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00:00 - 19:0019:00 - 00:00

7:07 PM
... many hands... Shog's filling the front page of the site with edits :P
God I love this feature @balpha
It's probably one of the best times to do it, considering.
7:27 PM
@SterlingArcher @Haney's invention IIRC
10/10 either way, very clever @Haney ;D
7:38 PM
thanks ;)
yeah it's a small easter egg in the chat app, for fun
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Phone number detected in answer: Pixel dispersion (dissolving) algorithms by Daisy Kerr on computergraphics.SE
@Haney any more of them? Like maybe an undiscovered one :O
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Offensive answer detected: Calculating the tipping point of a lamp post by user191590 on physics.SE
@SterlingArcher I can neither confirm nor deny, happy hunting ;)
(but no, not really)
This is why you need me @Haney
I'm also sub-par at fetching coffee but that's just a bonus tbh
Speaking of coffee brb, it's alamost 4
7:40 PM
yeah that one is internal only
(we have a few "emojis" of sorts)
What's the point of Easter eggs if someone tells you what they are?
Buddy you need some dark theme chat in your life
:strong: becomes ᕦ(ò_ó*)ᕤ
@Catija I'm jewish why would I care about easter
(nailed it)
There's always SFF.
@SterlingArcher Dude... you don't even know when Passover is...
(sick burn)
7:42 PM
@Haney github.com/rlemon/se-chat-dark-theme comes with some neat stuff you may enjoy
one of my favs is the hex code render. #f00
> IE is smelly and will not get support.
it's right up my alley
thanks Duchess
Sure thing Snowball
oh hell naw, i'm not Pam
especially not coke-binge Pam
I'm more like Other Barry, or Krieger
7:44 PM
What about outlaw country cheryl
that was a good story arc
Maybe one of the vampire kriegers
sigh, now i have to go and rewatch all of Archer
7:44 PM
Don't bother with the last season, though...
@Haney it's a good time to do it. Danger Island April 25th
i liked it!
last season was cool imo
really neat spin
my fave episode is s4e4
It was like a daytime drama.
Midnight Ron
I love that one
7:45 PM
so insane
> Butterfly effect, ya know, a butterfly in Africa lands on a giraffe's nose, the giraffe sneezes, that spooks a gazelle, the gazelle bonks into a rhinoceros, and the rhinoceros blindly stampedes into a phone booth, calls New York somehow and says "Hey go kill this idiot Ron for a suitcase!" Because the rhinoceros speaks English!
@Haney did we just become best friends?
Wanna go do karate in somebody else's garage? (I don't have a garage)
7:47 PM
... I'll give you two some alone time...
my garage is 120 F right now
we could do it at the park
meet ya there
but in all seriousness, i must depart for now, i need to go to meetings. peace! ;)
That's cool with me. I did hot yoga with my sister in law and almost literally died. I spent 28 minutes in childs pose trying not to pass out
Yah I need to end the day productive. Laters tater
"hot yoga" makes zero sense to me
In Texas, all yoga is hot yoga.
7:49 PM
"Hey, here's a way to exercise without being drenched in sweat... Guess how we're gonna improve on it!"
If you're not sweating in a yoga class, you're not doing it right.
If I'm sweating doing anything, I'm not doing it right.
I didn't move up a mountain so that I could expend moisture staying cool
@Shog9 I think that statement applies even in cases of non-literal sweating...
non-literal sweating...
like, sweating bullets?
> 3 : to undergo anxiety or mental or emotional distress sweat through final exams
7:52 PM
@Shog9 it's freaking terrible don't ever do it
ah. Well...
Unless you wanna meet women
I guess if you're sweating pipes, you're probably doing it right
But you gotta be real smooth cause you ain't gonna be looking cute
@SterlingArcher ohh god, he's going to see my terrible code :(
7:54 PM
you also linked the wrong repo :P
I don't git gud, so I made a second repo
git is overrated for versioning. Just periodically zip up all your files, convert to base64, print, photograph, and upload to imgur.
google said D:
google was wrong. github.com/rlemon/se-chat-dark-theme-plus new repo
-1 no IE hatred
8:02 PM
well, it's a chrome extension. so by default it hates on everything that isn't chrome
8:14 PM
@Haney and so is the wheel of blame :(
What :strong: is doing?
oh. ":strong: becomes ᕦ(ò_ó*)ᕤ"
8:42 PM
@rene 100. X.x
And like 500 skips
@SterlingArcher yeah, I've done 20 and I close voted a few instead ....
It's just such a terrible queue
There needs to be an option that says "Whoever Said This Could Be Improved Is Now Banned"
Phyllis Badman
@SterlingArcher Post on meta? Your turn, I had my -11 for today ...
Nah I had a negative meta yesterday I'm good :P
8:52 PM
Just maintain a good balance
I have a +150 question so I'm balanced out for a while lol
9:58 PM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Blacklisted website in answer: Error code 12 when saving after moving sim to University by Amy Payne on gaming.SE
Hi! Good evening everyone.
Does anyone have some opinion about @YCS recent failure?
@TimPost's answer for them didn't seem to be at a much higher leve than what they've been banned for :-P ...
I've upvoted your answer here @Tim, because I've seen @YCS failing that many times at MSO with publishing their opinions at MSO. But TBH, leaving them with the statement LEAVE., isn't very much better than what you're claiming now is annoying about them. I'm well aware, that there might have been a number of discussions between (SO) site moderators, before taking the decision to ban YCS for a year (not to mention that the user name is a provocation at all). Hypocrisy in terms of just serving "Joel Spolsky" 's business needs, might be a serious point, which needs discussion. — πάντα ῥεῖ 11 mins ago
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Potentially bad keyword in username, blacklisted user: How can I make nutritional yeast? by NANDI EVENTS STAGE SHOWS on cooking.SE
Meanwhile I see, what the appropriate actions should be (even for high-rep members), but I also understand somehow that point of them, accusing for hypocrisy.
@SmokeDetector Get outta the way, please!
10:14 PM
@πάνταῥεῖ I really don't understand your comment at all.
Whatever, xkcd.com/1357
It's one thing to tell someone to leave your house.
It's another to tell someone to leave someone else's house, where you are also a guest.
Meanwhile an experiment on Parenting:
Q: Announcing a Pro Tempore election

Jon EricsonSummary: Parenting will begin the nomination stage for a special election on April 30, 2018 to bring in one more moderator. Last year (has it really been a year?) I broached the idea of beta elections. As a pilot project, we're going to attempt running an election here on Parenting. This commun...

10:16 PM
@Catija @Tim tells @YCS to LEAVE, is that much better (sensible) than telling users to delete their content substantially?
@πάνταῥεῖ Telling a user who has posted a single bad question or answer to delete it is absolutely different than telling a user who has been a long-time annoyance and who doesn't understand the concept of "Be Nice" and will not accept that they are wrong to leave if they will not comply... yes. that's very different.
He doesn't tell them absolutely to leave... read the sentence immediately before it.
> If you think the site is so riddled with problems, or so irredeemable, or so annoying or offensive to the general sensibilities that shape your daily experience ...
@Catija I agree to some extend (as mentioned), but if I'm going to extrapolate :-P ...
I agree with what @Catija said, but I also think YCS is a symptom (as well as a problem). There are hundreds of users who feel/act the same way... while their actions are unreasonable, at the same time, they have legitimate grievances, so banning them all will just grow a new crop of YCSs.
@Catija TBH, I felt being a victim of "hypocrisy" myself, times ago. I've been adopting just to "behave" right now (I at least believe so).
10:22 PM
Anyone is allowed to feel the way they wish. The problem is when they act on it. It's not difficult to just shut up and move on... he's got plenty of rep to downvote and delete vote any negatively-scoring post he wishes... so if they're really that bad, telling the user to delete themselves is a waste of his time. Let the system take care of it and you don't end up shitting on someone... win win.
@Catija "It's not difficult to just shut up and move on..." Let's agree to disagree, it's a hard job, if you're about site quality moderation. Keeping to "be nice" along certainly is a though job sometimes.
... :sigh:
@Catija Yes, sure ... Sigh!
@Catija See that kinda shit please:
Q: Just to confirm what aggregation is in software process

Mikeez I know that aggregations are types of associations that represent ‘part-whole’ relationships. The ‘whole’ side is often called the assembly or the aggregate This symbol is a shorthand notation association named isPartOf This question is just to confirm, VehiclePart isPartOf Vehicle? Or th...

What do you think about my comments? Is that actually rude?
They seem a bit unnecessary. If you know the answer to the question and it's on topic and clear, just answer the question clearly.
10:40 PM
@Catija That was far from being on-topic, or even researched well.
... How the heck would I know? Do I look like a programmer to you?
@πάνταῥεῖ I think the best option might be to not comment at all. Nothing constructive can come of commenting, you're either going to give them the answer they could've found easily or make them think you're rude.
@Catija I'm a programmer, and software architect. And we have to deal with such shit all day long. Students don't care about reading the policies, and demand their homework being done all day long by us, and don't give a blink of their own efforts. I can understand @YCS' actions to a degree.
@πάνταῥεῖ So stop? If you're not having fun any more... SE is supposed to be fun. If bad content is annoying you so much you're making the site look hostile by posting comments that tell someone to delete their own post... you're beyond needing to take a break and spend time doing something else.
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Pattern-matching website in answer: HOW TO: Resolve HP Printer Driver Installation Issues on Windows 10 by John Parker on serverfault.com
10:59 PM
@Catija " If you're not having fun any more" That's not my point of using SE. I'm using the SE sites as a professional resource, and being crucial for my "real" daily work (feeds a family!!). That's what my concerns about quality are, not just fun!
Bad questions and answers don't prevent you from doing that.
@πάνταῥεῖ telling someone to delete their post because it's wrong (be it question or answer) is not helping site quality. Even with the small change the person will actually delete their answer, they likely won't ever come back, even if they have positive contributions to give. All in all, that only hurts the overall site quality. As @Catija said, we can moderate by downvote/close/delete - sometimes with constructive comments, by "you suck" comments are far from that.
@ShadowWizard I agreed that already.
wait.. where?
@ShadowWizard Upvoting @Tim's answer ...
11:02 PM
@πάνταῥεῖ not looking that way from your discussion with Catija here though..
@ShadowWizard I have to agree my point isn't that clear probably.
@πάνταῥεῖ you support YCS point of view, but not his outright rude comments?
And for the record, I do believe neither you nor YCS have any fun from that.
@πάνταῥεῖ here's my take on that: if I'm getting paid to hand-hold folks through their research and problem solving, it doesn't have to be fun. If I'm going to do it on my own time, it should be... If not "fun and games" fun, then at least rewarding fun.
Banging your head against a wall all day sucks bad enough when there's a paycheck at the end of it.
@ShadowWizard I support that someone could get into that trouble, being eager to enhance the site's quality. I don't support any rudeness (and at least I don't support @Tim's kinda rude statement LEAVE). That was all of my point.
^ @Shog9 We, just should be fair.
Fair here is... Stay & play or leave and don't.
11:13 PM
@Shog9 The site's importance is going beyond just "playing"!
@πάνταῥεῖ so what's better? Keep the game going, trying to persuade YCS his actions are wrong? That can last for eternity. Tim gave the only advice that will cause the problem to go away.
@πάνταῥεῖ You make it sound like that one user is the only thing keeping the site nice... when they're making it a hostile environment.
From what I've seen, SO mods and SE staff have been fair with YCS for long long time.
The situation on SO isn't gonna get better if folks sit in their misery. That just says "we'll tolerate anything, but won't be happy about it"
@Shadow I've been throwing in that, because I believe it might need "discussion" ...
11:16 PM
@πάνταῥεῖ what's to discuss? The "head of moderators" moderate the network by telling a problematic user to leave, which can be seen as being rude?
It can, but come on.... YCS saw that coming.
@Catija Thanks for getting that change reverted by @JonEricson. That weird scrolling behavior was driving me crazy.
@SonicWizard Sure... :) I'm not sure why no one had written an answer before me. Most of what I said was already in the comments :D
@TimStone You can close my Stack Apps request for a user script to restore the old behavior as off-topic: stackapps.com/questions/7836/…
@SmokeDetector delete
@SonicWizard actually, Jon planned to do that long before that answer.
@DonaldDuck: I'm going to touch bases with the developer next week and see if this can be fixed. If it's not an easy job, I'll probably disable the setting altogether. I like it for posts with lots of comments, but those tend to be rare compared to the new post situation you describe. — Jon Ericson ♦ Mar 31 at 17:27
@Catija summed the comment nicely though, no doubt. :)
@Shog9 I believe I get your point. But "toleration" should also consider incoming (VLQ) posts. These have to vanish quicker, and certainly, to make the repository a better FAQ.
11:23 PM
@SonicWizard you can just delete it. No... ?
@ShadowWizard Why thanks :D
@ShadowWizard Want to leave it in place as I'll lose the rep (question upvotes award double rep on Stack Apps)
Also it can be reopened in case the same feature is reimplemented (I hate any type of jumping, even if it's regarded as non-intrusive by others)
@SonicWizard but in case that change comes back, you won't be able to reopen it yourself, you'll have to call for help again.
@Catija sure thing! :)
@ShadowWizard @TimStone is usually good at handling those requests quickly. One of their off-topic close reasons says to flag placeholder questions for moderator attention for reopening.
@πάνταῥεῖ dv, flag, delv... If that's not enough, then we have bigger problems
11:26 PM
By the way I suggested a tag wiki for @TimStone
@Shog9 I believe there might be bigger problemz, that's what I'm actually talking about. I don't have any problems with these actions, and just to shut up. But the flood needs to be throttled beyond.
@SonicWizard "... as I'll lose the rep ..." Fastest rep-w***e ever, or what??
Dignity!! Not gaming!
@πάνταῥεῖ the danger here is that this becomes seen as a battle between "the righteous rude" and "the hapless newb". And everyone takes sides, and guess which one has bigger numbers...
@Shog9 I see that point, and it might need some serious effort to be solved sufficiently.
@πάνταῥεῖ so, you look at say gnat's comment on that answer... And remember that this sort of thing has happened a lot before. Like... Going all the way back to the first day of public Stack Overflow.
Treat every new user like a new user. Yes, you've given the same advice dozens of times... but not to them... so getting frustrated that they won't learn is only hurting yourself. It's exhausting and annoying ... but until the network puts some major effort into "onboarding" new users somehow... the status quo isn't going to change... so you need to adjust rather than expecting people who have never used the site to do so.
11:36 PM
Pragmatically, I have a hard time seeing how being rude prevents bad questions. I suspect it increases the percentage of bad questions, which seems like a bad trade.
2008, 2012, 2014... 2018. Notice something there?
When we break on the side of "tools to improve quality", we actually seem to accomplish something. Like, things quiet down for a little bit.
24 hours ago, by nicael
Could anyone tell me why after 2014 the 2018 followed? How iz zat?
When we break on the side of "tools to combat rudeness"... It comes to a head again quicker.
@nicael What a coincidence
So "rude vs. newb" is a really dangerous place to be. If folks dig in behind "rude", it doesn't end well for anyone.
11:38 PM
@Shog9 @Catija Well, here's a very little piece of my opinion: https://codereview.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/8744/wouldnt-it-be-more-useful-to-notify-ops-automatically-about-close-votes-instea
And IIRC I've been proposing that at MSO as well times ago.
And when you have one user repeatedly posting poor-quality content... either the mods or the system will kick in and put an end to it. But being rude to people who are new and clueless doesn't make them less clueless, it makes them think that SO is a hostile place towards new users.
... which is the state of the network right now.
And confirms the dark rumors that it is.
There was an incident a while back where a 20k+ user on SO posted an off-topic question to force the creation of a tag. He then reacted rudely to comments saying that it's off-topic.
@Catija To be crystal clear: I am not supporting rudeness in any ways.
11:41 PM
@πάνταῥεῖ ... but you posted that link on programmers and the two people who responded to you (including me) felt that your comments were unnecessary... and yes, rude...
So, even if you don't condone it... you seem unable to see it in your own actions.
@SmokeDetector This guy has been going network-wide posting this crap... is there any way to stop him?
@Catija "but you posted that link on programmers" I've posted what, where exactly again please?
@Catija Maybe it's time to move to a neural network-based spam detection bot...SmokeDetector NG
Wikipedia's basic heuristics-based anti-vandalism bots (of which one was called ClueBot) became less and less effective as vandalism became more and more sophisticated. Later on, they created a new bot called ClueBot NG, which uses AI to detect vandalism, and it caught the majority of all vandalism until the authors were made to tune it to reduce false positives
(but it still catches about 40% of vandalism, whereas the old heuristics-based bots combined would only catch 5-10% of vandalism)
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in answer, bad keyword in username, blacklisted username, blacklisted website in answer, potentially bad keyword in answer: How did Turkey achieve such a quick military rebound after World War I? by The Away Days on history.SE
@Catija And can you actually point out what was rude about my comments there? I've been asking what the OP would expect as an answer to something quite obvious regarding all the wording they correctly referred themselves (that should be obvious even for a non programmer). Aren't I'm allowed to simply tell the OP that? Is that an extrapolation of @YCS's question?
11:51 PM
@πάνταῥεῖ Well, I can't really respond to that since the entire thing's been deleted.
@πάνταῥεῖ I haven't seen your comments, but your chat messages here sound a bit off-putting to some.
@Catija "since the entire thing's been deleted" Not from my mind, it's still there :-)
... you need to learn to let go.
Thanks to a few awesome people that helped us escalate issues today. It’s much appreciated. Ultimately we found a bug in the Azure portal UI blocking a peeing issue which an engineer helped us work past until it’s fixed.
@Catija Sure, let's learn to let go The Smithonian, The Alexandria Library, etc.
11:55 PM
Speaking of "going"... did he really mean "peeing"?
I think he intentionally put that typo to see how long it would take us to notice.
@SonicWizard that was the first word I noticed there.
@πάνταῥεῖ There's VERY few situations where telling someone to delete their posts is acceptable
@Catija Ask at the library for future confirmation please :-P ...
Implicitly sure - "Hi - you seem to have asked your question on the wrong site"
11:57 PM
@JourneymanGeek 3 AM. Yeah, morning!
@JourneymanGeek Again, I didn't really argue about that ... Read the whole transcript please.
I did
@πάνταῥεῖ so here's the thing. If someone is consistantly doing something they're asked not to do...
... so... if it's a typo, what's it supposed to say?
what's the other way to deal with it?
I already did... but I'm not sure if it was amusing enough.
s/enough/at all
11:59 PM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in answer, bad keyword in username, blacklisted username, blacklisted website in answer, potentially bad keyword in answer: What percentage of modern day Turks are of Bulgarian/Circassian/Greek/Serbian descent? by The Away Days on history.SE
@SmokeDetector That post is already deleted... why you bring here?
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