@user1306322 beep

question and this may sound dumb and speak to my inexperience but can i view my own stars in chat

like the posts i've starred

nevermind i got it

@JourneymanGeek Spam account: meta.stackexchange.com/users/687998/ketovatrpilsa

@JourneymanGeek in the light of your last edit ("served to host combative and hurtful words to attack Stack employees..."), could you please take a look at recent removal of this post? When I see them side by side an impression is that posting opinions on a particular matter is allowed only to one side of debate but other side is punished for presenting their views?

@gnat well my option against the edit on the SE post is the company is responsible for their own communications

And that's not much of an answer. It was flag deleted. Apples and durians

this seems a sufficiently articulate and much more powerful counterpoint

→ 33 messages moved to Chimney

@gnat Irrespective of other actions that SE mods may or may not have taken, which I don't want to defend, I do not believe there is any cause for editing out that sentence from Juan's answer. First, because it is what is being sold to us as the justification for having to unfeature moderator resignation posts. Juan has a right to provide whatever justification(s) he wants, regardless of whether or not they are based in fact, and certainly regardless of whether or not you agree with them.

The signals for disagreement are, as always, the downvote button and the "post your answer" button.

Second, removing that sentence strips away all context from the existing answers, the people who, like myself, have already used the "post your answer" button.

@CodyGray you have enough rep at MSE to click the link in my prior message and see how expressing disagreement in an answer ended

Grabs the popcorn ...

You are keeping it within arm's reach these days, right, @rene?

@CodyGray more likely a giant tub of it, with one of those inflatable chairs in it

@gnat You're probably smart enough to read the comments under that thing and draw a better conclusion ;)

Like scrooge mcduck, only with popcorn

I don't think comments getting posted under an answer is justification for that answer being removed. But, I also think that this is not an answer to the question that was asked, and doesn't actually dispute the announced "policy". It is, itself, merely a comment, and there are plenty of other questions on MSE right now that reject the framing game that is being played against us right now.

@CodyGray Well, you're on the right track with it being not an answer ;) Combine it with the comments and you can see what it really was ;)

I don't know what comments you're referring to, really.

The guy got baited into talking about specific people.

He shouldn't have, and those comments are inappropriate, but that doesn't invalidate the entire answer.

@CodyGray The answer was a thinly veiled attempt at protesting/ranting about an earlier suspension. ;)

Hmm, okay.

The very last remaining visible comment, I suppose.

Yep

I don't know if that's a completely fair interpretation. I prefer to evaluate answers based solely on what is contained in the post itself. I don't think what exists in the answer itself is a protest or rant.

Perhaps I am being too charitable and myself bringing too much context to bear on the evaluation of the answer text.

@CodyGray Oh, but I do too... we saw it even before the comment turned up.

I'm just pointing people towards the comments because well... That's where they can see it too and I shouldn't be discussing suspensions actually.

Bad me.

Next topic, please?

Really? That kind of strains credibility for me.

@CodyGray You get a knack for it, eventually. ;)

The fact that the user is suspended is public.

Yeah, I should moderate a site for a while....maybe I'd learn how it's done.

@CodyGray Don't tell me there's no users on SO/MSO that I could run into and think they're smelling perfectly peachy... yet you know there's more going on.

I'm sure there are, but that goes back to evaluating the content of the answer itself, not holding people's history against them.

True. Like I said though... the answer speaks a thousand words.

The claim that is made in that answer is nothing more than what dozens of us have said after reading, for example, Shog's Twitter feed.

Nah, that's not true.

hm

@CodyGray only people with telepathic skills get chosen to moderate MSE

That explains the lack of elections ;)

@AndrasDeak Right now, I wish it wasn't just telepathy, but also some form of foresight. And that I could say 'no' better.

I'm the son of Bar Glo?

Anyway, nuked. ;)

@ShadowTheBurningWizard you wish ;)

Is Mr. Glo glowing?

!!/glow

@ShadowTheBurningWizard No such command 'glow'.

:(

Sorry about the pin overload folks. Tried to clean up dupes, but these are "interesting" times :/

@Tinkeringbell it probably would be better to let another moderator handle this. I see your own answer near to one I asked about and it's self-deleted on a negative score at about the same time (looks less than 15 minutes apart per timeline). Because of that one may think that your judgement there could be obscured by emotions about your answer

@gnat Meh. My reason for deleting it is clearly in the comments underneath my answer. Suggesting that there's a different one or that I apparently can't keep my emotion in check is also not very appreciated.

We work in teams on the rest, so 'a different moderator' has also handled that one.

These days, we run almost every decision past each other... precisely because of remarks like that. Sorry, but the underlying assumption there is just not true.

What "teams" ? I thought it was just the two of you and Chris on MSE

@AndrasDeak Yeah, we work in moderator teams, so there's more than 1 person? I have a 'team' here, with Geek and Chris, and the occasional CM helping out on the harder stuff... and I'm also part of a different team on IPS?

Ah. I thought it was teams plural within MSE.

Oh, sorry.. no... that was a general 'moderators work in teams' remark ;)

@JourneymanGeek I think it's fewer pins that people would mind, not more

@AndrasDeak naw. Just the three of us. Though in SU we often bounce stuff off each other or go 'so I did a thing' too

And I have often gone 'can someone review this post/comment' in lieu of a unilateral flag. Every effective moderation effort needs a team

So I've a list of stuff to sort out today

except some if it requires the wife to tend an animal while i'm sorting it

so I'm stuck waiting

Oo

Shoot, you could have a good time in Vegas with all that 🤣🤣🤣

@Tinkeringbell I think posting your reason for deletion in comments is suboptimal: I for one did not notice it until you mentioned. Consider making it into an edit to avoid confusing readers (you can see example of such an edit in my old self-deleted post)

Never mind. Thought I still disagree. It's her choice

I wrote a thing.

yay, more things.

sigh. Whatever. I get you're frustrated. We all are.

I just wish people didn't need to write things.

You have my +1, fwiw.

@Tinkeringbell That wasn't posted for need. I am hoping it will be heard and it's the only way forward I can see. I am trying to get people to stop shouting into the wind, there's no point. The only thing MSE can be useful for is for us to communicate with us, not with the company. We can still ask about how the sites work, but anything else is pointless.

Yeah, so it's too strange to wish it wasn't needed to write that down?

sad times

We all wish it wasn't needed.

@terdon or things go horribly wrong again and they suddenly need the community

twitter.com/icatija/status/1218394829945819136?s=21

poor Cat... this must be so horrible for her.

I still keep thinking what would have happened if the similar events happened to Wikipedia

wikipedia is nothing like SE

the WMF is a nonprofit with a partially community elected board who is directly and per charter accountable to their communities

in fact, after the fram disaster, the community had sanctioned the WMF by forbidding them from handing out temporary bans.

imagine anything like that here

@Magisch in better times, to an extent the mod council was promised to be like that

This would be like the community here looking at the monica situation and then forbidding SE from demodding people at all

@Magisch well to an extent the process they did was a reaction to that

The process they put out is completly untransparent

But its difficult when the folks advocating and bridging us are gone

if I'm a senior manager at SE i'm still free to go "get rid of that person and never allow them back" and do not have to give any specific reasons

@Magisch i went through that - though admittedly, I kinda probably had zero friction

for uncontroversial resignations that process is little more then window dressing

aka going through the motions

It's basically "we do whatever we like" but now there's an air of process to it.

@Magisch admittedly my faith in it was more when they didn't just throw our CMs out on the curb

true that

even jon's blog post says that management have absolutely no clue what they're doing or what their community is

basically their shocking incompetence drove him to look for a new job and resign

At this point, my biggest hope is the ex SE employees do... something

like make a new SE?

But its going to be pretty tricky to get the right stuff right, without avoiding the same traps

sure

I'd be on board with that

Or find somewhere else

I don't know. I'll let my feet carry me, as they always have :D

Holy.

Moly.

Not exactly the news I wanted to come across when I came back online.

The ship sinks slowly, but it's definitely sinking ...

@Mithical which ones? You were still on when Jon announced his resignation right?

@Magisch no

âh

I was offline most of Friday as well, so even if it was posted on Friday I still missed it.

@djsmiley2kindarkness Now that I won't be interviewing people for Stack Overflow CM anymore, the secret is out. That's my goto "coding" interview question for community management. ;-)

do you ask that just how someone can play devils advocate

@JonEricson So it was nevr serious riht? ;)

omfmg i can't type.

Anyway, I don't think we've ever interacted, but thank you @JonEricson, for all that you've done, and all the best for the future too.

An underappreciated aspect of the job is communicating decisions you don't personally agree with. I don't mean justifying them, which is easy. I mean figuring out how to translate the logic of the decision into terms the community can understand. It's a tricky job that can be made far harder if the decision makers don't understand what you are trying to do.

oh yup

@djsmiley2kindarkness I don't recall interacting with you, which is usually a good sign. ;-)

I often have to explain to users - no, we won't let you run a web server on your laptop and allow the world and the dog to connect to it, no matter how important you think you are.

Wait... so if you remember me, I should be concerned?

I do recall one funny time, in a prior life

when a CTO absolutely insisted we did something like this,and within 20 minutes or so, the site was defaced...

@Mithical Heh. It's a statistical argument.

I sometimes wonder about the presentation of downvotes to upvotes.

@JonEricson I see you're still holding your staff credentials?

@Magisch Wikipedia is somewhat unusual due to just how public stuff is and just how much dirt sufficiently motivated people can dig up. There was an amazing amount of drama offsite and it cast WMF in an extremely negative light.

@Magisch "and forget the blackjack!"

@JonEricson I guess doing the right thing is not necessarily doing the thing that will make other people (or even yourself) feel good in the short term. :-(

@Mithical What

Sheesh, you're giving me a heart attack

WHAT

@It'sOver Jon leaving SE.

Oh, that was like, 24 hours ago.

Yeah, I was offline 24 hours ago :P

Is it telling that I'm expecting something dramatic every time I come online now?

Why does 2020 suck so much q_q

@It'sOver Nah. Is Imgur still unblocked there?

And we're not even a month through yet

@Tinkeringbell i.stack.imgur works, what about it?

@It'sOver Have something to look at ;)

Much better!

I couldn't even finish that Twitter thread @GeorgeStocker

@Tinkeringbell This brings up some interesting questions about the biology of the

DINNER IS ON FIRE BBL

Wooops!

I hope it's not on too much fire :/

@It'sOver Because that it's the continuation of 2019 and not a start over (as some might hoped)

I can tell you right now this year will suck worse then 2019

we kicked off with some next level crap, not just in the SE context but worldwide

I want to think everything's gonna be alright but that looks pretty damn unlikely right now.

Unfortunately I share your pessimism @magisch :-(

@Magisch Inorite, and I'm kinda sorta in the middle of it!

I want a refund

It's like with bounties, no refunds ever.

So is there gonna be a trough every year there's a US election?

And is that a coincidence

The major idiot will win, I am afraid of that :P

@It'sOver I'm annoyed at the state of Florida for making it essentially impossible for me to vote without hopping on a plane.

That sounds like an interesting scenario.

Also, if the guy superman votes for doesn't get elected, what will he do? Food for thought.

Why can't people just Bernie get the job and do . . . old people things in that white house thing.

It looks like a cul de sac in any directions.

I mean old old people stuff, like checker and bingo, not new old people stuff, like babbling on Twitter all the time

CULL DAT SAC!

@Mithical all this voter suppression is planned though

like gerrymandering too

:|

See, I turn 18 this year, which means I'm old enough to vote. I'm a US citizen living abroad. Florida was my last state of residence. However, since I never lived there as an adult, I pretty much have to physically visit to be able to register to vote.

What did that word Magisch used mean again

Oh

That's a nice word to forget tomorrow!

@Mithical dawwww, it's good watching them grow up

Pinches @Mith's cheek

*stares at @It'sOver*

@Tinkeringbell It reminds me of a plunger hat:

Actually this forum wanted my age today and I was gonna type 18. It's been haunting me for several hours that I'm 21 now.

bwahahahaha

@Rob That is a . . . Well I have nothing to say to that.

reminds me of Myrapla

I already have white hair, I don't need this number increasing stuff!

@Magisch Oddish?

that the english name?

I think so, yes :)

Linnaeus is rolling in his grave

I don't think so...

He's rolling in someone else's grave?

That could be illegal

Sometimes... you're just incredibly ... you.

:)

I am offended superficially

imagine having a pet raddish

like your raddish is actually alive and moving

Watering it would be a horrible mess.

Would it be potty trained? :P

why? it'd have a mouth

it can drink from a bowl

Or just sit on it

now I imagine a garden full of moving pet raddishes

@It'sOver why is that? (What was your previous user name? I don’t recognize the avatar)

@GeorgeStocker (M.A.R.)

@Rob I like this one better: images.app.goo.gl/oPehsfRJ4h13jgUc9

This is his previous avatar, notice the resemblance?

@Tinkeringbell Yes, the feet and tips are better.

@It'sOver How did this end up???

@Mithical The bad thing is, as soon as you enter a U.S. territory, you're denied the right to vote until you leave, whereas it's still possible to vote in some way when outside the U.S.

@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog That I haven't heard. What does that mean?

There's no way to vote from within a U.S. territory: absentee ballots can't be sent there.

As long as you're within the sovereign U.S. (50 states and DC), or in a different country, you can still vote. But if you're in a U.S. territory or commonwealth, you can't vote.

Not sure I follow. Why would it be an absentee ballot if I go in person to Florida?

Not necessarily referring to that, but to voting in general

@Mithical Apparently you can register online and send the form in by courier if you don't have a Florida ID.

...my passport expired, I'm not sure I actually have any valid US ID at the moment (aside from maybe my birth certificate which nobody knows where it is) :P

@Mithical There's also this form administered by the federal government which doesn't require a passport number

Also, an expired passport is still often accepted as valid proof of U.S. citizenship

it's gonna be quite a meme if the old gang gets back together and basically recreates the site under a different name, with a hands-off non-profit at the head

@Mithical you might be able to do something through an embassy

and you should be able to fix the ID thing too

@user1306322 That's...gotten a bit more difficult since the embassy was moved to Jerusalem from Tel Aviv

time to build the lego tardis

@user1306322 Maybe. I have to visit the embassy to renew my passport in any case.

@djsmiley2kindarkness I want a picture when it's done

sure

:)

7 bags arugh

Big Lego sets are the best ones ;)

also expensive :(

True

Like most best stuff.

@Tink how did what what?

Oh, it was actually delicious

sneak peek

But I guess The Tavern doesn't like a single ingredient in a single dish I'm ever having, so

That looks like a . . . Jet launchpad?

I'm usually terrible at this stuff. People come over to me with this project they're proud of, and I'm like "it's cheetos with mustard . . . No wait it's pepperoni, no wait it's a saucer"

I'm ELON MUSK BABY!

Hi Elon Musk Baby

Oy, he's pooping rocket ideas

I just Googled Elon Musk Baby and wasn't disappointed

lol

Hah, realised a Peice you can't even see is the wrong colour

fixerd it hot :D

I just facepalmed at this and I shouldn't suffer it alone

@It'sOver shouldn't the "raptor" on the right cancel?

raptors are a unit man.

pure unit.

do not mess.

In dy/dx the d's don't 'cancel'

Raptor is a math operator that allows dinosaurs to open doors

@It'sOver well, usually dy/dx isn't a fraction to begin with, and it certainly is not the same as d (y/x) ;-)

Actually I found the image amusing. Thanks for posting it.

@Mithical *looks around shiftily*

@ArtOfCode who are you again

@Mithical I was hoping you'd tell me

I seem to have forgotten

> "...how dreary to be someone, all public like a frog..."

@ArtOfCode I haven't seen you in a while

how's it going

that peice of swapped? of the wrong colour

there were two peices

i swapped the wrong one ¬_¬

As I don't want a bicoloured dalek, i've gotta rework it again lololol

*blinks*

grrr cxan't get these two peices off

I'm expecting it to be 2/100

@HeyJude Simply visiting the homepage isn't enough to count as a "visit". You need to browse some other pages.

Clicking the day counter will show a calendar, and show days on which a "visit" was actually registered with green highlight.

So, just browse through a couple pages, then check the calendar to see if today's UTC date is marked green

it helps if you downvote a few terrible questions on the front page

@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog, thanks, I wasn't at all aware to that. Where's the calendar, though? the day counter is not clickable

oops, nope

are you on mobile?

desktop

hmm

@HeyJude To find out what the Stack Overflow UTC time is click on the Achievements Notification, that works on many but not all Stack Exchange sites. Once you are past 00:00 it's the next day, then there is a further delay for a Script to run. The "day" will click over quickly while the awarding of the Fanatic Badge, after you reach 100, can take hours; very rarely a day or two if the number of processes to be ran on the Script's time allotment is too big for one day.

SE is even more detached from reality than I thought if "Stack Overflow UTC" is a thing

The Server's time can be off, it has been off by a couple of minutes before (a few weeks ago). It matters what time the Server has for determining the start of the next day. Normally the time is precisely synchronized, rarely it isn't. That's no different from anywhere else.

Annnnnnnnd done

@djsmiley2kindarkness doesn't seem too big; I hope it's larger on the inside

"boost"

Yeah, big fat fp

I don't think I can feedback smokey though

Knew it!

Privileges are room-based, so even if you have privs elsewhere you don't necessarily have them here

@AndrasDeak >_>

@Mithical careful with that, you might have to pay a fine if you're X years too late to renew it, and the cost of the fine only grows with years

hmm... but actually idk if you have to have an active ID as a US citizen, this might be the case with EU citizens only

@Rob Thanks. The most wanted thing for me now is to know where's that calendar mentioned above.

just have at least one non-expired ID :p

@user1306322 I've never heard anything about that so sounds like a EU thing