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Journeyman Geek

03:27

→ 23 messages moved to Chimney

tripleee

07:39

flag-pls spam mobile, returning spammer askubuntu.com/questions/1396642/what-is-the-best-mobile-in-2022

cocomac

@tripleee Post 1: Already recently reported [ MS ]

tripleee

it wasn't reported in this room; that's why I bring it up here

Luuklag

07:59

@Glorfindel Thanks a lot. Works like a charm.

@tripleee poof

Not to mention I had a support guy at our IT company spend an hour on this, googling it. No wonder their looking for a replacement for him...

tripleee

strictly speaking the ´ acute accent is distinct from ' the single quote

even more strictly speaking ` is not a grave accent but an ASCII backtick but this is more of an academic point

Luuklag

@tripleee true. but typing ' & e -> é is far more convenient.

then holding e to get the different versions of e

tripleee

on my Scandinavian keyboard these dead keys are already on their own keys, but I guess you will never get used to a keyboard where åäö have their own keys too (-:

PM 2Ring

On Linux, you can use a Compose Key. That's kind of available on Windows & Mac, too.

Shadow Wizard Hates Omicron

08:22

@Luuklag poor guy

@tripleee surprised there isn't emoji keyboard yet.

tripleee

sure there is

Shadow Wizard Hates Omicron

@tripleee show

Example person

I've been seeing an increase in questions that are meant to be in Stack Overflow. I really wonder where people find Meta before Stack Overflow.

tripleee

08:37

@ShadowWizardHatesOmicron easy enough to google, cdn.cultofmac.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/…

Shadow Wizard Hates Omicron

08:55

@Exampleperson nah, it's really the average. There were way worse waves. You just see it because mods are away.

when parrot and/or dog are around, off topic questions simply don't survive long enough to be seen in homepage unless you're lucky.

There was one time when SE sent inbox notification to all users, all the millions of users, with direct link to MSE. This caused such a huge wave of off topic questions that they had to raise the reputation required to post a new question to 2.

Example person

@ShadowWizardHatesOmicron what?!

Shadow Wizard Hates Omicron

Fun times :D

Think it was like 10 off topic questions every hour, sometimes 20 and 30.

Example person

wow

Shadow Wizard Hates Omicron

People just clicked the link, landed on MSE, didn't notice they're in MSE, and posted whatever question they were going to ask in the site they were in before.

I love waffles

Example person

oh

i misread

Shadow Wizard Hates Omicron

09:00

@tripleee I'm too lazy to Google sometimes. :D

Example person

@ShadowWizardHatesOmicron, have you been ever a moderator on any site here? I am not even close

Shadow Wizard Hates Omicron

@Exampleperson nope. Gave it a try for the first time just a week ago, on two sites.

@Exampleperson really no need to post it here.

Only if you see off topic question that still not deleted after hour or so, then we can ask for help deleting it. :)

plz-delete test hello world @Exampleperson

Example person

I just wanted to let you know....

Shadow Wizard Hates Omicron

Like this ^^

Example person

okay thanks for letting me know

@ShadowWizardHatesOmicron I see 2 questions actually btw

Shadow Wizard Hates Omicron

09:04

huh, undid my delete vote by mistake :(

@Exampleperson watch now

Real case

plz-delete elements @rene @Sonic @Mithical

tripleee

flag-pls spam spurious link for SEO coffee.stackexchange.com/a/5877

Shadow Wizard Hates Omicron

Two hours already, so I do ask here for help deleting it.

Example person

nice

Shadow Wizard Hates Omicron

@tripleee flagged

@Exampleperson anyway when mods will wake up, all will be good again they handle those off topic questions really fast.

Example person

yeah ik

Shadow Wizard Hates Omicron

09:09

.....and looks like we have a new hacker.

Samuel Ordonez ♦

1

Hope he won't get staff, then SE will really be in trouble.

Last time ordinary user was able to get admin access to SE.

Example person

oh my god

I know

we all got an email I believe

Shadow Wizard Hates Omicron

Yeah last hacker did copy several hundreds emails before being stopped.

Example person

Should we open a meta post?

probably not

they will probably detect the hacker

@ShadowWizardHatesOmicron I wonder what the hacker is going to do

nice I see meta.stackexchange.com/questions/376974/…

Shadow Wizard Hates Omicron

@Catija if you're around, better check this out. ^

Thanks.

back to drinking my coffee

Tinkeringbell

@ShadowWizardHatesOmicron Maybe better to ping @JNat, with timezones and stuff ;-)

DavidPostill

09:21

Could be a new staff member ...

Example person

@DavidPostill maybe the [Staff] badge is just not added to them yet?

DavidPostill

> Samuel Ordonez Lavine
Platform Developer at Stack Overflow

Example person

@DavidPostill ... :) !!!

@DavidPostill where do you see that btw?

DavidPostill

Example person

@DavidPostill maybe just maybe... could still be a hacker?

Shadow Wizard Hates Omicron

09:26

@Tinkeringbell well, you just did. ;)

Tinkeringbell

Yeah, I know you're lazy :P

Shadow Wizard Hates Omicron

@Exampleperson staff never were mods like this. If that's the case it's some pretty major bug.

Example person

@ShadowWizardHatesOmicron I know that :)

Shadow Wizard Hates Omicron

@Exampleperson agreed, one can write whatever they want on LinkedIn.

Though if he's a hacker, he's very very bold.

Example person

@ShadowWizardHatesOmicron yep

@ShadowWizardHatesOmicron they are also not a moderator on Stack Overflow. So...

Shadow Wizard Hates Omicron

09:36

@Exampleperson that's less relevant, SE often hires people who are long time users of Stack Overflow, but never giving them any diamond.

Just "staff" bit in the database, and recently a very welcome addition of staff label in profile and next to the name itself.

Example person

@ShadowWizardHatesOmicron hmm...

Shadow Wizard Hates Omicron

Anyway hacker or not hacker, too bad this Samuel isn't around now, to clean the off topic questions... looks like all the real mods are busy, and we don't have enough active high rep users around. :(

!!/coffee Spe

SmokeDetector

@ShadowWizardHatesOmicron brews a cup of Mocha for @Spe

Shadow Wizard Hates Omicron

This might wake up one...

Oleg Valter is with Ukraine

@Exampleperson that's a new meme candidate as it seems - it was a staff response to the bug report about a single-line JS comment making it into the markup on prod on Wednesday

The original is "Whoops Wednesday" :)

Shadow Wizard Hates Omicron

09:43

@OlegValteriswithUkraine isn't it a known meme outside SE?

Anyway another reference, from MSO:

Looks like whoopsie wednesday came early this week — Zoe stands with Ukraine ♦ Feb 20 at 19:06

Oleg Valter is with Ukraine

@ShadowWizardHatesOmicron I don't think so - seems like it was a pun by Yaakov

Shadow Wizard Hates Omicron

@OlegValteriswithUkraine I only saw Adam, where did Yaakov mention it?

Example person

09:56

stackoverflow.com/users/17542301/user17542301 on stackoverflow...

Who are they?

Oleg Valter is with Ukraine

@ShadowWizardHatesOmicron yikes, was it Adam? Sorry for the misref then

Example person

What is going on?!

Shadow Wizard Hates Omicron

@OlegValteriswithUkraine :)

Example person

@ShadowWizardHatesOmicron are they staff (the link I've mentioned above)

Shadow Wizard Hates Omicron

@Exampleperson thanks, added to the report. Looks like the bug is bigger than I thought.

DavidPostill

10:03

@Exampleperson We don't know for sure yet.

Shadow Wizard Hates Omicron

SE code is bugged, when new staff appointed, something breaks and weird things happen all around the network.

Journeyman Geek

@ShadowWizardHatesOmicron I think its "You get a diamond if you need it"

so mostly dev SRE and CM side

DavidPostill

@ShadowWizardHatesOmicron What report?

Shadow Wizard Hates Omicron

@JourneymanGeek sure but most don't need it, and all staff should have, well, staff label.

Journeyman Geek

\o/

SE needs better internal processes I guess

Shadow Wizard Hates Omicron

10:05

@DavidPostill this one

DavidPostill

Never mind. Found it

Shadow Wizard Hates Omicron

@JourneymanGeek for sure, lol. My best guess is that when they hire new employee, someone has to manually add records to several production tables, with SQL query. Naturally, it's very prone to errors.

Journeyman Geek

@ShadowWizardHatesOmicron something something internal processes

Shadow Wizard Hates Omicron

@JourneymanGeek require development time, which they prefer spent on other things.

Example person

@ShadowWizardHatesOmicron they both seem to have accounts from the time

Shadow Wizard Hates Omicron

10:09

Lost track on the big projects of SO. but maybe now all their focus go on Collectives?

Journeyman Geek

@Exampleperson Keep calm, and wait for people to wake up :D

Shadow Wizard Hates Omicron

(until it will be shut down, of course.)

Journeyman Geek

lol

Collectives is primarily visual tho

Example person

@JourneymanGeek right.

Shadow Wizard Hates Omicron

@JourneymanGeek still need lots of work and cooperation with big companies, so lots of hassle for SE.

At some point it won't be worth that hassle.

But it's years ahead, no worry. :D

If I would have told, e.g. year ago, that Jobs are going to shut down, don't think anyone would have believed me.

!!/predict future

SmokeDetector

10:12

@ShadowWizardHatesOmicron No such command 'predict'.

Shadow Wizard Hates Omicron

:(

Example person

10:24

@ShadowWizardHatesOmicron what if these two people are staff and many other staff members neither have the staff badge nor the moderator badge thing?

Journeyman Geek

@ShadowWizardHatesOmicron SE does not 'shut down' things, they get sunset :D

Example person

@JourneymanGeek, so they rise up again the next day?

Sonic the Save Ukraine-hog

10:45

@JourneymanGeek Some comments on your duplicate closure of meta.stackexchange.com/questions/376636/… to my question meta.stackexchange.com/questions/306397/…:

1. The initial request I'm trying to get attention for has an official response, so my question on how to get attention for requests with no official response doesn't apply, as the tips there are aimed at getting the team to respond to a request they haven't responded to yet (i.e. are unaware of).

2. I'm aware of the paragraph I wrote in the answer to the target, beginning with "Don't repost the request". However, I believe that paragraph doesn't apply here, not only because it's explicitly phrased as for if the original request has no official response, but also because I clearly explained that the reason I'm posting the question is because I'm concerned that the original request fell off the team's radar since the holiday break happened right after the marking as planned.

See also my comment replies to Mari-Lou A, who proposed the same target you closed as a duplicate of.

I felt the comments were getting too long-winded, and much of the above is redundant to said comment responses, so posting here in chat.

Shadow Wizard Hates Omicron

@Exampleperson yes this is one option

@JourneymanGeek or... "moon brought"? ;)

Sonic the Save Ukraine-hog

I'm just trying to understand why the question I'm asking about there got such a negative reception, and how I can improve it so it's entirely distinct from the original request.

Shadow Wizard Hates Omicron

@Sonic you really remind me of Laszlo and it's bad. You should know by now that trying to figure why you get downvotes never ends well, never. You just get upset, you upset people around you, and it only get worse.

Just..... let it go. Please.

Accept that sometimes, you get downvotes. And you can't know why.

Journeyman Geek

11:01

I think the tactical bounty didn't help

Sonic the Save Ukraine-hog

I placed the bounty because the question was getting downvoted off the home page (-8 score) and would have never been seen as such.

Shadow Wizard Hates Omicron

Still tactical, as it's not the purpose of bounties.

Journeyman Geek

It also had closevotes that expired cause of that

Shadow Wizard Hates Omicron

(to dodge the -8 limit - but as there's no rule against it, guess it's fine. :))

Journeyman Geek

so it was pretty much seen as using your knowledge of the system to circumvent, well, what the community was trying to do

Shadow Wizard Hates Omicron

11:05

BTW, @Exampleperson do note that now with moderators (real, not bugged) around, MSE is clean of any off topic questions. :D

hmm you should have used "Example Person" as display name.

Now your p is small.

:-P

Sonic the Save Ukraine-hog

@JourneymanGeek So, let me get this straight - you closed the question not because you evaluated the question and decided my 2018 question answered it well, but because others were voting to close it, regardless of the validity of those votes?

Journeyman Geek

@SonictheSaveUkraine-hog See THIS IS EXACTLY THE PROBLEM

Shadow Wizard Hates Omicron

Well could be more simple to just remove the bounty, no? @Journeyman

Journeyman Geek

@ShadowWizardHatesOmicron we don't remove bounties

Shadow Wizard Hates Omicron

@JourneymanGeek why not?

Journeyman Geek

11:08

@ShadowWizardHatesOmicron Cause if you wanted to waste your rep its your problem

Shadow Wizard Hates Omicron

If you deem a bounty as tactical in a way that really hurts the system?

Don't think Sonic case is like this, but there are such cases.

Sonic the Save Ukraine-hog

@JourneymanGeek Yeah, that occurred to me after placing the bounty. I will admit that I considered re-bountying it later after the original one expired to ward off future close votes, but decided against it.

Journeyman Geek

@SonictheSaveUkraine-hog so basically - you gotta learn to trust the community

@ShadowWizardHatesOmicron Oh, how sneaky don't you think I am?

Sonic the Save Ukraine-hog

I've moved from "I will nitpick any explanation" to "I will accept any explanation, even if it's clearly absurd".

Journeyman Geek

I'd suspend the user.

"it's clearly absurd"

If you really know better...

Shadow Wizard Hates Omicron

11:10

@JourneymanGeek very! :D

Journeyman Geek

@ShadowWizardHatesOmicron assuming there's nothing offensive - I vaguely recall we can clear the bounty text

Sonic the Save Ukraine-hog

@JourneymanGeek That's more of an unofficial hack

33

A: Why was Zoe's bounty message removed?

I don't know why I never came back and answered this, but it was an honest mistake on my part. I was trying to lock the deleted answer for various reasons and was trying to remove the post notice because it wasn't relevant. In the process of doing that, I accidentally triggered post notice remov...

Journeyman Geek

and I once accidentally and I don't mean "he fell out a window twice" accidentally suspended someone a day past the bounty grace period

Sonic the Save Ukraine-hog

> I was trying to lock the deleted answer for various reasons and was trying to remove the post notice because it wasn't relevant. In the process of doing that, I accidentally triggered post notice removal on the question instead of the answer.

Journeyman Geek

@SonictheSaveUkraine-hog no particular need to go into the weeds

point is, we have options

Sonic the Save Ukraine-hog

11:12

Sorry, copied the wrong section

Journeyman Geek

Fundamentally - you're talking about the cogs of the system, but not understanding the system, or more specifically the people who make up the system as a whole

"Why was I downvoted?"

"Because they couldn't close vote"

And its a topic that kinda gets rehashed every so often with no great options

Sonic the Save Ukraine-hog

Just to be clear, the main point of the question was about the duplicate closure

Journeyman Geek

I'm a MSE mod and I don't have a guarenteed route to get anything done, or warning before something big happens

@SonictheSaveUkraine-hog which... should have been left to the community to deal

Sonic the Save Ukraine-hog

And that's what I asked about in the question: how can I make the earlier question distinct from the original request.

Shadow Wizard Hates Omicron

@SonictheSaveUkraine-hog there's always the chance that you just can't.

Sonic the Save Ukraine-hog

11:24

And that's what your answer said. I found your answer fine enough to award the bounty to and decided it wasn't worth an additional bounty, since I wasn't seeking additional answers.

Shadow Wizard Hates Omicron

And since you know MSE, and SE, better than most others, chance someone can tell you something you don't know is very low anyway.

Sonic the Save Ukraine-hog

Let's just say that I have a lawyer's brain sometimes

@ShadowWizardHatesOmicron By the way, did you review my final revision of the question linked in that post, as you said you'd do in a comment on your answer?

If you still think it's a duplicate, I won't bother with it more and just accept it.

Shadow Wizard Hates Omicron

11:50

@SonictheSaveUkraine-hog yes, and I'm afraid I won't reopen it, sorry.

Sonic the Save Ukraine-hog

Okay. Would be nice to hear some advice on why it's still a duplicate, so I can avoid this situation in the future.

Shadow Wizard Hates Omicron

@SonictheSaveUkraine-hog no advice, it's corner case where while I would not close it myself as duplicate, I also don't see it as "not duplicate" strongly enough to justify going against five other users. Hard to explain.

Sonic the Save Ukraine-hog

Okay, so it's a case where you'd recuse from handling the question. Makes sense: I do that all the time to quite a few questions.

Shadow Wizard Hates Omicron

Like Journeyman said, sometimes we just have to accept the decisions of the community members, even if we don't agree with them.

Sonic the Save Ukraine-hog

In any case, what is the correct thing to do if you see a planned request and you're concerned that it fell off the team's radar, and want to bring it to their attention again?

Tinkeringbell

11:58

Stop worrying.

2

If staff commented or is otherwise ping-a-ble on the request, you could drop a polite comment, but... I wouldn't recommend doing that more than once every 5 years.

JNat

@Exampleperson Sam works here, yeah. Pinging folks internally to see why the account type wasn't flipped to "staff"

Sonic the Save Ukraine-hog

12:11

Speaking of, I'm glad I received confirmation yesterday that a request from 2018 with many duplicates posted over the years (including mine) that saw no activity other than being marked as review in 2020 that it's being worked on

Journeyman Geek

@SonictheSaveUkraine-hog Nothing

Wait till its on the roadmap and flag it for attention

Shadow Wizard Hates Omicron

13:07

@SonictheSaveUkraine-hog which request?

Shadow Wizard Hates Omicron

13:45

!!/randomchoice black instant

SmokeDetector

@ShadowWizardHatesOmicron No such command 'randomchoice'.

Shadow Wizard Hates Omicron

(coffee)

buh I'll use a real bot instead ;)

in Shadow's Den, 10 secs ago, by FOX 9000

@ShadowWizardHatesOmicron I suggest you to drink black coffee, master Wizard.

Now that's a bot. :D

Example person

@ShadowWizardHatesOmicron, you previously asked this post for deletion, but it is still there!

Tinkeringbell

Liar. :P

Example person

@Tinkeringbell you deleted it right? lol so fast

Tinkeringbell

13:48

This one was 7 hours old, so I didn't see it before. I didn't scroll that far :)

But I usually keep track of the ones coming in during the day, while I'm awake, and handle those :D

Shadow Wizard Hates Omicron

@Exampleperson and? It just means none of the users I pinged are available.

(or agree it should be deleted, which is fine.)

Example person

@ShadowWizardHatesOmicron, hmm...

@ShadowWizardHatesOmicron right

Shadow Wizard Hates Omicron

@Tinkeringbell you could scroll until next year.... it was off the homepage lol

(score -8)

Tinkeringbell

@ShadowWizardHatesOmicron I'm usually on /questions though, sorted by newest ;)

I don't like 'active' or the homepage.

Spevacus

@ShadowWizardHatesOmicron Feel free to add me to the list of pings next time ;D

(That said I was asleep until about 20 mins ago so I wouldn't have seen it til now anyway)

Shadow Wizard Hates Omicron

13:51

@Tinkeringbell ohh.... well you can also scroll this list instead then. (just to find possible off topic questions that need to be closed and/or deleted.)

Tinkeringbell

Yaaawn. Nope :P

Too lazy ;)

Shadow Wizard Hates Omicron

lol

@Spevacus ;)

Example person

Now that we know staff can sometimes not have the "Staff" label (of-course due to minor bugs), we cannot distinguish between staff and hackers...

Shadow Wizard Hates Omicron

@Exampleperson not really

Merge always caused tons of bugs.

Example person

@ShadowWizardHatesOmicron I mean if they have 1 rep

how can you distinguish?

Shadow Wizard Hates Omicron

13:59

@Exampleperson of course I can't, and such cases should still be reported, but it would be very rare.

It's not like any new staff will have that bug now.

Example person

you're right.

they will probably fix it anyways

Journeyman Geek

@Exampleperson I think it was that one time lol

Example person

Right now data.stackexchange.com/stackoverflow/query/1086915/… shows that there are no more moderators like that.

DavidPostill

11

A: Who is Samuel Ordonez and why are they a moderator here?

They are staff. Something obviously went wrong with onboarding or an account merge and left them listed as a mod, but without the staff label. This has been fixed (and we'll follow up internally to see how we can prevent this from happening in the future). Thanks for your diligence. who is that ...

Example person

@DavidPostill I have read that already answer though.

Feeds

14:21

Qua qua qua is the sine qua non of sine qua non qua sine qua non.

Tinkeringbell

14:36

Oh hey the catcus is back! Hi!

How's life?

Or just you, if life is too big of an ask ;)

Shadow Wizard Hates Omicron

@Tinkeringbell ?

Tinkeringbell

Shadow Wizard Says No More War

I don't see any catcus around

Tinkeringbell

No, they're still there ;)

Shadow Wizard Says No More War

Maybe he misclicked, like @Bart doing too often. :D

Tinkeringbell

14:38

I did refresh the page, they're still here ;)

Shadow Wizard Says No More War

But idle

> talked 133d ago

Tinkeringbell

Doesn't stop me from saying hi ;)

Shadow Wizard Says No More War

Which is weird, could have swore I saw @Magi talking not long ago... hmm

Maybe messages moved?

Or time really fly by lol

Tinkeringbell

Also last time I saw them in here, I think it was with that generic geometric pattern thing as an avatar, not the catcus ;)

Shadow Wizard Says No More War

ohh... that might be correct.

Well I have new avatar :D

Not really related to my new name, not directly, but I really like that song, got hooked.

Weren't you planning to replace avatar? @Tink

Tinkeringbell

14:43

Not that I know of?

Why, something wrong with this one too? I don't see any phallic shapes this time...

Shadow Wizard Says No More War

lol

Magisch

14:56

@Tinkeringbell hi

Tinkeringbell

See @Sha it worked! :D

Magisch

It's okay, i'm very bummed out by the war in general because I have friends in russia and in the ukraine

But other then that, fine mostly

Tinkeringbell

Yeah, the war is bumming out a lot of people. I hope all your friends come out (relatively) unscathed :/

Good to hear you're otherwise mostly fine! Long time no see, anything specific bringing you back? :)

Magisch

not really

idle curiosity

Tinkeringbell

hahaha that's as good a reason as any! :D

Magisch

15:01

how have you been tink

Shadow Wizard Says No More War

@Tinkeringbell well you didn't ping him, I did. :P

Tinkeringbell

Pretty okay. Moved into my own place back in November (did we talk since then?).. There's a few last bits that need fixing by the builder, but nothing really major. And now that the weather is nicer, I can do more walking (I miss not having room for my treadmill here...) and it's making a difference in my overall energy levels so ... apart from the world falling apart with wars and inflation and stuff... I'm good :D

Shadow Wizard Says No More War

@Magisch yeah this really sucks. While no friends in either place, my opinions are more neutral than others, as in I don't call to destroy Russia

Rob

@JNat, For some reason I can't search the main StackExchange and find the Election Q&As - only two come up, and not the second link, your most recent post - are these posts excluded from being indexed?

Magisch

@ShadowWizardSaysNoMoreWar i definitely think sanctions need to continue until putin's government is but a very distant memory, and then russia needs to pay appropriate reparations, but that's not really my choice to enforce now is it?

Ideally you'd have responsible parties tried before the international court of justice but that's really unlikely

Tinkeringbell

15:06

Ideally there was a way to get to Putin and his regime that didn't also hurt the people that disagree with it. I mean, the ones that can are fleeing to Finland, but ... there are probably plenty that are both innocent and stuck between a rock and a hard place :/

Magisch

@Tinkeringbell That always the rub isn't it, in the end the only way to throw putin out is to make life for common people in russia so miserable that they do

Which is not fair towards them, but neither is getting invaded fair towards ukrainians

Tinkeringbell

@Magisch At this point, I doubt whether they can. Life in North Korea is apparently pretty miserable, yet no one has overthrown the government there yet either :/

Shadow Wizard Says No More War

@Magisch Well I also support the sanctions and everything, but it annoys me that there are people attacking companies and countries who don't ban Russia as well, SE included.

You don't join the ban? I'll ban you too!

This annoys me ^

Feeds

Rewriting Bash scripts in Go using black box testing

Guest Post on March 09, 2022

When rewriting software in a new language, how do you test that your new and old programs do the same thing?

Tinkeringbell

As long as Putin has a firm hold on both the military and the police and all the other institutions you can use to 'control' a state, there really isn't much you can do as a citizen but get arrested/killed for the sake of it.

Magisch

15:09

@ShadowWizardSaysNoMoreWar tbh I think that's legitimate if your goal is to maximize pressure on russia

Shadow Wizard Says No More War

@Magisch ban the non banners? Anything can be seen as justified and "legitimate" in war, sure.

Magisch

@Tinkeringbell failing the first, sanctions can still cripple russia enough economically to disable their ability to wage wars of agression ... hopefully

@ShadowWizardSaysNoMoreWar Thats also part of the rub. This is a war, so any method that's not a war crime to win it is kind of fair game

Or in this case, defend against the aggression. I don't begrudge ukraine for asking for non sanctioning countries to be sanctioned themselves in the least.

Tinkeringbell

@Magisch Yeah, hopefully.... I don't know. It would still hurt too many 'normal' people for my taste but I guess it's maybe the best outcome ... There was a news article here today that it was expected Russia would soon become a defaulter.

Shadow Wizard Says No More War

@Tinkeringbell don't forget China

Tinkeringbell

@ShadowWizardSaysNoMoreWar I wasn't aiming for an exhaustive list ;) Just picked a single example :P

Magisch

15:11

@Tinkeringbell It's a shit situation no matter how you spin it, the question is really just what is the marginally less shit outcome in this case.

Shadow Wizard Says No More War

It's all around the world, sadly only one is "featured", but better than nothing, I guess.

Magisch

There's not a good way out

Shadow Wizard Says No More War

If the enormous global ban on Russia will really stop the war, I'll be happy.

Tinkeringbell

@Magisch I'm just... I read the comments a bit too much, on a news site. There are so many people here griping about the prospect of being unable to get certain comforts, yet those same people are apparently very willing to subject others to the same lack of comfort (and much worse! If medieval torture were still allowed... I found you a bunch of torturers)... I find that a bit hypocritical XD So, I want to live in comfort and I want everyone else to be able to do the same.

Shadow Wizard Says No More War

@Feeds forgot to congratulate you for a successful onebox

Magisch

15:14

I guess i'm very much an absolutist on this because a proto fascist dictator waging wars of aggression is something that rubs me in all the wrong ways, and the last time europe tried appeasement to get out of a war with a guy like that it ended in 6 million people dying and ww2.

So on the back of that perspective I personally think anything but complete disabling of putin's government is an unacceptable outcome

Shadow Wizard Says No More War

@Magisch much more than 6m people died

6m is the Jewish people, but there were many others...

Today I read that around 400 civilians died in Ukraine so far. Way too many, of course, but can't be compared on any scale to WW2.

(or WW1)

tripleee

@tripleee still up, any new flaggers available?

Tinkeringbell

@ShadowWizardSaysNoMoreWar That's just the confirmed number so far, be prepared for that to go up a lot. Because it's really hard now to confirm numbers.

Shadow Wizard Says No More War

Well I do hope it will stop before the numbers rise, people also die from lack of food, not only bombings, which is more terrible.

Tinkeringbell

@tripleee Gone :)

tripleee

15:17

thanks!

Shadow Wizard Says No More War

@Tinkeringbell yeah, also true.

Tinkeringbell

@ShadowWizardSaysNoMoreWar I mean, that's kicking in an open door ;)

Magisch

@ShadowWizardSaysNoMoreWar Mhm. But this is also the start. When you give in to a dictator, they always want more. Think about how many could have been saved if the world reacted more decisively early on back then. This is why I don't like any compromise with the putin government

The basis for negotiation will have to be putin being ousted, after that they can talk

Shadow Wizard Says No More War

15:34

@Magisch back when? WW2? Things were different, hard to compare.

@Magisch who said his replacement won't be even worse? We can't really know.

World is full with madmen, sadly.

Kevin B

i mean

Journeyman Geek

15:52

@ShadowWizardSaysNoMoreWar history is cyclic

Something to point out tho

even if Ukraine loses..

no one's going to take the russian military seriously again

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