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jadarnel27

15:03

Hey, @qwerty. FYI my dad enjoyed the movie (The Prestige), but he hasn't given it to me yet =)

qwertynl

@jadarnel27 haha oy. Y U NO CHANGE UR AMAZON ADDRESS?

jadarnel27

I did =)

...finally.

And you saw how unintuitive it is when you changed yours, right?

qwertynl

@jadarnel27 Yea... took me forever to figure it out.... So stupid that you have click on the little list settings button...

jadarnel27

Yeah, very odd indeed.

qwertynl

It is not even documented anywhere...

jadarnel27

15:15

True.

qwertynl

:-(

jadarnel27

@Shog9's description of how to use "unclear" and "too broad" is the opposite of how I intuitively think about it (if I'm understanding the explanation correctly, that is).

Shog9

@jadarnel27 then either I badly botched the explanation, or you have a weird intuition

jadarnel27

That's a good analysis of the situation haha.

Shog9

too broad: you're asking too much. Break it up. Maybe a lot.
Unclear: not sure how much you're asking for, or necessarily even *what* you're asking for. EXPLAIN YOURSELF!

jadarnel27

15:19

You're example, about writing an order entry system - well-written question, but the OP is inexperienced. You're saying that should be "unclear"?

(referring to your "take 3" answer, @Shog9)

Shog9

@jadarnel27 If you have yet to write your second function, asking how to write an order entry system is a bit much - that's too broad. here are some better examples.

jadarnel27

Thanks, @Shog9. I hadn't seen that yet.

hichris123

Oooh, 5 more rep to 2K!

Duncan

@Shog9 Do you expect that new off topic close reason to be used while a question is still open? (See my comment here).

Undo

@hichris123 Wow, that's weird. A random question upvote right after you posted that.

2

hichris123

15:26

@Undo Completly random, of course.

Undo

Of course

Have fun rejecting stuff!

Shog9

@Duncan uh, yes? You can't vote to close a closed question.

hichris123

Me will!

Duncan

Oooh, only 5,938 until I reach 10k! /hint hint

@Shog9 That was possibly the most stupid thing I've ever typed.

Shog9

oh, answered you meant

Duncan

15:27

Yes, that's what I meant!

Shog9

often, yes

Duncan

(My 10k message was a joke, hope that was obvious)

Shog9

110

Q: Close all the typo questions

Update 2013/03/06: I've been playing around in the Data Explorer (first time I've used it) and put together a basic query to help identify typo related posts a little better, improvements welcome: http://data.stackexchange.com/stackoverflow/query/edit/101573 select a.Id as [Post Link], a.Body f...

jadarnel27

Of course, implementing an order entry system is "too broad" for SO in general. But it sounds like your general guidance would be to err on the side of unclear (when it really is unclear what, specifically, the OP needs). Does that...sound about right @Shog9?

Shog9

That's the sort of thing I'm aiming at, @Duncan ^^^

@jadarnel27 correct

jadarnel27

15:29

Alright. Sorry to add to the deluge of people asking you to personally clarify the close reasons =)

This makes more sense to me now.

Shog9

"Too broad" is usually blatantly obvious. People will straight-up ask, "how do I write <describe or name some application that already exists with thousands of man-hours behind it>"

The unclear ones are where someone posts a list of requirements, and you can't really tell if they're doing it for context or if they actually expect you to buckle down and start coding up an app that meets them.

It's probably too broad, but since they didn't even bother to ask a question... it's unclear.

Duncan

I'm not entirely convinced we aren't in the midst of fixing something that wasn't broken.

Shog9

it was pretty broken

the fact that I woke up to a bunch of people handwringing on MSO about the loss of their "zero effort" close reason is evidence of that

it was never supposed to be used for that purpose

Duncan

That's certainly true.

jadarnel27

I think I've got my head wrapped around this now, @Shog9. Thanks. I just enjoy using the close votes queue, and wanted to make sure I continue to use it...correctly.

Shog9

15:34

I'm finding it much easier to review now. Not the least because I don't need to click twice to get to the reason I want.

jadarnel27

Yeah, that's definitely kind of nice.

rene

I see we have a new leader on the close vote queue leaderboard

for today that is

Duncan

I suppose its the simplicity of the new scheme that had me worried.

Plus I was already seeing some questions being closed incorrectly with the new off-topic reason. But that's par for the course, I guess.

jadarnel27

There is a scenario that comes to my mind, and I'm not sure it's super important.

Duncan

So, in the new scheme should this be closed?

0

Q: How to create regular expression for subnet mask for validation

Could someone please help me out to give a RE for subnet masking 255.255.255.255 I have added the text input in GWT and trying to create validation for that but I am not able to get one. Please help.

java gwt

Actually, bad example, because the request is confusing. What if that had been a very clear description of the regular expression the OP wanted?

jadarnel27

15:39

Still unclear, I think.

Shog9

@Duncan that's a duplicate, I'm fairly certain

Duncan

I guess I'm struggling with the lack of effort thing. I was guilty of thinking that was a reason to close.

But in general, if one were to request a small piece of code to solve a specific issue, would that be ok?

Shog9

@Duncan if it was clearly-written, descriptive title, test data illustrating what he wanted... I don't see a problem.

With the exception of that monster for validating emails, no one is breaking their back answering regex questions

They piss folks off for some reason, but... meh.

OGHaza

By far the easiest rep around

Shog9

@OGHaza easier than jQuery expressions? CSS selectors? Simple SQL?

jadarnel27

15:41

Question is asked, it is unclear. Question is closed for being unclear. The OP reads the close reason (ha!) and clarifies their question, making it crystal clear that the question is too broad.

Shog9

Every area has its low-hanging fruit

hichris123

True.

jadarnel27

That seems like...sort of a poor user experience.

OGHaza

@Shog9 haha fair enough

hichris123

The easiest way to get rep is to answer the simple questions.

jadarnel27

15:42

But I guess reading the Help Center in the first place would mitigate that.

Shog9

@jadarnel27 That's why Unclear links to a big "how to ask" document now.

Undo

Doesn't it feel great to implement a backup system and have it save your bacon five days later?

jadarnel27

@Shog9 Heh, right.

@Undo I'm sure it feels better than creating a backup system after the fact =)

Undo

@jadarnel27 Yeah, I've done that too :P

hichris123

Yay for inline editing!

Me likes so much better than >2K editing.

Undo

15:46

@hichris123 Oh, I had forgotten that horrific thing called page-reload-to-edit. Yeah, it's a lot better, huh?

hichris123

@Undo Yep, and no waiting on the suggested edit page to check if it's approved. :P

Undo

Yeah, that's good too.

You don't get rep from it anymore, though ;(

hichris123

> earned 134 reputation from suggested edits

Undo

Wow

hichris123

Not that much rep.

Way less than the 1000 rep cap on edits. :P

Undo

15:47

> earned 144 reputation from suggested edits

hichris123

Heh.

Undo

^ for me

Duncan

@Shog9 Any thoughts on the new close reason I suggested?. Supposing that isn't implemented, would that be "Unclear" as an alternative?

hichris123

5 less suggested edits for me. :P

Undo

> earned 262 reputation from suggested edits

^ me on space

qwertynl

15:49

@Undo How do you find out that info?

Undo

@qwertynl site.stackexchange.com/reputation

(if you're logged in)

hichris123

Or just stackoverflow.com/reputation

@Undo Your spam question got locked by Animuson. :(

qwertynl

> earned 150 reputation from suggested edits

Undo

@hichris123 Noooooo!!!

qwertynl

yay

Undo

15:50

That was getting me like 5 rep/day!

Shog9

@Duncan unless we can make it tag-specific, I'm not sure it really improves on Unclear.

hichris123

:P

Undo

Bad @animuson!

@animuson Go to the flag queue and I don't want to see you out of there until tomorrow.

And really, it's not an on-topic question for mSO?

hichris123

mSO is like the place for any question not related to programming. :P

Undo

Or gardening. We don't take well to gardening questions either.

hichris123

15:53

I like that they fixed some of the collision review editing, like on here: stackoverflow.com/review/suggested-edits/3778405#./…

Undo

@hichris123 Wait until you hit 10k somewhere, and you get inline tag editing. Then the inline editing page feels clunky :P

Duncan

@Manishearth Are you about?

Undo

@Duncan Nope

(or at least not here)

hichris123

@Undo Sounds pretty.

Okay, I get this: •hichris123 has approved 6 edit suggestions and rejected 3 edit suggestions

And then 10 in the bar at the top. I rejected one that was already approved.

Weird.

jadarnel27

@Undo people can still be pinged if they've been in here recently. Certainly Duncan is capable of seeing who is currently in the room as well.

Duncan

15:58

Who can change the accepted answer on CW questions. Is it just the very original poster?

Undo

@jadarnel27 Yes, but @Ma doesn't autocomplete. I think that means that it won't ping. Not sure.

@Duncan Yup

Very slick

jadarnel27

You can still ping when it doesn't autocomplete.

Undo

I stand corrected.

jadarnel27

If the user has chatted in the room somewhat recently.

Undo

(Yay!)

jadarnel27

15:59

It's all...sort of fuzzy.

Undo

@jadarnel27 But what defines somewhat?

Exactly

jadarnel27

The last time I read about it anyway.

hichris123

Chat's weird.

jadarnel27

I was just saying that your response to Duncan was both pointless, and possible incorrect.

Undo

@hichris123 Yeah.

It has to be

Otherwise it would be normal

And that would be bad somehow

jadarnel27

16:02

Oh. The threshold is 2 days, apparently.

So sayeth balpha.

Undo

Then it is true

jadarnel27

That is much less fuzzy than I thought it was.

Dukeling

Just found a question that uses a link - file.comp.ku.com/.... Tried to change it to file.comp.example.com..., but that didn't work (page not found).

Seemingly example.com doesn't like subdomains.

hichris123

Okay, someone really thought that they should edit a post just because their username changed? See here.

Joe

hey, congrats @hichris123 ... hit it on the nose!

hichris123

16:15

@Joe Yep, weirdly enough. 3K's my next goal (for CV's), but that's sometime in the feature. Thanks!

Joe

Just make sure you grab a few extra rep... when I hit 2k I briefly fell back when a question I'd answered got deleted ;)

hichris123

Heh, hope that doesn't happen. :P

Dukeling

@hichris123 Sort of makes sense actually, but really the original poster should've linked to the post / comment or user (so we're not like "who in the world is 'Atigar'?"), but definitely too minor (anyway, question should be closed)

hichris123

@Dukeling Me would close it, but I'm a new 2Ker (Yay!).

Joe

You can always flag to close.

hichris123

16:25

You're right, this question should be closed, as it's the recommend an off-site resource.

Joe

It's effectively a close vote

iirc doesn't even go to mods

hichris123

Yep, or 10kers

Joe

sends it into the close pool

no, 3kers

hichris123

@Joe 626 deemed helpful

Joe

or are you saying 'doesn't go to 10kers'

hichris123

16:26

^ This

Joe

626 helpful edits?

or flags

hichris123

@Joe No, helpful close flags.

Joe

lol, that's rather a lot

of flags

Undo

@Joe @hichris123 and I have... a secret :P

hichris123

@Undo That's only CV flags.

Undo

16:27

@hichris123 Oh?

hichris123

600 more of those type.

Undo

Wow

I never cast that many close flags :P

hichris123

Well, I just get bored and have to use my 100 flags/day for something, right?

Undo

How...

hichris123

@Undo Where?

Joe

16:29

is that another of the buggy delete-delete-delete

like the one that had 20 deletes

Undo

@hichris123 Here

hichris123

@Joe Trying to find that one.

jadarnel27

He probably cast one delete vote before becoming a mod. And then deleted it outright as a mod.

Undo

@jadarnel27 Oh. That deletionist monster!

Oded

Brown

That is all.

Joe

16:32

Both delete votes were at the same time, though, weren't they?

jadarnel27

Well...he is a moderator. You know how I feel about their type, @Undo.

Joe

or, perhaps not

Undo

@Joe No way for mere mortals to tell

jadarnel27

@Oded Hey there! Long time no chat. Back from a vacation?

Undo

@jadarnel27 He already left :P

jadarnel27

16:33

Hmmm. Chumptastic.

hichris123

Someone's going on a remove all the DOS from questions that aren't about DOS spree.

jadarnel27

At least he said "brown" before he left.

hichris123

@Oded You came back?

Undo

Yay @Oded came back!

Oded

Got pinged...

Undo

16:33

Hehe

Joe

@Undo Delete votes aren't in data.se?

jadarnel27

My @-ping brings all the devs to the yard.

Oded

@jadarnel27 took some time off between Xmas and New Year, but other than that working.

Undo

@Joe IIRC nope

Oded

Doing some stuff with the SE OpenId and the login pages. Can't tell you how much I am learning to dislike OpenId.

Undo

16:35

OpenID is great for users!

jadarnel27

@Oded Ah, so you've just been busy doing Actual Work™. Good for you!

Undo

@Oded Are you refactoring handleSuccess?

Oded

@Undo refactoring... HandleSuccess...

cannot... compute...

Undo

rofl

hichris123

Not logical.

jadarnel27

16:36

I have never dealt with it, so I can't imagine how frustrating or not frustrating it might be =)

Oded

I did have to touch it though. 7 years of bad luck, unless someone else does.

jadarnel27

Though I guess if it were easy, everyone would do it.

Shoot me some login credentials, @Oded. I'd be glad to remedy your bad luck =)

3

Undo

If it were easy, someone would have already done it :P

hichris123

@jadarnel27 Then you can do all sorts of stuff, like reak havok on dev.SO, etc.

jadarnel27

Oh no, I'm not the kind of guy that would wreak havoc on anything.

4

Oded

16:41

@jadarnel27 I would, but I can't see your application in FogBugz.

hichris123

Is it just me or are there way too many audits on the Edits review queue?

Undo

@hichris123 How many?

Oded

Havoc is not brown

hichris123

@Undo Me just got like 3 in the past while, but I skipped quite a few.

Undo

It usually hovers around 5-10, but sometimes you can review 20 in one go just because of the shear volume of suggestions coming in.

jadarnel27

16:42

@Oded It's in the pile, trust me.

(okay, is this joke done now?)

Undo

No!

Oded

Well, see y'all later - end of day here for me. Have a great weekend people of the Tavern

jadarnel27

You too, man!

Setting up a WordPress installation on a subdomain of another WordPress installation is not as easy as it sounds.

Well, the actual setting up is not that hard. Getting the rewrite rules to work right was the real problem.

The fact that I never work with WordPress was probably the bigger stumbling block, though.

Tim Stone

I know I guy who knows a guy who happens to be me that probably could have helped.

hichris123

Wow, it's easy to max on suggested edits.

jadarnel27

16:57

Yeah, I thought about bugging you about it =P What with your SO tags and all, @TimStone.

I worked it out though. Besides that, it's WordPress installed on Windows. So web.config rewrite rules, rather than .htaccess.

I don't know if they're super different, but.

Tim Stone

shudders

jadarnel27

That bad, eh?

Tim Stone

Just the thought of WordPress on Windows.

Rebecca Chernoff

ha ha

jadarnel27

Just imagine if it were WordPress on Windows on a GoDaddy hosting account.

Tim Stone

17:02

It's so bad that @RebeccaChernoff appeared to laugh at your situation. :O

jadarnel27

Note: if you imagine that, you are just thinking about reality.

Joe

lol

jadarnel27

I'm hurt by Rebecca's laughter. Hurt, I say.

Manishearth

@Duncan now yes

jadarnel27

And Joe's, for that matter.

Rebecca Chernoff

17:06

I was only laughing so the nightmare memories didn't make me cry (;

jadarnel27

Ah, that makes more sense. So you've experienced this fun.

Rebecca Chernoff

17:34

@jadarnel27 "fun"

Undo

I found a bug with backward smiley faces!

Joe

):

Undo

There's no equivalent of :D - it comes out as D:, which has a slightly different appearance.

hichris123

@Undo Did you ever accept my bug-report?

status-repo

Undo

Ooooh!!

I wondered what you kept referring to!

hichris123

17:41

14 hours ago, by hichris123

Also, bug report: it's a histogram so the bars should be together and should Aldo say the limits, like 20-29.

Undo

Sure. Fixed in the next build.

:P

hichris123

status-im-not-sure-if-it-was-completed

Undo

status-too-late-to-fix

hichris123

status-sadface

Undo

(:

gnat

17:43

10

Q: Deleted question deleted 'twice' by same user

See the following question: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/9545/who-in-the-software-world-do-you-admire-the-most It was recently deleted, but it somehow looks like it was deleted by the same mod twice.

bug deleted-questions

hichris123

Why are you experimenting with the backwords expressions?

Undo

Current status: trying to open a 350MiB SQL file in a text editor

hichris123

This one's better

Undo

@hichris123 Because @RebeccaChernoff is here!

hichris123

10

Q: Moderator name appears twice on deleted post

I just saw a post (deleted) Crop portion of string with PHP [closed] which was deleted by Gordon♦ but is shown as: deleted by Charles, Gordon♦, Gordon♦ 1 min ago How is it that one person (whether a mod or not) can vote twice on the same post?

bug status-completed deleted-questions

gnat

17:44

hichris123

@Undo I don't know Rebecca; haven't been here long enough.

Undo

@hichris123 rchern used to be a CM famous for backward smiley faces.

hichris123

Ah.

Joe

q:

is basically :D backwards

in this font, at least

:p in this font doesn't look like a tongue, compared to :P at least

hichris123

I can VTC questions when I'm not at 3K from the Low Quality Posts queue? Neat.

Undo

17:53

@hichris you can 'reccomend closure'. I don't think that's the same as voting, but it does do something

hichris123

@Undo Look here: stackoverflow.com/review/low-quality-posts/3779236#./…

Rebecca Chernoff

@Undo (:

hichris123

It just says "Close".

Joe

Presumably it is flagging to close.

Rebecca Chernoff

although, I don't need to be here for you to use "proper" smileys! (;

qwertynl

17:54

I never knew you could do this. Odd.

Undo

@hichris123 Does the button in the dialog say 'vote to close'?

hichris123

@Joe is right. It's flagging it. Dumb me.

jadarnel27

18:22

I sometimes avoid voting to close questions outside the close vote review queue because I don't want them to get added to the queue.

hichris123

@jadarnel27 Then someone else will close them, and it'll get added to the queue.

Joe

Size of close queue shouldn't be a factor in deciding to close or not close a question

either it should be closed, or it shouldn't

hichris123

Just gimme a diamond, and I'll go through every question in the CV queue. :P

jadarnel27

"Shouldn't be a factor" and "isn't a factor" are two very different things, @Joe.

I'm not saying it's right, I'm just saying it does, in practice, affect my voting behavior sometimes.

Joe

lol

Fair enough

Undo

18:35

He stopped making sense right here:

> Google chrome emulator for apple Iphones.

jadarnel27

Yeah, I don't know what that means.

I have clarified the question (hopefully).

Undo

19:17

@hichris123 The close queue is really tiring, actually. It's hard to explain, but you get fatigued by it really easily.

(which is the reason it's sooooo big)

rene

@Undo is your observation also true if you filter on a tag and specific close reason?

Undo

@rene I always do that. It makes it a bit easier, but not by much.

rene

Hmm, ok I had the same feeling initially but since I filter on C# I find it rather easy going.

hichris123

@Undo Meh, I have time, I'll burn though all 100K in no time. :P

jadarnel27

I filter on asp.net, and I think every audit I've gotten has been a C (of maybe C++) question.

rene

19:26

yeah that is another plus @jadarnel27

in SO Close Vote Reviewers on Stack Overflow Chat, Dec 31 '13 at 19:39, by rene

I passed all my audits, even the python one...

jadarnel27

Haha, nice @rene.

Laszlo Papp

19:46

hmm, I just faced this without any failure "
Review
You have failed too many recent review audits – looks like you might need a break. Come back in 7 days to continue reviewing."

Was I put on that explicitly for some non-audit bad review or what happened?

rene

I'veseen some else here today hitting the same ban

Laszlo Papp

At least, I do not recall any failed audit. Perhaps I rejected too many suggested edits and there is some quota triggering a ban over a certain percentage? :D Strictly speaking, I have not even done suggested edit reviews today except one.

OK, never mind, I will contact the Stack Overflow Team.

Joe

@Undo I would say that close queue is the most complicated one - most thinking involved. Most other things it's just 'yes/no', or at least for LQ/etc. there are few of them at any one time. Close there are lots of, and you have to make multiple complicated decisions at one time.

Hence fatiguing.

Laszlo Papp

@animuson: are you around? Do you know anything about this ban?

rene

20:03

@LaszloPapp Got it meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/215671/…

especially meta.stackoverflow.com/a/215674/158100 answer from Bill the Lizard

@LaszloPapp Judging from your 'I rejected too many suggested edits ` I guess the robo-reviewers bite back

Joe

20:23

What's the usual rule on excel questions?

ie, if someone asks for a formula (not VB) to do something

is that SO or SU?

Jan Dvorak

@Joe if it's formula writing, I'd say it's on-topic on both

if it's macro writing, SO

Undo

Oh god, what have I done?

sudo: command not found

Jan Dvorak

if it's "what is a contingency table", most likely stats.se

@Undo 8-)

Undo

Whew

alias sudo='sudo'

fixed it

rene

I wonder who was so proud earlier today...

5 hours ago, by Undo

Doesn't it feel great to implement a backup system and have it save your bacon five days later?

Joe

20:33

sudo Get me a coke zero

coke zero: command not found

:(

random

@Joe Worksheet formulae belong on Super User. Macros are case by case.

Joe

Is that rule explicitly stated anywhere?

(given two of you just disagreed...)

That's what I had thought

as well

random

Would you say a worksheet formula is programming or using a spreadsheet's inherent function?

Jan Dvorak

@random sometimes it's more of the former

rene

I didn't want to interfer but I also tend to send formula to SU and only vba bashing on SO

Joe

20:35

@random I agree completely with you, but

why is there worksheet-function

?

Jan Dvorak

@Joe existence of a tag merely means that some 1k5 user thought it was a useful tag

random

Because plenty of users will just post on SO because they only have that site loaded up

rene

@Joe from the wiki Worksheet functions may be used in vba as well, returning output to a VBA function.

If you are asking about a formula you've written that doesn't return the result you expect, use the excel-formula tag.

You could say that worksheet-function is on topic on SO buf if tagged excel-formula it is an candiate for SU. But it is a grey area...

Joe

Just seems to me the tag wiki should be updated

with whatever the actual rule should be

random

@Joe There are 600 more questions on SU with that tag if you wanted to base it on numbers

Joe

20:42

again, I don't disagree with what you're saying

just that it's not clear

and tag wiki seems like a good place to have that clearly stated :)

random

> Questions about using in-cell functions/formulas in spreadsheet software. - Super User

rene

I've an pending edit on worksheet-function edited that in...

random

If =SUM(H5:J32) is considered programming then no wonder the state of it all

Jan Dvorak

You have far worse in the regex tag

rene

And an pending edit on excel-formula as well

@random Isn't programming just Input -> Process -> Output ? That function SUM it all up.

random

20:53

Depends on what the question is. It's like if you're asking about how to set an automatically generated TOC in Word, it's going to be on Super User. But if it's about the underlying codebase that writes that generator, then it's on Stack Overflow. In both cases they'll be both asked on Stack Overflow because Google pointed them to the Ask Question page.

Laszlo Papp

@rene: hmm, that would be strange. Hope a moderator will be able to clarify.

random

Approving/rejecting suggested edits isn't all about making sure you pass the audits. It's also about what real edits you actually let through.

3

Laszlo Papp

@random: tell that to the robo reviewers.

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