Tavern on the Meta

12:55 AM

→ 9 messages moved to Chimney

2:08 AM

@VoteDukakis Or... you learn programming and submit fixes yourself.

That's the nice thing about free (as in freedom) software. You don't need to worry about some corporation taking their sweet time fixing a bug in their closed source code. You either give them the patch and they apply it, or you apply it yourself.

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

4:24 AM

Have you guys seen Chiitan?

I just now watched the John Oliver segment

forest

6:39 AM

How do I post formatted text in a chat?

I can't use ` because it doesn't trigger if there's leading whitespace, and because it badly breaks when used on multiple lines, eg:

`foo
bar
baz`

Journeyman Geek

@forest chat uses its own dialect of markdown :/

its a bit... watered down

Pretty sure `should work

Yup

for multiple lines just keep typing
Shift enter
Then pick the fixed font thing that turns up

It has to be "on its own" though if you catch my drift. So unformatted stuff, new chat posty thing, then that

MEE the sneaky user

Yeah, you're right.

I was just wondering why it has to be alone because the "fixed font" button is indenting it (normal code block behavior).

And: Good Morning btw @JourneymanGeek :)

Journeyman Geek

6:55 AM

@MEEthesneakyuser One of the things I've been complaining about a while is how markdown isn't standard within different SE components ;p

Docs used commonmark - but moving everything over to that is apparently likely to be an utter pain

No Distraction Wizard

And the most important crux: markdown formatting doesn't work on multiple lines
like *this*
or **that**

Journeyman Geek

So we have, at least Markdown for main sites (which include some non markdown tags as per spec), a cut down version for comments, a slightly less cut down and maddeningly slightly inconsistant version on chat...

No Distraction Wizard

<s>---strikethrough---</s>

Journeyman Geek

Which is ~~three dashes here~~

but yes, different on the main site.

forest

@JourneymanGeek I don't see how to do that.

`foo
bar`

```foo
bar```

?

Journeyman Geek

7:01 AM

@forest You `stick it between backticks` Like so

No Distraction Wizard

Indent all lines with 4 spaces (just like on main site)

this
works

forest

foo
bar

woah!

Journeyman Geek

.... wait

How did no not get that?

You've been using the site long enough to know that, and that's actually consistent between markdown dialects in use

Oh, or that

forest

#include <stdio.h>
void main(void)
{
    printf("Hello, world!\n");
}

Neat. I actually had no idea that that worked in chat.

Journeyman Geek

ANYWAY. Markdown on SE is.... strange

Blame Jeff?

Blame Jeff.

No Distraction Wizard

7:03 AM

Yeah, markdown formatting only works for code block and quote for multiple lines on chat

forest

blamed

No Distraction Wizard

code
block

> quote
> block

forest

>! do spoilers work?

[spoiler]Guess not.[/spoiler]

:^)

Journeyman Geek

lol

I THINK spoilers are only enabled on specific sites

hm, maybe not

I know pets had them

No Distraction Wizard

spoilers are available on all main/meta sites, but not comment & chat

Journeyman Geek

7:05 AM

anyway, definately not something that works on chat

No Distraction Wizard

but.. who wants to add spoilers on Motor Vehicle Maintenance & Repair?

Journeyman Geek

@NoDistractionWizard to protect those of more delicate dispositions?

forest

People who like race cars.

Journeyman Geek

the one on pets was about helping a pet with pretty serious injuries

forest

My pet egg was sitting on a wall and
>! fell and broke apart
and I couldn't put him back together. I even asked the king's horses! What do?

Journeyman Geek

7:08 AM

Anway, I invoke, just because you could dosen't mean you should

No Distraction Wizard

Hopefully not until Smokey adds a new reason: spam inside spoiler block

forest

That would kind of defeat the purpose of spam.

Easier just to use homoglyphs to avoid detection (messes with SEO though).

Journeyman Geek

Smokey probably looks at raw text

They do stick links in .

forest

@JourneymanGeek Yeah it does. It's not very smart, but it works.

MEE the sneaky user

53

Q: How can I fix my relationship with my 7 month old cat after I've constantly abused her the past month?

My kitten is 7 month old, and I... [Content Warning: Descriptions of animal abuse behind spoiler] Now she won't move around me, being highly cautious to every move and every sound. I feel so bad for what I did to her. Is there any way to fix her and our relationship? Whatever reasons I had,...

@JourneymanGeek @forest This one?

forest

7:13 AM

heh I saw that one

Like wtf, if someone did that they probably shouldn't have a cat. :P

> with almost no apparent reason

I mean I can get overreacting and swiping at a cat if it bites you...

MEE the sneaky user

It was on HNQ IIRC

forest

Yeah it was.

I mean how could it not be?

No Distraction Wizard

Yes, that one. Also the topic of Changes to HNQ -- Meta Pets.SE

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@JourneymanGeek Just a curious unrelated request for comment: have you looked at the debug homepage? What do you think of it? In its current form, is it better than the current "active" homepage?

forest

^ Ah I really want to flag that, but I don't have an account.

Shame the site is built so poorly that that's impossible.

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

7:22 AM

@forest I have a bunch of accounts I've used only for flagging spam, and Charcoal users are by and large OK with it

forest

huh

Yeah well still too lazy to do that. I just like complaining about SE's bad code. :P

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

Heh, I remember the authentication system back in 2014. Occasionally, you'd get logged out of specific sites, and prompted to refresh the page for it to show that you were logged in. Glad they at least implemented universal login and got rid of that

...and it now also detects when you're signed in to SE but don't have an account on a site, whereas it didn't at the time

forest

heh

MEE the sneaky user

@Sonic regarding my "wizard request" for Meta, you said it was a discussion and not a feature-request. Given the time passed, I'd like to turn it into a feature-request. Should I only edit the tags and a bit of the language or write a new post?

forest

I mean I get why it doesn't work on different domains, but when it's only a different subdomain, it should absolutely be able to give you an account automatically.

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

7:29 AM

@MEEthesneakyuser I answered that recently; I'd wait for voting to pan out on it for until it turns one week old (in ~3 days) before filing a new feature request that concretely explains how exactly you want it to be like.

Out of curiosity, what did you think of my answer there? (Also pinging @JourneymanGeek because of this comment of his)

MEE the sneaky user

@Sonic I liked your answer and upvoted it, but refrained from commenting something, because all formulations I could think of sounded silly to me.

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

At this moment if you were to file an FR, would you go with my layout or your original one?

@MEEthesneakyuser Speaking of which, in your new FR, clearly explain that you started a discussion about this before (with a link), and due to the positive community consensus, you're proposing an actual request. Also explain if you liked your suggestion better than mine or vice versa and why.

Journeyman Geek

@MEEthesneakyuser I half suspect considering the sheer volume of off topic questions here...

its something that's in consideration, pretty seriously

@MEEthesneakyuser got a link to the original post?

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@JourneymanGeek tl;dr my answer simply says that the first step should be just two options: "I have a question about SE" and "I have some other (e.g. programming) question".

27

Q: The question wizard might be useful for Meta Stack Exchange too; should we give it a try?

tl;dr Due to the special nature of Meta and the high rate of "lost souls", should we try out the Ask a Question Wizard here on Meta Stack Exchange too? General idea In case anyone doesn't know yet, there is finally an Ask Question Wizard. It guides new users towards writing better questions. ...

discussion meta asking-questions

Journeyman Geek

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog I'll get to that eventually - I'm still in the process of catching up

Was gaming and had this open in my other screen

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

7:38 AM

@JourneymanGeek Which?

Journeyman Geek

Whatever you were asking me about

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@JourneymanGeek There were multiple things

All?

Journeyman Geek

Whatever it was.

I mean seriously man, I only have so much of an attention span

now I've forgotten what I was looking at, so I guess you get no answer at all.

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@JourneymanGeek What you were looking at was mine (just kidding :)

Journeyman Geek

Debug homepage - nope, never use it.

Wizard .... eh, not familiar enough with the SO implimentation...

@forest kinda wierdly ensures no human ever sees it. and using SE for SEO is silly...

forest

7:43 AM

Well humans would see it, but it'd still be deleted quickly.

Journeyman Geek

Most folks wouldn't notice that the link is hidden there

which amusingly is the whole point

forest

And what about all the people who won't be able to join the community because they're terrible at making helpful and constructive co-- ... oh.

MEE the sneaky user

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog I think currently I'd go for a mix: first a list of honeypots (other SE sites, other Meta sites, ...) and then if the "right" choice was made I would propose to show a list of question types (discussion, fr, bug, support, ...?)

This is something I've been thinking about for a few weeks. Note, the honeypot for per-site metas (1) needs to have some sort of check/explanation for what to do if a user is suspended on that account. They can't ask questions if they're suspended, so sending them there will only annoy them. And the honeypot for main sites (6) probably deserves some cool way to help users find the right sites rather than pointing them at a list of nearly 200... a site decision tree or something. It'd be cool but a future goal. — Catija ♦ Apr 24 at 17:44

Maybe I'd build a little prototype if I find the time for it. (in Stack Snippets)

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@MEEthesneakyuser I'll edit my answer; I just thought of something to that effect.

forest

A site honeypot?

ArtOfCode

7:52 AM

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog flag abuse, don't edit it

Journeyman Geek

@MEEthesneakyuser I wouldn't be averse to blocking qbanned users with no other MSE contributions

also your post is a feature request IMO

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@ArtOfCode Any evidence that conclusively says that I did not flag?

Also, I routinely see mods editing abusive content out of posts deleted as abusive (e.g. images) as they don't have a spam mask (and I also happen to be using a user script that disables the mask)

Journeyman Geek

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog I think he means editing was a bad idea

it was a completely useless script

Its not how much you do, its how useful it is, and this wasn't useful

Don't forget, mods do have a certain extra duty of care

forest

stifled laughter

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@JourneymanGeek A CM edited a "blank" post where the original revision was redacted to let others know not to complain of a "blank" post (this recent one also shows up as blank)

Journeyman Geek

7:57 AM

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog you're not a CM

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@JourneymanGeek I often find myself clicking through to actual posts on MSE as part of Charcoal, so I find that the spam mask just gets in my way at times.

Journeyman Geek

I mean "Hey geek! There's this post with a script y'all deleted. Do you think making the script go away would be helpful?"

"Nope! These things get fed into spam prevention measures, so its better to leave it alone!"

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@JourneymanGeek This wasn't spam, it was R/A...and R/A flags don't cause posts to get fed into spam prevention measures. And even if it did, I'd strongly suspect that it would cache the revision at the time of the deletion.

Journeyman Geek

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog there's no difference in the underlying system. Still, its not helpful in any way

No Distraction Wizard

(At a time like this, I should have brought more corn)

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

8:01 AM

@NoDistractionWizard pop!

Journeyman Geek

Once again - its not how much you do

its the impact it has

and this was pretty useless as far as things go

forest

8:13 AM

So what's the drama now?

Something about automatically showing spam or something?

No Distraction Wizard

I don't even know we had a drama... I just wanted to make a corn soup for tonight's breakfast

Journeyman Geek

tonight's breakfast?

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@JourneymanGeek If jetlagged...

forest

Woah this is cool nostalgia.wikipedia.org/wiki/HomePage

No Distraction Wizard

that waterspout...

Optimus Prime

10:05 AM

This issue still exists and I'm going to start a 100 bounty on it

5

Q: Getting mails for non subscribed content and no link to unsubscribe

I got a mail from Stack Overflow regarding a chat event. I joined the chat event few months ago and this is the first time I'm getting a mail for that. I checked my email subscription settings and mails for chat event is turned off. I didn't changed it for last 6+ months.

bug chat spam email

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@OptimusPrime A legal complaint will be less costly to your rep

By U.S. law there has to be an unsubscribe button

Optimus Prime

To the blue people (except geek, chris, cellio, bell), this is not nice to have mails from SE each and every week without an unsubscribe option

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

CAN-SPAM Act of 2003

The Controlling the Assault of Non-Solicited Pornography And Marketing (CAN-SPAM) Act of 2003, signed into law by President George W. Bush on December 16, 2003, established the United States' first national standards for the sending of commercial e-mail and requires the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) to enforce its provisions. == History == The backronym CAN-SPAM derives from the bill's full name: Controlling the Assault of Non-Solicited Pornography And Marketing Act of 2003. It plays on the word "canning" (putting an end to) spam, as in the usual term for unsolicited email of this type. The bill...

Optimus Prime

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog But I'm not us citizen. SO is a us company. But I think only us citizen can file a complain. Also I don't want to make trouble to this company coz they helped me a lot.

Tinkeringbell

@OptimusPrime There is one though... You unfollow the chat event, or use your profile settings to turn off the notifications?

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

10:08 AM

@OptimusPrime Not necessarily...our legal system reviews cases as long as the defendant is subject to U.S. juristiction

Optimus Prime

@Tinkeringbell I can't see any in settings page. Lemme check it again

Tinkeringbell

@OptimusPrime Can't you just follow the link in your e-mail?

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@OptimusPrime Don't you mean, "dog, dog, parrot, and pixel art"?

@Tinkeringbell The point is, there is no link in the email.

Optimus Prime

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog it's dog, dog, pixel art and parrot. Order is different from yours

Tinkeringbell

That's my e-mails..

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

10:10 AM

@OptimusPrime No particular order

No Distraction Wizard

@Tinkeringbell huh, you got an email for Happy Hour?

Tinkeringbell

Same as in the question so the claim of there not being a link is kinda bogus

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@Tinkeringbell U.S. law requires a direct "unsubscribe" link (that doesn't require a login, etc.)

Tinkeringbell

@NoDistractionWizard If you register, you do, IIRC.

Anyhow... click view events, and you get this page:

No Distraction Wizard

I never got that email, only inbox notification

Tinkeringbell

10:11 AM

Optimus Prime

@Tinkeringbell I registered for that event. But that doesn't mean I'm asking SO to send me a mail each and every week

Tinkeringbell

@NoDistractionWizard There's most likely a profile setting involved too.

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@NoDistractionWizard I get them

Tinkeringbell

@OptimusPrime Well, easy way to get rid of the notifications is to mash 'cancel your registration' on that page.

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

Anyway, while possible to unsubscribe, the method is not compliant with CAN-SPAM.

Journeyman Geek

10:12 AM

@OptimusPrime tbh, that's totally a thing to try asking about on meta

its not like SE will tell you to go away, and if there's no way to unsubscribe easily or its an antipattern, it could be worth fixing

Optimus Prime

@JourneymanGeek Agree. I registered for an event and I'm getting a notification on my SE inbox. I don't want to get a mail for the same from SE

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@JourneymanGeek It's definitely worth fixing because it violates the law

Optimus Prime

A notification is enough and I'm getting it already.

Tinkeringbell

@OptimusPrime That's a profile setting.

I only have community milestones turned on though... so perhaps turning that one off will help? :P

Optimus Prime

In profile settings, `Inbox
Answers to your questions, comments, chat notifications, and more` is off. As can be seen in the image in question.

Tinkeringbell

10:16 AM

@OptimusPrime Hmm.

And the one I mentioned? Is that off too?

You didn't change anything since taking that screenshot?

Optimus Prime

@Tinkeringbell which one?

Tinkeringbell

Shouldn't matter. Strange...

Optimus Prime

@Tinkeringbell no

Tinkeringbell

@OptimusPrime Yeah, I only have 'community milestones' turned on, and I get them too...

I don't mind getting them though ;)

Optimus Prime

bounty started

No Distraction Wizard

10:39 AM

bounty claimed

Olivia

bounty stolen by a ninja

Journeyman Geek

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog But its so much more pleasant and constructive when you don't threaten people with the law, least initially

Olivia

10:59 AM

^

Journeyman Geek

11:18 AM

We're talking to devs. That it's a design antipattern is likely to appeal to what matters to them than can spam or gpr or the molasses act of 1912...

rene

1:34 PM

→ 25 messages moved to Chimney

Aibobot

2:37 PM

So win

"BY THE WAY, we're having electricity works in 20 minutes"

.... wait what?

turns out we're probably not affected

Rob

2:56 PM

@Aibobot Pedal Power:

Rob

4:49 PM

@Catija I've offered a puny bounty on one of your questions to draw attention to a great idea.

Aibobot

hm

Its 1am and I'm not entirely awake, so...

as opposed to half the bounty rep?

Rob

Pedal harder.

No Distraction Wizard

@Rob got new answer waiting for your bounty

Rob

5:34 PM

@NoDistractionWizard It doesn't show up on the site, or on your profile. If you read the Bounty Message you wouldn't have offered an answer.

No Distraction Wizard

@Rob I wasn't the one who answered :)

MEE the sneaky user

7:10 PM

Custom question lists are out of alpha?

> Note: This functionality is being released on Stack Overflow, Meta Stack Overflow and Meta Stack Exchange. Once it is out of alpha, it will be available on all network sites.
> https://meta.stackexchange.com/questions/313940/custom-question-lists-is-available-for-testing (original alpha announcement)

It is visible on Stack Apps and Quantum Computing, however.

user302202

11:05 PM