Tavern on the Meta

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

01:31

Can't believe an IE bug report I recently filed would reach 100 score...

user302202

02:38

E918 Stack Overflow Joel Spolsky: 100m+ mo visitors, leadership, pivots, Trello sale, stepping aside

►

user302202

Not very new (April 9) but I didn't see it before.

user302202

03:05

Around 15:30 the conversation turns to SO, "I'm not the right person to be the CEO", IPO plans, etc.

user302202

Jobs brought in $44M last year.

user302202

Ads: $16M in a year.

user302202

About SO Enterprise (27:50): "big corporations are paying 1M plus, and there are 28 of them right now".

user302202

Unclear if recurring or one-time.

user302202

03:21

At 28:20 "we have chatrooms... they're weird, we can't get rid of them"

Journeyman Geek

lol

No Distraction Wizard

lol

Journeyman Geek

heh, and SE is "Bigger" than SO...

that's an interesting thing to hear...

.... heh, the talk about the internal SO instances is hilarious. "Oh, we sent copies out to people and 7 years afters... turns out people use it... a lot."

user302202

More interesting than the podcast about making a podcast, sure.

Journeyman Geek

03:37

The CM one?

Its still early - Its one of those things that, well could work - if they can keep on it, but probably would get better with time

user302202

Yeah, I'm just reflecting on the CM podcast being featured all over, and this interview being pretty obscure, despite being a remarkably frank account of the history and plans for the network.

Journeyman Geek

Well, I suppppossseee

Outreach is one of those things SE has always struggled with. Coulda been something for the marketing blog that's been a bit quiet? ;p

No Distraction Wizard

Interesting... we can suggest a site's content to be featured on SE's Twitter. Perhaps the next move is to suggest SE-related content on non-SE to be featured on SE's Twitter...

user302202

03:52

Does anyone actually suggest content for that? The last tweet of this kind I see is from April 4 about blowing into cartridges.

Catija

What'cha mean?

Journeyman Geek

@VoteDukakis oddly enough, I THINK you just did.... ;p

But stuff like this is probably in the funny place where its more for the broader public or folks who're hardcore users who stalk everything SE does ;p

No Distraction Wizard

... and now I just realized Twitter had a new look on desktop-view

Journeyman Geek

I found out about that... on Twitter

WHO WOULD HAVE THUNK?

Jon Ericson

@VoteDukakis Joel has the advantage that he can speak as freely as he likes. For what it's worth, our pilot episode hit our goal (300+ listeners), so we're recording more to put in the backlog. Probably we'll never have the really good gossip, but hopefully it'll be useful for understanding how we think about community management.

No Distraction Wizard

04:02

it oddly reminded me of... left-nav, with oddly-placed Twitter logo on the bottom :/

Catija

Apparently I don't have it.

@VoteDukakis Well... it's an obscure enough interview that I wasn't aware of it, either. :/

Journeyman Geek

@JonEricson eh, I doubt the bit about never having the really good gossip ;)

Not everyone's concerned with the 20,000 foot view of things.

Catija

I think Abby knows all the good stuff.

No Distraction Wizard

Catija

Oh, an app? I just use the browser.

No Distraction Wizard

04:11

that's on Chrome browser on Windows 10 :/

did I get A/B-tested for rarely accessing Twitter~

Catija

But you have some sort of theming?

Journeyman Geek

looks ok for me on vivaldi

@Catija stock dark theme

Catija

They have that? :P

Who has dark themes? That's just silly.

Journeyman Geek

.... yes

@Catija Nick apparently is a fan

I actually have an extention that dark themes all the things

Catija

Nick uses a dark theme for chat, too... so that doesn't really mean much. :P

Journeyman Geek

04:13

something something holding out on the rest of us something something

@Catija I find it easier to read - something about reversed colours helps dyslexics it seems ;p

Catija

I think he just uses one of the userscripts.

Journeyman Geek

On the other hand, I literally swap around... 4 PCs?

and a phone so... its not something I have on every box I run

No Distraction Wizard

04:34

Hhh... can only help myself ignoring the users who rejoining the chat room repeatedly with annoying entering/leaving animation...

Journeyman Geek

@NoDistractionWizard hands perception filter

Try not to stare directly at any alien lizard overlords. Apparently gives you a headache.

No Distraction Wizard

Yeah, the "ignore" feature works perfectly by removing the animation :D

Tinkeringbell

07:04

@Bart beat me to it. Morning!

MEE the setup wizard

Morning!

@Tinkeringbell can you decline my comment flag on this post please: meta.stackexchange.com/questions/327292/…

The comment has a (not absolutely clear) meaning in the context of the question (what I didn't see at first)

Thanks

rene

decline all comment flags for @MEEthesetupwizard, noted

Journeyman Geek

purges all the comments

MEE the setup wizard

@rene only on that post

Journeyman Geek

Actually...

rene

07:15

drop table comments?

Magisch

//jshint ignore:lime

Tinkeringbell

@JourneymanGeek Ey! I got that ping.

Journeyman Geek

In a manner... of speaking...

Tinkeringbell

He's stealing my flags :(

Magisch

for the lime is unimportant and shall be ignored

MEE the setup wizard

07:16

@rene I think Stack Exchange would prefer (for some reasons, and not much) a TRUNCATE TABLE comments...

rene

but drop table solves the unfriendly comments problem once and for all

much like drop table chat would solve the chatrooms

MEE the setup wizard

DROP TABLE users -- No more unfriendliness!

rene

:D

Margarine

07:46

-9

Q: Feature Request: Require comment for downvotes if user reaches reputation threshold

So the idea behind this is quite simple, and I have also not seen any similar solution suggested in meta(after a quick search). Succinctly, I have seen both on my answers and questions(as has anyone) that even on topics for which I consider myself an expert and follow guidelines in producing an o...

> and I have also not seen any similar solution suggested in meta(after a quick search).

As some people would say, lolwut.

rene

Your results might depend on what you searched for. after a quick search for "monthy python" ...

Margarine

@rene I'm pretty sure even that would bring up require-comment-downvote FRs.

rene

LOL

I think I once experimented a bit with adding keywords in posts on MSO to get them higher up in the search result. I realized I know nothing about SEO ...

Journeyman Geek

08:13

@rene and knowing that means you know more than many SEO experts

MEE the setup wizard

@Margarine true:

No Distraction Wizard

10:19

I guess that's one possible choice for AQW on MSE: Is your question about requiring comments for downvotes?

Mithrandir

11:05

Tinkeringbell

11:15

@Mithrandir Nice!

That flower looks very papery though.

ahorn

11:25

Hello, how do I invite a user to a chat room?

Do I just @ mention their username?

Magisch

No, they need a chat profile. Then you can invite them to a room

No Distraction Wizard

@ahorn find their chat profile, from there you can invite to your chat room

Tinkeringbell

Or create a new room just for the two of you :)

ahorn

@NoDistractionWizard Got it, thanks.

Mithrandir

@Tinkeringbell Odd. It's a real flower...

Tinkeringbell

11:33

@Mithrandir I realized that... it was just that at first I got the impression I was looking at a wad of red paper :P

rene

I have competition ...

Tinkeringbell

What kind of flower is it?

@rene I'm not sure if you even are a flower, or just one of those plastic garden decorations.

rene

:(

No Distraction Wizard

Garden roses, according to Google :/

Tinkeringbell

@rene Actually... that makes a pretty good insult. I won't do it again ;)

@NoDistractionWizard That's... a pretty broad category ;)

Magisch

11:43

@rene is a uncommon blurry dandelion

Mithrandir

@Tinkeringbell I'm actually not entirely sure

Journeyman Geek

→ 23 messages moved to Chimney

No Distraction Wizard

12:53

uh oh, I'm getting old notifications on SE Android app slowly but surely

rene

13:03

Is this erroring out for anyome else?

John Dvorak

I would expect anything on the /error path to display an error message

rene

That is valid link @JohnDvorak ... it errors on GET

John Dvorak

Ah, there's a redirect I'd missed

No Distraction Wizard

Yeah, might be merging issue

hmm... actually many of them... users/10967353, users/10967354, users/10967357

Glorfindel

Meta.SE is down?

Machavity

13:16

All Metas are down

Glorfindel

@Machavity not for me

Meta.SO is, though

Machavity

@Glorfindel Give it a sec. Someone said that about another meta and it went down

No Distraction Wizard

... did I crash SO?

Machavity

@NoDistractionWizard We knew it was you! Shog9 will not go easy on you this time

Amusing downtime banner tho

No Distraction Wizard

let's try one-boxing the errored user while they're at it...

walterderhalter, Heidelberg, Deutschland

1 1

nope, no problemo... that means the problem might be on the Profile page...

Machavity

13:26

So I guess I was wrong. Meta.SE and Meta.SO are down, but nothing else apparently

Catija

Working on it. :/

rene

So it took only one DAG to fail ...

Catija

Hm? Not sure what caused it at this point.

Machavity

The appropriate people are being ~~flogged~~ hounded in their cubicle as we speak

rene

@Catija just check if the SqlServer dashboard is all green?

Catija

13:31

We don't have cubicles.

2

I don't think it's related to that. They were pushing something to production. They always start with SO and MSE as tests and if nothing breaks, it rolls out to the whole network.

And back

rene

(roll)

John Dvorak

@rene you're supposed to stop and drop first

Catija

The people who work in the HQs in NYC actually have hexagons but they're full-height walls. There's a chunk of people... in sales, I think... who are in open plan.

John Dvorak

baby bees in their hexagon homes

Catija

Can someone ping me?

John Dvorak

13:35

@Catija I can try

Magisch

@Catija can do

John Dvorak

@Catija or do you prefer a plain at-mention over a chat reply?

rene

Does pinging a CM breaks all meta sites?

Catija

Meh. Testing chat notifications... they're suuuuuper slow and my inbox number won't clear.

Machavity

@rene It's like that Jimmy Stewart movie. Every time a CM gets a ping, Nick Craver gets a phone call

Catija

13:41

Still never got those notifications, just didn't want to clear them by responding.

I can't imagine getting a phone call every time Shog got pinged. :/

rene

there is a bug from @Glorfindel on MSE for the same issue

Magisch

Shog's pings are measured in per second

Machavity

Yeah, my inbox won't clear now

Catija

@Glorfindel did you get a notification of my comment?

... the futility of pinging ...

Well, the in-chat notification noise etc works, so I guess it's not a total loss.

user302202

@VoteDukakis I take this as an opportunity to do some math: the blog mentioned 70M in revenue, so that breaks down as 44M from Jobs, 16M from ads, and 10M from Enterprise/Teams.

user302202

13:48

Which is also relevant to the discussion we've had with @TravisJ about whether Jobs or ads bring more revenue to SO.

Magisch

is the political messaging in username really necessary?

user302202

Yes. It is critically important that Dukakis wins.

user302202

If he does, Bush Sr does not become president; hence Bush Jr does not even get a chance. And we escape the dark timeline we're currently in.

Catija

Considering he's currently 85 and not running for office...

John Dvorak

Wait, are we not talking about Game of Thrones here?

Catija

13:53

Michael Dukakis

Michael Stanley Dukakis (; born November 3, 1933) is a retired American politician who served as the 65th Governor of Massachusetts, from 1975 to 1979 and again from 1983 to 1991. He is the longest-serving governor in Massachusetts history and only the second Greek-American governor in U.S. history, after Spiro Agnew. He was nominated by the Democratic Party for president in the 1988 election, losing to the Republican candidate, Vice President George H. W. Bush. Born in Brookline, Massachusetts to Greek and Aromanian Greek immigrants, Dukakis attended Swarthmore College before enlisting in the...

John Dvorak

Then please stop your online political activities immediately

user302202

Yes, some time travel is necessary here.

Magisch

Ah so this is a goof and not early start to the 2020 us presidential race

I was preparing the batteries of sigh already

Meta Bug Wizard

Sorry if this sounds stupid. I'm going to refer to the SE network in a formal document. Should the word "network" be capitalized in "the Stack Exchange network"?

user302202

No.

user302202

13:56

legal page does that because they continue referring to it as the Network.

Catija

"The The Network". :/

user302202

Similar how you would see "the Company" in that company's ToS, but not elsewhere.

Catija

I always capitalize it, if that counts for anything.

user302202

Capitalize Network only if you are mad as hell and can't take it anymore.

Magisch

isn't there branding guidance somewhere

Meta Bug Wizard

13:59

feels like some flame that'd rise properly on ELL

Glorfindel

user302202

@MetaBugWizard Trademark guidance does say "The Stack Exchange Network refers to the collection of Stack Exchange sites and services." Oh well.

Meta Bug Wizard

that implies capitalizing "network" is the correct option

user302202

Yeah.

Meta Bug Wizard

good, thanks.

user302202

14:05

Speaking of usernames, for some time I thought @NoDistractionWizard was referring to that catchy tune by Beck.

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

outagesCausedByBindingRedirects++;

Tweeted by Nick_Craver on April 25, 2019 at 2:03 PM

user302202

I know it isn't but it's catchy enough that I'm reminded of it every time I see the username.

user302202

Delayed chat pings: a bug or a feature?

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

5

Q: Top bar notifications (global inbox, +reputation) don't really clear

Normally, when you click the Inbox or the Achievements icon in the top bar, the notification (x new messages, +y reputation) clear. They still do, but upon refreshing the page, they're back to their old values.

bug top-bar global-inbox achievements-dialog

Catija

Both? We technically give you the option to have them come in after 15 minutes or immediately.

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

14:07

Yup. And chat pings are really delayed. I usually get them within a minute and they're taking much longer, if they ever turn up. — Catija ♦ 25 mins ago

Magisch

even if you have fast ping enabled, there's a delay

and when you respond or ack the ping in the delay, there will be no ping

Machavity

@Catija Notices aren't clearing, but only on Meta.SO and Meta.SE. No other SO/SE site does it at present for me

Meta Bug Wizard

what about IRQ-driven hard ping?

Catija

@Machavity Ah, interesting. Yeah, that's what I'm seeing, too.

@Magisch Yeah, but it's usually 15-30 seconds.

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

38 mins ago, by Catija

I don't think it's related to that. They were pushing something to production. They always start with SO and MSE as tests and if nothing breaks, it rolls out to the whole network.

No Distraction Wizard

14:10

@VoteDukakis hey, that's a catchy tune!

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

I like how whenever I tweet Nick Craver, he always makes a new tweet that indirectly refers to mine, rather than pressing "reply"

No Distraction Wizard

How do tweet @replies work?

Meta Bug Wizard

TooManyLevelsOfIndirectionsException

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@NoDistractionWizard click the "speech bubble" (reply) button

user302202

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog Replies are not seen by people who are not following both of you.

Magisch

14:18

@VoteDukakis they can be, but you have to click tweets & replies on the person specifically

user302202

Yeah. The majority of Nick's followers are looking at their timeline, not at his Twitter page directly.

No Distraction Wizard

Yeah, AFAIK, if you're replying in a thread, then it's not shown on the timeline. So the easier way to do it is to post on your timeline and... ninja'd

user302202

I miss Google Buzz.

No Distraction Wizard

I miss Google Wave.

Magisch

I miss welbog at googlewave.com

user302202

14:28

I miss sci.math.research. Well not really. Last post in 2017...

user302202

But that was a moderated group, so as soon as moderators retired, it would have to stop.

user302202

OTOH, unmoderated sci.math is still active, but I'm not sure that is a good thing...

Journeyman Geek

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog Not sure how accurate that can be. Nick hates binding redirects almost as much as I hate jira...

No Distraction Wizard

~~Huh, the userscript to show badge on pinned chatroom tab disappears from my Monkey :/~~ derp, it's a Chrome Extension

user302202

2

A: Top bar notifications (global inbox, +reputation) reset after refreshing or visiting another page

This was an issue with a library update we just pushed out which seemed fine but depending on assembly load order created a race that exposed a binding redirect issue with System.Numerics.Vectors because the .NET assembly loader is just oh so fun. The net result was this library which gets a fir...

user302202

14:41

You can feel Nick's rage through all that italic.

Margarine

@VoteDukakis He doesn't seem all that angry to me.

Journeyman Geek

@Magisch Its a joke, ironically that most americans won't get

I did, though I'm confised over whether its actually funny

user302202

It isn't really.

Journeyman Geek

But you would literally need to have half a clue to who Dukakis was

is?

And I had about that much ;p

user302202

Probably dependent on my browser history, but the movie reference is immediately suggested by Google:

user302202

14:49

Margarine

@Magisch sigh

@JourneymanGeek It takes the one Google, dude

Oh it's that guy from the meta post. Go do something useful with your time, dude.

John Dvorak

for all I know, it might as well be a Dark Souls boss

Margarine

Yep, that's what I originally thought as well

With annoying spawn abilities.

Journeyman Geek

Does sound like a good name for your Nemesis

YOU HAVE CROSSED ME FOR THE LAST TIME. DU-KAAAA-KEEEESSSSSS

Margarine

Bosses with names like that don't really look cool but are extremely egotistical and always go like MORTAL YOU MADE SUCH A BIG MISTAKE

And they won't admit to defeat and smack talk even after we beat them

John Dvorak

14:55

I can imagine that sentence coming from DT's mouth.

No Distraction Wizard

M.A.R.garine

Margarine

Either that, or they look cool and emo and all but are pretty weak because they're only the second boss

@NoDistractionWizard Yeah that's the idea

user302202

I prefer Martingale.

Margarine

Well, remind me 30 days later

29.5

John Dvorak

I prefer just ale

user302202

14:57

So many choices here: thefreedictionary.com/words-that-start-with-mar

John Dvorak

maracas

Margarine

@VoteDukakis But how many make you go "ugh margarine"?

John Dvorak

marzipan

Margarine

Marlon Brando

John Dvorak

M.A.R. Keting

Journeyman Geek

15:00

M.A.R karena

Margarine

Marmalade

John Dvorak

@Margarine Are you a lady?

Margarine

No I'm a laddie

John Dvorak

No images of Missy Elliot pulling off a pair of silk gloves then?

Journeyman Geek

Voulez Vous Mange Fromage....

or something

Tinkeringbell

15:02

@JourneymanGeek pretty good!

Margarine

@JourneymanGeek non, merci

Journeyman Geek

lol

I learnt french for a bit

Margarine

@JohnDvorak No it's a Mr. Elliot pulling off gardening gloves

Gonna restart my Deutsch this summer when I get more time

Darn genders really put me off, and I've got better things to do than find the appropriate article for Ashley.

John Dvorak

Poochy Poochy papa yaya?

Margarine

Who's that?

John Dvorak

15:08

You don't want me to pull out the reference.

No Distraction Wizard

Kuch Kuch Hota Hai?

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

delv-pls 2k+ meta.stackexchange.com/review/low-quality-posts/64421

user302202

Speaking of, Physics still has no mod candidates; 3 are needed for the election. I expected a bunch of crackpots to show up early..

Kevin B

why

Margarine

15:26

@KevinB Because that's what crackpots do best?

Show up early and often

Kevin B

why

Margarine

why why

Catija

15:41

@NoDistractionWizard Good movie!

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

17:52

@NoDistractionWizard By coincidence, yesterday, I happened to be listening to songs from that movie.

MEE the setup wizard

18:52

Hello @balpha!

balpha

19:15

@MEEthesetupwizard 👋

So happy you still remember me 😁

MEE the setup wizard

Who are you?

:P

Magisch

hey @balpha

balpha

Hi!

Margarine

Hello @balpha

MEE the setup wizard

19:46

Something just happened to the Featured on Meta box.

Jon Ericson

@MEEthesetupwizard This is part of a project to slightly reduce the amount of dog-piss yellow on the site. The big win is the help center.

rene

So am I right you didn't like that yellow color? I somehow get that feeling ...

Jon Ericson

It perfectly sums up my feelings about the sidebar: don't drink it.

rene

LOL

Jon Ericson

Credit where credit is due: "dog-piss" was Shog's adjective of choice.

4

Kevin B

19:58

🚽

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

SOCVR room meeting is in progress

user302202

20:36

The Token Economy of Stack Overflow

►

user302202

The Jon himself, circa 2015

user302202

> I worry about activities such as the review queues, which perhaps over-promise the good they do. Is it really helpful to close a question that would only get a handful of organic views and never be answered anyway?

user302202

From the associated blog post

user302202

Is the volume super low or am I growing old and deaf?

Jon Ericson

@VoteDukakis I did a SQL training the other day and one of the exercises I assigned was counting the number of SO users with the first name of each person in the group. I considered asking to calculate average reputation, but realized it wasn't really fair to the non-Jons.

user302202

20:43

Use a robust measure of center: the median.

user302202

Not affected by outliers.

Jon Ericson

And that's why I find myself using R more and SQL less.

user302202

👍

Jon Ericson

123

A: Function to Calculate Median in SQL Server

There are lots of ways to do this, with dramatically varying performance. Here's one particularly well-optimized solution, from Medians, ROW_NUMBERs, and performance. This is a particularly optimal solution when it comes to actual I/Os generated during execution – it looks more costly than other ...

user302202

Was that (Oct '15) the last company-wide meetup? Potentially ever?

Jon Ericson

20:48

@VoteDukakis No. We had another one on Halloween 2016.

user302202

Right, 2015 San Diego and 2016 Philadelphia.

user302202

Forgot the phillycheesestack

user302202

21:02

user302202

I don't know if this yellow-ish on yellow-ish combo is really an improvement.

Kevin B

the red text is what bothers me the most. Maybe it was always red, but it just sticks out like a sore thumb with how it is now

user302202

It's natural to see red when reading Meta.

Catija

21:53

I don't know what red you're talking about...

Kevin B

👍

user302202

I don't know either. Maybe this one.

user302202

Simply Red - If You Don't Know Me By Now

►

user302202

TIL it's a cover version.

Journeyman Geek

22:17

@balpha You are dead to us sir. DEAD

We will remember you with a capital first letter...

JK. How's the new adventure?

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