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1:44 AM
Q: What Skills do I need to get an Entry Level Job as a Developer?

Rusty PowersI am still struggling to understand what are the right skills need to be a professional developer. What is a good roadmap for growth from 0 skill, to 100% of what is needed to be an entry level developer?

Skill #1: recognizing the purpose of text areas.
1:56 AM
It doesn't take much apparently, the bank I use had problem with their system and I am missing a couple of thousand dollars because of it. It's the 4th day that I am aware and they are still having problem. They even told me that they don't know when their IT system is going to be fixed
2:17 AM
Android Enthusiasts reached 1000 answers posted in 2018. Versus 1532 questions.
Not so enthusiastic anymore, eh?
I see we're collecting off topic questions again... :(
eh, @Catija so... its a day that ends with Y?
3:04 AM
@YvetteColomb it's raining in Sydney too
@Catija well, the first action I did was to see how "the date embargo" poster reacted to this...
@HTTP Date embargo?
The user complaining about a mod having their info?
ugh, I need coffee...
3:27 AM
@Catija more that they feel european law lets them choose who exactly has access to their info
@HTTP You love drama too much
are you calling him a drama queen? :p
If dealing with the personal data of EU residents becomes as difficult as with the data of users < 13 years of age, the solution may be the same.
@JourneymanGeek MSO is my lunch-time reading...
@rene yeh - taken out of context it doesn't seem a fit for meta, but I think it's relevant if those questions are on topic
@SFTP commercially? That would be a tyre fire.
3:32 AM
A good choice, that one might give indigestion.
Come, all ye citizens of the Tavern... gather around the burning tire fire that is IPS meta.
If you look at where SE's hiring, germany (aka europe) seems to be a place they're expanding in
I still prefer technical drama than interpersonal drama...
... AKA, really?
3:37 AM
News are mostly personal dramas
very little about nature or science
like >90% dedicated to <10% of our surrounding (e.g. in the forest, ocean or space)
many news sites look like facebook - full of faces ... not do I use facebook
we care mostly about human world
we have very little control over nature
3:45 AM
nature rules over us
without us, cosmos will die
that's like the vengeance uttered by a kid who has been bitten by a goose
have you been chased or bitten by a goose before?
I was bitten by a flamingo once.
3:52 AM
in a zoo?
were you feeding it?
In a zoo, yes. I was not feeding it.
The only animal that has chased me directly to my face was... a roach -_-
I've been bitten on the face by a dog... twice.
4:11 AM
polishing the turd... o well,I did my best. Though it seems like a homework assignment
When I was 8 or 9, I was chased by a large dog once. I was so scared, I started screaming really loud. The dog got scared by my voice and ran away :p
All of the dogs that have bitten me (3) were small dogs.
4:41 AM
> Judge me by my size, do you, hmm?
^ dogs
damn yappers
I prefer dogs that are the size of a lab or larger. Small, yippy dogs and I... don't get along. My mom had a Giant Schnauzer... best dog. I also love Great Danes.... really, as far as I'm concerned, the best dogs are the size of small horses.
Semi-related: Once I was a young toddler traveling to India. I got up close to a stray cow with large horns, and it naturally waved its head, and...I had to be rushed to a clinic.
5:00 AM
some men are like dogs ... just some, not all
heh, those dog-people...
... Um. I can't create an account on Math Overflow?
@Catija any schnauzer is awesome
5:52 AM
@Magisch 1337 ... it is a sign, I tell you ...
@rene keep rubbing it in, its ok
@Magisch by no means I try to rub it in. I tried to cheer you up a bit. That I check on where you are should be sign I care.
@Magisch I lost two elections before I won a third
@JourneymanGeek You lose all of the shots you don't take
that's the spirit
5:57 AM
So this beats not running and then moaning about it
And you get lots of great feedback, and visibility for next time
I don't feel too bad either we got some decent candidates this round too
1 hour later…
7:04 AM
20K drupal meta.stackexchange.com/q/308190/158100 /cc @Bart @sha @glor @jou (needs one more)
20K capitalism meta.stackexchange.com/questions/308191/… /cc @Bart @sha @glor @jou (needs one more)
@JourneymanGeek And I'm trying to work with @TimPost to determine what that "strange reason" is...
@Ano see, this would be a great time to use a reply
What sort of reply?
I donno
I have no context to what you are talking about at all
I was referring to your use of the words "strange reason" here and ping Tim Post at the same time:
7:07 AM
@rene delvoted both already
Welcome to meta.stackexchange. For some strange reason, we get a lot of off topic posts here. I'd really suggest starting with the help center and tour to get a feel of what this site is about — Journeyman Geek 5 hours ago
oh that
shrug I already have a meta post on that more or less, and was just a friendly comment
@JourneymanGeek yeah, I assumed that was the case but didn't want to leave you out in case you missed one
I like to mix it up a bit, else it gets boring. You can only tell people they seem lost so many times
12 hours ago, by Ano
"This account is temporarily suspended for asking programming questions on meta"
This guy didn't respond to my canned comments and instead reposted
7:23 AM
One could almost think that 'meta' means 'homework' in some foreign language.
7:34 AM
Is the viewcount on a question on the internal SEDE split between anonymous visitors and logged-in users? asked here
8:01 AM
@Glorfindel quite
@rene deleted by The Glor... :)
or miscellaneous
@Ano the response rate is way below 1%
@ShadowWizard dutch power ...
They usually just ignore and go away, never to be seen again.
8:03 AM
@ShadowWizard I know. In fact, I said this in one of my answers.
The point was, they still reposted even after I left a canned comment explaining why we had to mark the post as "off-topic".
anyway... funny email I got:
don't send emails to socks...
which one did they mean?
8:20 AM
Also, Puzzling is the new Meta.
@Journeyman why did you roll back the tag edit here? Appears to be fitting tag.
@ShadowWizard feels like a classic meta tag
Tbh, if it was on a regular site I'd post a meta post about removing it
@JourneymanGeek you mean you plan to burninate that tag? Yeah, with 20+ questions better ask first.
8:22 AM
@ShadowWizard thanks, I couldn't have guessed ...
Ya. lol
was dealing with meta stuff on SU. ;p
Drama \o/
Drama \o\
Drama \o/
Drama /o/
8:26 AM
there done
@rene is a bigger flower than me. I'd have been tempted to saladcase that comment.
8:53 AM
@TelKitty Gossips. Those are called gossips.
9:18 AM
@Catija my nephew was chased by a peacock when he was 6 or 7, since then he has a trauma. He's 30 these days. lol
@ShadowWizard You should probably not take him to the San Diego Zoo
They let peacocks roam free across the zoo
I visited San Diego once, but not in the zoo
@ShadowWizard I tried to pick up a grown chicken in a petting zoo once
oh wait.. no, not San Diego, lol
And it did not like being picked up
9:25 AM
@Magisch ouch
What was the damage? ;)
Also there was an Emu at some point, but the emu was incredibly chill
@ShadowWizard Nothing serious, it started to fuss and I put it down and then it ran away
confuses emu with chicken
no the emu was at the same zoo
it's a petting zoo where they make money by selling food you can feed to the animals
it's like 2 bucks for a small bag of animal food
@Magisch yeah, was is such a place once with my kids. :)
No Emu though.
the emu was nice
it clearly only wanted the food, but it was nice
9:32 AM
The Emu War, also known as the Great Emu War, was a nuisance wildlife management military operation undertaken in Australia over the latter part of 1932 to address public concern over the number of emus said to be running amok in the Campion district of Western Australia. The unsuccessful attempts to curb the population of emus, a large flightless bird indigenous to Australia, employed soldiers armed with Lewis guns—leading the media to adopt the name "Emu War" when referring to the incident. While a number of the birds were killed, the emu population persisted and continued to cause crop destruction...
Not so nice ^
An emu is the result of washing your ostrich too hot.
reminding @HTTP to add secure layer today
daily ping for @M.A.R. so he won't feel neglected
> you may change again upgrade will complete in 16 hours
9:51 AM
OK, -100 still works.
(latest offensive troll)
He had 101 due to association bonus. Not anymore. :)
10:22 AM
@ShadowWizard So my rejected anonymous edit was correct after all...
Technically, every tag here is a meta tag. — Ano 24 secs ago
@Ano which?
(cc @Magisch one of the reviewers)
@Ano oh. No, it's still wrong. The -100 is fixed, it will also be applied to user with 100000 reputation. It just happens to be same amount as association bonus, and by any means it's not "taking away the bonus".
(message conflict) Oh, wait, you're talking about the -100 from spam flagging. I thought you were talking about manually revoking rights.
That didn't happen.
10:31 AM
@Ano SE does not manually remove the assoc bonus
I should know after over 100 cases of people who've deliberatley gamed it by using voting fraud
@Magisch yeah, it probably requires manually changing database and tons of headache... doubt it will ever be done.
I edited the FAQ to make this clear.
...that many 1-rep users whose public rep history shows a bonus are probably spammers or abusers
@Ano that's speculation, doesn't fit in FAQ, I think.
User might have also downvoted 100 answers. @Ano
10:34 AM
@ShadowWizard I didn't say all, I said many. I have an example of such a user...animuson on SR
@JourneymanGeek Out of curiosity, do you lurk here and nearly always vote to close questions that I post links here for? I think you do, since just a few days ago I issued a bunch of RC flags against retagging questions from the MSO era without posting messages here, and you didn't vote to close them.
If so, thank you very much ;)
@alexolut What do you think of my answer to the duplicate target of your question? I'd like to hear your opinion on it.
@Ano why don't you link directly to the answer? You require alex to perform extra clicks...
@ShadowWizard click.
@Ano and scroll
@Ano I lurk looking for stuff to answer
@ShadowWizard Still have to scroll to read it even if I directly link to it
It's not short enough to fit in one screen
10:49 AM
If it so happens i come across stuff to CV or DV (and often its before its here) I do what needs to be done
I've seen you always VTC questions I post here, but not ones I only RC flag without posting here.
"came across" = here
well sometimes, but not always
@SmokeDetector tpu-
11:10 AM
@ShadowWizard already done ...
@SmokeDetector why
 In general, men should have a total body water percentage between 50 and 65 percent, while the ideal range for women is between 45 and 60 percent.
men is made more of water than women, TIL
next time I shall tell that to a policeman: "I am more solid than you!"
11:36 AM
@rene it's never ending
@HTTP it won't reply to why on old reports
@TelKitty you become smarter over time!
@ShadowWizard use paper plates and cups ... burn it after dinner ...
@rene nah, I'll get sick from the smoke...
stand down wind ...
No wind indoors
I don't live in nature like you, flower.
I believe there exist devices specifically designed to create wind indoors
11:49 AM
@JohnDvorak sounds like wonderful thing to have
I'd be a fan of one of those devices as well, and it would be mine
I didn't use a fan for ages... in Israel air conditioner is a must and it nullifies the need for fans, so...
12:10 PM
@JohnDvorak you're a fan of fan?
calling @Inf
12:39 PM
I have some weird... quirks? One of them is that I usually got (struck by) static charge before I fell sick quite seriously
(random topic is very random)
It's raining and slippery, I almost fell but cut my foot and lost a lot of blood
(oh yeah, I don't believe in those pseudoscience either)
@HTTP you mean static charge makes you sick? Or is this kind of a sign you're going to be sick?
@ShadowWizard sign
@HTTP oh. How many times it happened?
@TelKitty ouch. Worse the falling, probably... you OK?
12:43 PM
@ShadowWizard limping
@ShadowWizard thrice at least, since I worked at new office
@TelKitty losing blood is really bad..
but otherwise okay
it's a small but deep cut
We need that blood inside.
12:44 PM
@TelKitty yeah, I know those... nasty cuts.
@HTTP oh. So it happens only since moving to new office??
Wait, now you're sick? @HTTP
@ShadowWizard yeah, but probably due to the flooring (wood) too... so...
@ShadowWizard yeah, because I haven't secured myself sore throat
@HTTP so you're at home, drinking hot tea all day? :)
wondering how nobody abused this so far
I think it's new, probably added by iBot iBug
is it pinging? ^
oh easy to test
buh, it's not :/
12:53 PM
@ShadowWizard I got the ping though ._.
Smokey would need your express permission before giving you cookies
@JohnDvorak parents consent
1:34 PM
sd k
2:06 PM
Maintenance on SEDE... V1 Captcha?
who knows, prepares bug report
We’re going to be doing some maintenance on the Data Explorer for just a bit to patch it up. It’ll be back online right after.
nope not that
2:24 PM
that's a bay unicorn - not a horse with a witches hat on his head
> 4 new javascript frameworks were released and abandoned since this question was first posted.
found here
still, why hasn't been burninated...
2:49 PM
I had a weird error last night when I tried to create an account on MO but on a different computer (at work, in Chrome instead of FF), it worked just fine.
@SNAFU hopefully not 6-8 hours
@HTTP I don't think @TimStone fixed it yet
3:12 PM
@Bolt: I don't think that's really true. We're past the insane churn of ~2010. When new frameworks are coming out, they're a lot closer to each other than they are to the old world. (Edit: okay, maybe by the time they finish, cause that's potebtially open-ended. ;) — Jeremy Banks ♦ 46 mins ago
I know this obviously doesn't apply to Bolt but I'm sensitive to this kind of thing because it reflects the general lack of respect people have for JavaScript.
The fact that it's always the butt of jokes.
Not for an abstract moral sense, but because I see the concrete effects of this in work.
People get it into their heads that JavaScript is a joke language, so they don't even try to do things as nicely, or look for better solutions that might now exist.
and in a self-fulfilling way, the JavaScript section of the code becomes awful because that's all most of the team thinks it can ever be.
3:15 PM
The JavaScript-savvy people in an org getting too little respect in decisions that directly relate to them, because "come on it's not like they know how to do anything over there in JavaScript-land".
@JeremyBanks also, erm... it has nothing to do with jaba, which people love to hate ;p
annnd it kinda is in that odd place where it can get used for... literally everything
@JourneymanGeek then why are the Java people the ones setting direction for the JavaScript developers?... in these imaginary teams I'm describing...
oh Java yes very serious language
let's export all of those great 2003 ideas because surely that's still better than 2018 JavaScriipt
(this is less imaginary than I want it to be)
3:18 PM
@JeremyBanks cause ... i donno
No, I dunno, it's more complicated than that. Inertia, politically-"safe" choices, insular corporate cultures that grow detached from the outside world...
That makes me think of the beginning of Meaning of Life where the accountants turn their office building into a pirate ship...
@JeremyBanks heh, or just outsource everything
my new job's basically "You're working for company A, on contract to company B who are on a project for ????"
so in that case the answer is "I don't know the decision was made a different company"? =P
3:23 PM
I think I'm working for the government
(who outsouces most IT)
@JeremyBanks Hey look, Java has improved to at least 2012 level of ideas ;)
It has lambdas! And still no multiline strings or collection initializers or properties :(
True enough, modern Java seems alright.
Though these hypothetically people haven't kept up with that either.
cause its easier to just hate things ;p
<--- could be talking out my rear, not a dev ;p
people are people; same songs different notes.
3:33 PM
@JeremyBanks as a very long time JavaScript developer, I must admit there is a point in such views. The flexibility of the language, the fact it has no strict rules for variables (e.g. you can set x to be int, then later on in the code to be date, then complex object, etc) making it really really easy to make it into real mess. It requires lots of skill and patience to write properly structured code with it.
@ShadowWizard That's why "Modern JavaScript", in my idealized over-simplified view, is typed.
Ideally TypeScript, because it is the best in almost every dimension, but Flow or Closure can be used too.
@JeremyBanks see also: BASIC, VB, PHP...
@Shog9 Very much. PHP has recently improved dramatically, but it'll be another ten years before most people glance past their old impressions enough to realize.
A: Why does voting in the election not ask me to sign up or log in?

Jeremy BanksBecause when you "just use jQuery" 😉 your code often depends in fragile ways on the DOM structure, instead of having clean access to an client view model. It's easier to miss an edge case. Elections are very edgy cases.

3:42 PM
Meta is deleting "Why does stack use jQuery?" while upvoting a bug caused by stack's use of jQuery.
I chuckled.
@JeremyBanks Migrate to MSE? :P
@Catija Hmm... it is a pretty sloppy question. Probably not worth dragging out the debate on that rocky footing.
Shog 💖
It's an honest question.
And Bolt took the time to answer.
3:48 PM
It seems like a valid question that, given some TLC could get a reasonable response on MSE.
Also, screw everyone who thinks React magically adds performance to sites.
lol, all true.
And screw everyone whose sites bring my phone to its knees because they couldn't resist the allure of a damn shadow DOM
You aren't going to beat Stack's current blazing time-to-render with any out-of-the-box solution.
*virtual DOM
still need coffee
half asleep and I'm already pissed.
3:51 PM
angry tired shog is still #1
Isn't he #9, though?
Anyway, the root explanation for why election pages don't do [X,Y,Z..] is that they were hacked together many years ago and mostly forgotten for subsequent changes because there didn't happen to be an election going on when those changes were made.
See also: why comment flags didn't link properly in the mod dashboard
...which is why they had to be removed...
...which is why comment voting had to be removed...
@JeremyBanks nobody deleted it, only closed. There's a big difference.
philosophically the same
3:54 PM
@Shog9 hey leave my DOM alone! ;)
@ShadowWizard It had delete votes; I was expecting it to hit 3.
did I mention I hate the name "virtual DOM"?
@ShadowWizard Maybe there are active delete votes on it?
I guess "re-implemented DOM in JavaScript w/ diffing" just sounds slow as mud.
@JeremyBanks oh, looks like they're cleared now somehow then. Or maybe they will appear again if the question will be closed again.
@Shog9 no, why you hate it?
3:57 PM
@ShadowWizard Well, Shog reopened it, so that'd kill the delete votes, right?
@Catija not sure... good chance they're still there. :/
reopening kills delete votes
@Shog9 one of these days I'll remember to check if that weird-ass dependency is still there
yeah, that'd be nice
@ShadowWizard it's lazy naming. "It's a simulation of the DOM... so, virtual"
it's like naming your integer variable TheInteger
I guess it was the lack of coffee that led you to say "shadow DOM" earlier. ;)
3:59 PM
I like shadow DOM. That's descriptive.
@Shog9 well it's very clear what is the variable.... ;)
It fit the context: you were complaining about overweight blogs, and I think Google themselves has blogs that use Polymer, which uses the Shadow DOM (as well as a Virtual DOM IIRC), which wasn't supported natively so required a massive complex polyfill, which ran like shit on mobile... to display a few paragraphs of text.
"oh-uh, this requires thought - better add a few more layers of abstraction"
"Shady DOM" is where Polymer really lost me for good. :|
every single generation of web-dev tools feels like it falls into this same trap: certain views need a ton of interconnected state, which is hard, so someone builds a tool to manage that state. And builds it into a framework. Which then gets used for everything.
4:09 PM
> When things are bad, just remember that there could be an aggressive rabbit trying to take the acorns you’ve been gathering all morning. -- A bear at 7:05 AM - 21 Mar 2018
Bloated JS frameworks are not that bad in comparison
my dog is currently staring angrily at a magpie
And the magpie is happily ignoring the dog?
the magpie is bullying squirrels
as magpies like to do
4:14 PM
I need to make a second pot of coffee.
just one of those days where I can't seem to shake the fog
@Shog9 aren't magpies nature's most poorly behaved bird?
two friends of mine from australia constantly complain about magpie swooping in the summer
All I know is they like to collect stuff.
I think I have a valid question for cseducators for once
4:21 PM
About magpies?
> Dear CS Educators,
Are Magpies truly nature's most poorly-behaved bird?
Thanks in advance,
- Magisch
@Catija nah about my intern
Biology Educators, Chemistry Educators and Physics Educators are slow to arrive on the Stack Exchange scene. Not to mention Physical Educators.
4:40 PM
@Magisch Yeah, I've been following the convo in CHQ.
5:22 PM
6:03 PM
@Feeds Prince made it in, but tough luck for Madonna.
How will explainxkcd transcribe this comic?
Looks like Safire-Garnet-Ruby is the only "lateral" connection here.
6:25 PM
> I am a hakka... I was about to flag as spam, but it's about en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hakka_people
7:38 PM
@SmokeDetector thanks, I need that. Finally had our GDC announcement, and I feel a distinct lack of energy :D
7:55 PM
@shog9 irt your off-topic/other site rewording I'm the final close voter for question 10 and I checked on SuperUser but I concluded that the exact same view only exists on SO because this is what I see on SU. I can live with that question staying on MSE but I rather learn what I missed / need to look for / should have asked the OP.
@rene what do you think you're looking at in their screenshot?
at a tag page
and what do you think you're looking at on SU?
also on tag page .... :(
there is no "no-windows-7" tag on SU
So by definition there cannot be a tag page for such a tag
and thus, you cannot have been looking at a tag page
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