@SonictheWizardWerehog Then they need to make their appeal to the team, who will give it whatever consideration they think is necessary.

but honestly... if someone is actually capable of being a reformed character... they could just make a new account

which is technically against the rules, but if you're a reformed character then you won't fall afoul of the moderators and give them a reason to try to correlate PII

and if it gets found out later, that'll be enough of a weird situation that it'll get kicked to the CMs anyway, who can make a judgement on whether they can stay or not

@Blue Would such a removal be considered a pardon, or a commutation?

The former a complete removal, the latter "reducing the length to time served".

In technical terms, it's the latter

We can only make a user be no longer suspended; we cannot purge their record of a suspension.

Practically it's not punishment. We're protecting the community from the user's behavior

@ArtOfCode Can the team do that, however?

@SonictheWizardWerehog As a general rule, they won't. In the most exceptional of exceptional circumstances, a dev can probably get a DB console and drop a row.

Semi-related: site suspensions come with one additional penalty: the user is not permitted to nominate themselves as a mod candidate anywhere on the network. Is this sanction usually considered when issuing suspensions, and maybe in some cases it's worth removing the suspension from their record if the user apologizes later for it, so it doesn't affect their ability to nominate?

What, exactly, is the benefit of purging suspension history? It's not like it's public knowledge. And, at least for me, I don't take super old suspensions into account when calculating the next suspension duration

That only applies for suspensions in the last year - and it's not automatic. A CM reviews it and will remove the nomination if needed

@SonictheWizardWerehog (a) no, not considered. Suspensions now are issued for just the same stuff as they were before that rule came in.

@SonictheWizardWerehog nope

@SonictheWizardWerehog (b) No. Even if the user apologizes, the suspension happened because they screwed up. That suspension is a record of that screwup, and of the fact that they may well not be qualified to be a moderator.

@Rob Say that a user (based on an actual public case) decided to unaccept 100 answers in a day, to test if accepting 100+ answers a day bypasses the rep cap. A mod notices and issues a 3-day suspension. The user later publicly clarifies what they intended to do. If, say, nine months later, the user wishes to enter into a mod election, would the CM enforce the rule?

No, that's why it's manual.

That's up to the discretion of the CM looking into it

Suspensions issued for bad behaviour disqualify you. Suspensions issued because something looked like bad behaviour and a mod wanted time to investigate don't.

@ArtOfCode Shog's post on the matter says that the rule was put into place not because said users are necessarily bad candidates, but because people dredge up the old suspension and it distracts. In fact, he said that before the rule was put into place, there were three mods with recent suspensions who later went on to win the elections.

@SonictheWizardWerehog You've skipped over the second bullet point. They leave insufficient opportunity to demonstrate good faith

YouTube's explanation of their community guidelines: Don't try to look for loopholes or try to lawyer your way around the guidelines—just understand them and try to respect the spirit in which they were created.

@ArtOfCode I guess that answers my next question: the prompt shown to such users says that if the user really wants to nominate, they can contact SE and obtain permission. That explains when SE would give permission.

@Rob I don't think he's trying to find loopholes as much as trying to find structure where there is none

Moderation at that level is very much as needed

No one hands you a handbook to being a mod. I mean now there are better resources but it literally comes down to someone on the spot trying to make the right decision based off the information they have.

It sounds like you're readying yourselves for those users whom have been suspended on a few sites to plead their case again. YouTube has far less problems and when they do, and the person has a complaint, they put up a video. One shouldn't have to do a stint on IPS or Parenting, one should simply behave within the norms of society and avoid creating and having problems.

If I suspend someone... For say having one bad day, and they end up being a brilliantly constructive user after that, I'd be happy to advocate for them being a mod.

@Rob well usually... If that happens, it's an easy decision

I've had imperfect days, coming here and bothering someone while hiding behind the keyboard isn't a constructive means to make things better. People have used various excuses to explain poor online behavior, I think the "My WiFi was hacked" excuse tops the list (not here but overall).

@Rob psychic twin ._.

@Rob it isn't. We all have bad days though. Losing your temper is human and you might not have the sense to go take a walk at that time.

The "psychic" part seems original, usually it's the little brother accessed the unlocked laptop.

Personally I prefer things to have an order and a plan, but I get why that's not always feasible.

In supermarkets the store security will shoplift in view of a new employee, when caught they beg and cry that their baby is starving and they'll never do it again. If the employee lets them go they are taken to the manager's office for a written reprimand or to be terminated. --- Everyone can make an excuse, that doesn't qualify it as an explanation.

@Mrs.Robinson or anything

Stock rotation is a pretty reasonable practice. I'd borrow that one first.

@Shog9 ideally you would want something like the theory of constraints....

You want stock moving but not have more inventory than necessary for that...

@Rob if we must have bad analogies... Mods are like old wild west lawmen...

...drunk and moody?

... not inaccurate...

But I meant we do actually make things up as we go along, sometimes have to be fast and loose with the rules and shoot from the hip....

@JourneymanGeek Perfect example, I simply Google for "wild west lawmen..." and see the first result.

Well I've never bit a man.

@Rob actually there's a few former mods who might resemble that remark

@Rob that's kinda insulting

The point being is that when using an example that is intended as someone above reproach you don't pick a category where dishonesty is commonplace, like lawmen, and then paint our Moderators with that brush. I find it difficult to suggest a site where the Moderator is bad, the couple of times I've disagreed I've simply pointed out my concern and received a great response. With lawmen one usually has to wait until it gets to court, though North America has made some small efforts to improve

morning

on the situation.

afk

@Rob and well we have oversight

Comparing mods to priests in that context thought....

Don't do that again please.

The color is getting less annoying for me, though it's still annoying because I can't easily differentiate 3 active users with that avatar easily

1 only uses in MSE, 1 uses globally but only relatively active on Writing, 1 uses globally and active almost anywhere

> While I don't want to go too much into it, folks in the NYC office are dealing with a lot of emotional grief right now, and the weekend passed. -- Tim Post

this is getting more awkward...

probably bad weather...

Morning!

Woof

Tezo or Tezos

maybe plural issue..

hides the giant S

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@BhargavRao well if one is on edit/abuse spree, better handle it quickly, though that wasn't the case here. Thanks! :)

@KevinB to irritate other people? Can't see any other reason, to be honest.

@YvetteColomb yeah, but with mod requests too? Business and pleasure should be separated, you know. :D

@Blue hmm... thanks! But this does qualify as a new answer that is adding to existing answer. Go post it and earn some well deserved MSE rep. ;)

@SonictheWizardWerehog voted to reopen, probably the multiple questions asked caused people to close it as too broad, though they're actually "sub questions" of the same main question so fine, IMO.

/cc @rene ^

@Blue hopefully question will be reopened soon so that you can post the answer, if not I'll edit my own answer.

@g3rv4 Looks like Smokey won, you failed to reply to his challenge. Technical loss, you owe me 100 liters of milk now. 3% fat. Thanks. :P

@YvetteColomb actually none of the bots are mine. ;)

Like any good owner, I let others do the hard work :D

buh

@YvetteColomb define "clean". :D

Other than certain bot fluids, it's clean, yes. ;)

@YvetteColomb of course not! Den is very civilized room.

:P

Reminds me of our ever going fight with the daughter to put the dirty clothes in laundry basket and not leave them on her floor every day. lol

@YvetteColomb lol... well guess that's going to be the least of our worries when she becomes teenager.... o_O :D

@Mrs.Robinson oh hmm, I might enter that

@YvetteColomb there's no formal rules on that. Just that if it's getting in the way or folks have issues folks might go 'hey, stop that'. Big fan of soft touch chat modding, especially if people can sort things out.

@ShadowWizard snort. Then comes the point of who clears said laundry hamper...

@YvetteColomb 8.5

@YvetteColomb I can send you directly, e.g. twitter... :)

@Bookends to me it sounds like someone died or is very sick, either employee or a close relative. :(

@JourneymanGeek easy, wife. She do the laundry, I fold the clean clothes. :D

@ShadowWizard hope I don't conflate with the GDPR-legal-thingy that Tim Post-ed before answering that question

@Bookends no idea... but just oneboxing posts/comments shouldn't conflict with anything.

wait... what you mean by "conflate with the GDPR"?

#isConfusedNow

the timeline: that answer, after this answer

(Human brains really like trying to connect anything, even though how absurds it is...)

Probably unrelated other than possible stress levels I suspect

@Bookends oh. Well, being emotionally tired explains the rather strict first answer and the fact he's more sensitive than usual, probably.

Quite honestly - sometimes folks are super toxic... It's ... Not a good thing

But it's not something that can be fixed overnight.

Yup but we can't ban them all... or can we?

@JourneymanGeek Yup, exactly.

Eh. Banning is a short term solution

Depends.

So... Bit of armchair punditry...

If there is one or two "leaders" of a toxic situation suspending them will send clear message to the others.

But that's not the case, so less relevant.

Not really

Well if it was a pure dictatorship sure

The real secret is disarming folks

Need black belt in [put martial arts name here] for that.

Lol. Or just a high charisma score

My brother got one, sadly enough he's too busy to help SE. ;)

Charisma Score: 38/40

lol

If you decompress it - the original poster was concerned about his privacy. A lot of folks in the comments were not, and basically trying to quote the gdpr.

Of course - nearly all swag and promotional stuff is outsourced

I just hope it won't cause Tim to just abort the swag events. :(

So there's always a certain necessary sharing of information

@ShadowWizard that would be bad, and I think a lot of folks wouldn't care

I don't think it'll happen though

plz-delete end of stream meta.stackexchange.com/questions/324268/… @rene @Bart @Glorfindel

(plz-delete policy for me: only questions asked at least hour ago, and with score of -8 or lower which means they're below the radar)

Trump: To ban, or to be banned...

@ShadowWizard works for me

@JourneymanGeek :)

Yeah, I don't want to be intrusive, and while questions are on homepage, I don't see point linking to them here.

@Bookends Or to hammer the servers with the Mjölnir: that is the question

@Asuna you mean Trump? He can issue an Executive order to close SE down and arrest Joel if he'll get suspended.

I can totally see him do that.

Person who is about to start national emergency process just so that he can do what he want doesn't have any red lines.

kinda sorta... There's a lot of weird shit that can be done xd

yeah

Here in Israel the political parties are merging, we become more and more like USA on that matter, which has only two parties.

morning

Almost afternoon ;)

@Tinkeringbell you're a mod and don't know it's always morning on the internet?!?!

So when everyone are sleeping?! :D

@Asuna I'm introducing a new timezone ;)

@ShadowWizard In the morning obviously!

@Tinkeringbell start replying back when I use the "Okie Dokie Lokie" salute and I will switch to time invariant salutations :P

Okie Dokie Lokie Pokie uwu

uwu uwu uwu OWO uwu

@ShadowWizard found you an alternate avatar...

doesn't look like a pony, so I assume a dragon, the dragon instead

@YvetteColomb It was I who allowed it posted that comment on your meta post ^_^'. Same user, different account, ask Shadow for details. Long story short, this account here was once used by a bot, now just an user I use on chat.

@ShadowWizard They said they won't be posting their answer because they believed that your answer covers most of it; I think you should just edit it.

@YvetteColomb If you see me around and you have time, fell free to ask.

WHY

@YvetteColomb (By which I mean that IF you happen to see me online, fell free to ping me. Unless I have some urgent problem to solve I will gladly spend some time talking)

Posting an answer on meta, especially on questions tagged with discussion is...

@YvetteColomb as I have stated in my comment, I fear that what I would have to say would be very polarizing - and as now that doesn't seem really needed. Furthermore, I don't really have much to add on the topic that hasn't been said before, just a little notice that you may want to take in account. Or may not.

I don't want to convince anyone that I am right or wrong. It's just how I view all this mess right now.

That, and the weird felling I have seen this exact story happen before.

@Derpy not bad, thanks!

@ShadowWizard fair enough, let me know the next time you're in Uruguay. I already have the 100 liters of milk in the fridge

@g3rv4 oWo

wondering what to advise @g3rv4 to do with all the milk until I arrive in 6-8 days

I thought you're going to say "I already have a cow ready", to be honest. :P

I couldn't convince the cow to go in the elevator

@g3rv4 you should bring @Yvette then. Cows are similar enough to horses, I think, so she should be able to convince the cow to follow her anywhere. ;)

As compensation, I'll give her 40 liters of the milk you owe me. :D

that ship (the one with cows) has sailed... I already have the 100 liters in the fridge

I ask for forgiveness in advance...

@g3rv4 well that means you can now make about 5000 cups of coffee with it. Assuming you drink 5 every day.... 1000 days of coffee. :D

@g3rv4 It's time you make some cheese

There was a known glitch with the AutoReviewComments user script for a while. It should work now; if it doesn't work, manually update your script or reinstall it.

@Derpy merge two swag events... brilliant! :D

I have question about what mods would prefer (there are currently no mods in the respective stack's chat room). An OP deleted the body of their question, despite several upvoted answers. I can't directly edit there and so decided to custom flag, describing the situation. In the meantime, a high-rep member rolled back that edit, while my flag hasn't been handled yet. Question: Retract the flag or not? (no action necessary, but maybe to let them know so they can keep an eye on it?)

@AnneDaunted I would be okay with both... No real preference here.

@AnneDaunted I believe moderators aren't really supposed to expect users to retract flags.

@Tinkeringbell Thanks

In other words, handle flags as if the retraction feature didn't exist

I just don't want to cause them unnecessary work. But if the flag still serves a purpose, maybe keep it.

Let me just express my distaste for colleagues that amble into work sick and infect everyone there

gg no re broken immune system

@Magisch That's all but commonplace here in the States, because companies often curtail paid leave

^

@AnneDaunted you could always retract it and then flag again to describe the reason you now wish them to be aware of it...

I've done that several times. I once flagged a per-site meta post once to have an OP edit rolled back, then after it was, recast it to warn of potential rollback-warring, then recast it again of actual rollback-warring after the OP reinstated their edit.

so much effort

doesn't that trigger a flag anyway

3 rollbacks in 60 minutes

Thank you Shog9!

Looks like there were some subtle design changes

I had a hard time with math... never could copy over the problem/variables correctly

I'd end up with the correct result to the wrong problem

@MEEisJohannGambolputty... ping

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@KevinB pong?

wut

About math, someone should calculate the percent of average legit meta.SE questions over a day

define legit

"16 questions with new activity" . . . 11 spam or blatantly OT, 3 dupes, 2 non-dupes. Lovely

@KevinB In case of meta.SE, anything that doesn't make me want to spit at my screen

@KevinB Oh sorry, I mistipped. I meant to respond to the ping of @SupaMegaDuckyMomodaWaffle :)

figured as much

Just waffles.

Wait a minute

Water is wet?

What wetted the water? I'm thinking it should at least be less viscous

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ yeah, I flagged it. Fake news.

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It's so magnificently white . . . I thought that chat bug was gone

Oh, it fixed itself

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ did you actually, really just say that water is wet? Where did you learn such incredible knowledge?

@ShadowWizard it looks like someone just stole your incredibly magical wizard magic.

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I refer you to this by Tim Post, @KevinB and @Mrs.Robinson

and that whole conversation

?

IOW: don't do that

this, in particular, was not appropriate

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