02:00 - 19:0019:00 - 00:00

2:00 AM
There are still plans to allow a digital in-profile opt-out for the arbitration clause, right? Would it be a foolish idea for me to wait until that has been implemented so I can opt out of it in the same way I disabled "personalization"?

Yes
No? It's just an email

I don't have my email password anymore lol
I'd have to set a new one and I'm lazy.

@πάνταῥεῖ Haha what, "vampire" is a bad word now?

"help vampire" and "rep whore" are always bad words, no matter how we love it...

2:06 AM
Sure, as many others are.

O_o
Well I for sure am not falling into political correctness like that. I am a proud rep whore (even if it's not entirely something to be proud of) and a slayer of help vampires.

It even spawned this question
68

This is a frequently thrown-around term on Internet forums in general and Stack Exchange specifically. Although it conveys a lot of meaning, I'd much prefer a phrase with a less offensive origin. Urban Dictionary defines a "rep-whore" as: A person who is obsessed with their status on an inte...

Wait. Since when can't we say HV?

Also, "help vampire" and "rep whore" are two words :P

O_o

2:08 AM
@hey Well I can understand that people think "whore" might be referring to sex workers, but the term itself is gender-neutral and doesn't have to be an insult (it all depends on how you use it).
But "vampire"?

@JourneymanGeek Someone said the other day... somewhere... that they wanted to ban both words when they banned RW...

@forest I'm actually cool with it, but certainly not everyone

@Catija anyone who matters?

New blog post incoming: How to Make Stack Overflow Welcoming to Women, Minorities, and the Undead.

2:10 AM
like, how many percentages "vampire" is used as a positive word...

Well obviously it's not supposed to be a positive word.

Cause if we're worried over words rather than how people behave in general...
2

But it's better than "worthless leech", and much better than "Indians".

@JourneymanGeek Jay... probably matters.
:D

Jay is a banned word.

2:11 AM
"banned word" is a pair of banned words.

As well as we can't say A***l innocently anymore.

^ that reminded me of a social game I played that banned "bug" and "buggy"

I don't even know what that refers to.

May

They are not the undead. They merely have a post life crisis

2:15 AM
Close them with crosses...

They are "living impaired".

Good N8

Now I'm feeling lost with the conversation, but it's probably better to leave it like that ._.

@forest that was the term I was trying to remember

I like post life crisis better :P

3:07 AM
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog You around?
After some clarification, I've got the wrong duplicate here but I have a better one if someone wants to propose it:
Considering the update to the question, the appropriate duplicate is: meta.stackexchange.com/questions/145994/…Catija 1 min ago

3:51 AM
@Catija I already voted to close as unclear
Just do it my way:

3 hours later…
6:35 AM
Daily pet:

6:49 AM
Based on experiment experience, one could edited 3 posts almost simultaneously before tripping a 5-second cooldown?

7:18 AM
@hey Shtap with the cats - just can it :)

8:03 AM
@forest Tim seems to imply the plans are there, given his footnote on the screenshot in this post meta.stackexchange.com/questions/310321/… . I'm also playing the waiting game, partially because of the lack of non-repudiation (which you mentioned in an answer), partially because a better option is likely to be implemented, rendering the email obsolete.

opt out by any means...

@forest I was going to wait out this week and see what happens, but seeing as the current implementation of the Tos seems to contradict many points of the original announcements Tim made I am already assuming that option has been silently dropped (or will be rolled out far after the 30 day window expired). As now, I am still thinking about it ... I will be sincere, deleting the account is an option I am considering.

... now I really feel that SE will lost half of its population due to Infin[redacted] new ToS

no. That is not what I said.
Or at least, that is not my belief.
In my humble opinion if "SE will lost half of its population" it will be due to how they managed the new ToS transition even before the actual ToS contents.

8:18 AM
well, I also counted the pruning of "non-meaningful activity" users...

I wonder, am I the only one who don't really care about and not really bothered by this whole GDPR stuff?

I said it before and I will say it again now, @jmbpiano. I have seen some comments saying that it is lame that so many got angry because of the arbitration clause. To those I should say that as now I am far more annoyed by the way all of the new ToS transition is being handled than by its actual contents. — SPArchaeologist 23 mins ago

@ShadowWizard Note that the GDPR is mostly unrelated with the arbitration clause, other than that some parts of the arbitration clause seem to conflict with the GDPR and that SE adds an arbitration clause around the same time as the GDPR comes in effect.

@Derpy that's... not answering my question... or is it? :/
You mean that unlike me, you're annoyed by this whole thing?
@hey exactly
@Discretelizard wait... what exactly is this "arbitration clause"?? Thought it's part of the GDPR, never bothered looking into it.

8:27 AM
@ShadowWizard somehow it is. I meant that even if I am somehow "bothered by this whole GDPR stuff" that is not even the point now. I am far more "bothered" by how this is being handled.

@Derpy technically?

yep, @sumelic, most of us probably know that. The problem is that most of us also seem to agree that this had to be "looked into" BEFORE it went live. — SPArchaeologist 13 mins ago

@ShadowWizard it's something that you can opt out from, unlike GDPR

@Pavel Typically it means by using the site you agree that, for any legal action or complaint you may file with the court system, you will handle it via an arbiter decided upon by the defendant rather than going to court. Trying to go to court anyway will typically get your case thrown out if you have agreed to arbitration. It's considered a bad practice, ethically (and some argue that it is not legal), but it's still very popular because it saves a LOT of time and money for companies that deal with legal action a lot. — TylerH May 2 at 21:13

@ShadowWizard "YOU AGREE THAT YOU WAIVE YOUR ABILITY TO SUE US OR TAKE PART IN ANY CLASS ACTION" mostly (all caps because they seem to like it a lot...)

8:30 AM
@ShadowWizard Above comment explains the basics.

@Discretelizard you forgot the .ToUppercase() call

@Derpy IANAL.
That should be sufficient

So in plain words it means we agree to never sue SE for privacy issues it might have?

jokes aside, that would be a little oversimplified. Read the section about mandatory arbitration in the ToS.
It also means that any legal dispute you may have would not be handled by an actual judge but by a private company chosen and paid by SE (again, oversimplifying to get you to the point. Please, read the actual ToS)
The above point alone should explain why most feel like this in general is a unethical and somehow shady tactic.

@ShadowWizard Sort of, you agree that all legal conflicts will be handled by the arbitration court specified in the ToS. This means that in particular, class action suits aren't possible. So, if e.g. a mass data leak is caused by SE, making a single case with a large number of users who are damaged as a result will be prevented by the arbitration process.

8:39 AM
Can't see any reason to delve into this to be honest.
Not going to sue SE, not going to dig for cookies or stuff about me they might share.

and that's the line between those who care (of suing) and those who don't...

Anyway, a lot of users don't really like this clause and hence want to opt-out of it. This has no disadvantage (in theory): opting out gives you the option of using arbitration instead of being forced.

and there start the mess.
first you had to send a snail mail. Then you had the option to mail Team(at)stackexchange... until the ToS changed the address to legal(at). Tim quickly confirm that that is the new address to use... only to have Nick rectify that a day later and point out that the old one is the real one. They mention a form based opt out option, but it is unclear if they will be able to provide it anytime soon (or if it is even being considered). Some say that the opt out mail has only to reference your account, the ToS say you need to disclose your name. And so on.
I am felling sad for Tim, Nick and the others.
they are probably going to be the mudguards in all this... and they probably don't deserve that.
oh well, rant of the day done.
Back to lurking in the RPG room I am.

9:08 AM
@Derpy I think the primary contention is that they didn't anticipate such blowback to the arbitration clause
And are now scrambling to try and make something work to placate the legions of users that are upset

\0 @Magisch ;)

I can ping @Magisch again \o/

@Magisch In which case it's bad time to increase the amount of ads.

@JohnDvorak You don't know their financials. They might not have a choice

9:12 AM
Like they didn't have a choice but to add an arbitration clause to their TOS

@JohnDvorak Do you think anyone over there is salivating over more ads or forced arbitration?
I think these are business necessities

Depends: actual developers or you include also the other departments?
Because that is also one of the other issues I have with this. The actual devs are the one who now have to defend this.

I'm pretty sure the people we interact with don't like this a lot more then we do, but they also don't have a choice

@Magisch no, I accept the explanation that they "had to".

On a side note of this I still find the "sponsoring that fine manual" title really adorable
idk why it just feels nice to read

9:18 AM
@Magisch good to be able to ping ya again

... I wasn't unpingable before
just harder to ping :p

@Magisch STFM!

9:34 AM
@SmokeDetector FR: only show "answer" box on the last page when it's over 30 answers...

Welcome back @Magi!
How you feel to be yourself again?
Wonder if @Yve will also be back at some point.... and @Jeremy...

and @Telkitty... and @bro @Sally @soup @NormalHuman...

I fear that the kitty is lost...

@Tel is lost cause, I'm afraid. Looks like she won't be back....

deleted account, remember?

9:43 AM
@Norm is also lost cause, he won't get back to his original (?) name.... but he's here, no? Hmm.... wait....
huh.... We lost him too???
Why did he delete his account this time?

no one knows, as usual

@Derpy new account can be created and same name chosen, deleted account doesn't mean much... only the intentions of the person behind it.

I noticed he was still there on some meta sites

He's arround
I think he's on the assembly
Also, with the drama around the Arbitration clause and other legal things...
CMs probably don't have a first hand understanding of the legal issues. Legal dosen't have a first hand understanding of the community, even folks who're familiar with the community might have been surprised by aspects of things.
(apologies to any CMs who are lawyers by trade ;) )

10:09 AM
checking the account, he was last seen on Anime.SE 1 hour ago o_O

Looks like they need to turn on the CJK filters again

@ShadowWizard If she deleted the account instead of just anonymizing it... that is probably a good indicator she doesn't really want to have anything to do with SE anymore

... only on MSE

1 hour later…
11:41 AM
Welcome back @Magisch 😀

43 messages moved to Chimney

@Catija Hey cat
I was here the whole time just in disguise :D

@Magisch are you saying you pulled off a disappearing act!?

@Magisch good disguise 😉

yesterday, by user5389107
you doth qoute my old name

12:08 PM
He was under a box

12:22 PM
Is there an option to tell Windows I don't want to enroll my fingers? Don't tell me to use Ubuntu instead ...

@rene pretty sure you can disable that, it was bugging me to set a pin and I went in and told it to go away

OK

@JourneymanGeek I was in the overful \hbox

a second mail about the ToS update? is this because of my two separate accounts or it is round two?
Text is different.

12:25 PM

Based on the emails I received I have 3 socks ...

flowers wear socks now
what has this world come to

@rene speaking of which, do you need to opt out separately for every account you own? Turns managing sock to improve site quality in another annoyance.
oh.

@Derpy well, I opted out for my main account. I go into arbitration with the others. I like to keep all options open ...

Today is Tiara day.
so...
let's abuse that to my own gain.
here, free (Diamond) Tiara for the room

12:31 PM
What's the "gain" in this?

that I have an excuse to post a pony picture
also, reminder
Tomorrow is Towel Day
please, remember to change the room topic to "MY GOD, IT'S FULL OF STARS AND TOWELS"

@Derpy needs more Hitchhiker's guide jokes, because Mr. Hankey jokes aren't exactly room appropriate

12:57 PM
had to google up this one, but I don't get how South Park is involved in this.

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Manually reported answer: Formatting Sandbox by tripleee on meta.SE

şd tpu

1:19 PM
@TimPost regardless of how bad your GDPR day might be going at least you're not in gdprhallofshame.com

That site won't load for me

@Magisch give it time it got posted to hacker news and is under load

Yeah, it's got the cloud flare sad face

Tim, can you disclose who came up with the adorable title for that ad post?
It's an amazing title :3

some companies (Instapaper) are actively engaging on the issue
but I suspect they won't be the only ones temporarily blocking europe starting today

1:57 PM
shall we send in a picture of our arbitration clause and links to the related meta posts? -_-'
at least we are not alone

2:11 PM
@Derpy StackExchange is still better prepared than some did you see the lightbulb company?

I should hire myself out by the hour .. "Blocked the EU and need a punching bag to satisfy the angry mob for a few days? My rates start at \$1500 / hourly."

@TimPost nah just sell them stackoverflow teams that you'll moderate that they can use as a meta to talk to their customers

Apr 25 at 20:07, by user315433
> GDPR meeting: "No Nick, we can't just ban all the European IPs" https://pic.twitter.com/pnI4lAZxjX -- Nick Craver at 6:00 PM - 11 Apr 2018

2:35 PM
@TimPost You're doing fine though, considering how much vitriol you've absorbed these last days
How do you manage to not go insane?
You seem to be a magnet for people to air their grievances towards

twitter suggests vast amounts of caffeine.

That's great, because I've just dumped a can of "ice coffee" into me and I'm about to dump another.

@JourneymanGeek or the next tweet post will be a picture of him wearing a yellow suit, carrying a katana and with a final message "goodbye, I have to go to meet my boss now"

is it odd that the mental image of me includes the mug and the hat?

sorry, i'm imagining yellow duck suit instead.

2:47 PM
that would be infinite

2:58 PM
@Derpy Now I'm imagining them as a member of a song and dance team called the 'gemtones'

being an intentional typo for gemstones?

@Mgetz so, Shog is Garnet, balpha is Amethyst and Grace would be Pearl?

@JohnDvorak Hadn't thought of that, just band names of that sort tend to follow that pattern
@Derpy No idea

We already have beetles and monkees
gemtones is brilliant

influenced by the "ponytones" dare I say?

3:04 PM
@Derpy only after the fact

3:26 PM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Potentially bad keyword in answer, username similar to website in answer: Question in reading the Quran and tajweed for beginner by quranteaching on islam.SE

14

Some guidelines I'd love to see follow below. I know I'm guilty for some of them too, when I'm in a hurry, but maybe we can call people out for it when we see it. I don't think we can get them implemented in code, but we could call people out for not following: If you close vote a question fr...

this is an... interesting moderator answer
is travel.se very anti-downvote/close vote?

Wow. That's somewhat surprising to me.

i can't downvote that enough

they want happy users, literally. they also like trivia questions. (whether it's correlated or not, I don't know)

Oh, goodie... always fun to see your site's comment policy misrepresented and dragged through the mud.

3:37 PM
If it works for them more power to them, but 9/10 instances of "Downvoter, why u downvote" never ends well or is just never answered
The traffic to the site probably makes a huge difference as well, smaller communities can adopt these trends, but it doesn't scale

@SterlingArcher sit back, relax, and see how that works out for them

So, the irony for me was that I'd just read this on MSO:
1

I got this question on the review queues. I can clearly see that the question should be closed, but... We've just been told that we should be nicer to new users. This post was by a newb with a rep of 1 -- a new user. I don't want to close salvageable posts by new community members. I'd rather ju...

@Bart oh ill probably never visit that site again (not related to the question)

@SterlingArcher That's either sarcasm or in need of CM intervention

I don't see how it could be sarcasm.

3:45 PM
@Magisch nope, not sarcasm, totally serious just like other answers. <- this is not sarcasm either

How come it needs CM intervention?

It sort of subverts the way the site is supposed to work.
Sites are absolutely allowed to have their own policies about things. And if that's how they want to do things, I guess that's OK... but telling people when to vote or how to vote really... sort of twinges for me.

Go get'm @Bart ...

@Catija well, the answer expresses how it should be, which is opinionated. Is a CM required to tell a mod they can't express opinion?

@SterlingArcher I don't see how Don't dare downvote a post without a comment. Please! Is expressing an opinion. It's a command.

3:53 PM
It's a strong opinion? lol

And shaming people: If you close vote a question from a newbie without a comment, shame on you.

eh, people with diamonds next to their name should be rather clear imo when they're expressing an opinion and not policy.

@rene at the moment I'd better stay away from anything which may cause me to get worked up. I'm not in a great mood :D

Anyway, I don't really care about that meta posts since Mods can't enforce it anyway. (feeling happy finding this closed, -4 question)

@SterlingArcher It directly contradicts network wide policy
Moderators aren't supposed to be able to tell people off for properly using their downvotes and closevotes
Doing that is blatant mod abuse

3:58 PM
That's a bit strong, I think... but I understand where you're coming from.

@Catija Strong? STRONG?!? I demand pitchforks and sharpened sticks and a decently sized attack trout!

Well, some of us are coming from SO where we're used to that strictness~

@Bart either that are take an easier target to bully ;)

Attack trout??? And here I am with only a guppy.

3:59 PM

What a coddinghorror.

Thank you, Porkchat.

(darn, it doesn't include Whack!)

Man, the seafood is great in this tavern.

4:02 PM
You're welcome

I'm not allowed raw seafood right now... can I get something cooked?

Just don't eat rock crabs, they're extremely poisonous and have 2 different types of toxins

4:13 PM
Um

Ewww?

...

2 messages moved to Chimney

4:38 PM
Third time at least he's caught, and still trying to play it innocent.

screenshot for plebs? :(

Seen such cases earlier here.
Trying even to convince us it must have been a .

coincidences, I'm sure

Probably :-D

@Magisch victim of yours?

4:49 PM
victim is probably the wrong word.

@hey nah, I stopped that pursuit a while ago

@πάνταῥεῖ maybe... otherwise I'm thinking of "trophy hunt"...

@hey nvm, it's not that critical for public to know how that tool works...

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Username similar to website in answer: Como fazer um dump de um banco de dados MySQL com PHP? by Startinn on pt.stackoverflow.com

5:16 PM
So fun irregularity that came up elsewhere: If a user no longer uses the email associated to their account here can they file a GDPR complaint if they didn't get any notifications about TOS changes etc?

Good question

I think it's a catch 22 because I don't think you can send them an email to see if their email is live. I think the most you can do is prompt them to update it on the site itself.

@Mgetz deja vu...

If SE has no PII on the user to identify them to notify them ...
then they have no PII on the user
and thus, no obligation

@Magisch I'd say that's up for debate, they have PI definitely

5:20 PM
Is personal information still personal information if you can't associate it with a person?
no

At least those moderator messages appear at your inbox too. I don't know if its the same in the iOS app, though.

@Magisch Stack definitely has IP and username, and I'd argue enough action analytics that it counts as PI
but that's my opinion

IP is only PI if you can associate it with a natural person directly ... as far as I know
still not a lawyer remember

@Magisch The training I got (from a super conservative US multinational so it may be over playing it) was that PII is stuff that on its own can identify the user (email, name, and so forth), PI is anything that in combination can be used to identify the user

And I think in addition to email, SE also needs to send info on ToS change to everyone's inbox, just in case those mobile app users who lost their email...

5:48 PM

@Mgetz they can change their email in the edit profile page, it's trivial.
Also suspension notice should arrive to SE inbox, not only email, so one can't really miss it.
Though not in the app.

@ShadowWizard and yet the user in the image above...

So they must use a browser to see the suspension message.
@Mgetz I'm pretty sure he's well aware of what he has done and trying to move around the suspension by playing innocent.
"Look what they did to me! I didn't do anything! Now lift the wrong suspension plz"

@ShadowWizard I was trying to assume positive intent

@ShadowWizard I believe it happened the same before, also on MSE

6:01 PM
@Mgetz well, I also sometimes, but not in this case.
e.g. the Drupal saga was different.

The JavaScript chat room guy?

I'm not even going to ask what happened there

wha

@ShadowWizard I was afraid that doesn't work in the app.
@hey As you're a committed mobile user, that would be worth a FR (but there's probably one already)

8

When using the web version of Stack Exchange, if a user has reached their account's question limit, (aka: their account has been question banned), they will see an error message before they can type and submit their question. The iOS app should follow this behavior, rather than informing the u...

6:12 PM
@Mgetz Nah, I meant the simple inbox notifications.

12

The SE app currently only shows some inbox items: Answers Comments Chats When I see those I assume I'm all caught up, but it turns out there are more on the web which aren't displayed in the app: Bounty expiration Elections Edits on your own posts Maybe others? I was about to tag this bug...

^ That

I added my two cents that I think it is a bug if it's a ban notification they would have received from the website

6:34 PM
Righteous yes!

6:50 PM
@rene you're so picky :P

The trick is to not use the iOS app

I like the iOS app.

So if you can bear with the deficiencies it's fine IMO.

@πάνταῥεῖ not really app fault, API returns only "ordinary" inbox notifications.

02:00 - 19:0019:00 - 00:00