Tavern on the Meta

John Dvorak

14:02

but SO is great because it enforces the former

mag

usually genuine human interaction on the web only happens in sheltered social spaces, e.g. this chat

Rubiksmoose

@mag I guess that comes down to what you consider genuine human interaction. We deal with people on a very personal basis in mainsite questions as well on RPG. But, even more broadly, it really comes down to how people expect a given space to function doesn't it?

Andy

Sad day that such a legality exists. But I wouldn't be surprised if the network overall became 18+ soon especially with the COPPA revisions coming in the US. — mag 7 hours ago

I'm out of the loop (heh), what COPPA changes are coming?

mag

@Andy youtube is on fire over it right now

something about data collection and marked children's content

Rubiksmoose

@JohnDvorak In some ways it does, but it seems like recently they want to shift towards being a space where people are treated as people and not just anonymous keyboards with a coding problem.

mag

14:08

@Rubiksmoose I mean, in the context of strict Q/A or a strict form of discussion, real human interaction always gets modulated. And as long as people are anonymous or can be anonymous, social accountability doesn't exist.

John Dvorak

@Rubiksmoose ... and that's inevitably going to bite them in the assassin.

mag

this chat works in that way because we know each other and are socially accountable to each other

Andy

@mag That's probably why I missed it. :\ I don't watch a lot of youtube and especially not meta-youtube

Journeyman Geek

@Rubiksmoose that needs...social interaction

John Dvorak

For chat, great. For the Q&A section, not so.

Rubiksmoose

14:11

@JourneymanGeek I don't mean to be pedantic here honestly, but what counts as social interaction? In a lot of ways I consider QA to be inherently social, and that is certainly much more clear when you look at the "softer", non-SO sites.

Journeyman Geek

@Rubiksmoose on SU - I do try to actively engage the community. Those people are not computer problems with a keyboard

How do you know people if you won't talk to them?

Rubiksmoose

But really I'm not arguing one is more right than the other, but more pointing out the observation that some of the conflict is coming from mismatched expectations: some users expect this to be a space where you are anonymous and don't expect to be treated with any kind of humanising actions and there are those expecting or trying to make this a space where people are considered people first and foremost and that their personhood is important. And of course there is plenty of grey area.

It's almost certainly not a revolutionary or novel thought, but it was something that just recently clicked for me.

John Dvorak

Either way, asking what race they are is going to be detrimental to future interactions no matter the answer

JAD

@Rubiksmoose Then the question is whether those non-SO sites really matter in the eyes of Corp.

John Dvorak

If the don't why all this inclusivity kerfuffle? SO proper doesn't have issue with gender inclusivity!

Rubiksmoose

14:16

@JAD That's definitely one of many questions, for sure. The recent blog post definitely came across as a huge slap to any non-SO site to me.

JAD

@JohnDvorak Who knows?

John Dvorak

What was the last blog post that wasn't offensive to a good chunk of the userbase?

Tinkeringbell

@Rubiksmoose There's loads of grey area... I keep saying IPS isn't there to offer people hugs and hot chocolate... but we do need to keep in mind that we're dealing with people and personal problems, for example.

ArtOfCode

!!/alive

SmokeDetector

@ArtOfCode ... good question

ArtOfCode

14:23

!!/reboot

John Dvorak

!!/hug

!!/chocolate

!!/coffee

SmokeDetector

@JohnDvorak brews a cup of Americano for @JohnDvorak

John Dvorak

OK... that's bad.

I'll give you another chance.

!!/coffee

SmokeDetector

@JohnDvorak brews a cup of Ristretto for @JohnDvorak

John Dvorak

That's better

Muchbetter. Iknewyoucouldmakeadecentdrink.

Rubiksmoose

14:27

@Tinkeringbell Yup, same with RPG to some extent.

Shadow The Princess Wizard

OK, feeling better now. That new feedback mechanism isn't what I expected, but hey... could be worse.

!!/tea Pandya

SmokeDetector

@ShadowThePrincessWizard brews a cup of passionfruit tea for @Pandya

John Dvorak

How do you propose to make it worse?

Shadow The Princess Wizard

Plus, OEE daily report appears to be working.

@JohnDvorak feedback only through contact form, closing all meta sites right away.

John Dvorak

Isn't that pretty much what's happening?

Shadow The Princess Wizard

14:30

@JohnDvorak nope

Journeyman Geek

@ShadowThePrincessWizard the feedback form has a bit of a ...

Shadow The Princess Wizard

Meta is staying for some more time, at least.

John Dvorak

@ShadowThePrincessWizard formally

Shadow The Princess Wizard

@JohnDvorak it's only formal for several years.

Its main purpose is to let us rant and let off steam. ;)

Hitodama

on an unrelated notice, the site (nope, not meta, the other site) is still there and I am quite content with that.

Normally it would be archived by now, so maybe my wish will be granted.

Shadow The Princess Wizard

14:36

Winter site?

Hitodama

yep

Shadow The Princess Wizard

hehe

No hats for us, we were bad kids.

Hitodama

@ShadowThePrincessWizard coal hat?

Shadow The Princess Wizard

@Hitodama too much work

We don't deserve their dev time.

Hitodama

@ShadowThePrincessWizard I am not really wanting to start that kind of argument. But no mater the reason, if this year gets skipped it is fine for me.

Shadow The Princess Wizard

14:39

Of course. Intended to tick "I hate hats" for the first time ever, or just ignore the hats, which would be bit harder.

But they took even this choice from my hands. ;(

Stevoisiak supports Monica

Is the Winter Bash not happening this year?

mag

most likely not

doesn't look like dev resources will be spent on it

Hitodama

@ShadowThePrincessWizard let's just say that my last interaction with anything related to the event will be that final knitting I posted in the other room.

Shadow The Princess Wizard

@StevoisiaksupportsMonica looks like that, yeah. The previous winterbash site is still up, while at this time of year in previous years it was taken down since they started working on the new one.

(and obviously didn't want us to see it while it's developed :))

Hitodama

@ShadowThePrincessWizard they have different ulrs, you know....

but you are right on the "archived" part

on an unrelated notice, who is the "crazy one" who chose the artwork for the Switch Hello Neighbor Hide&Seek box cover?

Stevoisiak supports Monica

15:08

...we should flag comments that call someone a bigot, right?

Journeyman Geek

Well, if you think it needs to go, sure

Rubiksmoose

15:25

@StevoisiaksupportsMonica I can't really imagine many cases where such comments would be considered respectful or productive.

If there's problems with a post or another behavior, flagging would be the way to solve that without escalating things on MSE, not starting a comment argument if that's the case.

mag

words to the wise from the somehow sentient rubikscube :P

Stevoisiak supports Monica

This whole thing has pushed out more good users than bad.

It's become an angry Reddit hivemind

CptEric

welp i constructively answered the survey despite the thing being asked.

hope it gets somewhere.

Stevoisiak supports Monica

15:43

Is there a channel I can fill with internal screaming

Because that's what I feel like doing right now

Tinkeringbell

@StevoisiaksupportsMonica Notepad ++

Has been successful for several users here already, including moi!

Stevoisiak supports Monica

That did make me feel better

Tinkeringbell

Try copy pasting it a few times... even better ;)

CptEric

write it as a C script, dark background, green text, randomized tab spaces, a infinite loop to print, and you have Screaming Matrix.

Stevoisiak supports Monica

Me internally.

Tinkeringbell

15:50

Heh... that one is quite funny, actually.

CptEric

so, what's up?

Stevoisiak supports Monica

I finished Yakuza 0 last week

CptEric

neat. i beat the new star wars game last week myself.

Hitodama

@Tinkeringbell I am not sure that it would be very constructive for me to just accept SE as a fuel for my inner Aggretsuko.

CptEric

how's Yakuza 0? never played the saga

Hitodama

16:01

that said, maybe we could create a Meta Heavy Meta(L) user group to vent our anger Retsuko style.

not really my genre though.

CptEric

as long as spiked armbands with the SO logo are handed in, i'm in.

Feeds

Copying code from Stack Overflow? You might be spreading security vulnerabilities

Ryan Donovan on November 26, 2019

We know that Stack Overflow is a daily part of a lot of developers’ lives. I’ve heard from multiple people that they come here daily (if not more often) to get answers to their questions. Sometimes the answer to a question about code comes as a chunk of code. And sometimes that code makes it into production applications because it answered the question perfectly.

A group of researchers investigated these code snippets to see how secure they were, and if the security flaws that they introduced remained vulnerable in the project. Ashkan Sami, Associate Professor at Shiraz University, Foutse …

Hitodama

Before Meta

After Meta

Yep, seems appropriate.

Kevin B

@Feeds duh

CptEric

i just hope that those vulnerabilities detectors aren't as sensible as my sonarqube

Stevoisiak supports Monica

16:12

@CptEric Yakuza 0 was great. First one in the series I'd played

As someone who'd never played the series before, it's a very good intro

> After several rounds of review, they boiled down to 69 vulnerabilities that we could with some certainty state they are vulnerable.

Nice

rene

@CptEric sonarqube rejects all my code, just to prevent any mishaps.

CptEric

weakness != bug though, depending on the sensor.

mine tells me uppercased constants are not fun in kotlin and tags them as critical bugs.

\o/

Stevoisiak supports Monica

Someone pointed out one of my most popular answers inherently had a memory leak. I already hadn't been proud of my answer, so I added a warning to the top.

CptEric

i once was called out by certain lead of certain coloured logo company that their component wasn't designed to work like that and that my accepted answer hack was terrible.

Stevoisiak supports Monica

The issue comes when the top answer is bad, but nobody's suggested a better alternative

CptEric

16:20

i have the inner hope that the horrors of my student-era code made recyclerview exist.

Hitodama

On SharePoint, most users would probably be content with a "vulnerable answer"...

Stevoisiak supports Monica

That was a good blog post. I'd like to see more like it

CptEric

yup

mag

@Tinkeringbell one good thing is if you don't post you get to use all the profanity and sailor language you want

CptEric

sailor language lol

Tinkeringbell

16:28

@mag Yep!

There's been more f---s in notepad lately than sprinkles on sandwiches ;)

Hitodama

totally unrelated, do anyone remember WHEN in FF7 Marlene and Barret went to the church near Aerith house? I remember Marlene in the church in the Advent Children movie but not in the game

Rob

It's "swear like a longshoreman" or "swear like a trucker" - this is "sailor language":

I's The B'y - Dick Nolan - Lyrics ,

►

curious

→ 13 messages moved to Chimney

Kevin B

16:53

🚽

user58

Oh hey, it looks like they finally made the buses automatically process the card when you swipe it when you've purchased a day pass instead of having the driver punch it in. Finally.

Stevoisiak supports Monica

A streamer forgot to disable edit suggestions before sharing a google doc. It's currently a glorious, chaotic mess

Emanuele-reinsMonica-Ciriachi

17:08

@Hitodama I believe that scene happens in Advent Children, not FF7.

Bryan Krause

17:27

@DeNovosupportsGoFundMonica I didn't say the decision was wrong, I just said what I see as the likely consequences. Even in employee-employer relationships, reinstatement is a very rare remedy

Emanuele-reinsMonica-Ciriachi

@BryanKrause It is also rare to recover one's face after losing it so thoroughly.

Bryan Krause

@Emanuele-reinsMonica-Ciriachi SE's face or Monica's?

Emanuele-reinsMonica-Ciriachi

Is that a rethorical question? :) SE's, of course.

Bryan Krause

@Emanuele-reinsMonica-Ciriachi I guess I don't really see how it's relevant

rockwalrus-stop harming Monica

17:57

@Andy The FTC issued a request for comments about what is currently going well and what needs fixing with COPPA. The scope of questions asked is quite large. The next step is to look at that info, create proposed changes to the regulations, and then ask for comments on the changes. Nobody knows at this point what changes they will decide to make.

But if I remember correctly, the age threshold of 13 is hard-coded into the law, so they can't change it to 18 through a regulation.

@StevoisiaksupportsMonica You can contribute to this encyclopedia article

PM 2Ring