> Butterfly effect, ya know, a butterfly in Africa lands on a giraffe's nose, the giraffe sneezes, that spooks a gazelle, the gazelle bonks into a rhinoceros, and the rhinoceros blindly stampedes into a phone booth, calls New York somehow and says "Hey go kill this idiot Ron for a suitcase!" Because the rhinoceros speaks English!
Does anyone have some opinion about @YCS recent failure?
@TimPost's answer for them didn't seem to be at a much higher leve than what they've been banned for :-P ...
I've upvoted your answer here @Tim, because I've seen @YCS failing that many times at MSO with publishing their opinions at MSO. But TBH, leaving them with the statement LEAVE., isn't very much better than what you're claiming now is annoying about them. I'm well aware, that there might have been a number of discussions between (SO) site moderators, before taking the decision to ban YCS for a year (not to mention that the user name is a provocation at all). Hypocrisy in terms of just serving "Joel Spolsky" 's business needs, might be a serious point, which needs discussion. — πάντα ῥεῖ11 mins ago
Meanwhile I see, what the appropriate actions should be (even for high-rep members), but I also understand somehow that point of them, accusing for hypocrisy.
Summary: Parenting will begin the nomination stage for a special election on April 30, 2018 to bring in one more moderator.
Last year (has it really been a year?) I broached the idea of beta elections. As a pilot project, we're going to attempt running an election here on Parenting. This commun...
@πάνταῥεῖ Telling a user who has posted a single bad question or answer to delete it is absolutely different than telling a user who has been a long-time annoyance and who doesn't understand the concept of "Be Nice" and will not accept that they are wrong to leave if they will not comply... yes. that's very different.
He doesn't tell them absolutely to leave... read the sentence immediately before it.
> If you think the site is so riddled with problems, or so irredeemable, or so annoying or offensive to the general sensibilities that shape your daily experience ...
I agree with what @Catija said, but I also think YCS is a symptom (as well as a problem). There are hundreds of users who feel/act the same way... while their actions are unreasonable, at the same time, they have legitimate grievances, so banning them all will just grow a new crop of YCSs.
Anyone is allowed to feel the way they wish. The problem is when they act on it. It's not difficult to just shut up and move on... he's got plenty of rep to downvote and delete vote any negatively-scoring post he wishes... so if they're really that bad, telling the user to delete themselves is a waste of his time. Let the system take care of it and you don't end up shitting on someone... win win.
@Catija "It's not difficult to just shut up and move on..." Let's agree to disagree, it's a hard job, if you're about site quality moderation. Keeping to "be nice" along certainly is a though job sometimes.
I know that aggregations are types of associations that represent ‘part-whole’ relationships.
The ‘whole’ side is often called the assembly or the aggregate
This symbol is a shorthand notation association named isPartOf
This question is just to confirm,
VehiclePart isPartOf Vehicle? Or th...
@πάνταῥεῖ I think the best option might be to not comment at all. Nothing constructive can come of commenting, you're either going to give them the answer they could've found easily or make them think you're rude.
@Catija I'm a programmer, and software architect. And we have to deal with such shit all day long. Students don't care about reading the policies, and demand their homework being done all day long by us, and don't give a blink of their own efforts. I can understand @YCS' actions to a degree.
@πάνταῥεῖ So stop? If you're not having fun any more... SE is supposed to be fun. If bad content is annoying you so much you're making the site look hostile by posting comments that tell someone to delete their own post... you're beyond needing to take a break and spend time doing something else.
@Catija " If you're not having fun any more" That's not my point of using SE. I'm using the SE sites as a professional resource, and being crucial for my "real" daily work (feeds a family!!). That's what my concerns about quality are, not just fun!
@πάνταῥεῖ telling someone to delete their post because it's wrong (be it question or answer) is not helping site quality. Even with the small change the person will actually delete their answer, they likely won't ever come back, even if they have positive contributions to give. All in all, that only hurts the overall site quality. As @Catija said, we can moderate by downvote/close/delete - sometimes with constructive comments, by "you suck" comments are far from that.
@πάνταῥεῖ here's my take on that: if I'm getting paid to hand-hold folks through their research and problem solving, it doesn't have to be fun. If I'm going to do it on my own time, it should be... If not "fun and games" fun, then at least rewarding fun.
Banging your head against a wall all day sucks bad enough when there's a paycheck at the end of it.
@ShadowWizard I support that someone could get into that trouble, being eager to enhance the site's quality. I don't support any rudeness (and at least I don't support @Tim's kinda rude statement LEAVE). That was all of my point.
@πάνταῥεῖ so what's better? Keep the game going, trying to persuade YCS his actions are wrong? That can last for eternity. Tim gave the only advice that will cause the problem to go away.
@SonicWizard actually, Jon planned to do that long before that answer.
@DonaldDuck: I'm going to touch bases with the developer next week and see if this can be fixed. If it's not an easy job, I'll probably disable the setting altogether. I like it for posts with lots of comments, but those tend to be rare compared to the new post situation you describe. — Jon Ericson ♦Mar 31 at 17:27
@Catija summed the comment nicely though, no doubt. :)
@Shog9 I believe I get your point. But "toleration" should also consider incoming (VLQ) posts. These have to vanish quicker, and certainly, to make the repository a better FAQ.
@ShadowWizard @TimStone is usually good at handling those requests quickly. One of their off-topic close reasons says to flag placeholder questions for moderator attention for reopening.
@Shog9 I believe there might be bigger problemz, that's what I'm actually talking about. I don't have any problems with these actions, and just to shut up. But the flood needs to be throttled beyond.
@SonicWizard "... as I'll lose the rep ..." Fastest rep-w***e ever, or what??
@πάνταῥεῖ the danger here is that this becomes seen as a battle between "the righteous rude" and "the hapless newb". And everyone takes sides, and guess which one has bigger numbers...
@πάνταῥεῖ so, you look at say gnat's comment on that answer... And remember that this sort of thing has happened a lot before. Like... Going all the way back to the first day of public Stack Overflow.
Treat every new user like a new user. Yes, you've given the same advice dozens of times... but not to them... so getting frustrated that they won't learn is only hurting yourself. It's exhausting and annoying ... but until the network puts some major effort into "onboarding" new users somehow... the status quo isn't going to change... so you need to adjust rather than expecting people who have never used the site to do so.
Pragmatically, I have a hard time seeing how being rude prevents bad questions. I suspect it increases the percentage of bad questions, which seems like a bad trade.
@Shog9 @Catija Well, here's a very little piece of my opinion: https://codereview.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/8744/wouldnt-it-be-more-useful-to-notify-ops-automatically-about-close-votes-instea And IIRC I've been proposing that at MSO as well times ago.
And when you have one user repeatedly posting poor-quality content... either the mods or the system will kick in and put an end to it. But being rude to people who are new and clueless doesn't make them less clueless, it makes them think that SO is a hostile place towards new users.
There was an incident a while back where a 20k+ user on SO posted an off-topic question to force the creation of a tag. He then reacted rudely to comments saying that it's off-topic.
@πάνταῥεῖ ... but you posted that link on programmers and the two people who responded to you (including me) felt that your comments were unnecessary... and yes, rude...
So, even if you don't condone it... you seem unable to see it in your own actions.
@SmokeDetector This guy has been going network-wide posting this crap... is there any way to stop him?
@Catija Maybe it's time to move to a neural network-based spam detection bot...SmokeDetector NG
Wikipedia's basic heuristics-based anti-vandalism bots (of which one was called ClueBot) became less and less effective as vandalism became more and more sophisticated. Later on, they created a new bot called ClueBot NG, which uses AI to detect vandalism, and it caught the majority of all vandalism until the authors were made to tune it to reduce false positives
(but it still catches about 40% of vandalism, whereas the old heuristics-based bots combined would only catch 5-10% of vandalism)
@Catija And can you actually point out what was rude about my comments there? I've been asking what the OP would expect as an answer to something quite obvious regarding all the wording they correctly referred themselves (that should be obvious even for a non programmer). Aren't I'm allowed to simply tell the OP that? Is that an extrapolation of @YCS's question?
Thanks to a few awesome people that helped us escalate issues today. It’s much appreciated. Ultimately we found a bug in the Azure portal UI blocking a peeing issue which an engineer helped us work past until it’s fixed.
Summary: Parenting will begin the nomination stage for a special election on April 30, 2018 to bring in one more moderator.
Last year (has it really been a year?) I broached the idea of beta elections. As a pilot project, we're going to attempt running an election here on Parenting. This commun...
I know that aggregations are types of associations that represent ‘part-whole’ relationships.
The ‘whole’ side is often called the assembly or the aggregate
This symbol is a shorthand notation association named isPartOf
This question is just to confirm,
VehiclePart isPartOf Vehicle? Or th...
