Tavern on the Meta

Journeyman Geek

00:11

twitter.com/tarynpivots/status/1450578209225904129

7

Looks like we're down another oldtimer :(

Spevacus

00:30

:(((((((((((

Shadow Wizard Is Vaccinated V3

07:07

@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog yup, though only one.

@cocomac who? I'll hit them with a small "s"! :D

@Sonic most likely such case again:

39

A: Non-serial voting corrected

Technically speaking, the entry is correct. There was a mass invalidation that occurred on several sites of our network. It was not a normal invalidation in the sense of a user was targeting a specific user. This user had been casting massive amounts of votes on sites across the network, sending ...

Either same user hitting again, or someone else doing same bad thing.

Journeyman Geek

→ 19 messages moved to Chimney

SPArcheon

07:39

Rainbow Dash - Uh, look at the time! We'd really better get going.

►

Shadow Wizard Is Vaccinated V3

?

SPArcheon

@ShadowWizardIsVaccinatedV3 look at the reply and look at the video, you will see the relationship

Journeyman Geek

@SPArcheon I somehow don't think you would have trouble asking 20 MLP questions

SO GET TO IT

Tinkeringbell

Question one: WHY?!

Journeyman Geek

\o/

I don't judge. Well usually

SPArcheon

07:48

@JourneymanGeek QUALITY questions?

Journeyman Geek

there's some things I judge

@SPArcheon Are you saying there's no quality questions to ask on MLP at all?

I mean, that's what it sounds like...

SPArcheon

@JourneymanGeek No, I am saying that I can't think of 20 different questions worth of asking on Stack.

Journeyman Geek

Then do it :D

SPArcheon

sorry typo

Journeyman Geek

@SPArcheon Excuses.

I question your commitment to the cause (tm)

Ryan M

07:50

Or just convince everyone that removing that requirement is a good idea. You're even the metaphorical poster child in the post :-p

SPArcheon

really, I am cursed.
I post only questions that I can't find an answer for. An this seems to always end up in **no one else** finding one too.

Shadow Wizard Is Vaccinated V3

@SPArcheon oh missed it's a reply

@SPArcheon this means one thing.... nobody knows more than you. :D

SPArcheon

08:06

@ShadowWizardIsVaccinatedV3 You know the old "let me google that for you"? If some users have a too low effort limit for posting a question.... I have the opposite problem

Not posting until it is impossible to answer in the first place.

Problem is that obviously it is not like the question does not have an answer (that would be closed) - just that no one seems to know on the whole web.

Journeyman Geek

@SPArcheon IMO that's usually a good question

SPArcheon

08:30

@JourneymanGeek yes, but also a good way to farm tumbleweed badges

4

Q: Demon's Soul - Where is the tutorial level, and are there two Gods?

Deep under the Stonefang Tunels, past the hall of the Firelurker, the Dragon God awaits in a deep cave for someone to face the fury of their fists.... or to turn them in a dragon kebab using the two nearby ballistae. Jokes aside, the Dragon God boss in Demon's Souls is fought in the depths of an...

see this for example.

Unless a dev comes in to answer...

Lately, I have been thinking of posting a question to ask if there is any clue in regard to how much was EA aware that the final three games in the Ultima series are basically Origin's version of Avada Kedavra to them... and their two founders specifically.

Because... let's be honest. The hidden message there is "please die"

Shadow Wizard Is Vaccinated V3

08:46

@SPArcheon yep

Rocket Nikita

Hey, @Sha!

I found an exploit that lets you view deleted questions

https://meta.stackexchange.com/posts/<question id here}/revisions

It might not work with all questions

or answers

Ryan M

@RocketNikita I am unable to reproduce with a logged-out browser session. What is an example working link?

Rocket Nikita

uhh

@Ryan meta.stackexchange.com/posts/10299/revisions

Ryan M

09:02

Huh. Yeah, that one works, and it is deleted...the question itself doesn't work, but that does.

Looks like a bug.

SPArcheon

10:04

@RyanM so, do you think I should give JNat an ultimatum? "Remove the requirement or face a flood of pony questions"? ^_^'

Journeyman Geek

10:15

@SPArcheon UNLEASH THE HORSIES!

Shadow Wizard Is Vaccinated V3

11:12

@RocketNikita hehe, I'm honored that you pinged me, out of everyone here. ;)

Anyway, no bug. By design.

10

Q: Why can I see the revision history of a deleted question?

I'm under 10k rep on Stack Overflow, so I can't see deleted content. I looked at this question from a meta post. When I visit the question page, I get the standard removed for moderation reasons message. But when I visit the revisions page for the post I'm able to see the revision history. When ...

bug status-bydesign deleted-questions revisions-list

/cc @RyanM

ymb1

His reason is incorrect, but his edit (itself) is correct. Your rollback is wrong because you replaced a correct tag with an incorrect one, see the tag's earliest usage (which defines the tag, if it's Wiki (and excerpt) is poorly written). — Rob 37 mins ago

@Rob re above, in that case, both descriptions are very clear

and thus global-inbox is more applicable

Tinkeringbell

11:39

Why are you all discussing the tags of one post, in the comments under another post? That was confusing...

Rocket Nikita

@ShadowWizardIsVaccinatedV3 Just checked if you are here, the exploit was for everyone

Journeyman Geek

@RocketNikita it isn't an exploit :D

Rocket Nikita

oh

magisch

12:23

@Tinkeringbell in case the final resolution interests you, I signed something for 50$ saying I release all past claims of copyright infringement related to the software and I give them a permanent non exclusive irrevocable license for the program

well 50€

according to them that is sufficient to satisfy the sticklers for liability and since it was them that contacted me to begin with and I had no intention to ever enforce the copyright on a throwaway exercise program from 6 years ago I'll just take it and leave it

The rationale they gave for wanting to pay me at all was exactly the thing someone mentioned yesterday, apparently a one sided promise is usually not enforceable so they frown upon that.

On a positive note, they were quite thankful that I was willing to put their concerns to rest and as far as I know my acquaintance did not receive any blowback for contacting me about it to start

SPArcheon

12:50

@magisch and now you have a new problem: you have to report that huge income to the local tax office.

Shadow Wizard Is Vaccinated V3

13:17

@RocketNikita it's not exploit

Tinkeringbell

@magisch That's what matters most :)

And 50€ isn't too bad either :P

Catija

@magisch Oh, hai! :D

Rob

@ymb1 The tag explains that the comment I am replying to here is incorrect: meta.stackexchange.com/tags/global-inbox/info meta.stackexchange.com/tags/notifications/info

ymb1

@Rob the wiki explains it better than the excerpt which is supposed to be the usage guidance -- I'll make an edit suggestion for the excerpt in a moment

Rob

13:35

... and in doing so you removed the usage guidance; you really need to leave the editing alone here. That's a few mistakes in a row. Read the FAQ for the tag wikis, please.

magisch

13:52

@SPArcheon I have to file my taxes this year anyways

@Catija Hai catija

long time no see, how are things?

Catija

Not bad - :) Trying to keep stuff together. Gus turns three on Saturday!

magisch

How is he?

Catija

Doing great. They both are. They're a pain in the ass but too cute to disown.

magisch

Thats great to hear

That y'all made it through the twilight zone that was 2020/21 without too many issues

Catija

Yeah. Everyone's been healthy so far. Just waiting on the jabs for the kids to get approved. Bennett will likely get his first - haven't heard anything about the under-fives, yet.

magisch

13:58

I already got mine, although I work with a lot of anti-vaccine people

ymb1

@Rob what's weird is that I added the usage guidance, and the irony is your rejection reason says: "Simply defining what a [tag] is rarely helps those using it unless the tag's name itself is ambiguous. Excerpts should describe why and when a tag should be used. See the help center for more guidance." -- defining a tag is what was there before my edit / I'll also @ @Tinkeringbell since they approved the suggestion, in case you have questions for them --

suggestion being talked about: meta.stackexchange.com/review/suggested-edits/79765

Tinkeringbell

@Rob :) Yeah I was struggling to write up something in reply to that... because it is clearly wrong. There wasn't any guidance on why and when to use that tag in the excerpt before the suggested edit to it.

I think ymb1 said all that needs to be said though :)

ymb1

@Tinkeringbell thank you! so I take it their "you really need to leave the editing alone here" is misplaced

Tinkeringbell

@ymb1 Yes. (Unless half the chatroom explodes and can tell me some very convincing reasons why that tag excerpt shouldn't be written the way it is now... but I seriously doubt it)

Shadow Wizard Is Vaccinated V3

planting 100 ton of TNT in Tavern

ymb1

14:07

well, if it explodes, I'll just hide behind you :D

Shadow Wizard Is Vaccinated V3

!!/explode Tavern

SmokeDetector

@ShadowWizardIsVaccinatedV3 No such command 'explode'.

Tinkeringbell

Good place to be... I'm probably wide enough to cover two :P

Shadow Wizard Is Vaccinated V3

@SmokeDetector :(

@Tinkeringbell good reason to reject diets! :D

Tinkeringbell

@ShadowWizardIsVaccinatedV3 Eh, but I want to be fit, so I can outrun the slowest person when chased by a bear, and increase my chances of survival :P

Shadow Wizard Is Vaccinated V3

14:10

@Tinkeringbell plan B is to just stand still. Wear something green, and bear might think you're a tree. :P

Tinkeringbell

Not half as much fun though XD

Shadow Wizard Is Vaccinated V3

Running is exhausting.

Plus, bonus for being a successful tree is that you get the bear to hug you. :D

Tinkeringbell

I hate bearhugs.

Shadow Wizard Is Vaccinated V3

Better than bearbites...

You get to keep your hands/legs/head. ;)

Tinkeringbell

Dunno. If the bear squeezes hard enough....

Shadow Wizard Is Vaccinated V3

14:14

Nah he knows trees got feelings.

Feeds

Why hooks are the best thing to happen to React

Ryan Donovan on October 20, 2021

Originally, React mainly used class components, which can be strenuous at times as you always had to switch between classes, higher-order components, and render props. With React hooks, you can now do all these without switching, using functional components.

Tinkeringbell

There was this car crash nearby this week, and the dude in the car got so crushed that medics had to do an amputation on the spot, to get him out of the car and to the hospital alive XD

Shadow Wizard Is Vaccinated V3

@Feeds best onebox today!

@Tinkeringbell ouch! Still, this week someone in Israel had even worse luck, he fell from 60 meters height on a car. (he didn't survive, car driver did, luckily.)

Tinkeringbell

What was he doing that high up to begin with?!

Shadow Wizard Is Vaccinated V3

Someone who clung to hot air balloon from below.

Police still trying to figure why exactly.

DavidPostill

14:17

@ShadowWizardIsVaccinatedV3 Definitely a Darwin award contender

Shadow Wizard Is Vaccinated V3

(he worked as ground operator, but should have left the ropes when the balloon rise up, it's pretty much common sense)

heh it's even on CNN.

hmm looks like the initial report I read was wrong, he didn't fall on a car.

Catija

@magisch That sounds like it could be stressful - are you able to work from home?

Shadow Wizard Is Vaccinated V3

Well, lucky for the drivers...

Kevin B

@Feeds hooks in react are awful

magisch

14:55

@Catija partially, although i'm fully vaccinated so less concerned for myself

Catija

@magisch Yeah. Andy's work is trying to make everyone come back to the office and they've had a few people refuse because they have family at home who either can't be vaccinated or have a condition that makes it high-risk even if they are.

Kevin B

that sounds awful

magisch

what gets me is all these people who think vaccines are genetic experimentation

Catija

... honestly, I can at least understand that one, even if I think it's idiotic. What really confuses me is people who think it's a way to get microchips into you.

magisch

really, someone flagged that? ok I guess

I think i'm not all that in tune with the formal speaking style of this place anymore

Tinkeringbell

15:03

I had to google what sovcit was before forming an opinion on the flag... was about to meh it though.

Catija

The Tavern is formal?

I didn't know what it meant, either.

Tinkeringbell

Very much, we wear tuxedo's these days.

Journeyman Geek

I was going to google it

Catija

:is still in PJs:

Journeyman Geek

At work in T shirts and shorts

Tinkeringbell

15:04

@Catija From what I read in the first lines of wikipedia, it's some sort of politically held belief/direction.

Journeyman Geek

cause its a night shift and the aircon is half busted as opposed to fuully busted

magisch

It means sovereign citizen, it's a movement of people who think laws don't apply to them because they can cite the magna carta

Tinkeringbell

Hoodie and sweatpants here :)

Journeyman Geek

@magisch If its a traditional vaccine? Mercury and autism...

magisch

or in the german context, some 15th century feudal stuff

Journeyman Geek

15:05

I checked what's in my vaccine and... most of it is edible

Ekadh Singh - Reinstate Monica

@magisch The reason I flagged is because some people (though not me) have those views, and it looked (to me) like you were making fun of those views. I didn’t flag because of a lack of formality.

Kevin B

sigh

magisch

@EkadhSingh-ReinstateMonica oh I am making fun of those people definitely

same way I do of flat earthers

Journeyman Geek

@EkadhSingh-ReinstateMonica Oh god, Does that mean I can't rant about how stupid it is?

@magisch We have sovrign citizen folks here...

magisch

I think it's a demented and tremendously stupid view and usually the people following it are really odious and annoying on top

Journeyman Geek

15:06

Actually I need to find the news article

Tinkeringbell

@JourneymanGeek I saw a good retort for those who believe that the vaccine was developed too quickly (only works in the bible belt though :P): "And creating a whole earth in six days isn't?" :D

Journeyman Geek

its just too... batsty

magisch

I mean, I haven't checked recently if I just violated the CoC. I hope not

I didn't intend to, anyways

Journeyman Geek

@magisch its fine

Tinkeringbell

@magisch "Language likely to alienate or offend"... if a sovcit drops by, you're in trouble.

magisch

15:07

hmm

Journeyman Geek

straitstimes.com/singapore/courts-crime/…

that skips all the good parts

magisch

can you help me get rid of the exchange then tink?

I can neither move them into trash myself nor delete them

Tinkeringbell

I'll get to it.

magisch

<3

at my usual haunts these days the rules are a bit less formal

Journeyman Geek

Oh and this one scmp.com/news/asia/southeast-asia/article/3082883/…

(the first one, dude LOST HIS JOB, and got deported...)

@EkadhSingh-ReinstateMonica not word from above - and we're still discussing that but....

As adults - if someone has a specific issue with that, its probably worth bringing it up

Unless is a matter of, well personal safety, or its a heated arguement ongoing that needs putting up, talking about stuff like that, least to me, is better

Ekadh Singh - Reinstate Monica

15:16

@JourneymanGeek I don’t have a specific issue with that message, but I flagged because there’s are some people who would/do. Next time I’ll bring it up before flagging, though. (Also, I’m not an adult :P)

Journeyman Geek

Act like one.

:D

I think the problem is "some people might" is - there's a potential to chill speech that's harmless

Tinkeringbell

@magisch Actually I don't know what to pick so just chat more :P

Ekadh Singh - Reinstate Monica

@JourneymanGeek fair enough. Thanks for explaining :)

Journeyman Geek

as much as the 'letter' of the rules matter - its worth considering the spirit of them

the COC is meant to protect folks in various situations - but actual folks, and in some cases the 'rules' need to be used with common sense and awareness of the situation

Kevin B

i think in this case flagging is more disruptive than the message itself, even if there were someone here that'd be offended by it

Journeyman Geek

15:20

yup

Rocket Nikita

@Sha I already have been told so

magisch

@EkadhSingh-ReinstateMonica I know you don't know me, but if you tell me that you take issue with something in the edit window i'll always edit or delete it

I don't come here trying to ruffle anyone's feathers

(especially not those of the parrot, that is a mistake you make only once)

Journeyman Geek

Even if te parrot is currently lacking features

Tinkeringbell

features? :P

Journeyman Geek

feathers

autocucmber strikes again

2

magisch

15:23

look upsetting tink is a bad idea either way

considering that upsetting her is pretty hard

when you manage to you're usually screwed

Tinkeringbell

I bite :P

magisch

on the discord server I help at i'm considered the most lenient when it comes to bans

Kevin B

🚽

magisch

although we're pretty strict when it comes to racism, homophobia and transphobia compared to similar servers

Tinkeringbell

@magisch My brother started moderating somewhere too... He's also still in his 'lenient' phase :P Doesn't dare to push buttons, can't really smell a troll from 1 feet away yet... He'll grow into it ;)

magisch

15:26

I'm not in my lenient phase

I'm just a generally relaxed guy

I have no issues yeeting the hell out of people who have it coming :)

I've mellowed out quite a bit compared to my early stack days

Tinkeringbell

We're opposites, then XD

magisch

well

a lot of people find out that white supremacist talk doesn't fly on our discord and then they moan in ban appeals that their ban was political

and then we decline the appeal

because our server our rules, and our rules is that we dislike racists enough to just not let them in at all

Tinkeringbell

@magisch Well, rules are rules. And with Discord, there's probably another group out there that suits their needs more ;)

magisch

In developing mod guidelines and such we were actually pretty heavily inspired by the way the people I know at stack work

especially shog's wisdom

I hope shog is doing well and at a shiny new job

Tinkeringbell

I saw some pictures on Twitter... not about his job but they were looking nice :)

magisch

15:36

shog is probably the single person who affected my personal and professional development positively the most

Tinkeringbell

Gotta run, dinner is ready... just a few more weeks and I can stay and chat as long as I like :P

magisch

I'm even glad he suspended me way back then because it helped me calm down and set me straight and I had it coming

PM 2Ring

Hey, @magisch, for your licensing issue, consider the MIT rather than CC0. It's pretty simple, and very popular. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIT_License OTOH, CC0 is probably the closest thing to releasing your code to the public domain while still being a licence.

magisch

@PM2Ring These days I use cc0 for everything

When I release or contribute stuff publicly, I want it to be public. I want people to be able to use it any way they want to.

as far as I understand it the only reason cc0 is a license is because some jurisdictions do not recognize dedications to the public domain

PM 2Ring

@magisch Fair enough. It was created for data, but you can use it for code, too.

@magisch That's correct. CC0 may not fully satisfy those jurisdictions, but it tries its best to do so, as the Creative Commons CC0 FAQ explains. :)

magisch

15:48

I looked it up and it said cc0 is appropriate for code if you just want to public domain it

Journeyman Geek

@PM2Ring MIT has an attribution clause and nothing else if memory serves?

magisch

It's basically a way of saying "use this any way you want, don't bother me about it" which is exactly what I want

Journeyman Geek

And my memory here isn't great since I don't write code :D

magisch

I really don't care if someone uses something and doesn't credit me, or even claims it as their own

I don't contribute public code to farm recognition, but so that someone sometime may get some use out of it

PM 2Ring

@JourneymanGeek Pretty much. You can read it on that Wikipedia page I linked. All the Wikipedia pages on software licensing are quite good.

magisch

15:52

I might have a different stance towards copyright if I made my living writing copyrighted works

But personally nothing I do privately has any copyright on it

PM 2Ring

Most of the code I publish these days is on some Stack Exchange site, so it's CC-By-SA. But Creative Commons specifically say that their licences are unsuitable for software. Oh well. :)

magisch

iirc the free software foundation says cc0 is approved for software

and compatible with open source products

even though it's a creative commons license

PM 2Ring

FWIW, Creative Commons recommend against using Creative Commons licenses for software. See here for details. We use CC-BY-SA licenses here because Stack Overflow posts are effectively a form of documentation that (may) contain code samples. They are not intended to be a primary software distribution mechanism. — PM 2Ring Oct 12 '20 at 23:08

@magisch Sort of, but they don't describe it as a license. From wiki.creativecommons.org/wiki/…

magisch

Anyways, I wasnt able to find a better license that's essentially a public domain dedication

PM 2Ring

May I apply CC0 to computer software? If so, is there a recommended implementation?

Yes, CC0 is suitable for dedicating your copyright and related rights in computer software to the public domain, to the fullest extent possible under law. Unlike CC licenses, which should not be used for software, CC0 is compatible with many software licenses, including the GPL. However, CC0 has not been approved by the Open Source Initiative and does not license or otherwise affect any patent rights you may have.

Rob

16:37

> "The global inbox contains information from across the entire network, including hot questions, a list of all sites, an inbox of @responses directed at you, and notifications of badges and ending bounties.".

meta.stackoverflow.com/tags/global-inbox/info s

- Written by shog: meta.stackoverflow.com/posts/250658/revisions

3 hours ago, by Tinkeringbell

@ymb1 Yes. (Unless half the chatroom explodes and can tell me some very convincing reasons why that tag excerpt shouldn't be written the way it is now... but I seriously doubt it)

Is that convincing?

Tinkeringbell

@Rob Not really, no. "Because Shog wrote it like that" is actually the worst argument you could've tried to pull on me.

Why was it written that way, and why should it remain written that way over the way it's written now? If the answer is just 'Shog' then it's not a satisfying answer.

ymb1

What should a tag wiki excerpt contain?: Avoid generically defining the concept behind a tag / Provide basic guidance on when to use the tag. In other words, what kinds of questions should have this tag? --

-- and yes, many get it wrong, I didn't, and to put this issue to rest, hopefully: you said, "That's a few mistakes in a row", but I had already explained the first one I did not edit, I commented, and Sonic edited, and the wrong tag was because of the misused excerpt, which I fixed

Shadow Wizard Is Vaccinated V3

17:02

tagging the tag

ymb1

and for the history:

Redesigned Tags Page

Jeff Atwood on March 24, 2011

In the spirit of our recent redesign of the users page, we felt it was time to enhance the tags page, too. As you can see, the tags page now shows a bit more information about each tag, namely: The first three lines of the tag wiki excerpt for the tag. The number of questions…

excerpting the wiki

Shadow Wizard Is Vaccinated V3

status-one-picture-broken-box

Huh no wonder it's broken.

Kevin B

i suspect that blog entry wasn't meant to be published

oh,

it's just really old

:p

SPArcheon

17:19

I appreciate all your talking about tags but really...

you should be discussing about removing that 100 questions requirement instead.

(or posting the 19 questions I still need)

and yes @JourneymanGeek, I said 19 this time

Journeyman Geek

18 more to go

I mean 19

Rob

@Tinkeringbell As you can see, he didn't write it at all, he copied it from animuson: meta.stackexchange.com/revisions/125951/5

SPArcheon

@JourneymanGeek new feature request? Pay bounties for new questions?

Tinkeringbell

@Rob So? When I said 'convincing reasons', I didn't mean an argument from authority.

All you do is quote names at me, that doesn't explain why the tag can't be what it is now and should've remained in a form that seemingly contradicts all guidance on what to use the excerpt for out there.

ymb1

17:43

/whispers including the text of the rejection reason 🙄

Meta Andrew T.

18:38

I feel there's a little UI/UX update on "x new questions"/"x questions with activity" clickable banner on the questions list. Much more Stack™-y.

Kevin B

it looked buggy to me, almost as if it was to wide for it's location

V2Blast

21:06

!!/tea

SmokeDetector

@V2Blast brews a cup of darjeeling tea for @V2Blast

Sonic the Anonymous Hedgehog

23:32

Updated to Android 12 and the Stack Exchange app no longer works, crashes when opening... (@MetaAndrewT.)

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