Tavern on the Meta

12:16 AM

Not even flash should be flash

Adobe should be ashamed

12:28 AM

@bwDraco The mod—and community manager’s—response was to lower the suspension for 30 days which I still feel is unwarranted despite private messages explaining that rationale. I’ve been transparent in all of my posts about this; these are not battles I am choosing. And hey, the meta thread was deleted so hey! meta.stackexchange.com/q/272744/243319

bwDraco

@JakeGould Don't have 10k on Meta Stack Exchange, can't access that question.

The only site where I have 10k+ at this time is Super User

@bwDraco Well, it proves the thread was closed.

bwDraco

@Quill The problem is that Flash is very ill-designed.

Does flash only include the internal libraries you use at compile time?

@JakeGould Just a general note: yes, suspensions can bring up tons of emotions, but if you're responding to a moderator, please be civil and avoid a general tone of annoyance. In some cases, mods do get it wrong (we're human too), but when people start getting antagonistic, a mod is less likely to want to continue conversing.

bwDraco

12:32 AM

Flash has been ask-to-activate on my instance of Firefox for a very long time.

I'm not trying to pick on you, just trying to give you some general advice.

@Andy I don’t think bwDraco should be involved in this, but I appreciate the support. Honestly? I think there was misuse of moderator privileges and the rationale was suspicious. I have reached out to the mod as well as community manager, but I doubt they will respond. In general I have never seen mods on SFF:SE actively jumping into threads and saying “Cool down…” or even trimming content. Moderation there seems to be all behind the scenes.

@hichris123 In general, if I am wrongly accused of something—here on the Inter-webs or in real life—I will push back. I expect anyone to do that; not just me. Just because someone has privileges doesn’t mean they are infallible. My attitude towards tone is one one the people in the equation has power they are using with little regard towards others. If the only power I have is my voice and facts, I will use that. You should ask yourself why the meta thread was shut down.

Doorknob

> This situation is already being handled elsewhere and it being on MSE probably isn't helping matters; I'm removing the post.

@JakeGould Yelling louder doesn't make someone want to agree with you more. If anything, it makes someone want to agree with you less.

@Doorknob Yes, it was “handled” elsewhere. The unwarranted 365 day suspension was lowered to a 30 day unwarranted suspension with no response from mods or community manager.

@hichris123 So basically, in your mind an authority figure is infallible and anyone who falls to misuse of power needs to be more and more trite and subordinate.

@hichris123 And my emotions are fairly calm. I honestly state if the suspension was removed right now I would not do much on that site past accepting an answer to the las question I posted. What does 30 days of being cut-off do exactly? Just make one more vocal towards anyone else who gets suspended unjustifiably? Mods can confirm; all I have posted.

12:40 AM

Not at all. I'm simply pointing out that people respond poorly to SHOUTING (on the internet, more of word choice).

@hichris123 We’re going to have to agree to disagree. But at the end of the day you need to just realize that I posted an earlier meta post about the need to clarify how different sites act/behave and that was down voted and “begged” to death. In light of this suspension, I affirm that post is even more needed. I’m vocal, but what about others who just get turned away before even participating? meta.stackexchange.com/q/272279/243319

Going to Meta was really not all you could do. Publicly calling out moderators earns you no one's respect. What earns my respect is a well-written and polite email to the CM team asking to look into the lengthy and in your mind, unfair ban. That doesn't mean you pour out all the events into this email, you do that when they email back.

@hichris123 Also, I will pull my NYC card… I was born and raised in Brooklyn. So there’s a stereotype.

Going to Meta isn't a last resort, and you're not speaking for the people, you're trying to either get a ban rescinded or a moderator in trouble. or both even.

If your post had been about Faceless moderation, that might've been actually interesting, and very much more relevant

@Quill I disagree. In particular with SFF:SE. On all other SE sites moderators are fairly right there and active in the process. I know who they are just from usage. On SFF:SE I literally cannot recall any of the mods who have been cc'ed on my suspension notices being active at any time prior to the suspension. No warning. No message in chat. Nadda.

@Quill This is a stark contrast to some times in the past SO and Super User mods have “tapped me on the shoulder” to give me a heads up about something I was not aware of.

@Quill “If your post had been about Faceless moderation, that might've been actually interesting, and very much more relevant.” Well, let me state this… I have repeatedly stated SFF:SE mods are not visibly active on the site. But now you use the term “faceless moderation.” Is there a thread or discussion on the subject? Has it come up before? Genuine about this.

12:48 AM

@JakeGould People will be people and act differently to each other, Moderators don't need to ping you, that's a pure courtesy. and you know what happens when you back a snarling dog into a corner...

@JakeGould Uh, sometimes I've had conversations about it or heard about it

A lot of moderators have an issue with the hammering ability, and that they can't go down from it

They don't want to look like they're moderator hammering everything, they want the community to give their involvement and be able to do so when the moderator cannot be present

@Quill At the end of the day this is the deal… If SFF:SE has a “faceless” moderation style, I’m fine with that. I am done with actively attempting to be a part of that community past the casual interaction.

@Quill But then you have moderators who are not policing comments, see flags as an annoyance and then decided to just randomly delete content—or in my case suspend a user—as a message of what.

You’re talking about backing a snarling dog in a corner. That’s bad analogy: I had no idea who these dogs are or where the corner is. That is the issue.

I'm talking about hammer voting to close and hammer voting to delte, not every other moderator tool

It‘s not like I went to my content—and the content of other—and just entered piles of gibberish.

@JakeGould The essence is, you put someone/snarling dog in a corner, they'll panic and fight back to get out

@Quill How did I put anyone in a corner by simply engaging in content processes I thought were innocuous?

And I’m not somehow a random dog just picked up by the dog catcher for walking around the front of a building? What should I do when I am tossed in the back of the truck headed to the dog pound? This is a two way street.

My reputation as a positive contributor to other sites speaks for themselves. A moderator can’t act like a human being and maybe think, “Hey, if I send this user one simple chat message it might save me hours of other work?”

Because at the end of the day on a raw/operational level, a simple message actually ends a lot of misunderstandings.

12:57 AM

This is one of the moderator questions, set by Stack Exchange, for elections

In contrast, just dumping a suspension without notice helps who and lessens what?

> How would you deal with a user who produced a steady stream of valuable answers, but tends to generate a large number of arguments/flags from comments?

Reputation and community involvement is one thing, but garnering flags and starting arguments / getting in arguments is entire other

@Quill One simple message targeted in chat or on a comment thread with the diamond character clearly visible ends tons of issues quite quickly. I have seen it myself.

@Quill Quill, I didn’t cause flags on my own content past—perhaps—these meta posts that are closed or down voted.

@JakeGould That's a specific moderator issue, I agree, using chat to communicate to people you're having a problem with is a more human thing to do

In the case of these comment threads, I simply flagged items myself. I would state, “These comments are obsolete.”

1:00 AM

@JakeGould I'm quoting the question

Q: Streamline moderators contacting users through chat

@Quill The contact-through-chat system is pretty annoying. :(

109

If a moderator needs to contact a user (and it's not severe enough to warrant a moderator message), it's common to make a private room and ping them. The procedure is: Create a new chatroom (named "Room for UserA and UserB") Superping the user with some stub message so a chat account is created...

Yeah, and some users are not fans of the superping

@Quill Well, how about this crazy idea… Somehow these sites need non-moderators/non-deep-involvement users posting content. These are the casual humans who create content here. Without us humans, what else is happening here? A handful of mods just conversing amount themselves.

user202362

user202362

Meh, but !@home

1:04 AM

At the end of the day, the best way for people not to ignore or vilify you is to not call them out, handle it internally, write SE an email, use the moderator report form

@TelkittytheWebDeveloper Are you getting yours on Thursday?

user202362

My SE swag status