Tavern on the Meta

Fabby

00:17

@JourneymanGeek I was thinking of you when I made my last edit

(upvote-worthy now???)

ɪBᴜɢ

00:48

RTX 2060M/MQ leaked, 2060M perform slightly better than 1070MQ

canon

02:08

twitter.com/haneycodes no longer exists, eh?

Journeyman Geek

0_0

canon

Oh, he's haneytron now... twitter.com/haneytron

Journeyman Geek

was going to say...

(since I figured someone I follow follows him annnd)

and myself

02:25

MorninG?

Alex

No.

Shog9

Maybe.

and myself

:(

Journeyman Geek

Somewhere sometime.

Does seem to be morning though

Alex

Its always morning somewhere.

and myself

02:41

hmm... not only in Iceland...

Journeyman Geek

I thought its always friday in iceland

forest

03:08

@Mithrandir It's empowering victims to protect themselves, not blaming them.

Blame implies fault, and naturally it's not their fault for being bullied.

Journeyman Geek

@forest that assumes everyone can protect themselves.

Or its desirable for people to shoot criminals in the knees.

but maaan

forest

This was in context of cyberbullying.

Journeyman Geek

you do realise that going on about something for more than 8 hours isn't always endearing right?

forest

(Though I think people should learn how to defend themselves from irl bullies too)

@JourneymanGeek I took a very long break here!

I just responded to a ping :p

Journeyman Geek

@forest yup. But you don't always want to go full verbal krav maga on them.

forest

03:15

Nah not on SE at least

Journeyman Geek

SOmetimes you want the big polite scary chap going "excuse me sir, you seem tired and emotional. You you would step to this side before we are forced to be less polite..."

(and for you non anglophones "tired and emotional" has a specific meaning)

and by anglophone I probably should clarify I mean british english.

forest

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ It could make it slower, but at least it wouldn't be blocked.

Journeyman Geek

eh, I use SSH tunnels a lot to get around my local ISP blocks.

its good enough

and my server is in france so there's a little latency for sure

forest

SSH is a good last resort but it has the TCP-over-TCP problem.

Journeyman Geek

its also silly simple and dosen't need very much

forest

03:18

true

And nice and secure.

Journeyman Geek

(I mean I literally use it every couple of months when I need to get around ISP blocks of certain sites that involve vessels with a tape and crossbones...)

forest

Don't copy that floppy! :P

Journeyman Geek

ya ;p

forest

yarr

Journeyman Geek

But I think you'd approve. Its getting around free speech blocks with your own technical ingenuity ;p

forest

03:27

Oh I do approve. Yar har fiddle de dee, being a pirate is alright to be!

Journeyman Geek

actually that's not entirely accurate

I more often than not end up not being able to access...

vexxarr.com/Index.php

(totally SFW)

and I can't for the life of me know why my ISP can mess up routing that bad

forest

Why would that be getting blocked? O_o

Journeyman Geek

its been ok lately

oh not proper blocked

just won't load

a proper blocked site gives you

starhub.com/mda-blocked/04.html

so its mostly incompetance

forest

> pursuant to an Order of the High Court of Singapore.

hah

and myself

06:08

@rene according to the markdown... yes...

rene

lol

and myself

06:46

That said... A51DZ is on new theme O_O

Magisch

07:07

→ 14 messages moved to Chimney

rene

07:19

delv-pls 20K high-score meta.stackexchange.com/q/319774/158100 /cc @Bart @ShadowWizard @TravisJ

@andmyself is it?

and myself

only the DZ, but yes

1

Q: Are there plans to revamp the main site too?

I just saw the Discussion Zone got revamps to use the new standard responsive design. Are there any plans to update the main's site GUI too?

Shadow Wizard

@rene KABOOM (after 8 hours it makes more noise when deleted)

rene

@andmyself I see, I happened to have a discussion going there but the new design didn't got noticed. Maybe I'm already used to it.

@ShadowWizard yeah, we consider this a one time accident. Will call out mods later ...

Shadow Wizard

@rene reminds me of my kids pee accidents. "one timers", where I have to clean the mess. :P

and myself

@rene I believe it's really new, so you might haven't got it at that time ._.

rene

07:26

wifi and trains ....

@andmyself yeah. Sneaky. Moving cheese is never well received

Shadow Wizard

I wonder, with Mr. Friend gone, who is now coordinating those things?

rene

The Team™

Shadow Wizard

?

and myself

!

rene

transfer to meeting

Journeyman Geek

07:42

@ShadowWizard they seem to be looking for another one

Shadow Wizard

@JourneymanGeek I know, but it means there's currently no PM responsible for the responsive design, question wizard, etc. DAG is a team without a head now. :(

(if it's still a team at all?)

Journeyman Geek

stackoverflow.com/company/work-here/1447417/product-manager

@ShadowWizard well, yeah.

Shadow Wizard

@JourneymanGeek yeah, Sonic linked to this before.

Journeyman Geek

and lets be honest here. Its probably been a hell of a time for poor Joe

Shadow Wizard

But he could at least wait until they find a replacement, maybe even guide the new PM, etc.

Journeyman Geek

07:45

and here's the funny part

Shadow Wizard

Well, not my place to judge.

Journeyman Geek

the really really really funny part.

Shadow Wizard

?

The funny part is...

Journeyman Geek

Basically no one at SE can really deal with people being nasty on MSE, cause immediately its all "help help we're being oppressed"

and conflict of interest... and stuff

so one of the things we really are useful for is well "guys, be nice, or else..."

and not have to worry too much about the blowback ;)

Shadow Wizard

@JourneymanGeek think Jaydles can, he's a senior management, I believe people on MSE will still respect what he says. But he keeps silent, so...

Journeyman Geek

07:47

@ShadowWizard not really

Shadow Wizard

I know I will, so hope others too. :)

Journeyman Geek

that's to say, if you see any nastiness towards staff, flag it

and myself

@ShadowWizard Jaydles... is Jay Hanlon...?

Journeyman Geek

@andmyself yes

and myself

(yay! slow internet at office after blackout! :)

Journeyman Geek

07:49

@ShadowWizard I think historically there's very few people with, well a ton of soft power on SE's staff

Even amongst CMs, maybe about 20-30 percent historically?

Shadow Wizard

@JourneymanGeek that goes without saying, also for any kind nastiness, not only toward staff.

Journeyman Geek

@ShadowWizard but of course.

but that's been a thing lately :/

too many angry, bitter people

Shadow Wizard

you mean the snarky comments?

and myself

@ShadowWizard your face is not Jason.

Journeyman Geek

well to an extent

it does kinda pile up

Shadow Wizard

07:53

Well people have the right to be upset/disappointed with SE staff and their actions, finding the line where it becomes nasty is hard.

and myself

(laggy on office PC! laggy on mobile data! \(^o^)/

Shadow Wizard

@andmyself umm.... what? lol

Journeyman Geek

@ShadowWizard not really

you just focus on the problem, and your feelings, and not the people.

I've occationally given SE folks a solid telling off, even caused a few slightly hurt feelings

Shadow Wizard

I mean when I see comment like "I hate this change! It sucks!! -100 to you!!1!!" should I flag as unfriendly or not?

Journeyman Geek

@ShadowWizard yes

that's a thing

Shadow Wizard

07:57

Why? It's just a frustrated person expressing their frustration.

No?

Mithrandir

@ShadowWizard Definitely.

Journeyman Geek

@ShadowWizard imagine a few hundred of those

Shadow Wizard

Of course it's "no longer needed", but... unfriendly/rude?

Journeyman Geek

now imagine "I hate this change because (practical reasons for change sucking)"

or better yet

Mithrandir

@ShadowWizard No, it's a toxic criticism of someone's work. Someone who has a valid complaint should phrase it constructively, not toxically.

Journeyman Geek

07:58

post an answer, not a comment

and myself

ELU meta is quite hot on that change (not yet rude though)

Shadow Wizard

hmm... oh well. :)

Journeyman Geek

and with an answer, its ok to rip apart what you have piece by piece

@andmyself passion is fine

I think I've basically gone 'y'all suck' at least three times so far.

and myself

Well, when basically most of the communities don't understand the need of new theme...

Like, almost all communities...

Shadow Wizard

@JourneymanGeek very fitting for English Learners.... ;)

Best English ever. lol

Journeyman Geek

08:00

@andmyself so, that's a critique I would have of how it was done.

but I've basically been gently lobbying for the community team to get more resources and lose the focus on non core stuff over Q&A a while

and myself

Or... the gap of "developer POV" and "non-dev/technical users"?

Journeyman Geek

So the big issue here is twofold

SE's not communicating stuff that well

apparently cause a lot of staff are scared of meta

or are unable to spend the time to do it (which I guess is fair)

turning that around though

and myself

Like, as a developer, I could imagine the messy customization code/CSS for each site, and support for unification...

Journeyman Geek

How do you teach someone to meta...

and myself

but certainly that idea won't go through to 80% of SE users

Journeyman Geek

08:03

@andmyself which kinda was communicated less well than it should have IMO

and that customisation was coming later

and of course, starting with bigger sites first

(but folks at SE probably know I think that was not a good idea ;p)

Shadow Wizard

@JourneymanGeek of course, that's what CM's are for. Shog is doing excellent job with meta, so they can just ask him to be the "pipeline" and send the messages in his own way.

Journeyman Geek

@ShadowWizard well, honestly, there's not enough of them, and well, there's a bit of indirection

indirection is the wrong word, but I am brainfarting over the correct one

Shadow Wizard

I think that with enough time to formulate it properly, Shog can explain the need for responsive design and why it's so damn hard in a way that most people will understand, even people with zero CSS/programming background.

Journeyman Geek

Ya, but at this point...

Shadow Wizard

And so prevent many of the clashes we see now...

@JourneymanGeek yeah, maybe too late. :/

Journeyman Geek

08:07

@ShadowWizard well not too late but...

just yanno, the car's outta gas, and people are going to be grumping till it reaches the next petrol station

and myself

I believe it's still possible to start over with new customization, with clearer and more restrictive "rules"

Shadow Wizard

This reminds me, I browsed jsfiddle on mobile yesterday and was horrified. Totally unuseable.

Journeyman Geek

@andmyself and that this is a starting point

the useful thing that comes out of this is moving over to stacks

now, with hindsight being 20/20...

and myself

and making Anime.SE get customized design! ran away

Journeyman Geek

@andmyself honestly? great idea.

and myself

08:10

Everybody gets ~~swag~~ customized design!

Journeyman Geek

There's a few things.

With a 'new' design, you don't have the baggage

and well, less need to focus on the annoying squishy details

on the other hand, some of the issues people report now would have been caught later

the kerning issues in titles and some of the font things - both stuff people really want fixed would only be noticed on more specialised sites

Shadow Wizard

And now let's switch subject to.... monkeys causing havoc in India! :D

Well, it's one of those things that sound funny but are not. Think we discussed it long ago, can't recall with who exactly. Maybe @OptimusPrime?

Derpy

08:30

@JourneymanGeek yeah.... "great" idea. Maybe ask to the ones who manage the local chatbots image repositories to do the design, too....

Journeyman Geek

@Derpy more that start with a smaller, designless site

the chatbot thing is a totally different problem, and its one of those things that well...

Derpy

@JourneymanGeek the design never kept me away from that site. The content did.

Journeyman Geek

@Derpy and that's a moderation problem

the redesigns kinda affect a broader scope.

if anime annoys you, then same idea with any other "should be graduated but hasn't yet" site.

Magisch

08:45

the anime site is firmly nsfw

Shadow Wizard

WTH... @gnat is suspended on MSE????

He's one of the more calm people I know.

Derpy

@Magisch not really sure that should be the "it is fine" normal state of the site.

Magisch

I never go there so I can't comment

Derpy

@Magisch just browse the chat room transcript

Magisch

rather not at work

Derpy

08:58

which again kinda confirms my point. There is something weird if you don't want to browse a site in the network because you just assume it will be filled with "uncouth content"

Magisch

why? nsfw sites on the network are unusual, but I don't think they should be shut down

as long as I don't have to interact, I think they also don't show in the HNQ

Derpy

@Magisch don't think that really fits the ToS but their choice. If the staff is fine with it, let's have it that way.

Magisch

nsfw != offensive though

Derpy

Just let me says that the people on RPG are "fighting a war" against the classical "Hollywood style" portrait of the "rpg nerd", trying to create a more inclusive and welcoming tabletop games lovers community. Anime... well, it kinda reinforces any bad stereotype you may have heard about "otaku nerds" and such.

anyway, on a different topic...

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog The preview poster for the Sonic 2019 movie looks horrible.

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@Derpy Heh, the logo reminds me of the old Sears logo

Derpy

09:15

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog the new Sonic design is Uncanny Valley level.

Journeyman Geek

@Derpy once again though

that's something that needs to be handled in that community or through community managers

there's little we can do about it in general

Shadow Wizard

plz-delete Backup meta.stackexchange.com/questions/319787/exchange-backup-problem @rene @Bart

@Derpy this?

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

09:37

@Sha next movie you should watch: American-made

Derpy

@ShadowWizard W H Y you posted that here.

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@Derpy The spaces seem to actually decrease emphasis

Shadow Wizard

@Derpy umm.... why not?

Also wasn't sure that's what you meant.

Derpy

@ShadowWizard spectrum.ieee.org/automaton/robotics/humanoids/…

Shadow Wizard

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ eww Tom Cruise. But.... why?

I like him as actor though.

Derpy

09:44

Also, please, avoid linking/posting here the IHOPEFAKE alternate not dark version of that image.

Shadow Wizard

@Derpy OK, you did it. You lost me. lol

(nothing new, eh? ;))

@Derpy just posted the first Google result :)

Derpy

@ShadowWizard As I said before, that new "art style" just looks wrong. Princess Elise level of wrong.

And before you ask who this princess is, she is a character from a game that should never have been made

a game that is so bad even the game is ashamed of itself

so ashamed that it retcons itself out of the timeline in the ending.

Shadow Wizard

And how about such thing?

Still wrong? :)

@M.A.R. did you lose the 3kg you should lose? Or do you still working on that? ;)

Derpy

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog can you please jump on @Shadow head? Just pretend he is an Eggman's robot

Shadow Wizard

lol

ouch

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

09:51

@ShadowWizard Been a while since I've seen Princess Elise

I doubt she still knows me after that defeating Solaris

Shadow Wizard

You look pretty close, surely she will always know you. :]

Derpy

10:03

@ShadowWizard I could scroll up those images by filling the room with candy colored ponies.

Shadow Wizard

You know I have no problem with that. ;)

Go ahead! :D

and myself

13

Q: The Anime and Manga "Unofficial" Design! [WIP]

In the chat room a while back we discussed possibly of jump starting the whole design thing ourselves by creating a userscript, one which we can then alter to have different themes so that way those of us who wanted a Naruto or Dragoball Z can still get it without people getting upset. well i had...

discussion design

JNat

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog what's spammy here?

Did I misread, or was that just a poor question?

and myself

though I think the header is already copyright infringement...

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@JNat It's a spam seed and was deemed a true positive by Charcoal users

Shadow Wizard

10:08

@JNat can't you see deleted spam question on that account?

I don't think we should call you for single site spammers, but since you're are already here...

JNat

the body of the question reads:

> I want to Know what are the best Peak Climbing Services in Nepal? Can you Help me?

terrible question? for sure

spam? ...not sure

anyway, it was deleted

and myself

(and still yay for laggy internet at the office!)

Shadow Wizard

@JNat spam seed, it's tricky.

Those usually get actual spam answer after 15-30 minutes.

JNat

welp, not the case here, it appears :)

Shadow Wizard

It's a known spammer trick to post "legit" question as a base for spam answers, still making it appear legit in unaware sites. :)

JNat

10:12

I see

well, that ain't gonna fly here for sure, so... :P

and myself

I heard Shadow Wizard is also one of the spam seeders and is deemed a true positive by Charcoal users...

Shadow Wizard

lol

Here is obvious spam seed I posted, obviously getting ready to post spam answer for selling flags! :P

(buh.... what's with this new r=SearchResults?!)

@Derpy here you go, all the horrible things are now safely buried away. :D

and myself

@ShadowWizard LOL. I thought I accidentally wrote that when pasting the previous meta post. Looks like another bug!?

Shadow Wizard

@andmyself not a bug, looks like they started to track traffic coming from internal search.

They did it long ago and stopped at some point.

(it used to put the "relevance score" in the url)

and myself

@ShadowWizard so verbose...

Shadow Wizard

10:21

12

Q: Why relevance points are added to the querystring of search results?

I just noticed that search results now contain a new querystring parameter named "s" with value in the format of s=[a]|[B] where "a" is the search result index and "b" the relevance points, i.e. how relevant is the result to the search term. For example, this search returns this as the first res...

discussion search hyperlinks meta

@andmy ^

and myself

https://meta.stackexchange.com/questions/242925/why-relevance-points-are-added-‌to-the-querystring-of-search-results?r=Tavern

Shadow Wizard

@andmyself hey, you'll cause chaos in their internal data! :D

We'll see blog post with stats, and "Tavern" will appear there....

> Stack Overflow alumnus since February 2017

lol a funny yet good way to phrase it.... ;)

and myself

I hope they're filtering it well, otherwise... seeing viagra spam on the dashboard (aka Referrer spam...

Maveňツ

._.

he is sleepy so skipped that :D

Shadow Wizard

half drinking coffee

Maveňツ

10:28

lol

Shadow Wizard

@andmyself Viagra might boost the traffic actually.... :D

Maveňツ

o__0

and myself

Viagra spam, targeting search result on Drupal.SE... (deja vu)

Shadow Wizard

pushing @Mav back into Den

:P

@andmyself wait, it really happened? lol

Maveňツ

@ShadowWizard created my twins

Shadow Wizard

10:31

oh no...

Maveňツ

:D

Shadow Wizard

growing new pair of hands in order to push both @Maveň's into Den

Maveňツ

@ShadowWizard I am in DEN too :P

Derpy

and the Frodo answer continues to get upvotes.

Can I request a transfer of those upvotes to the swag answer?

Shadow Wizard

lol

Journeyman Geek

10:36

Your request has been considered and rejected.

Maveňツ

:P

@Derpy remember me <3

Mithrandir

"Remember Me" from Disney's COCO - Cover by Caleb Hyles

►

Shadow Wizard

in Shadow's Den, Mar 10 '15 at 10:22, by SPArchaeologist

hi, @maven. So? Have you already decided what your colour will be when you will eventually become a pony, too?

So what color? @Mav ;)

and myself

Dye

Shadow Wizard

@andmyself -1 it's not a color

BTW here is the pony/unicorn version of @M.A.R.

and myself

10:53

HE COMES

Shadow Wizard

WHO

and myself

TONY

Shadow Wizard

BLAIR?

Tinkeringbell

CHOCOLONELY!

and myself

> Have you tried using an XML parser instead?

Shadow Wizard

10:57

> Crazy about chocolate, serious about people

Derpy

ok. Seems I have to use napalm to stop this now.

and myself

concrete donkey sighted

Shadow Wizard

Derpy

@andmyself nahh... just giving @forest a new weapon to annoy you all.

Shadow Wizard

Careful with napalm around a forest!

We like nature.

Which reminds me...

@Mithrandir no daily pic? :(

Maveňツ

11:12

@ShadowWizard don't disclose that here :P

Shadow Wizard

When you start a tradition, it's cruel to stop it without notice. :D

Maveňツ

feeling shy

and myself

feeling bold

Maveňツ

;)

Shadow Wizard

@Maveňツ no worry. Your secret is kept safely.

but... I lost the key to the safe....

Maveňツ

11:13

@ShadowWizard good memory/search

Shadow Wizard

@Maveňツ combo

Maveňツ

appreciated :D

Shadow Wizard

status-feeling-statused

Derpy

11:24

@ShadowWizard try on Dec, 9th.

forest

@Derpy wat

I fail to see anything in the immediate scroll log that could be considered annoying.

Or just weird pony stuff?

Mithrandir

I have to take one first, @Sha :P

Derpy

@forest use this well The anime face images it produces can sometime be worst than Google Deep Dream results.

Shadow Wizard

@Derpy nah, my keys were made of steel, not plastic.

forest

That looks truly horrifying.

I'm a little scared to look at examples.

Shadow Wizard

11:35

@Mithrandir so take one! ;)

Mithrandir

It's cloudy, bad lighting :(

Derpy

@forest @Unihedron once used that service to generate his avatars.

Shadow Wizard

@Mithrandir sky pic is good too. :)

@forest doesn't appear to be horrible ^

(totally random)

How you made yours?

@Derpy is there also a random parrot generator? Might be useful for @Tink. ;)

Derpy

Feb 28 at 16:38, by MetaEd

forest

O_o

Mithrandir

11:41

Oh, actually, I have a picture that I took recently...

forest

So like, since SE allows embedded images from any domain, what's to stop someone from embedding a picture from a domain they control in order to geolocate someone? Is it just against ToS or is there some kind of image host whitelist?

Mithrandir

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@ShadowWizard Only whack jobs who aren't planning to keep the weights away lose 3kg in 20 days

@ShadowWizard Are you kidding me, or you haven't seen any good Tom Cruise films?

What I really liked is it preferred satire to display some gruesome political shit rather than the typical annoying dark "this is politics and no one is a good guy" theme that similar movies adopt.

It's a movie that allows a good actor to act well. Those movies are always enjoyable

And Tom Cruise is at his peak

BTW, Andrew Sullivan's new article on NYMag is thought-provoking

Shadow Wizard

@Mithrandir nice! :D

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ I like him as actor, just not the person he became.

Mithrandir

@ShadowWizard Recognize the location?

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

11:50

@Mithrandir I do

It's the top section of my screen

Shadow Wizard

@Mithrandir nah, it can be any spot in the northern part of the sea... no?

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ hmm... oh well might give it a try in 6-8 weeks. :D

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@ShadowWizard I don't really ever get into that stuff, but what kind of person did he become?

I think at this age people's public image probably differs so much from their real self that it's not worth bothering for. Both negative and positive images

Derpy

@forest as I said, neural networks

Mithrandir

@ShadowWizard I was more asking if you recognized the body of water :P

forest

Yeah that shit is weird.

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

11:52

Gee I've barely sat down for 5 minutes and it's telling me it's been 12 minutes already

Effing time is so hard to manage

Derpy

24

Q: How to handle possible user tracking through images?

I have come across a site-meta question that ended up on the Hot Meta Posts side bar. At the time of writing, that post has about 1000 views. Accidentally I noticed that OP used his own server (his domain name is similar to his name) to store the images on of his post. A user changed those image...

discussion images security privacy tracking

Shadow Wizard

@Mithrandir ים תיכון, no?

oh wait, or is it the kinerret?

Derpy

@ShadowWizard we could rework this one to build pony faces github.com/e1ven/Robohash

forest

@Derpy So tl;dr "nothing"

So like, if I had a specific person and I wanted to know approximate geographical location to tell whether or not a Twitter person is the same person.

Would that be breaking ToS?

Derpy

@forest umatrix

Mithrandir

11:59

@ShadowWizard that's the one

Derpy

@forest probably against "politeness" far before actual tos.

Mithrandir

The Sea of Galilee.

forest

ok

(Assuming no malicious intent obviously)

Transcript for