Tavern on the Meta

user163250

6:04 PM

Wow, obviously I missed a lot of action/drama while I was away baking:

user163250

meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/265900/…

user163250

Of course, none of that is a surprise at all, now is it?

user163250

Also, I'm kind of bummed my answer turned out to be a waste of time, if it was just going to be deleted.

user163250

But I guess I should've seen that outcome coming from a mile away :P

Bart

Myeah, the question should perhaps have been killed off earlier. Now it was a lot of hubbub, and nothing is left to prevent other such questions.

rene

6:24 PM

@JanDvorak It is closed and deleted but has one undelete vote...

Jan Dvorak

@rene by the OP, I guess

rene

@JanDvorak Possible, probably proud about his question or didn't want his run for the new badges be spoiled...

Is it flag overflow for the mods? I have 12 pending flags for 20 hours

user163250

I want to put in a delete vote for this since it's a duplicate answer, can anyone spare a downvote?: stackoverflow.com/questions/7318918/…

user163250

@rene I have 33 pending flags that have been sitting around for about a month and a half.

user163250

Maybe 2 months.

rene

6:28 PM

Oh, ok I won't complain then....

Jan Dvorak

@rene mods like to handle other flags in order of importance

rene

I'm important?

Anna Lear

Current flag count on SO, not counting comment flags: 1443. Of those, 1033 are "other".

user163250

Wow.

user163250

Is that a typical ratio?

rene

6:29 PM

Oh...wow indeed....mine are in the 1033 haystack

Jan Dvorak

what's the ETA of a special supernova for spam flags?

Andy

@AnnaLear Is there a way to narrow down our own flags by status? I've had a few pending for a while.

Anna Lear

@Andy No, sorry

user163250

3

A: Flagging summary improvement : filters

The issue of showing individual posts as valid / invalid tends to be an emotive one - with people tending to demand why was this flag not marked valid? I DEMAND JUSTICE! at the moment we'd prefer to avoid this level of focus on individual flags, hence why we don't display this (even though ...

user163250

The Powers That Be don't like that idea.

user163250

6:31 PM

Too much whining about declined flags.

Anna Lear

@Cupcake I don't think a "handled/not handled" filter would have the same impact, although it would probably lead people to whine about not having their flags handled RIGHT NAO

Jan Dvorak

@Cupcake just one answer, 3yo, not many votes

user163250

Well of course it's not going to have many votes.

user163250

It's not a popular answer :P

user163250

"No, we will not give this to you. Now shoo."

Jan Dvorak

6:35 PM

Who wants to bounty that?

Anna Lear

@JanDvorak Not much point in doing that.

rene

@AnnaLear Is there now and then a script running that flag old posts that are library recommendations? Or are our friends from Charcoal doing that?

Jan Dvorak

should I go ahead and start coding?

Anna Lear

@rene We don't run any scripts that create flags on old posts. That's all user-generated.

Jan Dvorak

Wow. I thought...

Anna Lear

6:40 PM

@JanDvorak a user script could probably do some filtering/sorting on the page if one wanted to add that... I'm kind of on board with splitting the list by "handled/not handled", and I'll throw that on my mental list of "moderation improvements", but our primary goals right now is to reduce the load on moderators, not fiddle with flag history presentation.

Bart

@AnnaLear that is not a problem solved by "more moderators"?

Anna Lear

@Bart Past a certain point, no. That doesn't scale.

Not to mention that Stack Overflow is popular enough to have people who want to have the diamond but can't/won't actually spend time moderating and will nevertheless get elected.

Not to mention that people have lives. Basically, adding any number of mods is not a guarantee that the flag queue will go down and stay down.

Bart

Fair enough.

Thanks

Anna Lear

This is also why we now shuffle a lot of stuff into /review... which, to be fair, is creating other problems. :)

Bart

Haha, I can only imagine. If I see other Q&A sites (outside the network) which I tend to frequent, I'm always amazed at how SO is not yet such a pile of crap as those sites are.

user163250

6:50 PM

@AnnaLear speaking of /review problems, I've noticed that some people have a tendency to flag a lot of answers for VLQ, when in fact the whole question itself is crap and should be deleted.

user163250

It's kind of inefficient, in terms of both user time and usage of delete votes.

user163250

Maybe I'll suggest some changes to Shog on that MSE post of his.

Jan Dvorak

@Cupcake Please ping me when you do. So far I've only upvoted in that post

user163250

@JanDvorak is that a subtle way of saying that you disagree?

Jan Dvorak

@Cupcake nope. What exactly are you going to suggest?

Jamal

6:56 PM

cv-plz stackoverflow.com/questions/23486851/…

(needs some NAAs, too)

Amal Murali

^ Done

user163250

@JanDvorak I was thinking something along the lines of having an option to close or delete questions while reviewing a VLQ answer in the review queue, so that users don't waste time and votes getting rid of an answer when the whole question itself should go.

user163250

Recommendation questions being a good example.

Jan Dvorak

@Cupcake sounds useful, but it works both ways. I'm not sure you shouldn't flag the answers.

rene

7:25 PM

Can anyone spare a dv on this?

I'll flag for a mod...

Anna Lear

I deleted the answer, but left your flag up. Just ... what.

Spot-checking their other answers seems fine... No idea what wires got crossed on that one.

rene

Yeah, I'm checking a couple of others....

user163250

7:42 PM

@rene it looks like that user is copying other people's answers, verbatim.

rene

Uh, yes

I'm on a couple of those

user163250

Oh, you know, k nevermind.

rene

np

Jan Dvorak

cv-pls wtf-title stackoverflow.com/questions/24812300/…

someone just undownvoted it...

user163250

Meh, it's still got plenty of red and then some.

Vote to Close

8:09 PM

It appears that when I'm in the LQRQ (and possibly others) that if the next review takes longer to load, then it's an audit

anyone else notice that?

Jan Dvorak

reliably

not all audits take long to load, but no normal task does

rene

On the CVQ if you have older questions the loading takes a couple of seconds. Audit appear always quicker in that case....

user163250

-1 Just because there's a bad rule doesn't mean you should participate in enforcing it. You should look the other way and assume the user made a typo entering their age/date-of-birth. — R.. 48 secs ago

user163250

I never thought that this would be something controversial.

Vote to Close

some kids in some countries fight in wars at younger than 13

user163250

8:22 PM

@VotetoClose is that supposed to be an endorsement for child soldiers?

Jan Dvorak

Just because something happens it doesn't mean it's good

Jamal

@Cupcake Meta does tend to bring out some fascinating discussions.

Vote to Close

@Cupcake of course not, most wars are dumb since both sides politics are usually stupid and not worth having anyone fight for

user163250

@Jamal sometimes. Sometimes.

rene

@VotetoClose Make that all wars except Star Wars?

Jamal

8:26 PM

+1. Since there is no private messages on here, I don't think there's any risk for abuse or other nasty stuff, so why delete the account ? He'll just create a new one right away. — André Daniel 4 mins ago

Vote to Close

@AnnaLear would it be OK/ethical to modify a @rene SEDE query, to show something like the number of close votes that a moderator(s) have cast since they were elected?

Bart

Oh noes, visualizing public information. The horror!

Anna Lear

What Bart said.

So long as we provide the data publicly, do whatever you want with it. (So long as you follow attribution guidelines, etc. where needed.)

Vote to Close

Ok, thanks, good to know.

rene

You can't use my queries though to blame mods...

Jamal

8:30 PM

Pretty sure the law doesn't require you to report under-age users to SE. Personally, I think it's a dumb law, and I certainly wouldn't report any under-age user I saw. — Blorgbeard 38 secs ago

Bart

That's true. You don't have to report it. Nothing obliges you to do so.

Jamal

Users still missing the point. Oh well, I don't have to continue with it.

ɥʇǝS

No, you aren't required to report it, but if you don't there is potential for SE to get into legal trouble. Which would you prefer? — Seth 1 min ago

meh, that ought to finish it.. but somehow I doubt it.

Jamal

@Seth: You're not a lawyer, are you? — tmyklebu 38 secs ago

Bart

Hahaha, finishing internet arguments ... if only ...

4

Vote to Close

8:33 PM

@rene No, I wouldn't single out anyone, but it would be interesting info for the community to be able to look up if they wanted. Is that fine?

Jamal

And I see why SE refrains from having a law site. We get crap like this.

ɥʇǝS

I don't reply to dumb comments ;)

Jamal

Very simple solution: establish a new country for SE, free of "dumb" laws.

user163250

@Bart I guess someone will need to add an answer to that effect then.

Jan Dvorak

@Jamal that'll need to wait

Bart

8:35 PM

Is that a hint @Cupcake?

rene

@VotetoClose Sure, I was only joking...

user163250

@Bart I prefer to call it subliminal thought planting.

Jan Dvorak

s/li/lu/

user163250

Wow, I just got hit with 14 notifications on that question.

Vote to Close

@Cupcake SE could have everyone pay a monthly fee, or one time membership fee to join the SE network, and they could better verify age that way.

Jamal

8:41 PM

9

A: What do you do when you find an underage user using the site?

Use the contact form at the bottom of every page to send a message to the Stack Exchange team. Include the url for the user's profile as well as proof of age. What currently happens to underage user accounts They're deleted and all personally-identifying information we have about them is remove...

> This type requires an employee to push a special red button

bjb568

@R.. Agreed. On the internet, nobody knows if you're a dog. Maybe it's a dog pretending to be a child. Or an adult pretending to be a child. And a child can pretend to be an adult. Just because an age is mentioned doesn't mean it's true or that it makes sense to act on it. — bjb568 39 secs ago

Vote to Close

@Cupcake you should've really posted that on meta.SE instead.. it's a network wide thing..

Bart

@Cupcake haha, I guess I'll leave it at Anna's update though. Whatever you answer, you're only going to hear how "stupid" or "American" the situation is. Not sure that any answer is going to be satisfactory for them.

Jamal

No blaming of Obama yet, though. That's a start.

2

Jan Dvorak

@Jamal yet

bjb568

8:47 PM

IMO, anything concerning age is stupid and should be avoided as much as possible.

Jan Dvorak

@bjb568 even sex and alcohol?

bjb568

Intelligence as a measure of intelligence over age as a measure of intelligence.

Jan Dvorak

I agree about birthdays, though

casey

@JanDvorak those don't concern age. Society's laws about them do however.

Bart

@bjb568 absolutely. I'm 34 and an absolute idiot.

5

bjb568

8:50 PM

There you go. Idiots shouldn't reproduce or be more idiotic with alcohol.

Vote to Close

@bjb568 good luck at trying to stop that

bjb568

:P

At least taking some kind of test is better than blindly looking at a birth year.

Jan Dvorak

a blood test?

bjb568

An intelligence test.

Think high school diploma.

Jamal

cv-plz stackoverflow.com/questions/307066/…

Bart

9:10 PM

Couldn't resist @Cupcake

Now I sit and wait for an employee to tell me I'm completely wrong. :)

user163250

Is this going to give me a reputation for being a narc?

user163250

Or do I already have one?

user163250

62

Q: Offensive, inappropriate, and un-professional chat room names

I was browsing the front-page of Meta, and I noticed off to the right a very strange and kind of inappropriate name for a chat room: However, when I look at the chat room info directly, the name of the room appears as Lounge<C++> Questions Are chat rooms allowed to be named after genit...

user163250

@tmyklebu to be far, this particular user I encountered unintentionally vandalized his own question, which is what led me to take a look at his profile in the first place. — Cupcake 34 secs ago

user163250

Oh, it caches.

user163250

9:13 PM

Oh well.

user163250

Spelling error.

Bart

Don't worry about it @Cupcake.

If that is the reputation you get, you could always still run for mod. :p

Jamal

If I wrote this, I'd have added something like "if you have nothing better to do than to stop 12-year-olds from learning how to be better programmers, please spend your time on a different site." Only more offensive. — tmyklebu 7 mins ago

Someone would still say this with a straight face. :-)

user163250

I don't know who to accept anymore:

user163250

7

A: What do you do when you find an underage user using the site?

Standard disclaimer: I am not a lawyer. If you're really concerned about anything here, you should consult your own lawyer. (Is this even a legally valid disclaimer? I dunno, because I am not a lawyer.) As Jon said in his comment, our actions as team members are dictated by the US law COPPA. It ...

ɥʇǝS

9:19 PM

@bjb568 Do you realize how many people well above 13 would fail that?

user163250

I'll just let the votes dictate the winner.

bjb568

@ɥʇǝS Too many.

Jamal

You'd better accept Pops' answer, otherwise he'll Pop you right in the jaw.

4

bjb568

@Jamal Oh, so I should say it: If you report an innocent 12 year old to crush h(is|er) dreams of being a programmer, you are a monster! Go die in a sufficiently deep hole.

Bart

@Cupcake you can accept any answer you want as long as it's mine.

3

Who does this @Pops think he is anyway .... an employee? .... ah

ɥʇǝS

9:21 PM

@Pops vs @Bart.

gets popcorn

Jamal

I think Pops is going to Pop me right in the jaw for making another Pops joke. :-P

3

Bart

@ɥʇǝS I'm already hiding under my desk.

3

ɥʇǝS

hehe.

Jamal

<whisper>I don't think he can hear us.</whisper>

Pops

Whaaaaaa? When have I ever actually been mean to you guys?

3

Jamal

9:23 PM

Woahhhhhhhh... look at the time.

Bart

@Pops I remember when you were just good old Popular Demand ... you've changed ....

bjb568

@Pops You're... a moderator.

Pops

@Cupcake So... you're letting popular demand choose? I'm good with that.

Bart

:D

user163250

@Pops I hear that the winner gets to eat the losers.

Pops

9:27 PM

@ɥʇǝS Actually, our answers are oddly similar. I don't think Bart posted until after I started writing, either.

Jamal

►

bjb568

"Daily vote limit reached; vote again in 2 hours." That's a lot of comment votes...

Bart

Plot twist: Bart and Pops are separate personalities of the same user

Pops

@Cupcake Yeah, see, that's due to this other law that people can argue over....

user163250

If I had changed my question from
> What do you do when you find an underage user using the site?
to
> How do you report an underage user?
I think this would have been ***way*** less controversial.

user163250

9:28 PM

That just did not quote right at all.

bjb568

"How do you report an underage user?" Don't.

Formatting turns off when there's multiple lines.

user163250

That's not a valid answer to the question :P

bjb568

But it's correct.

Bart

Unless that users is trolling entire chatrooms while boasting he's under the age of 13 @bjb568. Time and time again. On multiple accounts .... true story :)

Pops

Hmph, I was hoping posting an answer would reduce the amount of pointless discussion. I'm going back to ignoring it.

bjb568

9:32 PM

@Bart Trolling is bad. Underage is irrelevant.

Bart

Just remembering the good old times @bjb568. The sound of explosions and account shrapnel everywhere .... ahhhhhhh

casey

@bjb568 not to us, but if the underage person is using their real name then SE can be held liable for illegally retaining personal information of a minor child under the age of 13, and SE does reside in the US jurisdiction. Dumb law, but it is law.

Anna Lear

Honestly, handling underage profile removals is my least favorite thing around here. It always sucks, and it sucks double when said underage profile actually has good content which happens.

casey

The onus is on the underage kid to not identify as such, so SE doesn't legally have to act.

bjb568

@casey So as long as SE doesn't find out about the age, the law doesn't need to be enforced.

@casey Yeah, there should be something to let all kids know that they have to lie.

Pops

9:38 PM

@bjb568 That has existed since the dawn of humanity. It's called "other kids."

Anna Lear

@bjb568 It's called common sense. Back in my day, you never revealed your age on the internet. ;)

Dammit, Pops has the better answer here.

4

Pops

@AnnaLear I WILL TREASURE THIS MESSAGE FOREVER

2

Bart

Back in our day there wasn't internet though @AnnaLear ;)

casey

@AnnaLear yep, kids these days are growing up in a culture where you share everything with everyone. It didn't used to be like that until AOL unleashed the a/s/l crowd on the world

Anna Lear

@Bart Good lord, how old do you think I am? ;)

Pops

9:39 PM

And @AnnaLear I like how you combined "crotchety old woman" with "young enough to have had Internet in your childhood" there.

bjb568

@AnnaLear Common sense isn't as common as you think.

Anna Lear

@bjb568 I'm well aware of that. I worked as a CM for a while.

I first got online at ... uh.... 14? maybe 13? Not 100% sure anymore. and this was from Russia. I bet the US was a bit further ahead by that time. ;)

Pops

"Common sense" is just code for "things that seem obvious to me because of the synthesis of innumerable little and not-so-little experiences I've had in my lifetime."

bjb568

In silicon valley, now, kids will use websites like Facebook at ages as low as 6 or 7.

Bart

@AnnaLear not going to answer that one

Pops

9:41 PM

So, you know, varies from person to person.

bjb568

That is true.

Anna Lear

@Pops Well, there's a way to look at it. We could be providing young programmers with an invaluable life lesson. ;)

Pops

Or we could provide them with invaluable programming lessons. Like, more than one.

Anna Lear

Whoa whoa whoa let's not get crazy there.

Braiam

someone called me?

user163250

9:55 PM

almost +1 for graphic violence in the title ;-) — Thilo Oct 19 '10 at 5:59

user163250

That comment is too chatty, but I already upvoted it a long time ago, can someone else flag it please?

user163250

...

user163250

Are you guys still talking about underage users?

Jamal

@Cupcake Done

user163250

@Jamal gracias.

Braiam

9:58 PM

@Cupcake NEED MOAR FLAGS

user163250

10:48 PM

cv-pls recommendation stackoverflow.com/questions/13474235/…

Jamal

Flagged

bjb568

The first answer looks weird.

Jamal

That is kinda weird. Oh well, downvotes are free.

Shadow Wizard

@Anna hey, feel like solving a mystery?

@Bart can't believe I am older than you! :D

Anna Lear

@ShadowWizard maaaaaybe. what's up?

Shadow Wizard

10:59 PM

2

Q: Inconsistent behavior when typing a number into the search field

Over at the Personal Finance & Money community, when I type 1040 into the search box in the upper right corner and hit Enter, it immediately returns the question with ID 1040, even though there are plenty of posts containing 1040. But when I type 193 into the search box, it returns a list of sea...

bug search post-id

spent a while trying to find a reason, utterly failed :(

Anna Lear

uhhh. I should know this one. this happened before.

Shadow Wizard

@AnnaLear also reproduced on Stack Overflow stackoverflow.com/search?q=777777

Anna Lear

I'll dig in a few.

Shadow Wizard

@AnnaLear thanks, can't beat a good solid mystery! :)

random

2

Q: Search with number (like '401') will take you to a question

I was very frustrated with 401s the other day and did a search on SO for 401. I got (http://stackoverflow.com/questions/395/how-to-switch-a-large-app-from-vb6-to-vb-net/401#401). Not a list of questions about 401. This appears to work for any number entered into the search.

bug status-completed stackoverflow

Braiam

11:04 PM

@random 4 digits seems like isn't enough

Shadow Wizard

Something changed since then, yep

Think we better leave the new report open

random

1040 seems like it has four or more digits

Shadow Wizard

Hmm... so first check is if there is a question having such ID and redirect, regardless of search results, @random?

random

First check if the search term is a number with four digits or more and the rest

Shadow Wizard

Right. @Anna no need to dig, mystery solved.

status-bydesign

random

11:09 PM

And if you wrap it in quotes, it comes with search results and eggroll

Shadow Wizard

True, @random, I wrapped this in an answer. :)

random

So then it's not a duplicate either, even though the answers are the same as the question is

Barack Obama there on the master question mentioned you have to wrap it in quotes

Shadow Wizard

@random Obama? Where did he come from out of the blue?

random

Meta lore

Shadow Wizard

Tavern lore you mean :)

random

11:18 PM

Does Tavern return a relevant conversation about Barack Obama using Stack Overflow?

Shadow Wizard

Anyway while it is mentioned, it's not 100% clear so my answer is more straight forward.

Braiam

> NSA Security-Enhanced Linux (SELinux)

random

'Searching "401" (with quotes) will return what you're after.' seems pretty clear

Shadow Wizard

The Tavern returns a relevant conversation about everything, @random.

random

6

Q: Is it ok to impersonate a public figure?

An answer to one of my questions has been commented on by the POTUS ... O RLY? While Jeff can't ask for the birth certificate of all the users, should suspected cases of impersonation be flagged by other users? Is it our place to be the impersonation police?

discussion etiquette user-accounts

Shadow Wizard

11:20 PM

@random it's in a different answer.

random

It's on the accepted answer at the top of the list of answers, yes

Shadow Wizard

@random so instead of going to the dupe/linked question and read all answers there I gave a new short and simple answer summing it all up. Not sure why you're against it, but it's your full right.

As for Obama, only three of them on Stack Overflow, 0 on MSE

random

The duplicate question is the one posted today. The master question was posted a while ago.

Tavern returns nothing relevant for Barack Obama

It's not like we don't already spread answers across multiple questions for the fun of it

Stack Exchange is about getting top quality answers to your questions placed in multitudes of locations

Shadow Wizard

Not sure if you're sarcastic or not, @random

probably yes but maybe not