Tavern on the Meta

user315433

12:30 AM

'tis the season for letters of evaluation...

user315433

user315433

Currently evaluating: the sorting algorithm used by USC here.

user315433

Unrelated: does C in USC normally stand for California or Carolina? I suppose it depends on where you are at.

user315433

A helpful tooltip there

user202362

12:38 AM

depends what S stands for

user202362

UC stands for university of california

user202362

apparently according to wiki, the university I attended has educated six prime ministers and produced five Nobel ... didn't find that out until recently

Catija

1:23 AM

That's not helpful. Naturally people who are upset by irrational medievalist barbarity will write with blameful "emotion". Where can one ask questions from people who have the logs, and the list of vicious perpetrators, and their wretched acts? — Gonçalo Mabunda 8 mins ago

Troll?

ɥʇǝS

likely

Andrew T.

2:08 AM

Morning...

Journeyman Geek

@Catija or just ranty and angry.

Catija

@JourneymanGeek How can you get that angry about a downvoted/deleted post?

Andrew T.

culture different (pfft) and language barrier

too long living in a culture like this art & crafts FB group on IPS.SE

Journeyman Geek

._.

@Catija cause people don't take the time to realise how angry they are.

And the world must be wrong, and that makes them angrier...

Andrew T.

"Everyone's wrong except me!"

Catija

2:13 AM

That's... not a fun way to go through life... you'll spend a lot of it "being wronged".

Journeyman Geek

Yup

And refuse to put down their anger.

You are what you carry with you ;)

Catija

By the way, I'm coming for your first place spot ;)

Journeyman Geek

ehh. If you get it fair and square its all cool ;) (Just bring it ;p)

Catija

I'm 1K down for the quarter... that's going to be difficult.

@ShadowWizard your new avatar is adorable :D

Andrew T.

I tried to help by commenting, let's see the result...

Journeyman Geek

2:20 AM

I'm #4 this week anyway

Catija

It's only been a day.

Journeyman Geek

;p

Andrew T.

or you can just del-vote it :v

Catija

I can't.

Journeyman Geek

hm. that was odd

I got a notification sound but no notification

Andrew T.

2:27 AM

mobile app? chat?

Journeyman Geek

MSE chat, desktop-web

Catija

Maybe someone edited an old comment directed at you?

Journeyman Geek

naw, was definately a chat notification

shrug no biggie ;p

Catija

... message... sorry.

Journeyman Geek

if its important, folk should make sure I can read it ;)

TheLittleNaruto

5:35 AM

Yo

Shadow Wizard

7:16 AM

@Catija thanks!

rene

8:20 AM

→ 9 messages moved to Chimney

Journeyman Geek

9:23 AM

meta.stackexchange.com/questions/303467/see-my-question-below cv plz @rene @ShadowWizard @TravisJ @AndrewT. (Am I doing this right? )

Andrew T.

kitty?

Did you mean Travis?

Journeyman Geek

@AndrewT. batsignal needs work. Looks like deformed rabbit signal.

user202362

not sure about close vote, but I can troll the asker?

Journeyman Geek

@Telkitty oh, carry on.

user202362

@_@

Andrew T.

9:25 AM

@Telkitty permission granted

rene

@JourneymanGeek awesome

@Telkitty seriously?

user202362

already did

Andrew T.

aww, I failed to flag NAA before it's deleted

rene

@Telkitty you are ... no words

user202362

just make sure that question gets deleted, you will be fine

Shadow Wizard

9:42 AM

@JourneymanGeek nice, but by pinging @Telkitty you made her write a non answer there... :/

Journeyman Geek

Alas

Shadow Wizard

:D

@AndrewT. I didn't. ;)

Journeyman Geek

I am terrible and shall somehow try to smack myself in the nose with a rolled up newspaper.

Andrew T.

Or with trout

Shadow Wizard

lol

Tuna

Journeyman Geek

9:46 AM

Naw, gotta keep in theme ;p

user202362

Yellowtail amberjack

The southern yellowtail amberjack, yellowtail kingfish or great amberjack, Seriola lalandi, is a large fish found in the Southern Ocean. Although previously thought to be found in all oceans and seas, recent genetic analysis restricts S. lalandi proper to the Southern Hemisphere waters. == Biology == Very little is known of the kingfish's biology, including their habitat preferences throughout juvenile life stages, migration patterns, and wild reproductive behaviour. Adults live around rocky reefs, rocky outcrops and dropoffs in coastal waters, and around pinnacles and offshore islands. Maximum...

user202362

perfect shape ... for whacking ...

Andrew T.

Wikipedia:Whacking with a wet trout

The above is a WikiTrout (Oncorhynchus macrowikipediensis), used to make subtle adjustments to the clue levels of experienced Wikipedians. To whack a user with a wet trout, simply place {{trout}} on his or her talk page. For newcomers (or for a less spammy version), use a {{minnow}}, {{diet trout small}} or {{diet trout}}. For a styleable version that can, e.g., be floated the right of talk page posts, use {{minnow}}. For not-so-subtle adjustments, try a {{whale}}. Any Wikipedian who wants to advertise an openness to being trout-slapped can add {{trout me}} to the top of his or her user page for...

(suddenly feel old)

Petter Friberg

10:08 AM

Can a user with rep <10K see a deleted question if he has an answer on the question?

Andrew T.

should be

a user can see their recently deleted answer, and the question is shown on the same page, so they should be possible to see their deleted answer and the question (but not other answers on the same question)

Petter Friberg

interesting I taught they could not see answer anymore once the question gets deleted

ok yeah you can I finally found some meta meta.stackoverflow.com/a/348780/5292302 they have changed that

Journeyman Geek

10:42 AM

there's probably a MSE post on that too

I pretty much remember being a bit miffed cause I was trying to hit 10k to see a deleted post... ;p

Andrew T.

But the pleasure to see all deleted answers and be entertained from the 10k rep is priceless

Journeyman Geek

If you can find them

and ya, did that ;p

(FWIW meta.stackexchange.com/questions/245822/… )

Andrew T.

now you made me want to hit 10k on MSE >_>

Journeyman Geek

;p

MWAHAHAHA

rene

My daily Meta complaint:

I don't see how this discussion can be too broad, nor why it should be closed. It is perfectly fine to discuss this, specially with the upcoming redesign of the ask question page, where the template (and later proposed wizard) are kind of tools to assist in asking a question. Not sure why this needed to be hammered by a mod either. do note the OP asks: My question is whether automated tools exist for this purpose, or whether users on this network would find such tools useful. What is too broad about that? Meta mob ... bah ... — rene 4 mins ago

Andrew T.

10:57 AM

Sometimes, title trumps body

rene

Ok, better title suggestions?

Andrew T.

dunno, brain cannot work at the moment

rene

@AndrewT. you are still breathing?

Andrew T.

brathng s invluntary

cnnot tpe

rene

sends emergency teams to the scene

Journeyman Geek

11:01 AM

beats @AndrewT.'s brain

Andrew T.

@JourneymanGeek Thanks! That fixed it!

Journeyman Geek

hm fail

rene

Beats me ...

Journeyman Geek

I can't remember if there's Vote to Reopen on metas for regular users

Andrew T.

from OP's comment: "are there tool to extract a MCVE from an existing piece of software?" Though the answer is 99% no, I still can't imagine/understand "to extract"

rene

11:03 AM

@AndrewT. wait for my answer, if it gets re-opened

Andrew T.

What I was imagining is: highlight all the code, extract -> minimum code which pinpoints the issue!

could be sold very expensively...

@rene opened

I know there is a tool for that!

... rubber duck

rene

@AndrewT. thanks, answered

Shadow Wizard

@JourneymanGeek why not? All the moderation is the same, except suggested edits that do not exist on meta sites. (except for tag wiki)

Andrew T.

even there's 0 reopen item on MSO...

... aww shucks, I missed the opportunity to increase the review stat again -_-

Journeyman Geek

11:54 AM

@ShadowWizard ya but vtr on meta is rare

Shadow Wizard

12:18 PM

@JourneymanGeek rare, but possible. And think it's not more rare than vtr on small sites. :)

Journeyman Geek

12:45 PM

Not saying its impossible, just that I didn't remember ;p

Feeds

You also refuse to buy Cisco products because you hate the Thong Song, O. Henry, Deep Space Nine, freshwater whitefish, teenaged Incan emperors, Brak's brother, and vegetable-based shortening.

Andrew T.

@Feeds wut.

Journeyman Geek

1:02 PM

maaan

Shadow Wizard

@HTTP amazon.ca/LG-Nexus-Google-Ferngully-Rainforest/dp/B01N3TUTZJ

Journeyman Geek

the obscure popculture references are strong in this one.

0_0

Andrew T.

sorry, only have Hammerhead

user202362

what did I say about knowledge with near 0 useful information content?

Andrew T.

like learning about sweets, like Cupcake and Ice Cream Sandwich?

Shadow Wizard

1:07 PM

Jul 2 at 4:05, by Telkitty

The more knowledge I gather, the more I am aware of those 'pseudoscience' articles. No facts, not even manipulated statistics. One strong opinion based writing from limited information.

Andrew T.

Or carrot cake that's not cake nor made with carrot...

Shadow Wizard

Aug 18 at 13:42, by Telkitty

we could flash this chat with useless information, may this room be filled with irrelevant knowledge ...

Magisch

> The motivation behind these should never be to earn badges (which, unfortunately, SE stimultes). IMO, all flagging, downvoting, putting on hold and closing (by anyone below moderator level) should cost the one who flags 50 points, downvoting should cost 100 and closing should cost 500. One should also get negative badges "Pesterer", "Gravedigger", "Bully" and "Whiner" for repeatedly engaging in these.

And no odious action should be allowed without a mandatory comment, constructive in its essence.

Damn, they managed to incense a big part of SE with this at once

Andrew T.

I don't want to be a generous person. Last time I did that, I was bullied.

user202362

@ShadowWizard I admire your ability for swiftly digging up old dirty

Magisch

1:09 PM

First time I've actually seen someone argue on behalf of spammers

Shadow Wizard

@Telkitty I am honored :D

Derpy

@AndrewT. I hear Iron Will is still giving out discounted "Become assertive" courses

rene

@Magisch yeah! Four more badges for me! ....

Journeyman Geek

@Magisch link?

Shadow Wizard

@JourneymanGeek link

Magisch

1:19 PM

@JourneymanGeek Linky linky link to end all links especially ninja links perpetrated by people like shadowwizard

Journeyman Geek

alas. its an answer

If it was a meta.se question I could have enough space to rip it to shreds, and nest in its entrails :)

Andrew T.

should send the link to MetaSmoke to show: THIS IS WHAT SPAM LOOKS LIKE ON SE

Magisch

@JourneymanGeek dogs don't nest, especially schnauzers

Journeyman Geek

@Magisch That's what you think

Magisch

I'm a little worried about IPS.SE btw

Shadow Wizard

1:22 PM

@Magisch why?

Journeyman Geek

ehh

Magisch

Between things that have been said and shogs warning from a while ago, it looks like they could close it down :(

Shadow Wizard

@Magisch warning? It had like 80% of HNQ

Still see at least one per day

Journeyman Geek

@ShadowWizard not necessarily a good thing ;p

It kinda has had a fair bit of unusual issues

Shadow Wizard

@JourneymanGeek good for SE. More clicks, more traffic...

@JourneymanGeek like? Trolling?

Magisch

1:23 PM

This warning:

Shog's rules for IPS

Nov 12 at 19:42, 13 minutes total – 38 messages, 1 user, 0 stars

Bookmarked Nov 13 at 8:15 by Magisch

Andrew T.

If NPE.SE can survive through Programmers.SE then SoftEng.SE, I believe IPS.SE can too...

Journeyman Geek

@ShadowWizard No real revenue stream from beta sites ;p

@ShadowWizard some rather... unsavory views

Shadow Wizard

@JourneymanGeek not directly, but it makes people talk about SE and know SE

e.g. on Reddit popular channels

Magisch

Something about IPS encourages everyone to give their 2 cents on any hot button issue

Journeyman Geek

one or two users who annoy me ... ;p

Magisch

1:24 PM

Not unlike the workplace

Journeyman Geek

eh, they kinda cover similar scopes

and have similar issues

Andrew T.

"Unlike the Workplace"... you want to try hiding all the comments?

Journeyman Geek

@Magisch sites have survived warnings

Shadow Wizard

@Magisch huh. so many "don't"... well, with almost nothing they can now ask there I agree, it wil probably close down at some point.

Journeyman Geek

@ShadowWizard you'd be surprised - people... find a way

Shadow Wizard

1:27 PM

@JourneymanGeek sure, and Shog will respond by closing the site.

Journeyman Geek

Unless you guys know something I don't...

Shadow Wizard

I mean... it's like telling a kid "don't eat chocolate. Don't eat sugar. Don't eat meat". So not much left to eat, and when the poor kid grabs something anyway, he's punished. :)

Journeyman Geek

cause sites getting closed a fair bit into beta is semi rare. And the mod team is doing their best - there's probably a few steps in betwen

Shadow Wizard

Change on topic!

Journeyman Geek

that is insanely fluffy

Shadow Wizard

1:32 PM

Can't beat this ^^

Funny enough, it appeared when I searched for "nesting dog". With the quotes. o_O

Andrew T.

Still love this one

Shadow Wizard

@AndrewT. well, it's in a different league

Journeyman Geek

Andrew T.

^ today's winner

Shadow Wizard

@AndrewT. can't beat real pets :)

user202362

1:41 PM

sometimes I am not sure whether an animal is brown or just white but dirty :p

Andrew T.

dyed brown

user202362

Shadow Wizard

@Telkitty oh this reminds me, I found pic of bears I took in Canada back in 2009 and wanted to show you a while ago:

user202362

:( ... you are making me jealous :p

Shadow Wizard

Why sad?

You didn't see any bears??

@Telkitty I'll share my bears with you :D

Or this squirrel I also took picture of during same trip:

Journeyman Geek

1:46 PM

@Telkitty kinda shiny blonde actually

user202362

sharing a lyrebird I saw last weekend

Shadow Wizard

:)

You go out to the forest just like that, every weekend? @Telkitty

user202362

not every weekend, but I ~~am feral~~ ~~wild~~ like nature so I hike/bushwalk quite often

Shadow Wizard

in Shadow's Den, 14 secs ago, by FOX 9000

No associated word found for Telkitty.

lol

user202362

1:49 PM

lol

Shadow Wizard

@Telkitty nice!

user202362

@ShadowWizard that's one fat squirrel, did it come up to you to beg for food? :p

Shadow Wizard

@Telkitty don't remember for sure.... think it was just there when we arrived. (Me and my newly wed wife, it was our honeymoon vacation. ;))

But yeah, it was in a place with lots of tourists, so pretty sure the squirrel got lots of food. :D

Derpy

@Telkitty It's just the totem version

Andrew T.

2:06 PM

sd f

rene

2:47 PM

@AdamLear is this maybe another instance of user profile creation gone wrong?

rene

3:48 PM

"The Student is Ready" -- I am not so sure about that... — maccettura 1 min ago

a tad rude maybe but funny nevertheless ...

Derpy

3:59 PM

lots of students (with credit cards) searching for someone willing to do their homework...
stack having financial issues...

I sense a common solution.

Catija

5:26 PM

Um... does anyone know where the post this refers to is:

5

Q: Ten votes to delete a question is not working retroactively?

The recently introduced rule that 10 delete votes is enough even for old highly upvoted questions seems not to work for questions that already have more than 10 votes. For example, this question has 11 delete votes without being deleted https://stackoverflow.com/questions/469696/what-is-your-m...

I have someone asking how delete votes on highly upvoted questions work and I can't find the actual explanation.

jadarnel27

44

A: Should delete votes be limited like close votes?

We had discussed this before, but deferred until there was a problem - it seems we now have a problem :) The new rules (also apply to undelete votes): 10k rep users get 5 deletion votes per day on questions they don't own - deletion rules on questions one does own are still in effect. Popular ...

Catija

@jadarnel27 Perfect! Thanks

jadarnel27

No problem! Hopefully that post is still accurate, I just noticed how old it is.

Catija

Seems like it is.

Shog9

it's linked from the deletion FAQ as the explanation for how many votes are required, so it better be...

Catija

5:57 PM

@Shog9 I looked through that to some degree but didn't see it. Guess I should have looked harder.

user315433

Last revised by an employee in May 2014; so if it was correct then, it probably still is now. Not much has changed on SE (outside of SO) since then. But Jarrod's notes in the revision history do not inspire confidence.

Shog9

the code references the answer as the spec (and quotes it), so I'm thinking Jarrod was actually revising it when he made that last update.

the logic itself is fairly simple:

votesNeeded = 3
totalScore = Max(question.Score + question.MaxAnswerScore, 0)
votesNeeded += totalScore / 20
votesNeeded = Min(10, votesNeeded)

(paraphrased)

user315433

6:32 PM

> As the town grows, more people move in to provide services to the miners themselves. These folks might offer tool repair, entertainment, food, laundry, and other auxiliary services. They are important for quality of life, but they don’t accomplish the primary mission of the town. So far, Puzzling has provided entertainment for people in need of a break from more productive sites. jericson.github.io/2015/05/15/site_evaluations.html

user315433

It doesn't have to be useful or well-organized, if its purpose is to be entertaining.

user315433

And some inhabitants of a village provide more entertainment than others.

user315433

10:09 PM

Taking stock of taking a stand

user315433

Reminds me I never got to ordering "First to VTC take a stand" bumper sticker.

user315433

Not that I have a car to attach it to.

Anonymous

Wow, nice analysis from Shog.

Catija

So... I've been slightly concerned by the changes to the account deletion process for users - I feel like I've seen a lot of post on IPS that are made in a drive-by way - users create an account, post an answer, remove their account. This seems somewhat concerning to me in general and I'd like to see if there's actually a "problem" - meaning users who do this when trying to post content that's failing the "be nice" rules.

Anonymous

Spent a second looking for the bounty button before realizing I was on MSO.

Catija

10:19 PM

I don't suppose someone could help me with a SEDE query to see a list of posts written by people with deleted accounts?

I know that it won't be able to show me any posts that have been deleted, so it may not give me a good sample of whether these posts are problematic or not. Mostly I'm trying to find some starter data to see if it's as much of a concern as I think it is.

Shog9

worth keeping in mind: deleting your account after making one post has been possible (and convenient) for years.

Catija

Also, if it's possible to see the age of account when it was deleted, that might help me quickly see whether the user was one of these drive-by users or was one of the few high-reputation users who have removed their accounts.

@Shog9 And instantaneous?

Shog9

@Catija yes

Anonymous

maybe this?

Anonymous

data.stackexchange.com/interpersonal/query/761098

Shog9

10:23 PM

age of account is gonna be hard to get accurate data for

got a CR in the pipeline that would make querying this data internally - network-wide even - trivial. As it stands, it's possible but annoying and time-consuming, so I'd prefer to wait for a backfill; that said, feel free to post a request on meta.

Travis J

@Shog9 - Do you think that there should be some sort of expanded ban for question banned users at Stack Overflow who then ask their SO-esque questions at other exchanges? (for example: meta.stackexchange.com/q/303497/178816)

Is an exchange wide q-ban even an option?

Shog9

@TravisJ that user isn't banned.

Travis J

That user isn't qbanned at SO?

Shog9

I don't know why they asked that question on MSE

Travis J

Okay, nvm then. Sorry

Catija

10:26 PM

@JeremyBanks Thanks. That looks like a good place to start. :D Unfortunately, unless I recognize the username, it's going to be difficult to tell whether they were a fly-by user or not.

Anonymous

Tricky...

Catija

Though, if they have more than one post, that's probably a good sign.

Shog9

small problem with that query - it includes posts that've never had an owner because they were migrated in

Catija

It would be interesting if the user deletion page included the account creation date along with the removal date.

Shog9

This is probably gonna give you more interesting info: data.stackexchange.com/interpersonal/query/761102

Travis J

10:30 PM

@Catija - So you are concerned that too many users are deleting their accounts? Or, what is the underlying concern about existing posts with deleted users?

Shog9

Excludes migrated posts, groups by (anonymized) display name, lists total first and last post date.

Catija

So there are only 15 one-post users on that list, which is fewer than I imagined, though that doesn't include deleted posts.

@TravisJ Not really... but I would imagine that a trend of users quick-deleting accounts implies that they may not want to be associated with the site - which is concerning to me.

Travis J

Okay. Make sure you track it as a percent of population to avoid inflation.

Catija

Also, if they quick-delete their accounts, we have no recourse in asking for improvements to the post or telling whether they're making a habit of doing it repeatedly to post bad content. But, as I said, no query of the regular SEDE is going to tell me how many of those posts were deleted (specifically deleted by the community).

Travis J

@Shog9 - WRT your recent meta politics post, I think there was one user who deleted then undeleted their account as a result. Not that would really affect anything. Also, I wonder if the drop in main site participation was the result of an increase in meta participation by those who took part in the original post. I was really surprised that of 3300 prime suspect users, there only seemed to be a handful of cross voting following the post - that was encouraging.

Shog9

10:42 PM

could be; I didn't dig to far into the deleted accounts apart from noting that there were some and that I wasn't gonna dig into them further.

Travis J

That's fine, it looked like a lot of work. I know you guys have been real busy lately.

Shog9

Sad part about that is I wrote most of it back in May and then couldn't quite get back to it.

I'm trying to sort of close out a bunch of stuff this week

Travis J

From my observation and mSO participation, I think that most of the site moved on and I haven't really seen a peep about the post. Maybe one glancing comment here or there. Also, I was one of your target users (I answered and commented), but in the aftermath I never felt like the community was any different towards me as a result of that activity.

user315433

11:16 PM

A bunch of emails from the 90s to be answered this week.

Catija

Some sort of 20 year time capsule or something?

user315433

Just putting this and this together.

Catija

Ah. Gotcha.

I do remember having those email time capsules, though... sort of disappointing if you think about it... requires that you actually still have the same email address from way back then.

user315433

11:32 PM

Google Photos has "rediscover this day" suggestions, bringing back pictures from X years ago. Gmail doesn't... maybe a smart decision.

Travis J

Yeah, that's what I really want to see! Spam email from the 90's :P </sarcasm>

Shog9

10 years ago today, I wrote...

(well, not quite 10 years, but the reply was 10 years ago and I can't link directly to the email)

user315433

11:52 PM

10 years ago today, my teaching assistant got food poisoning and couldn't meet my class, emailing the quiz as "take-home" instead. The attachment was in DVI format... much confusion among students who never heard of TeX.

user315433

My resolution was to move the quiz to the end of next week's lecture, and sub for TA for two remaining classes that day.

user315433

Yeah... as I suspected, Gmail doesn't have the feature for a reason.

Shog's rules for IPS

Transcript for