Tavern on the Meta

Journeyman Geek

00:02

Bags are not great for holding screws

😁

Also you can eat the cookies

Rob

01:01

@Shog9 If offered as a prize will it be filled with chipmunks?

Feeds

01:53

OCEAN PLAY AREA RULES: No running, no horseplay, no megatsunamis, and no trying to pry the wreck of the Titanic off the bottom.

Shog9

@Rob depends; how many chipmunks can you eat?

Ryan M

This Law.SE regular would like to point out that you'd be on much sturdier legal ground if you filled it with live bees, which, unlike live chipmunks, can be legally mailed.

Catija

02:11

@Shog9 oh. That's the one Abby gave me. They're pretty nice.

Rob

@Shog9 The recipe calls for 3 so 12-15 should be good. Thanks.

Catija

Isn't live bees a meme or something?

Shog9

02:53

Ok. So how do we disguise chipmunks as bees?

Rob

03:16

Chipmunk pinata, filled with bees.

rene

07:13

→ 21 messages moved to Chimney

Luuklag

07:43

@Tinkeringbell Well re-reading it, it doesn't come off very friendly, but that wasn't my intention. It was more like if you feel that its vorderline wethernir not to put out an announcement you beter watch Meta after a few hours after you push the change to build.

Then there would be less of a problem

Tinkeringbell

@Luuklag Still, watching != writing an answer immediately... But that does sounds a tiny bit nicer, yeah.

Luuklag

08:24

@Tinkeringbell correct, but leaving a comment that the change was intended and that you are going to write an elaborate answer would ve nice.

Journeyman Geek

08:38

@Luuklag voderline wethenir?

Tinkeringbell

Luuklag seems to have a hard time typing today... it's freezing outside so I assume cold fingers :P

Journeyman Geek

@Luuklag I guess its a balance between a few things.

Is it a ...

There are probably children out there holding down spacebar to stay warm in the winter! YOUR UPDATE MURDERS CHILDREN.

or something that's actually breaking? I don't think the capitalisation is the 'real' issue for most, its a change in workflow/muscle memory and scripts breaking

Sonic the Curiouser Hedgehog

For many, it's simply an eye-jarring change to suddenly see a design change from what they've been accustomed to for, in this case, 12 years

Journeyman Geek

08:55

which leads to another question that might need to be handled delicately...

Why not changelogs?

Shadow Wizard is Vaccinating

@SonictheCuriouserHedgehog moving cheese isn't new in SO/SE, in the past Jeff used to do this often, and annoy many, most extreme change was the envelope that became.... something else. Super useful feature (inbox/notifications) that out of the blue switches position, changed all texts, etc.

I thought it became better over the years, but... it didn't.

rene

@JourneymanGeek needs discipline and time. The first might be do-able, creating time is an issue ...

Journeyman Geek

@rene or baked in as part of the process. And something that saves time

Shadow Wizard is Vaccinating

SE still push changes without telling anyone and without caring who is affected.

Journeyman Geek

hence delicately :D

@ShadowWizardisVaccinating eh, I think we ought to give the benefit of the doubt that it was seen as a minor change

rene

09:02

I do not think it is not caring. It just not wanting to have an upfront discussion about it.

Journeyman Geek

the ways we use the site is very different from non power users, and SE still has a bit of trouble with tackling meta by the looks of things

Tinkeringbell

I would've treated some 'spelling' changes as minor myself (have done so in the past with e.g. error messages missing a letter...). What I wouldn't have done is have buttons switch positions without some heads-up.

And despite what Catija says, I never ever saw the buttons on more than 1 row on my PC.

Journeyman Geek

"Ugh, this is wierd. I just need to move it to stacks and"

"WHY THE PITCHFORKS? AND TORCHES?"

Tinkeringbell

Usually people do shout while carrying those and you can figure out why :P

Journeyman Geek

@Tinkeringbell it feels like a lot of the anger is over capitalisation

Tinkeringbell

09:06

Though... there was this British? bit of reporting about storming the Capitol and they asked one of those 'Muricans what purpose there was to doing so... and the answer was something like 'how should I know'.... sooooooooo

Maybe I'm overestimating the pitchfork people.

Journeyman Geek

that's Capitol :D

Shadow Wizard is Vaccinating

@JourneymanGeek if it was only changing the case then sure, minor indeed. But adding a new button, causing the buttons to span more than one line and look totally different.... big UX change, and a bad one, in my opinion.

Meta Andrew T.

Capitolism ho!

Journeyman Geek

@ShadowWizardisVaccinating on mobile/smaller screens I guess.

but I don't know how SE tests for these things.

Shadow Wizard is Vaccinating

I'm 100% sure UX expert can come with a decent way to make it look good. They simply didn't consult one.

Tinkeringbell

09:11

@ShadowWizardisVaccinating The Rollback button apparently isn't new btw ;)

Shadow Wizard is Vaccinating

I'm the first to admit my design is horrible, when I'm making changes in sites without design given to me, the result is terrible.

Journeyman Geek

@ShadowWizardisVaccinating they probably have ones on staff

Shadow Wizard is Vaccinating

@Tinkeringbell well maybe the envelope will suddenly be back too then, when they find Jeff changes were actually a bug.... :P

@JourneymanGeek no, my screen is big, the width of the whole content area is fixed.

Journeyman Geek

@ShadowWizardisVaccinating I know

I run 4k and space usage is horribad

it does stack well 2 up, no pun intended but I rarely do that

Tinkeringbell

Yeah, if they just make the actual area with question/answer a bit wider and the whitespace on the left and right smaller, there wouldn't have been a need to put these links in multiple rows on big screens...

I don't even have a 'big' screen, just a regular sized one... and there's plenty of whitespace!

Shadow Wizard is Vaccinating

09:18

@Tinkeringbell same

They can, for example, revamp the whole thing by using icons for the action links, same way they did in the top bar.

This way it will always fit in one line.

Journeyman Geek

@ShadowWizardisVaccinating uh... icons? In this crowd?

won't fly

Shadow Wizard is Vaccinating

It works in top bar.

Journeyman Geek

I guess a question that should be asked is "what resolution causes double stacking?"

Luuklag

@JourneymanGeek borderline wether or

Journeyman Geek

1080p oughtn't to and is safe

Tinkeringbell

09:20

Yeah I doubt changing to icons would be received better than capitalizing the first letter XD

Luuklag

Fat fingers on mobile xD

Journeyman Geek

1366 wide is the narrowest modern resolution?

Shadow Wizard is Vaccinating

@JourneymanGeek it's not just resolution, it's amount of buttons. When it's 6 for example, it will always span few lines.

Journeyman Geek

@ShadowWizardisVaccinating I get a single row no matter what

Shadow Wizard is Vaccinating

@JourneymanGeek even here?

Another idea: have a single "Actions" button, that will open a pop up menu with all possible actions.

Having them spread like that is just..... not good.

Luuklag

09:26

and its not like there isn't enough space...

Journeyman Geek

@ShadowWizardisVaccinating Ok, 2 rows theere

Sonic the Curiouser Hedgehog

@ShadowWizardisVaccinating Two clicks are never better than one

Shadow Wizard is Vaccinating

09:44

@JourneymanGeek which makes it even worse, you don't know how many there will be, and the buttons are in different location for each question.

Journeyman Geek

@SonictheCuriouserHedgehog I think that where possible, things should be as shallow as possible

Shadow Wizard is Vaccinating

@SonictheCuriouserHedgehog this will be, for me. By far.

I hate jumping content, and button that appear in different position, is exactly this.

Luuklag

@ShadowWizardisVaccinating I think we can put them by default on 2 lines. And show all buttons in a fixed place

Its not like usercards are ever going to be flat enough that these links are the highest bit of info there

@JNat cross site spammer: stackexchange.com/users/20254655/robert-townsend

lets get a new list started

rene

10:29

@ShadowWizardisVaccinating just move the actions down to a full row under the post, in the free space run an ad. Win-win.

Sonic the Curiouser Hedgehog

10:49

@rene Breaks the flow for ad-block users

rene

We don't want that ...

Sonic the Curiouser Hedgehog

SE is, after all, paid per click for ads, not per view, so they'll actually be saving money by not serving ads to people who don't click on them

In the ad preferences page for 200+ rep users, they explicitly discourage users who won't click on ads from enabling ads just to increase revenue

Shadow Wizard is Vaccinating

11:28

@Luuklag yes, that will do too.

@rene +1 no ice cream! :D

Luuklag

13:46

@JNat cross site spammer: stackexchange.com/users/19946310/johnkammy

Luuklag

14:13

@JNat cross site spammer: stackexchange.com/users/20451062/tamara-harding

Catija

15:19

@ShadowWizardisVaccinating That... seems like it could be a bit annoying. Some of the items there create modals of their own (Share, Mod)... and losing the immediate view of a post that has close votes or an edit suggestion would be detrimental in some cases.

Ryan M

+1 ^ that's how you get user interfaces that are beautiful but are completely horrible to use unless you already know where everything is

Rob

@Martin, welcome to the 10K club.

Feeds

Have the tables turned on NoSQL?

Ryan Donovan on January 14, 2021

NoSQL climbed up the charts as the next big thing in system architecture in 2011, but overall interest in it has plateaued recently. You’ve may have heard of it and ignored it, safe in the knowledge that you can always have a an SQL command line at your fingertips. But what is NoSQL, what does…

user400654

15:50

🚾

Journeyman Geek

16:05

Before I go to sleep - here's a list of the se cookies and their categories, via the cookie setting page stackoverflow.com/legal/cookie-policy#C0003-list

Ollie

17:50

@Journeyman Nearly 100K! Do you get swag?

Shadow Wizard is Vaccinating

18:58

@Ollie no swag for MSE rep

(as it's, after all, a meta site.)

@user400654 men or women?

user400654

19:14

@ShadowWizardisVaccinating yes

Tinkeringbell

@ShadowWizardisVaccinating I've never heard a toilet complain about either...

Catija

20:15

So... which cookies should I turn on... all except targeting?

Tinkeringbell

Depends on how much you care... I usually just accept all because I like to think I have nothing to hide and don't hang out in any shady internet parts.

Catija

20:32

I mean, I don't, either but that doesn't mean that I want to have everything I do be visible to people who just want to sell me crap.

Tinkeringbell

Then you care enough to disable targetting ;)

user400654

i mean

who cares if they want to sell you crap if you block all the ads

Tinkeringbell

That's generally my attitude too, though there is something to be said for not allowing those types of companies that earn extra money by letting you be targetted to earn that money by turning of targeting cookies.

user400654

i'd rather be one more targeted user that advertisers get 0 clicks/real views from

Tinkeringbell

20:48

@user400654 Yeah, it's a balance between one or the other earning money off of you :P

Rob

@Luuklag Yikes, imagine on a 1280x640; and yet the problem remains unfixed.

Luuklag

@Rob Yeah that's amazing. I think I get the design rationale though. They want some spacing between the title and the row below, with active, view etc.

Good fix would be to set the spacing on the row below, to keep the difference between the title and the row, but not in between the title

Rob

Yes, but the spacing to the next line isn't bad, it's the spacing of wraparound text in the same sentence that has escaped their observation.

Luuklag

yeah I know

But if you have only a one line title, and you want some space between that and the next row, you can set line heigth on either of those rows

if you then forget that one of those rows could wrap, your screwed

Rob

The fix is to align to top instead of height (need to lookup correct CSS terminology, in the middle of a call ATM) - back in 15.

Luuklag

21:04

It's all stackified, so they just have to select a different header for the title there.

Rob

21:43

... and do more extensive testing before committing to the changes.

Journeyman Geek

23:35

@Ollie only one way to find out

@Catija imo yes

Mithical

gone

Spevacus

My hero.

Mithical

you need better heroes

Spevacus

Probably.

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