Tavern on the Meta - 2019-03-07

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user302202

00:16

coldspeed's fans keep exaggerating the 40/40 thing

user302202

This is the 4th attempt for Travis J, 3rd for Baum mit Augen, 2nd for Sterling Archer and Jean-François Fabre, 1st for the others.

user302202

00:33

user image

user302202

Traditional candidate chart with 5 dimensions.

user302202

From the chart looks like: Machavity, Baum, with Zoe distant third.

Journeyman Geek

03:29

→ 20 messages moved to Chimney

3 hours later…

Tinkeringbell

06:02

Morning!

Mithrandir

06:57

→ 34 messages moved to Chimney

ɪBᴜɢ

07:27

MSE got another 10k user!

@MSOGA Traditional candidate: Evan Carroll :)

nope, only traditional nominee, not candidate

Shaymin

08:19

where ist teh delete btn? :p

Magisch

08:35

@ArtOfCode I posted the followup in the SOBotics channel: stackoverflow.com/c/sobotics/questions/344

Sonic the Wizard Werehog

09:28

edit-reject-pls meta.stackexchange.com/review/suggested-edits/63361

Journeyman Geek

10:24

→ 6 messages moved to Chimney

2 hours later…

Bookends

12:35

WhoAaAaAa, drama...

Erik A

Where?!?! Grabs popcorn

Bookends

hmm... apparently quite old already on MSE...

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

13:01

meta.stackexchange.com/questions/324874/… I don't even

Wait, it's fresh

Maybe I shouldn't have linked it

Wasn't the last couple of elections relatively dramaless though?

I should make a post about @Journey's utter disrespect towards apostrophes. In case there will be an election.

Also chatting. What unprofessional behavior.

@Mithrandir Are the demonstrators particularly attractive?

Mithrandir

They're orcs

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

Yep, that's braindead alright

@Mithrandir Have your eyes been used to watching so many . . . attractive people that they look like orcs in comparison?

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Mithrandir

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ no, I mean it's LotR themed :P

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

Yeah yeah

> Keep in mind that the social credit score dystopia in China along with its massive surveillance didn't happen in a day . . .

So, a day and half?

Not everything happens with a gradual democratickish process. I'm not sure they ever had a say or that that statement is historically accurate

BTW, it does seem to me Bhargav's comment was sarcastic but it was only funny, neither snarky nor rude or whatever label someone would want to stick to it

Do Users Need to Be Professional?

Good sequel, probably won't do too bad in the box office

Mithrandir

13:25

I dunno, the original didn't get too much love from critics

Journeyman Geek

13:49

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ no one ever accused me of being professional

Erik A

14:05

Oh, it took a vandalism turn and is locked now. Guess no harm done if it gets permanently removed

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

14:31

@ErikA My pet peeve is particularly the use of pronouns . . . "we have reached a point, where . . . " Like, I'm not trying to be an arsehole or something, but who on Earth are you? You weren't there when said moderator was spending valuable time plunging pipes and shoveling NAA so you could get something out of an SO post

Just suddenly showed up in a heated election discussion and decided you should take offense for a funny statement just because it was from a mod, and the fact that the best you could do with attacking was calling it "unprofessional" is telling

@JourneymanGeek So . . . Hmm, I'll accuse you first then accuse you of not following accusation protocol

UR FACE IS PROFESSIONAL

Journeyman Geek

thank you?

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ the we in this situation is... intentional

I use the plural when talking about the "management" of a site - the mod team in practice, when its a matter of reasonable agreement and weight. I also use the singular when its an opinion of a mod.

Erik A

Imo it's just the usual I don't like downvotes and don't want to be reasonable about it. Those get deleted by the dozen on MSO. The only weird thing here is that mods decided to get involved in the discussion instead of just removing it. I still think the whole mess should be removed from the election page, just not relevant

The more you try to change a core belief held by someone, the nastier the discussion tends to get

fbueckert

@ErikA It's a strange line between trying to educate, and just tossing it all, I think.

Especially when it comes to elections, where some people will vote on that stance.

Journeyman Geek

@ErikA you can't delete election comments

user302202

~~Moderators cannot do that, CMs can~~.

Erik A

14:44

Wut? In the election chat, we've had moderators saying they did delete them

Shog9

Moderators can, they're often just reluctant to do so

The big problem is that there aren't any flags

Journeyman Geek

.... we can?

I plead to being vaguely confused and distracted

Bookends

Great, now that OP deleted all of his comments on that post...

Erik A

:( good meme opportunity lost, just looked up the those bastards lied to me one

fbueckert

@Bookends You can get the gist from the remaining comments.

user302202

14:47

TFW you want to downvote and the post is locked. :(

fbueckert

It's following the hallmarks of a ragequit. Getting more heated, deleted comments, vandalized question, etc., etc.

user302202

I'm considering taking a stand against H1 headings in posts and not voting for the candidates who use them.

Bookends

Looks like activity on /election page is not recorded on user's page

Anne Daunted

15:08

If a moderator is suspended on another stack, does that have any influence on their moderatorship?

Erik A

I sure hope not, being a mod is stressful, venting on a different site shouldn't affect that imo

Journeyman Geek

@ErikA @AnneDaunted no. And erm, can I ask, politely, that we table this discussion for now?

Its not been a good day :/

Erik A

Of course

Journeyman Geek

Thank you

Anne Daunted

@JourneymanGeek I do not want to discuss a specific case. I was just curious (see this discussion).

Journeyman Geek

15:19

@AnneDaunted I'm aware

but maybe later?

Anne Daunted

@JourneymanGeek What later?

Journeyman Geek

Oh, the topic as a whole

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@JourneymanGeek That Its just made the day worse

BTW, people that apply use–mention distinction by using plurals used to annoy me

Erik A

Imo tabling the topic as a whole is not bad either, since we all have a specific case in mind now. Perhaps revisit tomorrow if you're still interested?

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

I'm interested in chatting

Journeyman Geek

15:23

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ too many hats ;p

There's me as the user, me as the individual mod, me as part of the mod team, and the most fun one...

Erik A

And it's not even winter bash yet

Journeyman Geek

"I'm a mod, but what I say here is nowhere near official!"

Bookends

@AnneDaunted You could be suspended to cool down just for 1 week just because you got into a heated meta debate on another site, but I don't think it will affect their existing moderator status

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

If they're already a mod, yeah. But if they're not, it'd hurt their election chances

Journeyman Geek

which happened last week ._.

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

15:25

Billionaires running seems to be trending. If it wasn't for the tax rumor (?) Bezos probably would have run

Bookends

Anyway, My girlfriend's mother called the police to ban me from getting into the country is a more interesting HNQ topic

Journeyman Geek

0_0

user302202

@Bookends It affected Jeremy's status.

Anne Daunted

@Bookends Thx!

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@Bookends There used to be people here calling the police, reporting graveyards as full of dead bodies

Bookends

15:28

@MSOGA let's put that as extraordinary case then.

Journeyman Geek

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ pfft. as long as it wasn't graveyards full of living dead people

user302202

9th candidate: Makyen.

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@JourneymanGeek I think if that is ever the case phone booths would be uncomfortable places to be in

Journeyman Geek

0_0

why?

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

Unless someone wants to sacrifice themselves to make people aware of a zombie apocalypse

But was that not what you were getting at?

Bookends

15:32

but, but... Superman transform inside phone booths!

Journeyman Geek

OHHH

never mind. NOW I get it

also... phone booths are still a thing??

user302202

Phone Booth (film)

Phone Booth is a 2003 American neo-noir thriller film directed by Joel Schumacher, produced by David Zucker and Gil Netter, written by Larry Cohen and starring Colin Farrell, Forest Whitaker, Katie Holmes, Radha Mitchell, and Kiefer Sutherland. In the film, a mysterious, hidden sniper calls a phone booth. When a young publicist in the phone booth answers the phone, he quickly finds his life is at risk. The film received generally positive reviews from film critics and was a box office hit, grossing $97 million worldwide, against a production budget of $13 million. Production of the film began in...

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@Bookends My theory is he's hidden one of those muscle loss weight gain pills we so recklessly delete ads of on SEs.

user302202

That's about the last time I saw one.

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

That's why not everyone can be superman

Journeyman Geek

15:34

"2003"

that's like 15 years ago

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

They're not exactly booths here, and yeah, they kinda deprecated themselves, but we do have public phone thingies

Erik A

In the Netherlands, I know the last phone booth got removed about 5 years ago

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

If you feel like you're walking in a museum, you wouldn't litter the ground

Bookends

Almost everyone has a cell phone now... they don't need phone booth, they need places to topup...

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

Sound city keeping strategy

Erik A

15:35

But I can guess other countries might not have good cell service everywhere and still have them

fbueckert

@Bookends And the NSA has got you covered!

Journeyman Geek

@ErikA actually cell service is easier than laying land lines everywhere

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

Nosy Snooping Agency

Rob

There is such a thing as a solar powered cellular payphone - no need for wires.

Journeyman Geek

@Rob they're still a bit of an anachronism

and I didn't, amusingly enough... make the connection of calling in a zombie uprising from a payphone

Rob

16:19

You can also buy an antique payphone cellphone case:

user image

afk for a few hours

user302202

imo, afk is tmi

Mithrandir

17:18

user image

Tinkeringbell

Should we send your parents that one if you end up reported missing? ;) What's wrong with the bike?

Mithrandir

something with the crank... I sorted it out, though, and got home

still not great though

and the bike guy is incompetent

(I'm pretty sure he caused this issue, since it only developed after he tinkered with that part)

Tinkeringbell

Ugh.. better to do it yourself next time?

Mithrandir

Probably. Problem is, he's the only person with parts around here.

Sonic the Wizard Werehog

@Mithrandir Is portable radio legal there?

Tinkeringbell

17:24

@Mithrandir heh. Parts can be bought and even stolen ;)

Mithrandir

@SonictheWizardWerehog ....dunno, probably, why?

@Tinkeringbell touche

Journeyman Geek

I read that as pants

Sonic the Wizard Werehog

@Mithrandir To send an emergency transmission in case you get lost?

Mithrandir

@SonictheWizardWerehog I... have a cellphone.

And I do know those woods fairly well.

Sonic the Wizard Werehog

@Mithrandir Hmm...you have better infrastructure than here. Over here, it's not likely to have service in a place like the one in the picture

Mithrandir

17:31

it's about 40 seconds out of town, and the whole thing is right next to the industrial section - it's not like a huge forest out in the middle of nowhere

ArtOfCode

18:00

@SonictheWizardWerehog most places are not as big as the US

Magisch

18:18

one thing about germany is that while we have woods, even the woods are littered with small towns

Bookends

19:02

Being a mod... made me forgot that there's a 5-minute limit for editing comment...

Journeyman Geek

snort

@Bookends also you will miss unlimited chat edits here

Tinkeringbell

Miss unlimited chat edits? What's that?

Journeyman Geek

lol

Alex

It's the counterpart of Mister unlimited chat edits.

2

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

19:22

@Glorfindel hmm, interesting. Didn't expect they would have specific handling. — rene 2 hours ago

A more relevant question is is Community a she or a he?

Journeyman Geek

could be they!

Bookends

We are Community. We are one.

or, minus one, actually.

Journeyman Geek

DOCTOR WHO :: A TOWN CALLED MERCY :: SUSAN THE HORSE

Alex

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ How do you pronounce it? I pronounce it as com-mew-nit-he.

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

Communishi

Also it's probably communichi in some British dialects

user302202

19:27

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ My proposal to rename Community to Buffy would have resolved the ambiguity once and for all.

user302202

It was not well received. :(

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

Sometimes there is beauty in ambiguity

30

Q: I can't die. Who am I?

I meet many people. I treat them equal. I can harvest grain the middle age way. I always go on, I never stay. I can't die. Some believe I can fly. Most people don't like me. And thus try to fight me. Most people don't want me to touch them. Some mad people want me to rush them. There is...

riddle rhyme poetry

Bruce Willis.

Kevin B

betty white

Bookends

> Title: overlay a live wife camera image

bad typo is bad

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

Who puts a GIF of their wife on the net to be downvoted?

Sterling Archer

19:35

Queen Elizabeth?

user302202

20:17

> Here at CompanyName.website, our three main strengths are our web-facing chairs, our huge collection of white papers, and the fact that we physically cannot die. xkcd.com/1493

user302202

And of course CompanyName.website redirects

Sterling Archer

20:33

lol

Nick Alexeev

Folks, did the Startups.SE stack perish?

rene

I think so, yes

again, I think

Sonic the Wizard Werehog

@MSOGA @Bookends That said, does being suspended on another site affect one's ability to request back moderator privileges on another site where one was previously elected and resigned under good terms? (It prevents nomination, but does it prevent reinstatement?)

rene

19

A: Can a beta site voluntarily recommend itself for closure?

This process (more or less) is happening right now on Health. This post on their own Meta pretty much sums it up: Should we initiate assisted dying? and the post score indicates it is representative for the community's opinion and not just a single person. The Community Managers are taking this s...

Journeyman Geek

@NickAlexeev yup

quite some time back too

Sonic the Wizard Werehog

20:42

@NickAlexeev Also worth noting that due to the two failed attempts, any new proposal for a site on startups will be closed immediately.

rene

fact or assumption?

Journeyman Geek

@rene I'd say the latter.

SEMI-PROTECT THE CONSTITUTION

Sonic the Wizard Werehog

@rene Not an assumption. There was a Startups proposal put up immediately after the second site closed and it was closed by the de facto Area 51 admin as "due to the failed attempts, we're no longer interested in a startups site".

Journeyman Geek

@SonictheWizardWerehog immediately though

If someone had a plan, and presumably was convincing enough....

Sonic the Wizard Werehog

@JourneymanGeek There was an announcement on the proposal.

Journeyman Geek

20:45

would need to be pretty spectacular of course

Sonic the Wizard Werehog

As you know, proposals get deleted after closure, so no one other than SE staff and the small handful of now-inactive 10k+ users on Area 51 can see them.

rene

@JourneymanGeek first, we need a song ... I'll ask around if Mick is available ....

user302202

20:59

@NickAlexeev There is an archived copy at collapsed-stacks.github.io

user302202

@SonictheWizardWerehog The ability to request can only be taken away by death or something similar. How much the chances of request being granted will be affected ... requires predicting the mental processes of the CMs handling the request.

user302202

Mod reinstatement after resignation is an entirely undocumented process, afaik.

user302202

And in the presence of suspension, a corner case of a corner case.

MEE the setup wizard

21:23

@MSOGA And with Yvette we have two possible cases now. I think I’ll write a question.

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

All things considered, this sounds like a good election though

Pretty strong candidates

The CoC abuse mentality kinda leaked in some places and that's why we got things like the octopi case

Wait, why did I use plural?

Kevin B

?

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

Anyway, reading Bhargav's comment in the context is actually even more revealing and it surprises me that it came off as funny

@KevinB My impression is the new welcoming attempt/bandwagon/whatever people call it made some people think that they were right by thinking downvotes are a crime against humanity

Hence making them more vocal, and with a new shield too

Kevin B

21:39

what looks weird to me is this:

> We need more voting in both directions.

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

So while some new meta posts emerge that call out a normallish comment as A-grade harassment, others come with brilliant ideas on how to change a system that worked for so long. Add election spice, and the first type is the octopus post, while the second is throwing u suk at election candidates with a higher -/+ ratio

Bart

Do I smell drama?

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

Nah more like commentary

Kevin B

i think what we actually need is more voting for the 'correct' reasons. We already have vastly more upvoting than downvoting, what i'd argue is that we need voting to be used correctly. I don't think having more upvotes than downvotes overall network-wide is a bad thing, but routinely seeing crap getting upvoted is getting old

the 4000th answer saying you can't return from an asynchronous callback isn't useful

neither is said question

Bart

I'd say we get rid of upvotes until we're balanced

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

21:43

@KevinB The biggest reason crap is getting upvoted is probably not sympathy but either lack of perspective (Hmm, this question seems about programming, so it's not off-topic, lemme upvote it) or lack of expertise. The first guy needs some exposure to SO questions, the second guy to a textbook

And unfortunately this is where Vote Early/Often fails

Bart

@rene the China thing you mean? Meh. Couldn't be bothered with the inevitable rollback nonsense.

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

When I see something standing at +1/0 that should be standing at 0/-5 it's usually that the upvoter upvoted for the sake of voting

Kevin B

how many more users have access to the upvote button compared to the downvote button?

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@Bart Unless you throw some full wheat drama bread into the toaster you won't smell it

Just sayin

rene

@Bart yeah, that was my point. I already had the popcorn ready for the rollback-war

Kevin B

21:45

eh, users active in teh past month

lots of inactive for years users

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@KevinB Ping @rene Ping @rene

Bart

@rene I added a downvote for the sake of balance and got some sleep :)

rene

:D

Kevin B

lol

i don't have a solution to the problem or even the beginning of a possible solution

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

> Finally a female moderator!

Eh . . .

Kevin B

21:47

me running around and downvoting stuff isn't going to fix it

Bart

Give it a try though?

Kevin B

it does make me feel better

:p

rene

@KevinB SEDE

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

Pebble and the frigging ocean thing

It stopped feeling like a river back at 2014

user302202

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ You did not use plural, at least not correctly... xkcd.com/928

user302202

21:57

> Even if the dictionaries are starting to give in, I refuse to accept 'octopi' as a word mainly because--I'm not making this up--there's a really satisfying climactic scene in the Orson Scott Card horror novel 'Lost Boys' which hinges on it being an incorrect pluralization.

user302202

I did not find that scene particularly satisfying. Parent-teacher confrontations over a grade get old after a while.

Nick Alexeev

22:23

Since Starup.SE had collapsed, is there a stack appropriate for questions about startups?
My actual question:

> There is a notion that only one startup in ten [or some other number, usually in the teens] makes it. What stage did a startup had to be at, in order to “count” for this study? In other words, what stage did the startup had to be at, to be included into this study? Did they include startups with FFF money? Did they include startups with angel funding? Did they include startups only with round A?

Sonic the Wizard Werehog

@NickAlexeev Not anymore, unfortunately.

Alex

If someone posted a question asking why startup.stackexchange.com didn't succeed, would it belong on startups.stackexchange.com or meta.startups.stackexchange.com?

Mithrandir

Meta.SE.

Alex

This question's topic is only applicable to one specific site in the Stack Exchange Network. Questions on Meta Stack Exchange should relate to features or policies that commonly apply to the network or the software that drives it, within the guidelines defined in the help center. You should ask this question on the meta site where your concern originated.

Sonic the Wizard Werehog

@Alex The precise wording of a close reason doesn't necessarily correspond with its actual use.

Mithrandir

22:31

There's precedent - such as Literature.SE ;)

Sonic the Wizard Werehog

Blatant example: English-language questions about a specific localized site are allowed on Meta.SE.

Alex

What's an English-language question about a specific site?

user302202

@Alex chat.meta.stackexchange.com/transcript/89/2019/2/13/20-21

Sonic the Wizard Werehog

@MSOGA Personal Productivity doesn't exist anymore...

user302202

Well. I tried to link Shog's message just below that one. Mobile chat, ugh

user302202

22:37

It kind of answers Nick's question about the reason for collapse.

Alex

I'm beginning to think that no one got my joke.

user302202

@NickAlexeev might work on Skeptics, if you can justify this being a notable claim.

Sonic the Wizard Werehog

Feb 13 at 20:09, by Shog9

The folks who can contribute useful information are mostly out there putting that information to work instead of hanging out on Q&A sites?

@MSOGA Done

That said, it's easy for me to do on mobile.

Journeyman Geek

23:04

@NickAlexeev that's really broad

user302202

23:19

Elections Overflow: Woodworking, Tridion, ConLang, eOS. Community Building, Math Educator, Homebrewing, ...

user302202

... Computational Science, Joomla, Open Data, Augur

user302202

That's 11 elections announced in one day.

user302202

They do not begin at the same day, being spaced one week apart.

user302202

For example, Augur election begins on May 27. That's quite a heads-up.

user302202

Then again, Augur may need 3 months for anyone to notice a meta post at all.

user302202

23:23

@Alex On top of mobile chat being semi-functional, the simultaneous conversation with Alex and Nick Alexeev added to the confusion on my part.

Alex

@MSOGA Well as long as it wasn't my delivery...

user302202

Will this parade of pro tem elections lead to a few sits being shutdown? I nominate ConLang, eOS, Community Building, and Augur.

Nick Alexeev

@JourneymanGeek No, it isn't broad at all (for folks who understands startups' stages). The sought info would come from the methods of the studies that have produced the conventional wisdom that "9 out of 10 fail". An answer to my question could be: either references to methods of those rigorous studies, or an indication that there were no rigorous studies (or they aren't public).

Sonic the Wizard Werehog

@MSOGA Nick is not Alex

ArtOfCode

> the simultaneous conversation with Alex and Nick Alexeev added to the confusion on my part

Alex

23:40

@SonictheWizardWerehog You never know...

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