Tavern on the Meta

AstroCB

00:00

0

A: Audit first-post review not anonymized (3.5k user answer used as the audit)

Stack Exchange developer Geoff Dalgas has fixed this problem. His answer to your Meta.SO question: I have audited our audit code and it should be faking up a low rep user and showing you the real rep after completion of the audit. The usercard should now be anonymized on all audits (it alw...

Yes! Stars replenished.

2

Unihedron

Yes! Now the rep cap is gone and I can go farm more!

bjb568

@AstroCB Congrats on 2k! Nice reviewing BTW, can't invite you to the robo party.

Also, you're a good user. You need 3k. I gave you some rep to get started :)

AstroCB

@bjb568 I read through the transcript of the room: they're not as angry as I would have expected them to be.

Unihedron

2k? Congrats! Enjoy your new privs

AstroCB

@bjb568 Why, thank you: I do my best.

bjb568

00:03

@AstroCB Yeah. Well, maybe the angry ones decline the invitations.

AstroCB

@Unihedron My favorite is full editing privileges: I can fix things without having to explain to at least three other people why I did so.

bjb568

Oh yeeees. I hate how I have to suggest edits on MSE.

OTOH, 10k is supposed to be great.

AstroCB

@bjb568 Viewing deleted Q/A would be quite useful.

bjb568

And delete votes.

hichris123

@bjb568 Y u no close vote the questions I posted???

bjb568

00:07

I guess the greatest privilege of all is binding votes…

@hichris123 I wasn't here. I'll start.

Wait… only 3?

I'm making a new room for closevotes, they should be separate from the tavern.

AstroCB

Gravatars disappearing again...

bjb568

status-norepro

AstroCB

It's only Gravatars. Imgur-hosted profile pictures show up fine.

status-bothersome

hichris123

status-norepro

Unihedron

@Unihedron recursion

bjb568

00:20

Closevotes

Post questions you want closed here with the same syntax as ex...

AstroCB

Oh: I can edit posts on Meta.SO now.

bjb568

@AstroCB Yup.

And review.

Unihedron

@bjb568 Can't join you, not at 3k yet.

bjb568

@Unihedron You can flag.

Unihedron

@bjb568 Good idea.

AstroCB

00:22

The good old days (of 3 months ago).

That post's a mess. I was using HTML instead of Markdown: I'll edit it in celebration.

@bjb568 I'd also really like the ability to do inline tag edits.

bjb568

I want to DELEEEEET!

Unihedron

00:35

delete ALL the things, ALL!!1

bjb568

stackoverflow.com/…

Put your CVs in the room!

(while I leave… gtg)

user163250

DELETE! >:D

user163250

00:51

cv-plz duplicate stackoverflow.com/questions/15805113/…

Braiam

> (EE) Server terminated successfully (0). Closing log file.

2

...

user163250

cv-plz duplicate stackoverflow.com/questions/19225728/…

user163250

cv-plz duplicate stackoverflow.com/questions/23446108/…

user163250

01:09

@JanDvorak hey, how do I get access to the JavaScript room?

Braiam

2

AstroCB

0

Q: Output of question do not includ all part of it

What I see there php runtime variable is not working in if else condition at runtime if else is not working var r=confirm("Do u want to change?"); if (r==true) { x=6; } else { x=0; } document.write(x)"; ?> What I see there http://stac...

bug

user163250

@Braiam :P

Jason C

Ah yes, the sweet sound of falling objects and breaking glass in a distant part of the house. <3 cats.

user163250

cv-plz duplicate stackoverflow.com/questions/17939092/…

Unihedron

01:17

I just answered a question with the most beautiful regex I've ever written in my life.

Braiam

@Unihedron ugh

abomination!

user163250

cv-plz duplicate stackoverflow.com/questions/14620429/…

Braiam

son of evil!

bjb568

0

A: Why was this 'not an answer' flag declined?

I think it's right to burninate, the tag very ambiguous. Should I start now?

Unihedron

The relief, you know? :P

bjb568

01:20

@Unihedron You shall be closed as dup! stackoverflow.com/q/24183856/2371861

In punishment for your actions!

Unihedron

@bjb568 I know. I casted a close vote as well. It just never got enough to get closed.

bjb568

Let's meta it!

Unihedron

o_O

AstroCB

Oh...my. stackoverflow.com/a/25298480/3366929

Unihedron

@AstroCB wat

AstroCB

01:24

@Unihedron "be afraid, be very afraid"

Braiam

"Pro Tip: Mods do not look at the question when moderating "Not an Answer" flags." yet the LQRQ do show the answer, so user can evaluate an answer in a specific context. Why moderators don't? Is there any feature request that should be done? I remember that even the 10k tools allowed users to read the question in the same page, why mods don't have such feature? — Braiam 15 secs ago

bjb568

Snowden…

AstroCB

bjb568

@AstroCB :O

Unihedron

@AstroCB Isn't it beautiful?

bjb568

01:25

No.

Braiam

^ probably the most game-changing feature

AstroCB

@Unihedron Whatever you say.

bjb568

Why is this downvoted? meta.stackoverflow.com/a/253568/2371861

user163250

I need Android experts.

hichris123

@Cupcake oy.

user163250

01:32

I caught something that might be plagiarism.

user163250

Here's the (maybe) original: stackoverflow.com/a/10148023/456814

user163250

Here's what (might be) a copy: stackoverflow.com/a/20015435/456814

bjb568

Plagiarism.

user163250

I don't know if the code that's used is common for Android or not.

hichris123

@Cupcake ... probably not.

user163250

01:33

@bjb568 what if it comes from a common tutorial or something?

bjb568

@Cupcake Then both are plagiarism!

hichris123

@Cupcake Well, it might... lemme google.

bjb568

pastebin.com/vhiTy9ks

hichris123

google.com/…

user163250

I don't know, the formatting that was used seems to be a giveaway...

user163250

01:37

You know, the bold.

bjb568

Flag for a mod to investigate.

hichris123

... yay, SCRAPER report time... sigh

user163250

@hichris123 so many scrapers :P

sectus

How make this question more clear: meta.stackoverflow.com/q/268674/1503018 ?

Hi

AstroCB

@bjb568 Why are people upvoting that question?

bjb568

01:42

1 CV. stackoverflow.com/questions/25298505/…

user163250

@sectus let me see...

bjb568

@AstroCB Because it's a good answer?

AstroCB

@bjb568 I meant the question: I'm not sure why both answers are down voted.

bjb568

@AstroCB Dunno. Downvote it.

Meta is weird.

@AstroCB BTW, every time you edit, I get pinged.

user163250

@sectus the question is clear.

AstroCB

01:43

@bjb568 Already done. I would get way too many notifications.

user163250

Are you worried about the downvotes?

sectus

@Cupcake , i do not really care about downvotes. But commets shows that it was misunderstood.

AstroCB

@sectus I tried to fix it up earlier, but I wasn't really sure what you are asking. I get that it shows up in the edit history and not on the post, but it was unclearly worded.

user163250

@sectus let me see...

AstroCB

@bjb568 I got pinged five times from that message.

user163250

01:46

@sectus is your question about how the other question looked in its first revision? stackoverflow.com/revisions/25298505/1

bjb568

@AstroCB Don't you mean chat.meta.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/2310583#2310583 ?

AstroCB

@bjb568 You're right: wrong one.

bjb568

I'm wrong right one: the right side of the road is the right side of the road.

sectus

@Cupcake , look at my revision: stackoverflow.com/posts/25298505/revisions

With side-by-side. Only two symbols in the body cause magnifical changes to question.

user163250

@sectus what two symbols did you change?

bjb568

01:50

\ns?

sectus

probably

user163250

@sectus explain that in your question, and link to the 2nd revision.

user163250

Or explain to people to take a look at the 2nd revision specifically.

sectus

How to insert an image to question?

Is there any stackoverflow.file service?

user163250

@sectus hit CTRL+G

bjb568

01:54

imgur.

user163250

@sectus yes, SO has its own image hosting service.

user163250

cv-plz duplicate stackoverflow.com/q/21200314/456814

sectus

Thanks

user163250

@sectus you can just copy and paste right into it after you hit ctrl G. You're welcome.

bjb568

@Cupcake Nobody thoonk you.

user163250

02:03

@bjb568 :P

sectus

Thoonk you

AstroCB

@JeroenVannevel what if we have this feature that can make a question unanswerable until the question becomes clear? well maybe a moderator can do that for us? — Mahan 4 mins ago

That exactly describes the closing process, right?

You'd think someone with 3.7k rep would know about closing.

bjb568

@AstroCB But default closed state is better (for new/low-quality users).

Why did OP accepted this answer?! WTH is going on? I'm so confused.... — Braiam 15 mins ago

sectus

Quick question. Can I add tag solved-in-comments to questions that solved in comments?

bjb568

@sectus No.

sectus

02:07

It's was very quick. But why? This tag could help to search for unanswered question only.

user163250

@sectus have the person who wrote the comment leave an answer, or add your own community wiki answer.

user163250

cv-plz recommendation stackoverflow.com/questions/14196301/…

AstroCB

@Cupcake How did that question get four upvotes?

I must be active in the wrong tags...

bjb568

four |fôr| cardinal number
equivalent to the product of two and two; one more than three, or six less than ten; 4:

Weird definitions.

But you're right, @cupcake

Shog9

way to polish a turd, boys

close, decline, decline

bjb568

02:21

What?

user163250

@Shog9 are you referring to the Meta question?

AstroCB

I get to leave interesting edit summaries now.

bjb568

@Shog9 Those answers weren't NAA?

@AstroCB Good.

user163250

@bjb568 don't even get me started.

Braiam

@bjb568 in the context of the question they are answers

user163250

02:23

Legit answers to crappy questions.

Shog9

The question:

> Please give me some suggestions. I have searched lots of sample projects, but none of them are working: Please provide me with any sample projects.

bjb568

But NAA is supposed to not depend on the question.

Shog9

The answers:

> here's a sample project!

AstroCB

Gah.

Shog9

As the old saying goes, ask a stupid question...

Braiam

02:23

@Shog9 you need to reimplement the brainwash on moderators...

bjb568

@Shog9 So the NAA flag magically bends to not delete crap?

Shog9

@Braiam what, minty-fresh Scope isn't cutting it anymore?

Braiam

they presume that NAA's don't have to take into account the context of the question

bjb568

@Braiam Isn't that part of the definition of NAA?

Shog9

@bjb568 NAA just means "this doesn't attempt to answer the question". Pretty sure it says that in the flag text somewhere. If the question is "gimme some crap" then...

@Braiam no, we need mod tools that show flagged answers in context. Workin' on it.

3

Braiam

02:25

@Shog9 YAY

Shog9

Still doesn't help if folks flag answers when they should be flagging questions.

Braiam

feature request post adverted

bjb568

@Shog9 Ok, so I should go flag every answer like this?

Shog9

No

he said without clicking the link

Anna Lear

@bjb568 meta's a special case in any ... case

Braiam

02:26

:(

user163250

cv-plz too broad stackoverflow.com/questions/24523030/image-carousel-in-android

user163250

@Shog9 that's what I keep telling people around here :P

Anna Lear

The gist of it is "if you see what looks like a crappy answer that is exactly what the question asked for, consider flagging the question"

Shog9

sooo tempted to move that answer to an unrelated question where it makes sense...

bjb568

So flaggers have to accommodate for broken mod tools?

Braiam

02:27

ok, then let me put it this way @Shog9, @AnnaLear, someone posted the answer in the wrong question, what should I do?

Shog9

waffles

Anna Lear

@bjb568 shrug You could look at it that way. Or ... you could consider the possibility that questions could be flagged too.

bjb568

@AnnaLear Oh, as VLQ?

Braiam

@Shog9 only with marmalade

Shog9

marmalade is for stir-fry

Anna Lear

02:28

@bjb568 off-topic, too broad, unclear, whatever applies.

Shog9

what are you, a savage?

bjb568

@AnnaLear That's called voting. Close voting.

Anna Lear

@bjb568 Not for questions that are off-topic, unclear, too broad...

Braiam

Dominican with pride! :P

bjb568

@AnnaLear What?

Anna Lear

02:29

"On topic but kind of crap" = downvote. "Off-topic because it asks for tools" = "flag/vtc"

This isn't hard.

bjb568

Close if it meets a reason.

Anna Lear

You're welcome to try to come up with perfect rules, but it really comes down to "use your best judgement".

2

bjb568

Anyway, I gtg.

Anna Lear

This system would be perfect if not for humans.

3

Shog9

I'm confident we'll achieve perfection one day

Braiam

02:30

the utopic workplace: build tools not designed to be used by humans

(and I'm sure they will try, nonetheless)

user163250

@bjb568 nighty nighty, don't let the downvotes bitey! >:D

user163250

@Shog9 maybe when the machines all replace us.

user163250

It's gonna happen someday...

user163250

I saw it in the movies a few times.

Anna Lear

@Cupcake >.> <.< >.>

user163250

02:33

@AnnaLear what kind of emoticons are those?

Anna Lear

@Cupcake shifty eyes

Shog9

the smallest kirby dance ever

user163250

Ah.

Braiam

@Shog9 I KNEW IT!

Anna Lear

Kids these days.

user163250

02:33

:P

user163250

Brad's going to work stackoverflow.com/a/15805184/456814

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector ] All-caps title: NO DATABIND() ON DATAGRIDVIEW C# on stackoverflow.com

Anna Lear

I think 10:40pm is a fine time to head home. @Shog9 is here to hold the sarcasm fort.

Jamal

I'm so excited...

user163250

@AnnaLear nighty night!

Brad Larson

02:52

@Cupcake - "Strawberry Shortcake"?

AstroCB

Who wants a script to hide posts with a score of less than 0 from the front page?

user163250

@BradLarson I've got a theme going, can you tell?

AstroCB

0

Q: Hide negatively-voted posts from the front page

About The current threshold for posts on the front page is -4. Often times, that threshold is not high enough: many posts in the -3...0 range are low-quality. This simple script hides posts with a score less than 0 from the front page. It was inspired by this post on Meta Stack Overflow. Down...

script voting front-page

user163250

@BradLarson data.stackexchange.com/users/6219/cupcake?order_by=favorite

Cole Johnson

cv-plz stackoverflow.com/questions/2609857/…

SmokeDetector

02:53

[ SmokeDetector ] Bad keyword detected: as Bred 11s been raising on tex.stackexchange.com

Brad Larson

So how does the query work, you feed in a userID and it finds all posts matching one in their history?

AstroCB

Piña Colada
Turkish Delight
Black Licorice
Total Answers from Users with Parameters
French Vanilla
Waffles and Pancakes with Maple Syrup
Cherry Garcia
Crème brûlée
Banana Split
Strawberry Shortcake
Waffles and Pancakes

Cole Johnson

cv-plz stackoverflow.com/questions/2609857/…

user163250

@BradLarson it grabs all answers for a given user, and searches for exact matches with answers from other users.

user163250

It does a self-join on the Posts table, so it can take a while to run.

user163250

02:54

At most like 1.5 minutes.

Brad Larson

That plagiarism query has an impressive way of digging up stuff on some people I've suspected for a while. It's a real pain to search for this stuff.

user163250

@BradLarson the thing is, it will only find exact matches.

user163250

Once you find someone who's plagiarized once, there's a good chance they have other non-exact match plagiarized answers.

user163250

I don't have a query for that. Yet.

Braiam

This question appears to be off-topic because it is about spam — Paul Gessler 23 secs ago

2

-_-

Brad Larson

02:56

Those are the first and easiest things to deal with, and most people are too lazy to change much.

user163250

True.

user163250

I found this one guy though who's a real piece of work.

user163250

40 verbatim plagiarized answers, plus a bunch more that aren't exact matches.

2

Brad Larson

The search alone is useful, because we've had people who had 100+ plagiarized posts, and I had to go and find phrases by hand to punch into Google to get the sources.

Braiam

@BradLarson aren't that autoflags?

user163250

02:57

@BradLarson wow, yeah, that's painful.

Brad Larson

@Braiam Only if the posts they copied were their own.

Braiam

@BradLarson fail...

user163250

@BradLarson I've got variations on shortcake in my SEDE profile if you want to take a look later.

Brad Larson

@Braiam If the system had to do a check against all other posts in the database every time someone posted something, that would not scale.

user163250

They're all code named, because I didn't want to make it obvious that I'm making anti-plagiarism queries.

user163250

03:00

I've got one that will dredge up a ton of results for you for multiple users:

user163250

data.stackexchange.com/stackoverflow/query/217361/…

user163250

600+ results. Have fun with those.

Santa Claus

@Cupcake I'm wondering why you're discriminating against people from certain countries

Braiam

@SantaClaus DB is slow...

Brad Larson

I don't think you need to be secretive with these. Frankly, plagiarists tend to be lazy by definition, so they aren't going to be reading Meta or whatever. If you need more eyes on these, I wouldn't be afraid to post them somewhere public.

2

user163250

03:01

@SantaClaus it's because I've found that those users are the ones who are doing the most plagiarizing :P

Santa Claus

@BradLarson You say that like chat isn't public

user163250

@SantaClaus most users don't venture into chat.

user163250

I've been using SO for around 4 years, and I never really got that involved with chat until around the middle of this year.

Braiam

can someone flag this? tex.stackexchange.com/q/196296/33619

Santa Claus

@Braiam done

user163250

03:04

@BradLarson I'll consider it. I sent the queries off to the SE team to see if they can do anything to make taking care of plagiarizers more efficient.

user163250

I've never used so many flags in a day :P

Santa Claus

This whole "sit here and read chat" thing is too hard.

Brad Larson

@Cupcake We've been talking about stuff like this for years, because of how hard it is to find in the first place, then find the sources for other posts once you have a known plagiarist. Bohemian was working on a query for this at the same time as he was tinkering with a spam query for things with links at their end.

user163250

@BradLarson well, the exact matches aren't hard to find, as you can see with shortcake. It's the non-verbatim cases that are definitely a big pain.

user163250

I think it would be cool if there was a tool that utilized both SE's Elastic Search as well as Google to automate finding sources for those.

Brad Larson

03:09

@Cupcake For those, you always have to find some distinctive but short enough phrase you can put in quotes and kick to Google. The on-site search is not always useful for that. I also generally ignore code for those and only look for copied wording.

user163250

@BradLarson I've actually had good success using the on-site search to find plagiarized code.

user163250

I often still have to use snippets though.

Brad Larson

Ugh, some of these plagiarized posts where the plagiarized copy got way more upvotes than the original did really make me sad.

6

user163250

@BradLarson I know right?

user163250

The plagiarizer gets to keep the rep if the post is old enough too, right?

user163250

03:13

Even after deletion?

Brad Larson

I think so, if it has 6+ votes. Forget the rules on that.

Braiam

+3 and 60 days

Brad Larson

@Cupcake - For stuff like this: stackoverflow.com/a/14825380/19679 where the code is drawn from a central source, like Android documentation, my preferred way of handling those is to add a reference to the documentation. I'm not as concerned with code snippets from public documentation examples, more copied wording.

user163250

@BradLarson okay, I'll keep that in mind going forward.

Brad Larson

Code snippets get passed around, and people lose track of sources for them. I don't get as angry about that as I do taking credit for other people's words.

user163250

03:18

Makes sense.

user163250

I'm going to call it a day, I'll definitely consider posting my queries to Meta sometime in the coming weeks, it would be nice to get help flagging posts. Of course, that also means more work for you mods, @BradLarson ;)

Brad Larson

@Cupcake It'd be nice to get more eyes on these, as long as it doesn't turn into a lynch mob against certain users. Have to figure out a way to get all this plagiarism cleaned up without publicly calling out specific people.

bjb568

03:33

@Cupcake Not to bed. To things.

The Wobbuffet

04:19

My friend and I are in my room with 2 ds's, a laptop, an ipad, an iphone, an ipad charger, and a dsi/3ds charger. We will not sleep! ZzzzZzzz...

AstroCB

If anyone's reviewing suggested edits right now, please watch out for this user adding the google-analytics tag to things without fixing the rest of the post (I've run out of reviews).

Also, please reject this: stackoverflow.com/review/suggested-edits/5537244.

SilentKiller

Good Morning Friends...!!! Have Great day ahead...!!!

AstroCB

It was approved...

BoltClock's a Unicorn

Is "plagiarese" a language spoken in India?

When askers reply to plagiarized answers the plagiarists respond with even more plagiarism

It's baffling

Now that I think about it, they're starting to look like parrots to me

And not the really smart ones that can learn language on their own

Jason C

04:35

@BoltClock'saUnicorn No but I think it's somewhat of a norm for people to take credit for others' work, including your own. So maybe it's more natural and not as frowned upon.

BoltClock's a Unicorn

@JasonC I can understand it if it's with answers, but when people post copied content in comments it makes it sound as if they speak in copied content and it's just so weird

AstroCB

@BoltClock'saUnicorn Can you do something about this user? He's mass-adding the google-analytics tag to a bunch of posts without fixing anything else and they're being approved like crazy. I @replied him on one of the posts, but my comment was ignored.

Jason C

@BoltClock'saUnicorn It does seem like an odd amount of effort to spend plagiarizing, doesn't it.

BoltClock's a Unicorn

@AstroCB stackoverflow.com/review/first-posts/5537261

I wonder what he reviewed

AstroCB

Flag?

BoltClock's a Unicorn

04:39

Oh

AstroCB

@BoltClock'saUnicorn The first page and a half of his activity history is all suggested edits that only add that tag.

BoltClock's a Unicorn

@AstroCB I can't find your comment. Perhaps he was never notified of it

AstroCB

@fernandopasik If you're going to mass-add the google-analytics tag to posts, at least fix other issues with them: as they stand, your edits are too minor. — AstroCB 17 mins ago

@BoltClock'saUnicorn He just earned 30 rep from suggested edits for adding a tag to 15 posts, and he did the same thing with the mongoose tag four days ago. He's only had one rejected edit.

BoltClock's a Unicorn

Thanks Oba— I mean roboreviewers

Andy

@BoltClock'saUnicorn I apologize if those plagiarism flags are bumming you out. I just flagged for posts from a 10K user that copied from another user for you too.

Infinite Recursion

04:48

@AstroCB : Your comment had effect. Now he is editing. stackoverflow.com/review/suggested-edits/5537348

BoltClock's a Unicorn

@Andy No worries

AstroCB

@InfiniteRecursion That's good, but it doesn't change his ridiculous edit history; I can't believe he got that far adding one tag to the post with only one rejection.

user163250

cv-plz duplicate stackoverflow.com/questions/5849092/…

AstroCB

@Cupcake All of those (poor) answers, and the OP accepts his own...

user163250

@AstroCB wait, what?

user163250

04:52

There's no accepted answer there.

Infinite Recursion

@AstroCB It's common in suggested edits queue. I mentioned the same in one of Banana's posts recently meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/268033/…

AstroCB

@Cupcake Look at the bottom (accepted isn't at the top if it's a self-answer).

Infinite Recursion

@Cupcake There is, at the bottom. Solve it...thank everyone

user163250

I have little sympathy, the first two answers are probably plagiarized anyways :P

AstroCB

@InfiniteRecursion I've definitely experienced the opposite, which is why I've learned to write detailed edit summaries.

@Cupcake "How do I use HTML with .text()?" - "Use .html()."

user163250

04:55

@AstroCB meh, I guess I won't bother flagging those, too short.

user163250

Could be a false positive.

animuson

I was going to go play around in Android Studio. Is it me or is that program extremely slow?

user163250

@animuson is it running Eclipse?

BoltClock's a Unicorn

@Cupcake lol wut

Infinite Recursion

@AstroCB : Yes, you wrote really good summaries. You crossed 2K, congrats! Welcome to the suggested edits review queue. Now you will see some great edits and reviews. And an annoying orange icon at the top showing pending reviews.

@animuson Android studio is slow for me too

AstroCB

04:57

@InfiniteRecursion Thanks, and yes: that's a bit annoying when you're out of reviews for the day.

user163250

@BoltClock'saUnicorn yeah, on second thought, probably not plagiarized :/

AstroCB