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Journeyman Geek

12:00

@terdon it slowly got better

terdon

No, but it helps.

@JourneymanGeek Is that something you found out from a recent conversation?

Journeyman Geek

@terdon no. It was something I noticed and was working on before this dumpster fire

mag

@terdon I'm pretty sure the people at SE aren't exactly thrilled with that either

there just might not be a clean way out that doesn't cause more harm in another way

terdon

@mag I guess that''s the difference. I don't see how any monetary harm to SE could possibly outweigh the real harm they've caused her.

mag

I'm operating of the most steelmanned version of this whole situation by the way

Tinkeringbell

12:03

→ 8 messages moved to Trashcan

terdon

So, "we can't apologize because we will be sued and have to lose money" isn't a good enough excuse for me. Not for a company that wishes to be held to a higher standard.

4

@Tinkeringbell thanks :)

Tinkeringbell

@terdon You're welcome XD

mag

If we were to cast aspersions you could very easily read that as some of Sr. Management at SE are vindictive about the whole thing and don't care. But I think that's unfair to assume

@terdon I'm sure you can convince a board of directors of that stance

terdon

@mag I am not assuming that. I don't doubt that each individual is decent in their own way. But the collective organism of the company is not, at the moment.

Mark Amery

Is there any actual evidence known to anyone here that fear of lawsuits is a factor influencing the company away from apologising for or retracting things they've said about Monica?

I keep seeing the idea suggested but am yet to see any reason to think it's true

terdon

12:05

@mag I'm sure I can't. But that would mean I'd file SE in the same folder where I keep FaceBook and other companies I don't want to be associated with in any way.

mag

@MarkAmery what's the alternative?

terdon

And that hurts. It's like seeing your dear old friend become a heartles jerk.

Raedwald

@MarkAmery No. Only an SE statement to that effect would be a fact. But (irony) that in itself would be an admission of guilt.

mag

@terdon in a sense, they always were (after taking VC money). It was just in their interest so far to be nice to us

terdon

@mag That they believe they did the right thing, this is just a sign of things to come, we can all expect to be publicly attacked whenever we do something the company doesn't like.

9

Unitato

12:06

Hi

mag

make no mistake the one and only goal of SE is to accrue shareholder value. Everything else is just accessory to that

@terdon that would be even more depressing wouldn't it?

terdon

@mag Not really. You can take VC money and still keep your ethics. if your VC doesn't let you, you need a different VC. Being a VC doesn't make you evil.

mag

I can't read the TL, so I don't know the mood of the mod community right now but if that becomes prevailing sentiment I see a lot more then 10% leaving

terdon

@mag Well, yes. Which is why I am struggling to find a possible explanation for their stance that would be compatible with a company that cares for any moral standards at all.

Mark Amery

@mag Not wanting to break their new policy against public statements about people? Still believing their characterisation was reasonable? Being so pissed at Monica for not rolling over for them that now they won't give her an inch? Fear that Twitter progressives will think less of them if they show weakness when it comes to hurting wrongthinkers? There are plenty of other explanations.

JAD

12:07

@mag VC?

terdon

Venture Capitalist

People who fund startups.

mag

@MarkAmery most of what you said is not in contradiction to what I explained

Raedwald

AKA Vulture Capitalist

mag

it's just the less charitable version of mine

terdon

@Raedwald I used to think so as well, but after spending a few years working in a startup, I've come to see that some are actually perfectly decent people. Not all, not by a long shot, but some actually even insist on being ethical.

mag

12:10

one thing that is blatantly true is that there is significantly less tolerance for not progressive enough tech companies. And that clashes with the fact that the software industry outside of the americas is a rather conservative space

John Dvorak

@terdon Is it a larger percentage than for lawyers?

terdon

@mag Yes. And I am fine with them being progressive. More than fine. But that isn't the (my) problem with them.

mag

so in the sense that the new house rules are those of a progressive sillicon valley or NYC tech company that will probably continue. And with that comes the reality of deplatforming and canceling dissenters. That is not really seperable

terdon

I mean, I've actually sent out a GDPR request to see what data they have on me. Because I am scared of them.

@mag Fine, but none of that implies speaking to the press!

They have my home address because I was naive enough to be willing to wear swag with their logo. Do I need to move?

mag

There is a greater-good type argument for throwing out and shaming people who don't agree with what you see as progress. I personally don't agree but the argument is internally consistent

terdon

12:14

Will they be telling people where I live if I step out of line so I can be doxxed and attacked by extremists?

mag

the thinking is that if not educate people out of their bigotry you can make it so socially devastating and inacceptable that people will stop out of fear, and that the outcome (people stopping) is worth more then the process

Raedwald

@terdon That is way too paranoid.

terdon

@Raedwald Is it?

Based on what?

Honest question, what do I see that would make me feel that they won't do this?

JAD

@mag which for sure doesn't seed resentment in any way, shape or form

terdon

They have a director who apparently likes going on podcasts, talking to the press and tweeting about people.

I trust the CMs, I know them. But I really am uncomfortable with the idea that SE knows where I live and my real name.

Not even where I live, they sent the swag to my parents' house which is even worse.

@mag Yeah, the old "the ends justify the means" argument. Not something that has ever been used by unsavory folks... :)

mag

12:18

I'm not trying to be facetious, it's the same concept as behind why you don't talk or argue with alt-righters and instead just remove them from the public

terdon

@mag Yeah, it is. That's the problem.

mag

because the thinking is that marginalized people deserve a faster solution to the harm they're causing, and the people causing that harm don't deserve your time

terdon

You should talk and argue with them. As long as they (and you) can be civil about it. Otherwise, you are correctly accused of muffling dissenting opinions, they become martyrs and all you achieved is to make them stronger.

mag

@JAD resentment by whom? You're not trying to convince anyone, you're trying to shame people into considering bigotry societally unviable to hold as a belief

@terdon you only make them stronger if you don't win. This tactic has worked remarkably well against a lot of hate groups in america, though

JAD

@mag ok. And they're going to silently roll over and agree with your stances? Or are they going to foster resentment about the shaming? I'd expect sides to become more and more entrenched instead

terdon

12:22

@mag Really? Name one that has actually become weaker because its voice was silenced. All I see is them becoming stronger and stronger, buoyed by their claims that they're the underdogs and the "establishment" is trying to shut them down.

Mgetz

@mag not as well as you'd think, it's just entrenched them deeper in some areas

JAD

Don't get me wrong. I don't think there is a (good) solution here

Mgetz

the problem is that you can't break a whisper circle if you can't join it

terdon

The only way to deal with such people is to laugh them out of the room, not to try and gag them. You need to change society so that their views are met with the ridicule they deserve. Anything else makes them martyrs and stronger.

JAD

You might quench the behaviour. You won't supress the feelings

Cerbrus

12:24

I just submitted a GDPR request out of curiousity... Interestingly, there's a max processing time of a month on it...

Mgetz

Well the best solution is the hardest and most dangerous: engagement

JAD

and while quenching the behaviour might seem like a small victory, the feelings keep festering

Mgetz

but it's the most difficult all around

terdon

@Cerbrus Yeah, I sent mine a week ago.

@Mgetz Exactly.

Cerbrus

Why isn't that automated?

terdon

12:25

@Cerbrus Probably because there's loads of stuff spread out across multiple DBs.

Mgetz

it's very hard to actually create inclusion when exclusion is the order of the day...

Cerbrus

Still, a developer could probably create a dump of a user's information within a day

JAD

So they have time to decide what to show you or not /s

Raedwald

Neo nazis want you to talk with them because that legitimises their statements and gives them additional venues in which to air them. They don't want to engage in any kind of honest debate. Better to talk about them, rather than with them. Better to talk to people moving towards their position. There is an event horizon beyond which people outside can not usefully engage.

terdon

@Raedwald The thing is, you can use that exact same argument with any group. Just replace neo nazis with liberals, dog lovers, cake haters, whatever.

Mgetz

12:26

@Raedwald there are those within that circle but trust me, if you engage and create personal connections it bridges. Trying to argue with them and you've already lost

terdon

If you refuse to engage, you are legitimizing them: you let them say "See? They can't answer our arguments, we're right".

This demonization of the other, whatever the other may be, is precisely the problem of our society today.

JAD

In other words, there is no winning

Raedwald

@terdon No. Because those groups still accept the concept of a civil society and peaceful interaction.

Mgetz

Well if you write them off you're playing into their arguments of being unreasonable

@Raedwald trust me, its universal. It may not seem like it but it is

terdon

@Raedwald Not all. If we're sticking to politics, there are extremists on all sides and I don't see one as particularly better than the other. As soon as you refuse to engage with a group because you disagree with their ideas, you have sunk to their level.

Mgetz

12:29

people are people, and people are tribal. Until you create cross tribe relations they won't even consider alternative viewpoints

terdon

And their ideas tend to be so ludicrous it is trivial to shoot them down. If we don't, it just makes it look like they're right.

JAD

@terdon Well, either everybody is an extremist, or there is some group that isn't extremist. I wonder which

terdon

@JAD what do you mean? Only the fringes of any group are extremists. I'm just saying that there are such fringes on all sides of the political spectrum.

Mgetz

@JAD everybody is an extremist to someone else

The muslim and black worlds see the KKK in the same light as ISIS

Raedwald

@terdon "there are extremists on all sides" is exactly one of their talking points: that they are just like any other political party or movement. They aren't. They do not accept the concept of politics as we usually consider it. In their grimdark present, all there is is war.

JAD

12:31

@terdon Only the fringes of neo nazis are extremists? Only the fringes of ISIS?

I don't agree that all groups are equal in this respect

And while I don't think it's fair to judge groups by its extremists, but for that to be true, the extremists must be outliers, not the norm

terdon

@Raedwald But neither do the extremists on the other side.

JAD

otherwise that comparison breaks down

terdon

@JAD Those are already fringe groups of the larger religious or political trend to which they belong.

Neo-nazis are a fringe group of extreme-right wing political positions.

And extreme-right wing is already a fringe group of right-wing.

Raedwald

@terdon No. Except for some weird Stalinist Communists, all other political parties and movements mostly accept the concept of politics as we usually consider it: debate, persuasion, voting, a degree of tolerance of dissent.

JAD

And a debate with right-winged people would look entirely different than a debate with neo-nazis. Is what I'm trying to point out

terdon

12:35

@Raedwald Why are you excepting them?

They are the other extreme.

JAD

Judging right-wing by neonazis is unfair. Judging neonazis by neonazis is

Mgetz

almost all human political structures are about power, and screwing over groups different than your own for personal or group gain

Raedwald

Yes. right wing is not the same as neo Nazi.

terdon

Of course not.

Cerbrus

@terdon I've asked a question about that GDPR request processing time

terdon

12:37

But, you know, I come from a country where as recently as 3 months ago, we had both an openly neo-nazi and an openly Stalinist party in parliament. So I don't see how I can ignore either fringe.

At least we kicked the neo-Nazis out in the last election.

JAD

You don't have to ignore the fringes, but judging the groups as equally bad just because of their fringes is unfair.

terdon

@JAD I am judging the fringes as equally bad, that's what I'm saying: that there are extremists on either side.

And the worst thing you can do with extremists is try to gag them: that only makes them stronger.

Cerbrus

@terdon Shower them with puppies

That always works

terdon

Yeah, from orbit maybe... :)

JAD

Hmm, so there's two stances here: Debating with extremists is pointless. Gagging/ignoring extremists is pointless. :/

mag

12:42

debating with extremists isn't pointless, it's harmful

it gives them the idea it's okay to talk about the views in public

Cerbrus

@JAD One could argue that calling something pointless is extremist.

JAD

feel free to replace pointless for harmful.

Cerbrus

Hehe

mag

you can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into

JAD

sounds reasonable

Cerbrus

12:44

@mag Every extremist reasoned themselves or has bee reasoned into that point of view

That reason may be false

Or even a blatant lie

terdon

@mag It is absolutely OK to talk about any view in public. That's kind of important. Now, how that view will be received is another matter and we need to make sure we educate our society so that it will know to receive ridiculous views with ridicule.

Cerbrus

But to them, it's reason

terdon

But we should never try and silence a view just because we find it offensive.

mag

@Cerbrus thats not really reason, it's emotion and tribalism, mostly.

terdon

@mag You can dismiss any view with the same argument.

mag

12:46

you got a point

still

Cerbrus

youtube.com/watch?v=ORp3q1Oaezw This is a very interesting watch... About a black guy that befriended a KKK grand wizard, and in the end got that grand wizard to denounce the KKK. Not by arguing, but by listening.

terdon

@mag You're not wrong, but that's kinda of how humans work. And that's exactly why it's important to engage and not muffle.

JAD

@Cerbrus wasn't there a recent movie about that?

terdon

@JAD You're thinking of the cop who infiltrated the KKK.

One of my personal heroes :)

Cerbrus

@JAD BlacKkKlansman ? That's about a black cop

Good movie, different story

mag

12:49

I'm playing partly devils advocate here

I personally have a pretty instinctual abhorrence for silencing, but I can see a rational position why people favor it

terdon

@mag Yes, there are arguments to be made, as you have been doing. I just don't find them convincing, personally.

mag

personally, even if discussing with them actually helps the alt right more then silencing them, I still would take that as a collateral loss because going for silencing tactics means I'd become my own enemy. But I'm also in an overall pretty privileged and unaffected position, so it's easy for me to hold that view and I can see why minoritized people would scoff at that

so I'm careful with swaying too far in either opinion

my own enemy because free exchange of ideas and due process are my fundamental moral basis in anything I try to do

to risk getting off topic, same reason I am against any sort of extrajudicial dealing with terrorists. I don't care if it's bad for us if we give terrorists due process, that's just a loss we have to take. The alternative is that we stop being anything worth defending

Cerbrus

> Status: We are unable to process your request at this time. If you’d like to follow up, please contact [email protected] and reference the ID above.

Wut

mag

:8008127 ??

terdon

@mag we are in violent agreement! :)

Cerbrus

12:55

@mag Copy paste derp

terdon

@Cerbrus Oh wow. So many people have been issuing GDPR requests.

mag

@Cerbrus where on earth did you copy paste that from

concern

terdon

Makes sense. many of us are scared.

Cerbrus

From my earlier message

mag

oh

Cerbrus

12:56

I wasn't sure if they made the movie's title punny by adding that extra k

David A

This "talking with someone is endorsement of his views" thing is kinda dangerous.

4

mag

@DavidA is, isn't it? You can quickly find yourself on the wrong side if you're a little slower in reaching new conclusions

Tinkeringbell

@DavidA It's not necessarily that you are endorsing someone's views... but by talking about it in public spaces, you're giving them a platform. At least, that's how my friendly neighbourhood journalist describes it...

mag

the problem is when the definitions of what is deplatform-worthy shift

terdon

It's also about who gets to decide what deserves a platform and how are you so sure of your moral superiority that you feel you can make that decision.

mag

13:03

@DavidA The issue this sentiment seeks to address is that debates online often don't really consist of an exchange of ideas. Instead, you're talking to the spectators about the other person and their view. If you ever want a perfect example of this, watch any of the US presidential debates. By allowing a debate on such a subject, you're essentially agreeing to have your platform serve as advertising space for these positions

JAD

Additionally, with social media these days, where is the line between public and private platform?

mag

I don't have a solution for this, the downside of silencing is totally abhorrent and I couldn't bring myself to endorse or do it, but it's not completly baseless

JAD

@mag exactly, those debaters have no intention whatsoever of changing their opinions

David A

@JAD I would say that public platforms should be protected from liability from the behavior of their users, while private ones should receive much less protection.

JAD

Ah yes, the publisher/platform distinction

in other words, how responsible is a platform, public or not, for the content on it

terdon

13:08

Yeah, that's a hard one, true.

David A

I don't think there's any website I would "vote off the internet" for being too offensive or dangerous. Except maybe Twitter lol.

enderland

Facebook has a growing ability to manipulate and control narratives around a lot of things....

JAD

I think that removing twitter will just cause another similar format to take its place

similar to the shift from facebook to instagram that a lot of people made

ArtOfCode

@DavidA cough 4chan

@JAD which is ironic, given that it's exactly the same company

mag

@ArtOfCode 8chan cough

JAD

13:10

@enderland I read today that they are starting their own news outlet

mag

the people for whom 4chan was too censorious

JAD

@ArtOfCode I know right

Mgetz

@DavidA oh I can think of a few

Raedwald

Wasn't the shift from Facebook to Instagram a demographic thing too? Millennials not wanting to hang out with their parents?

ArtOfCode

probably

JAD

13:12

@Raedwald maybe. I think the biggest takeaway is that people are looking for the type of platform, so if one disappears, the next will pop up

user58

My day has just been vastly improved by coming across three gazelles.

JAD

@user58 I ride my Gazelle to work each day

each weekday*

user58

Yeah, I don't think the gazelles I saw could support your weight ;)

JAD

are you calling me fat? ;)

user58

Unfortunately, they hopped away before I could dig my phone out of my riding backpack and snap a picture.

JAD

13:16

:(

Rubiksmoose

@user58 :D

Raedwald

Millions of years of evolution ensured you had no chance of snapping them.

JAD

@Raedwald now to evolve to carry go-pros on our heads to get that chance back

user58

I have a GoPro, I just didn't have it on me this time :(

I could always go back and stake out that spot. It's the second time I've seen gazelles in the vicinity.

Raedwald

Picture: long zoom lens heat hazed picture of gazelles. In the foreground @user58 creeps closer. David Attenborough voice over:...

user58

13:24

They're mountain gazelles, so it wouldn't be quite like that...

Huh, apparently they're really endangered.

SPArchaeologist-様

@mag As I said before, it all comes down to one question. Does the company want to make this a better place or all is needed is advertising this is now a better place to the public? And you know, if it is the first one, congrats everyone: we probably just spent months yelling at each other while trying to do the same thing.

David A

13:41

@SPArchaeologist-様 they need not be in conflict. Getting people to spend more time on the site means more ad opportunities, and it's an audience with a lot of money.

SPArchaeologist-様

@DavidA oh, that I do realize. I am just no longer sure the company as a whole does.

While is sure that single employees do indeed want to pursue a "be nice, be kind" objective, some of the corporate level action seem more focused at destroying the bad reputation Stack has gotten oven the years than on achieving actual change. Obviously, IMHO.

djsmiley2k - CoW

> What should we do if we refuse to comply with a request?
You must inform the individual without undue delay and within one month of receipt of the request.

You should inform the individual about:

the reasons you are not taking action;
their right to make a complaint to the ICO or another supervisory authority; and
their ability to seek to enforce this right through a judicial remedy.
You should also provide this information if you request a reasonable fee or need additional information to identify the individual.

They didn't do any of this

SE, do you even law?

SRC: ico.org.uk/for-organisations/guide-to-data-protection/…

user58

@SPArchaeologist-様 Derp.

SPArchaeologist-様

@user58 you forgot an "Y"

Journeyman Geek

Y?

SPArchaeologist-様

13:53

@JourneymanGeek DerpY

Mad Scientist

@Cerbrus It's almost certainly some kind of fraud detection mechanism that filters GDPR requests. Sending the GDPR request data to someone that isn't the real person behind the user would be a huge issue, so I assume there is some verification going on behind the scenes

Stevoisiak

Are US citizens allowed to submit a GDPR request? Or is it EU only?

@Cerbrus On the GDPR question, the error message response might be better suited to a separate question

Cerbrus

@MadScientist Yea, but it's weird if it's outright rejected without any message

user58

@SPArchaeologist-様 no, that was the point of the pun

Stevoisiak

The 1 month part has been answered fairly well I think

rene

13:56

@Stevoisiak You can submit a request to obtain your data. It is not limited to the EU.

Cerbrus

@Stevoisiak Not really. Email follow up is more suitable

Bart

@Stevoisiak I would assume anyone is allowed to make the request. But it's for EU citizens in particular that compliance is needed.

Stevoisiak

@Cerbrus I meant in how the original question was edited. It could transform the answers to address the edit

You'll have a split in answers addressing the original question vs the edit

Cerbrus

Meh

Mad Scientist

@Cerbrus I suspect the developer implementing this went at it from a security point of view where you want to give the least amount of information to invalid requests. But it should really work in a different way here

Bart

13:59

@Stevoisiak I don't think it will attract enough attention to really matter. If an employee comes in and answers, that would be final anyway.

Cerbrus

@MadScientist I had to confirm the request from an e-mail

So in that regard, there shouldn't be any doubt it was me who made that request

Thanks for that edit, @Stevoisiak

Stevoisiak

@Cerbrus No problem

Bart

Btw, you can remove your first comment below your question @Cerbrus. The offending comment has been nuked.

Stevoisiak

I'm still a bit iffy on the question's split topic. The 1 month wait is within guidelines, while the request refusal is not

Cerbrus

Yeap, thanks @Bart

djsmiley2k - CoW

14:08

take it to law.se?

Stevoisiak

Huh. I did a data request, and I already got my data back

I'm on mobile atm though, so I cant actually view it :P

SPArchaeologist-様

@Stevoisiak and then, when finally at home, he discovered that the attached pdf file was just a page with the word [REDACTED] :P

George Stocker

14:28

@MarkAmery This is an unpopular opinion, but based on my understanding of defamation law; there's zero chance of a defamation suit prevailing. From everything I have seen and heard about the situation, it's a "We're right and no, we're not going to change our minds" situation.

Which leads back to part of the reason behind my resignation; if the company culture has changed to the point that people calling the shots can't see how their methods are hurting their community (not just those they're trying to expel), then it doesn't make sense for me to volunteer my time to propagate that.

11

Stevoisiak

I feel like that change has happened with a lot of tech companies.

To compare it to the games industry, I think this is relevant:

twitter.com/LukePlunkett/status/1187480132551725057?s=20

I think one of the few tech companies people have good feelings about now is Discord

Feeds

The puzzle masters behind Facebook’s Hacker Cup explain how they craft questions

Ryan Donovan on October 25, 2019

Can you fight zombies with mathematical precision? Could a hungry fish benefit from dynamic programming? These are the questions that inspire the developers who craft the questions for Facebook’s annual Hacker Cup.

Today is the grand finals for the competition, now in its ninth year. The programming contest is open to the public and attracted over 6,000 participants this year. The final 25 contestants, who passed through four qualifying rounds with the highest scores, will try to solve their way to victory starting at 9:30am PST – 12:30pmEST -5:30pm Dublin time. You can catch the live stream here. …

George Stocker

One reason I am not into discord (I literally downloaded it to follow the murmerings around these events) is that it heavily favored by the alt-right and other hate filled groups, and so like it or not that's tarnished its image for me.

2

Stevoisiak

That's fair

Rubiksmoose

@Stevoisiak Man, F76 is just a mess.

Stevoisiak

14:41

@Rubiksmoose I'm surprised they didn't make it F2P alongside the subscription

canon

If SE had to pay mods, I wonder what that would cost them.

SPArchaeologist-様

@canon hats.

Stevoisiak

@SPArchaeologist-様 Ah yes, the TF2 model

Source: Was TF2 wiki editor. Got rewarded in hat.

canon

Well, if the community collectively decided (in some fantasy universe) that it was not going to accept volunteer moderator jobs (that's what they are) because of the lack of rights/recourse, would SE then have to employ people in those positions? What would such a position be worth to the company, I wonder?

SPArchaeologist-様

@Stevoisiak which is indeed ironic since if my memory serves... Winter Bash did indeed start as a TF2 reference on Arqade.

@canon since that would indeed be a fantasy universe, I will say that they would just switch to animated brooms, Disney's Sorcerer's Apprentice style .

Stevoisiak

14:46

@SPArchaeologist-様 Huh. So it did

canon

@SPArchaeologist-様 I don't know. Those worlds may be converging, given the current shortage of mods. Have we had elections or anything yet? Also, magic brooms cause a mess.

Rubiksmoose

@Stevoisiak Oh, that would have been pretty interesting.

SPArchaeologist-様

@canon You should check if any employee remembers the name "Berenstein"

JAD

@canon question is whether enough would-be mods are in the loop and won't run in elections now

Gwideon

hello

Raedwald

14:59

Hello

Cereal

hellO

Gwideon

how is everyone

Mgetz

@Stevoisiak give it a few weeks

Cereal

Starved for drama

Stevoisiak

@Mgetz They're at the size where I wouldn't be surprised

Gwideon

15:02

really

Stevoisiak

I expect the controversy to be something they weren't prepared for

Mgetz

@Stevoisiak I'm expecting them to pull a tumblr here pretty soon

Stevoisiak

@Mgetz I don't think they'd do a NSFW ban. Requiring channels to label themselves as NSFW seems to have been a good solution

I'd imagine most sites do a NSFW ban because of advertiser fears

Mgetz

@Stevoisiak I think they will

Gwideon

discord doesn't really have to worry about ads

Mgetz

15:04

investor pressure and probably apple

there are groups that put heavy pressure to ban any sort of NSFW

Stevoisiak

My guess is that they'll end up pushing something on Discord Nitro to try and become profitable

From what I've heard, the company doesn't make a profit yet

Mgetz

yep, like most useful tools they don't

and I'm willing to bet that at some point a condition of funding will be 'cleaning up the platform to reduce legal liabilities"

canon

Discord's quietly banking millions of voices to feed some AI behemoth.

Mgetz

well they are counting on being bought by Amazon or MS most likely

but I wouldn't rule out google or facebook

canon

it's a quality product

it smashed so many predecessors it's silly

even their webclient was great

Mgetz

15:08

the startup scene these days doesn't seem to be about sustainable businesses

mag

@Stevoisiak I think discord has a flagging and governance update coming soon

Mgetz

but rather about getting bought

canon

@Mgetz it's been that way for over a decade. Get a big player to take notice and buy you out. That's the dream.

Mgetz

@canon yep I think Joel gave up

Stevoisiak

It's been working out surprisingly well for GitHub.

mag

15:09

there are a lot of companies whose whole business model is "this could be a nice side gig for google to shore up sentiment and collect data"

Mgetz

@Stevoisiak I think they were profitable?

Stevoisiak

@Mgetz They were not bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-12-15/…

divibisan

@Stevoisiak Not to derail, but shashdot still exists?!

Stevoisiak

Apparently

canon

what, you're not drinking from the /. firehose?

Mgetz

15:11

@divibisan barely it's so overrun by russian intelligence it's hilarious. Worse than some hacker news threads

mag

I mean "free no ads" is the expected standard for anything these days

Stevoisiak

Could you imagine if Google had won the bid for GitHub

canon

SO could probably make a killing monetizing winterbash

by enabling it all year long

mag

if you have to acquiesce to that getting bought is your only path to profitability

canon

and letting people buy some hats

Mgetz

15:12

@Stevoisiak ohgodno

canon

unlock some through achievements

Mgetz

They'd kill it within a year

Stevoisiak

@Mgetz Google had wanted to buy GitHub bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-06-28/…

Mgetz

@Stevoisiak and I'm supremely glad they didn't as they would have killed it

google doesn't know how to product

mag

centralization is such a shit trend tbh

nearly everything you use is owned by MS, apple, google or amazon

Stevoisiak

15:14

Or Facebook (Whatsapp, Instagram)

Mgetz

@mag or IBM, or a few others

Kevin B

ohhi

Stevoisiak

@Mgetz What does IBM own?

Mgetz

redhat

which everybody else runs on

mag

my quiet hope is that facebook gets so shafted by regulations they go out of business

canon

15:15

lol

mag

if one good thing comes out of GDPR it will be fining facebook out of business

Mgetz

@mag They'll just buy a country first

and then hopefully norway will buy them

djsmiley2k - CoW

@Stevoisiak o_O

imagine a AI that can crawl all the programming...

How do I do X? -> AI crawls github, AI now can do X....

canon

@mag the GDPR requirement to make the data available to the end-user must be expensive too.

Stevoisiak

I remember being concerned when Microsoft bought GitHub, but honestly, they were probably the least terrifying outcome

canon

15:17

Well, they have an interest in fostering software development. What did they have before... codeplex?

mag

I don't even really care how it is done, I just know that I regard facebook as one of the worst companies to ever exist

Bart

@mag turns out it's actually quite underwhelming when it comes to implementing fines. I think their 50million dollar fine for Google was like 95% of the fines implemented.

mag

and it is ahead of other heavyweights such as nestle on that list

Stevoisiak

Is it weird to say Microsoft is the most trusted tech giant right now?

mag

their cavalier attitude and degenerate experiments with private data and influencing people lead humanity down a dark path that needs to be stopped

Mgetz

15:19

@Stevoisiak yes and no, nobody trusts microsoft so they have nothing to lose

mag

microsoft and apple want my money, fair enough

at least they're not trying to control my life

Mgetz

they would if they could

Stevoisiak

@mag I'd argue Apple is trying

mag

or rather, they're bad at trying to control my life so less of a threat

I also sent a GDPR request just now, I want to know if they still have my name and address on file from the swag they sent me

if they do I'll send a delete request from that

Félix Gagnon-Grenier

mornins'

Bart

15:28

o/

Jason C

sfdglskjdfglksjfskj

Bart

I see your point, but in the current climate I'd advise you to think twice about making such bold statements.

Stevoisiak

I'd leave it alone

rene

→ 3 messages moved to Trashcan

Trasiva

Huh, okay then

Félix Gagnon-Grenier

15:41

While thinking about stuff yesterday, I remembered something a friend told me a few years back at university. I keep forgetting it, but each time I think back of it, it helps.

I don't remember the discussion exactly, there were like, 6 or 7 people talking (probably about politics), but at some point, they told me: "Y'know, no need to say it to other people to disagree. You can just... disagree."

This distinction, while subtle, kinda helped me distance myself from situations where I was fired up.

Trasiva

Problem is the internet has made it easier to scream, shout, and mob people to try and suppress unaligned thoughts.

Also made it easier for those in positions of authority or control to suppress that what they don't like when they want to.

Jason C

THANK YOU FOR YOUR COMPLIANCE.

Trasiva

It's becoming very Orwellian

rene

@Trasiva the opposite is true. It is much easier to organize a mb.

Kevin B

meh

Trasiva

15:49

@rene Sure, but those individuals are being oppressed for whatever infractions they'll have to do it elsewhere. Especially when it's being done from a totalitarian perspective.

rene

sure, whatever.

Félix Gagnon-Grenier

bah, it's ok, like Kevin said, multiple opposite things can all evaluate to true at the same time

Kevin B

whether or not they evaluate to true is irrelevant if they're ignored anyway

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