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8:00 AM
Also, then the account must just be owned by an individual, not necessarily used.
@JourneymanGeek That doesn't mean that you destroy any account that runs afoul of this. I'm not well versed in internal guidance, but I don't really know of any case where someone with over 500 rep got spam destroyed just like that
usually it's a gradual process with suspensions and warnings and stuff
So you can technically own as many accounts as you want, it just happens that some of them may not be used by you.
@user5389107 this happens so rarely that there's no real internal guidence
We literally often end up searching or asking on meta just like everyone else.
This is honestly the only time I have heard of single IP, multi account, accidental deletion, spam fiah incident.
I don't think changing all the rules makes sense just because of one (fixable I would assume) mistake.
Well at this point, we're likely going to have the CMs review what happened, then let us know what not to do
8:03 AM
Their account can be un-nuked, right?
but it'll likely be a bit messy
I built a button like that at work.
balpha once accidentally merged two accounts, and it can't be as bad as that
8:04 AM
Luckily no one has ever misused it...
Don't press this button twice
@rene press press
(I thought I'd get kicked by a flower)
meh, then I need to get my feet out ...
yes! two animated gif, one chat screen
animate all the thingz
I try to edit my animated gifs, leaving them strewn about can have negative consequences
8:09 AM
Like killing everyone?
Hmm, haven't had that side effect before. I guess I should roll the 100-sided die for that.
@ShadowWizard What is this arguing over semantics of deletion in the comment thread?
If one is really disturbed by animation, surely there are bunch of browser plugins to block them.
@kiamlaluno consider redacting this comment, the optics of it are getting really bad for onlookers: meta.stackexchange.com/questions/309272/…
I'm sure that's not what you meant, but looking at it from the outside looks really really bad
@user5389107 no idea... for the sake of the chance I'm mistaken I'm not "rage quitting" from those comments.
(e.g. maybe mods have option to delete account, and set some auto suspension in place)
8:14 AM
instead, the mods will rage quit
and Drupal might be the 3rd site which wants election/reshuffling as of current writing
@JourneymanGeek "No, that's the button that will kill us all!"
@user202729 network latency
But if the question deserves closure anyway, why are answers allowed?
caching is to blame
j/k wow, okay so that post was really dense and hard to read. I should just sleep
thanks for all the links :P
and now I'm off o/
@user202729 historical decision made by Jeff. Most likely it wouldn't pass these days with the current SE staff/dev team. Probably feature request asking to change this and nuke the "grace period" for answers on closed questions will get high score and has real chance to be done.
@ShadowWizard Really think so? I don't think any FR's have potential right now, dev time is too tied up with teams and after that whatever they'll come up with to placate the twitter ranters
Then just try it. It seems like a good thing (for example, prevent some FGITW answers on duplicate questions).
Another question: SE chat, SO chat and Meta.SE chat are separated. Why?
@user5389107 I am sorry, but I am not sure what you mean. I didn't say any secret, since every user who got a private message from moderators know the message doesn't say which moderator sent the message.
8:37 AM
@kiamlaluno No I mean for an outside observer this looks like y'all are a cabal of people who reserve the right to destroy people and won't justify themselves
Consider what a new user walking upon this meta post will think
All of this reeks of "Technically I'm right" but ignoring the optics with the situation which right now looks a lot like unfair moderating and refusal to take any accountability or allow any transparency
@user202729 load and MSE has staff only rooms that shouldn't be visited by anyone except staff. Also having them separated allows for testing new versions on a small group of users before going all-in
@user5389107 Do you take that from We don't say which moderator took action over an account? Strange, I understand something different from that sentence.
@rene hmm. Pre the MSE/MSO split... was it two or three servers?
@kiamlaluno since that is not an information we need to provide to users that aren't moderators on the same server or part of Stack Exchange staff.
@JourneymanGeek I don't recall
8:40 AM
Technically correct, but also reeks of elitism and non-transparency
@user5389107 it used to be visible to the person mod messaged until mods started getting targetted by trolls
@user5389107 Also, I didn't say I am technically right. either.
I find not having the "other rooms" list quite annoying.
Kinda like "I don't need to tell you anything, go away"
@user5389107 more that "we can't have nice things cause bad people like to target volunteer mods cause it make those small people feel big"
8:41 AM
That should be read as "I'm not allowed to tell such information".
@JourneymanGeek Thats why I suggested redacting it (eg changing the tone not content)
tone is important for these things
@user5389107 Uh? We don't say which moderator took action means I don't tell you anything? Since when?
@user5389107 Then? What do you suggest to change it to?
Redacting a comment after 5 minutes it was posted?
Also, I'm confused by userXXXXXXXs again ._.
8:43 AM
@user202729 explaining why you can't tell for instance
@user5389107 That was already said more than once.
@user5389107 Tone is important, but that can be interpreted differently by different people.
@JourneymanGeek userxxx with purple avatar is @Magi
@Mithrandir Tavern ...
8:44 AM
@rene I know
Just ignore me
@user202729 I am not sure which tone you read on my comments, since I even avoid using some words.
@JourneymanGeek you just need to remember the first digit
@kiamlaluno I don't find it problematic anyway. user5389107 may.
@kiamlaluno You sound very standoffish in your comments there. Again I'm sure that's not your intention, but it does sound that way
8:45 AM
@JourneymanGeek Or the number of digits (my username is custom and not auto assigned by Stack Overflow, btw, so it don't have 7 digits)
@user202729 so what 202729 means for you? ;)
Can't really be birthday...
@user5389107 I am not sure what you mean, but I find instead very accusatory saying you deleted the account, you deleted my comments as AltaGrade did.
@rene Then what? SmokeDetector is not allowed to reply here?
Go figure, I am not a moderator on MSE, so I cannot delete comments.
AltaGrade was just very angry, it can make people do things they regret later.
Poor Smokey... R.I.P
8:49 AM
I miss my !!/tea
!!/tea Nog
@Mithrandir brews a cup of earl grey tea for @Nog
There's something wrong with smokey. @sha @nog
It's rebooting more than usual for an instance
pretty sure that was just Supernova, and then me messing up the failover
it's on Lunar now, so should be all ood
8:51 AM
Lunar Watcher?
@ShadowWizard I hope not xD
@Mithrandir teward/Lunar Eclipse
@user202729 I have no idea what you mean
8:53 AM
@rene Oh ok, nevermind.
@user202729 It's a joke
@rene I think he missed the joke... ;)
that is not uncommon for my jokes
@user202729 no worry, takes time to adjust here. :)
Flowers aren't very good at humor, apparently.
8:54 AM
Flowery Humor is too smelly. Sweet smell, that is. :D
quietly sends @rene to the punitentary
9:20 AM
Time flies when writing an SE answer~
9:39 AM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Link at end of answer: How to change Outlook back to Hotmail 2018 by Cesar_Silva on webapps.SE
9:52 AM
@kiamlaluno you really don't have to delete that, duplicates can serve a good purpose. And you have an upvote there. :)
posted the answer... it took more than 1 hour to research and write it? hmm...
@hey -1 too much time spent on it
heh, good answer, even without knowing what it's really about. Hopefully this gets into HNQ, then you get your desired votes. :)
but I'm afraid it's off-topic and more suitable to Movies & TV...
Probably one of those "it can be asked on either site" things.
Happens tons of times with Movies vs. SF&F when there are science fiction movies based on books...
Oh well, I'll leave it. If someone contests that it's off-topic, then I'll ask for migration instead.
Anyway, I didn't expect I'd learn the official term. Long before, I only know it's only for displaying... time... :)
10:05 AM
Good for you, always good to learn new things. :)
oh, forgot to reply to something
Apr 26 at 13:45, by Catija
... Downside of pregnancy... having to wake up in the night to ... do stuff.
Since she's still pregnant, the answer is most likely "yes".
Also, having a wife who was pregnant four times, I can say for sure it's true... technical details can be provided in Den, but long story short, pregnant women have to pee all the time. Day or night, doesn't really matter. :)
@ShadowWizard While I do have an awesome memory with regards to SE, I do tend to lose track of people from time to time
@ShadowWizard I know biology, I just forgot it for a second there
@hey careful, you don't want to make @Catija angry at you!! :P
@SonicWizard all good!
@SonicWizard forgot she was pregnant, you mean?
@ShadowWizard Yup
If you mean the biology, well, it's not basic, not something we learn at school... ;)
10:10 AM
@ShadowWizard I took advanced biology in high school
oh, nice!
As in, college-level (AP Biology for you Americans)
So how come you're not active at all in Biology.SE? @Sonic
It's not something that interests me, unlike programming, computer use, aviation, and the SE network itself
@SonicWizard so you learned about it during high school, just to find out it doesn't interest you?
10:13 AM
Colleges provide credit for high scores on the AP Exams.
...and it's just about time for the high school students to be taking their AP Exams
(I took a total of 12 AP Exams. For most I also took the corresponding AP course in school, but for one I self-studied for the exam myself, without taking the corresponding course)
I read a biology book for adults (some 400 pages book) when I was 10 or so, don't remember why and how I even got the book.... parts of it felt like travelling into the future, as in seeing what is going to happen to my body in the future. Made puberty easier, as I didn't have to ask anyone anything when things... changed. :P
@ShadowWizard To be honest, other than my body obviously growing, I didn't feel a thing when that happened. I just felt like the same person.
@SonicWizard of course... but usually one gets puzzled when their body is changing and they don't know why, and how exactly. Guess most ask their parents, or even friends, I didn't have to, that's my point. :)
10:23 AM
Guess it's because I was told early on what would happen and I just went with it
Or maybe I grilled my dad for the facts at a very young age so I knew in advance, that's a possibility
@SonicWizard told early? By whom? You had classes in school? I had only something really silly in 10th grade or so, nothing really useful.
@SonicWizard no way you could know in young age about puberty, unless you read about it somewhere... no?
@ShadowWizard By my dad, perhaps
@ShadowWizard I definitely didn't read about it
He told you in advance what's going to happen? That's... not a bad idea, thinking about it. :)
My dad passed away when I was 8, so it wasn't relevant. And my mom really isn't the type to make such discussions. lol
It's still better than learning from, uhh.. the internet...
@hey sure thing... searching for anything related to it will bring like 90% NSFW "noise"... lol
10:28 AM
how i maek babby?
@ShadowWizard Sorry for your loss...I imagine it must still be affecting you
@JourneymanGeek i think you're looking for "how is babby formed"
@SonicWizard not at all, he... wasn't really around when it happened. Longer version can be written in Den, some time later, just ask me there if you want. :)
> How to make a baby: The quick + dirty guide to getting pregnant ...
First Google result ^
10:30 AM
Hey. Just a very crucial heads-up: twitter.com/aprilwensel/status/991537736686301184
At least not NSFW....
I was joking about how terrible the internet is
@JourneymanGeek but it is, that's not a joke. ;)
@AndrasDeak Man... do we need to give folks who obviously want more reasons to dislike us more ammo? :(
10:31 AM
@ShadowWizard see above!
I want to ping panta but that won't make things any better
Especially considering how folks have been trying to portray chat as... well toxic
How did she find out? We have a mole!!!!
We can't really deal with this without behaving better
10:32 AM
I've been repeating this for a long time: we have intrusion
Its public chat folks
Anyone can see what we write, and... well.
But I wasn't there when that happened...if I were, I would have put a stop to that, to be honest
Well, she can close the Tavern.... she can close Den... she can close SE. Problem solved. :)
jokes aside, you should really damn care for how you all seem here
10:32 AM
Yeah, you can see what happens when we're faaaar too clever
Charcoal also has its ... fans
Lounge<C++> not yet?
@JohnDvorak That's different, though.
tavern = chat + meta, like a flagship target
@Shog can you easily obtain stats on if more comments have been flagged as rude on SO main since the blog post?
10:34 AM
Fact #1: April Wensel kept saying how Stack Overflow is bad and toxic. Fact #2: after years of ignoring this, SE management all of a sudden woke up and started to reply to this. 1 + 2 = April Wensel affects Stack Exchange. That's a fact. I'm not being rude.
All the jokes about it, well.... heck it's still just chat. :)
Hey, it's already May, forget about April...
Just wondering. On the one hand, it could be less if people have decided to be less snarky, the ones that are. One the other hand, it may have resulted in an oversensitive userbase
How about not talk about April Wensel at all?
If the former, the blog post has some positive effect
you can talk about her points
10:36 AM
I vote not to talk about her.
ad hominem discussions, no matter how civil, are the last thing you need
I now have the thickest skin that I've never had before.
I'm not talking about her
If this is a chance to improve, then let's do it, and set aside the emotional bullshit caused by the blog's miscommunication
If the things weren't posted in the first place, then nobody would have any ammunition against SE chat. I'd not advise blaming April Wensel, but reflecting on what she said. Since, you know, she does have a point.
10:38 AM
Well, guess I can create twitter account and apologize to her in person... wonder how she will react. But yeah, all those rants are just to let the steam go, guess we can totally stop it.
in The Awkward Silence on The Stack Exchange Network Chat, 9 hours ago, by M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ
I hate how a chance to addressing the root problem got lost in debates of finding out who's on which side
@ShadowWizard last time I apologized to a stranger on Facebook (I'm not sure I was wrong in the first place), I got bullied by her friends.
@hey I really don't mind being bullied. I won't quit the internet like Jeff did. :)
@hey I feel like bullying someone with such a lame username :p
So they'll say I'm the scum of the earth... I'll bring counter examples.
10:41 AM
@ShadowWizard who is this Jeff you are talking about?
damn... someone put that "e" in other place!
@TelKitty he's away now, at wood.
hey I successfully quit internet 267 times too!
@ShadowWizard It was a blatantly obvious duplicate, if you found it so quickly. It doesn't serve any purpose. (Whoops, I forgot what I said.)
I might do it again in the near future!
@ShadowWizard shadows can be qualified as scum, but they're pretty cool when turn them into birds with your hand
10:42 AM
@kiamlaluno umm.... well, ask others for what I'm famous around here. :)
This was not obvious duplicate, surely not one justifying deletion.
@TelKitty I think Jeff Bridges. No other Jeff can it possibly mean
@ShadowWizard dirty jokes?
@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ Bezos. It's always Bezos.
@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ here, not in Den! ;)
Did you just post a dirty joke under @Kiam's question?
10:45 AM
@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ Part of the problem is nobody agrees on what is a problem
@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ It's your screen
@user5389107 I don't agree that this is a problem
I am trying to image what Joel would look like as a female CEO, at least dressed up as a female CEO. I am intrigued ...
If only Jason's here... cue ur face
@TelKitty too much details about your fantasies! :D
10:46 AM
@user5389107 no, there are parts we all agree on, but sadly, they're not being discussed
@ShadowWizard haha nice try
@hey yeah, wonder what happened to him.... :(
@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ Like?
@ShadowWizard serious medical condition called real life
@user5389107 then you're grossly misguided :P It should not be a question that various minorities do face problems here. What the question should be is what we do and how we talk about it. I more often than not disagree with her approach but the things she talks about are very real
10:48 AM
@user5389107 like we really suck at teaching new users how SE is different and how you should behave, i.e. ask, answer and comment
in The Awkward Silence on The Stack Exchange Network Chat, 9 hours ago, by M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ
SO is not sexist or racist. Okay, that's controversial. But what we all agree on is learning the ropes of how to ask is a very tough curve and people usually just don't bother climbing.
in Lounge<C++> on Stack Overflow Chat, Apr 20 at 20:35, by Puppy
in fact, it's really pretty fuckin' hard to tell if you're a woman or a person of colour when all I can see is your username
@TelKitty yeah, I've heard that a lot, and I've responded enough, so I'll just ignore it here
how do you figure out who is a female or person of colour if they don't disclose it themsevles?
There are about infinity amounts of people who are more worth listening to for this topic
@user5389107 that's real constructive
10:50 AM
@TelKitty The answer is, you don't, and you don't judge them for it.
Q: Does Stack Overflow reputation have any value?

Venki WARI have a doubt about Stack Overflow reputation. Why do we need this reputation? Is it worth investing my time as a programmer improving my Stack Overflow reputation?

@AndrasDeak I assume you have read what she wrote. I'm not sure where you're arriving at the conclusion she's anything but
13 mins ago, by Andras Deak
ad hominem discussions, no matter how civil, are the last thing you need
Wait, they don't know about SO rep/Bitcoin exchanges?
I mean the only person who should be able to judge is women and people of colour and we don't think there is a problem?
10:51 AM
But then, good luck educating 100000+ users to behave really niiiiiiiiice and not do something that might be perceived as the slightest rude...
I don't disagree there's a problem here, but I disagree about who we're talking to about it
@user5389107 indeed. So ignore her!
In the same way I wouldn't talk to rush limbaugh about free speech
I only came here to tell y'all to stop talking about her. Either talk about her points or not talk about her at all.
stop being superfluous
10:51 AM
trying to fix a problem when there isn't one
quite dumb
now that's a troll ^
I didn't link anything
@TelKitty if I got you right, I am a POC and I'd rather address other issues than the one comment in 10000 being specially mean to me
@AndrasDeak because I disagree with you?
10:52 AM
Unless there's something constructive on twitter (would be the first time) there's no value in linking any of the twitter snide and snarkfests in a discussion about serious policy
Of course, isn't that how internet discussions work? :D
The only way to know whether or not something is a problem is with data.
Q: Stack Overflow is not a welcoming site! When will the community accept that and can we fast track some changes?

Yvette ColombWhat's happening? There's a plethora of posts on Stack Overflow Meta as a result of the latest blog. They're not hard to find, have a look. Is Stack Overflow really racist/sexist? By saying Stack Overflow is racist/sexist he’s saying that I am racist/sexist, which offends me deeply. And he’...

no comment on that tbh
I like how we still talk about the emotional part instead of something workable like I said we should
10:54 AM
I know it is minefield moderating around the blog posts but where is this going?
1 min ago, by Andras Deak
Of course, isn't that how internet discussions work? :D
@rene OK, they're overdoing the rapist argument
Well, we can change for better, I'm not sure the rest on SE can. If all of us can, then why the whole world can't?
stop fighting imaginary enemies
@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ is that worth flagging?
10:57 AM
For every "perfect" community, a single disruptive user will taint that community for the worst
there isn't any perfect community
There are quite a few things I'd like to say about all the things that are going on, but would rather speak in front of a mixed crowd
@SonicWizard start a panel
What is mixed crowd? (serious question)
Goddamnit. What's wrong with SO is NOT being racist or sexist, or making minorities feel worse than normal people, or whatever pedantic semantics we try to extract from the words of the blog post. It's that the comment culture resonates too close to rude to not cause trouble, and that's from people who're usually most civil.

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