his troll, but perhaps there was not enough time

Tinkeringbell

> Right before that email you mention, you should have one from me, apologizing for this mistake and making everyone aware of it — I properly BCC'd everyone on that one!

We were privately warned before Evan trolled

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

11:08

@SPArcheon yeah.

> We're looking at what systems we can use for similar situations in the future, so as to avoid emails like these having to be sent manually from our personal inboxes

Bets on how much work was done on such systems? I don't have to bet, answer is clear. Round and shiny 0.

Instead, there are simply no swag contests anymore, or swag at all. Simple, efficient, saving money. Perfect for new SE management. lol

@Tinkeringbell only because it's JNat.

(i.e. it was their private decision to send warning/apology, not something from higher above.)

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

11:22

@Tink this has strong smell of trolling. Waste of migration? ;)

Tinkeringbell

Not my problem anymore :P

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

IMO it's all on purpose, the crap questions/answers included.

There's discord troll hunters group, they probably know that one as well.

Tinkeringbell

If it's trolling, probably good to have all evidence in one place anyways.

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

Decent users who rant about downvotes/deleted posts do it in different way, usually, and don't engage so much.

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

11:46

took short break from strike to help nuking troll-ish crap

(rejected migration, as expected.)

GcL

15:44

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack I thought the presence of crap was going to be part of the incentive of the strike. Kind of making the argument that should have been self-evident, "without mods trash accumulates"

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

@GcL nah, it was special and very annoying crap.

Can use metaphor, but I won't. :D

GcL

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack Crap like rusty sliver? or is that a simile?

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

17:23

@GcL that's grinning smiley. ;)

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

17:55

Anyone remember those good old times?

:D

M.A.R.

19:36

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack there's this nice system on gmail.com

@SPArcheon haha I remember that

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack OMG you made me feel something there

@PeterKolosov I KNEW IT

@GcL I think the point has since been thoroughly made, given they've even agreed to 'negotiate'. I've been too busy to read up on Discord though

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack I actually had a mini-chat fight of the same style of hyperbole (downvotes = assaults) a day earlier, or I would have entertained the idea of it being a troll. No, really, someone is unironically being that dramatic

@Tinkeringbell that brings back some memories

Of uncritical kids and a moron saying some things. Several morons saying some things that you remember years later and are like WTF

Our whole nation's problem is these morons are continuing to make these memories en masse of course

Feeds

21:28

In the Hall of the Mountain King was accidentally composed on log/log paper.

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

23:15

@M.A.R. oh no, not the heart!

:D

@M.A.R. hmm?

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