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5:01 PM
Also, the users that favorited the formatting sandbox are quite mad
 
Is SO slow for anyone else?
 
@MichaelMrozek I'm insane, yes.
 
@ircmaxell Yes, but grain of salt, as my computer is slow for everything at the moment. (It is having a Serious Conversation with my SVN repo.)
 
@TimStone looks at results, stares
 
fair enough
 
5:03 PM
It's kind of sluggish for me.
 
Ahhh
 
It took me a solid ten seconds to figure out why "I'm insane, yes" popped up in a chat alert with rchern's face next to it
 
@ircmaxell not improbable you're seeing something; we're still having some issues
 
@PopularDemand well it's connected to the internet, yes? That's always serious business
SRS
BSNS
 
@MichaelMrozek o_O
Actually I'm just going to go with that sockpuppetry scheme.
3
 
5:04 PM
dammit, I blame balpharc.
 
@balpha Fair enough, figured it's worth bringing up
 
@MichaelMrozek it's just proof that that account really is her sockpup ... damnit Tim type slower
 
FGITWed me. (I blame the slowness.)
 
@RebeccaChernoff hands her giant Stick of Blame
 
@YiJiang Is that the pointy one?
Why oh why has my iPod decided to play only gospel tracks? Why are they even on my iPod?
 
5:06 PM
@drachenstern All of them are pointy. And giant. But you know that already don't you?
 
@drachenstern balpha's beta-testing his April 1 plan, I see.
 
Obviously I like having them to listen to, because they're in my library. But can't we do some Metal? It's Friday!!!
@YiJiang I had heard, yes
@PopularDemand oh god no, all the dev-mods have her powers now? They've assimilated then? Ok, I guess we're all doomed.
I'll just go ahead and lie down now. Save them the trouble
 
Twenty-seven days left!
 
First she causes garbage disposals to work in reverse. Now he's manipulating my iPod ... WHAT'S NEXT??
And what code do I start on next while I wait on this one to run? Oh look, maintenance documentation work ... let me go mindlessly type drivel for hours
 
@drachenstern I heard an interesting song on the radio last night; don't have a link handy, but look up Steve Martin atheist song.
 
5:09 PM
@drachenstern ^5s @balpha
 
@RebeccaChernoff "^5s," eh? Kids these days.
 
I don't understand that lingo there borchern
 
^5 = high five!
 
5:10 PM
/facepalm
 
@RebeccaChernoff ....No.
 
This page is not for general consumption
This is a list of notable and commonly used emoticons or textual portrayals of a writer's mood or facial expression in the form of icons. The Western use of emoticons is much different than the Eastern use, and Internet forums, such as 2channel, and Internet forums, typically, show expressions in their own ways. In recent times, graphic representations, both static and animated, have taken the place of traditional emoticons in the form of icons. Western The emoticon in Western style is written most often from left to right. Thus, most commonly, one will see the eyes on the left, followed...
However, the judges might have accepted o/\o
wow the google images for some searches .... no no you
I was looking for something like this
but the results for no no you with safesearch off are ... interesting
 
Ooh, the list of common misconceptions survived the Wikipedia equivalent of heavy-handed close-happy high-rep users.
 
link?
I'm just glad I managed to make three or four of you go spend time on google search :D (I'm hoping I did anyways)
 
5:16 PM
@drachenstern No, you derailed me with the list of emoticons. Not like I'd be stupid enough to Google for that at work anyways.
 
@PopularDemand bah, there's nothing NSFW ... there may be things nearly NSFW on there, but no nudity or the like.
It's just there's an incredibly large number of drunkards that like to contextually include "no you" in or around their pictures apparently
 
:This is not intended to be exhaustive. This list describes fallacious ideas and beliefs that are documented and widespread as well as the actual facts concerning those ideas, where appropriate. Inclusion criteria are as follows: a misconception's main topic must have its own article; the misconception must have reliable source(s) which assert that it is a common misconception (or synonym thereof); the misconception and its reference(s) must be present in the topic article; and the misconception must be modern rather than ancient or obsolete. History Ancient to early modern history...
 
well, maybe not so incredible, there are a lot of college kids on flickr n the like
@PopularDemand why would they close it?
 
lol
@PopularDemand Boo... No logical fallacies are included in that list...
 
@drachenstern Not encyclopedic, or something. All I remember is that it had a "should this page be deleted?" banner the last time I visited.
 
5:21 PM
wow that page gets a lot of edits
 
Hm, cops just popped into my office. Apparently someone in my building called 911 but they don't know who it was.
 
o_O
 
@PopularDemand there's something disturbing about this sentence:
> Crapper, however, did much to increase its popularity and came up with some related inventions, such as the ballcock mechanism used to fill toilet tanks.
I can't quite pinpoint it
 
@balpha Nor should you try to.
 
probably, yeah
 
5:26 PM
ok I'm gonna have to manually select Metal aren't I? Shuffle isn't good enough for you is it?
 
dam... Ok, I have more work to do then...
 
@ircmaxell No.
20 hours ago, by Popular Demand
Somewhere at SO HQ, someone just cursed as he was eliminated from the office pool on how many times people will discuss reached vs. exceeded before giving up and doing something productive.
 
hehehe
 
5:40 PM
some days I wonder that I'm the only one here who really truly understands webapps
 
It's a good thing I already have Electorate, because "Careers 2.0 Featured Listing: Web company needs successor for retiring unicorns" would have set me back a solid month.
 
state is a transient illusion
data is the only thing real
@PopularDemand eh what?
 
@drachenstern Many answers to upvote and downvote.
 
ahhhh
 
@drachenstern If you're going to programmer nirvana, can you bring us back some manuals on how to properly write multithreaded apps? Thanks in advance.
 
5:42 PM
nice
 
@PopularDemand There are no multithreaded apps, only concurrent processes
@PopularDemand isn't multithreaded programming only permitted for those who have been to programmer nirvana in the first place?
 
6:10 PM
Hi
Anyone here?
 
Ho
 
Hey, @ircmaxell
 
word up?
 
I need some help writing some CRUD code for that DB
 
Sure
 
6:11 PM
fleshed out the structure with @The last night.
Okay, great, thanks.
 
DDL I'm assuming?
 
DDL?
 
DDL == Data Definition Language. DML == Data Modification Languge
DDL == Create|Alter in mysql
DML == Insert|Update|Delete in mysql
 
Well, Yes, DDL then
I will need to delete certain things after a period of time
 
DDL means like the following:

CREATE TABLE MyTable (
   MyColumn VARCHAR(20) ,
   MyColumn VARCHAR(20)
)
 
6:13 PM
I've got the structure set up.
 
@Moshe this sounds like a business rule and not a data definition
CRUD is usually DML
 
I want to write code that takes form data and (validates) puts it into a MySWl DB
Oh, okay
Well... What do I know? I always get my acronyms wrong.
 
@Moshe I'll defend you on "asking basic questions" if you'll pose them as answerable questions on dba.SE
@Moshe that's what we're here to help you with.
 
Exactly...
 
@Moshe MySQL?
 
6:14 PM
Okay, thanks.
Yes, PHP & MySQL
 
DDL and DML are just fancy terms to describe what kind of change is being made
 
@drachenstern 'sactly
 
vs CRUD which really can be a few different things
 
ok, PHP -> SO. CRUD + I don't know what you mean -> dba
@ircmaxell true
 
Ok
 
6:16 PM
@drachenstern Yup. And anything else -> here :-D
 
Yeah, you could have DDL that did alter's on tables, but I really don't think that's a distinction for @Moshe yet
@ircmaxell lol, for the time being, until we get him sorted back into a bucket
 
Right
Nor is that usually a good sign in a production app.
 
I think what he really needs is some help from the P.SE crowd to get his program organized before he starts laying down code. I bet he hasn't even written out use cases or test plans or edge cases or anything.
 
But enough of this pedantic banter, @Moshe: describe your problem and we'll see if we can help
 
@ircmaxell depends on the app doesn't it? :p MyPHPAdmin I would want to do that ;)
@ircmaxell Indeed.
@Moshe you have the floor
 
6:17 PM
Okay
 
@drachenstern But of course. That's why I said usually. There are plenty of counter examples...
 
This website is for a benefits raffle for our high school
The spec was that the site should take contact info, and order info from a donor.
The problem was that the form was supposed to email CC information
@The advised me against it, naturally and now I've got to set up a database
 
"the problem was" I presume you've found that you shouldn't email cc info eh?
 
So I've got a databse set up.
 
mkay
 
6:19 PM
@drachenstern Of course.
I once wrote some DB code in PHP but it's been a while and I am not very experienced, although I learn quickly.
So I need to get this form into a DB and then I need an admin page to read out this info.
We run the CC numbers here
 
Yay, so really you need two pages:
 
Are you using a framework or any libraries yet?
 
one with a form to -> store the form information
one with a form to <- read the information, that is password protected or something
 
@ircmaxell No.
@drachenstern Yes, I've made a page with the form already. I have not written and PHP code yet to send the data to the server
 
Ok...
 
6:22 PM
How do you plan to prevent SQL injection?
 
As much as I hate PDO, it's prob best in this situation. Bind your parameters into a prepared statement
 
@drachenstern Well, i know that PHP has anti-injection methods which I plan to use, and I do validate the client input on both ends.
 
Yeah, I think PDO will be the best
At the very least our young @Moshe will learn how beneficial frameworks become and just why he should adopt them from the start of a project, because he will begin to appreciate the work they obviate.
 
@drachenstern Heh, as an iOS dev I know about Frameworks and why they're often awesome.
But yes, I'm sure I have a lot to learn.
 
But you didn't use a PHP db framework here
it would've made things easier. You also need to find one you like the style of
 
6:26 PM
I didn't write an PHP code.
 
We can't just say "use this one" or "use that one" because they'll fit our style, not yours
 
How can I be using a framework for code that doesn't exists?
 
You just said you're doing so
 
I did?
 
So you've only got an HTML form and no backside code behind it?
 
6:27 PM
Yes
 
Interestinger and interestinger
 
No backend code, but the DB was set up with PHPMyAdmin.
 
I still think that once you get past a certain amount of experience, the benefits of a Framework decline. Libraries absolutely are still beneficial, but the architecture step becomes more and more important with more skill, so the usefulness of a framework over a set of libraries becomes trivial at best...
 
Okay, in any event, I need to start somewhere.
 
Sure, I agree with that. I'm out of most of my Framework state of mind except for using .NET
but we don't use any EF or other ORM. Strictly ADO
Of course, we've got custom db logic that does most of our data analysis, so there's a reason for that.
 
6:29 PM
So I should start with PDO?
 
Having nothing at all I say no, you need to start somewhere else.
Running this on Apache with PHP I presume. Anything else running on this server?
 
Yes, another site, which I don't have access to.
I can FTP to the server, but no web admin access.
I can admin my DB though
 
Step 1: install cakePHP
Step 2: QED
 
What do you think @ircmaxell? adodb? zend_db?
you don't think cake is overkill do you?
 
I don't like either tbh
 
6:38 PM
Whoops, meant PDO.
 
Doctrine would be good, but may be a bit overkill
 
and I write C#, which I think everybody here is aware
 
Can I use PDO here? I'm not against it.
 
Sure, you can use PDO, but realize the interface is a bit archaic
 
@ircmaxell Archaic, as in?
 
6:40 PM
But better than MySQLi for prepared statements (whoever wrote that code should be shot
 
@drachenstern I never think Cake is overkill
 
Well, verbose. Overly verbose
 
@mootinator The Cake is a lie.
 
I have a static webpage running Cake.
 
@ircmaxell So I end up writing more code with that then...
 
6:41 PM
Set up an empty db for it and everything.
 
right
 
Is there something else that I can use then that doesn't require too much coding?
 
@mootinator Hey! Finally a good use for Cake! I've been wondering if that exists...
 
@mootinator yeah I'm working on a static webpage for an aspx over here atm ... lotsa fun
 
@Moshe: check out Doctrine. It's nice in that it takes care of just about everything for you
 
6:42 PM
nvmnd, google
 
@Moshe hey mikey, I think he's learning!
 
Heh.
 
I'm especially proud of my custom improv related 404 error: thenonos.ca/invalidpage
 
6:43 PM
haha.
DBAL does not validate for me, right?
 
@mootinator That's great.
 
> Today we lay invalidpage to rest. invalidpage was instrumental in the great battle of Baseball Card Convention in 1992 and we would all now be great if not for that contribution. But, we must be strong, and as invalidpage would always say, 'Blowing a fish in New York'.
 
> Actor 1: I have no idea how we got into this invalidpage!
> Actor 2: Me either, but we don't have time to worry about that now. We have a lot of looking for the page to get done.
> Actor 1: I don't even know how to looking for the page!
> Actor 2: Don't worry, I brought this internets.
> Actor 1: How is that going to help?
 
Unfortunately I only ever got around to writing those two scripts.
 
is reading the Doctrine DBAL tutorial
Thank you @ircmaxell and @drachenstern.
I'll be back shortly.
@ircmaxell - What is a "Transaction" in the context of DBAL?
 
@drachenstern I read that, I don't know what the word "transaction" means in that context.
didn't not read the docs, for a change
 
A database transaction comprises a unit of work performed within a database management system (or similar system) against a database, and treated in a coherent and reliable way independent of other transactions. Transactions in a database environment have two main purposes: # To provide reliable units of work that allow correct recovery from failures and keep a database consistent even in cases of system failure, when execution stops (completely or partially) and many operations upon a database remain uncompleted, with unclear status. # To provide isolation between programs accessing a d...
 
@drachenstern Thanks.
 
FOUND MY BUG ~mutters~ effing stupid development work always making me miss something dumb because we have a twelve bajillion step process over 9000 I said stupid views aren't the same as queues ~mutters and leaves~
 
IIRC, I want to read all of my data variables from the GET/POST request and then validate/process them and then use this library to put them into the DB, right?
 
6:55 PM
yes.
form -> POST -> PHP -> get POST values into variables -> crud framework -> database
 
Just checking: jQuery AJAX is covered by my SSL, right?
Add an <input type="hidden" name="usingJS" value="false" /> to my form.
If my JS runs, it changes that value to true.
Then PHP can output a webpage if JS is running.
If not, it puts out a regular page.
If I send my form via AJAX and load the response into the page, I want just a plaintext response to put into the appropriate place.
If JS is off, I want to print an entire page out, because the browser actually will load the processing page.
</rant>
Does that sound reasonable?
 
No.
It doesn't matter if JS modified the page.
 
Why not?
Why?
 
The PHP server should do every sane check on the data, regardless of what JS did.
 
I know that.
I'm discussing the UI.
 
7:02 PM
So then who cares if JS ran
just use a form
 
Yeah
 
It's a one-time deal.
 
No, let me try again.
 
You're not even giving them a chance to edit their info are you?
 
@drachenstern I am
If there's JS.
Hang on, let me explain again.
 
7:03 PM
eh, I wouldn't make that distinction
No, I get it, you want to make it AJAXy if they have JS, and use a form if not.
 
I have a form, but I'm using JS to submit.
 
Unobtrusive JS is the only form of JS to be used...
 
I would assume they have ajax for the same reason you assume that the people you want to target are wealthy enough to be using modern browsers on DSL
 
I think you're not understanding me and it's likely my fault.
 
but this is CC info, they will be happy to have that "don't refresh" that users have come to know and loathe.
 
7:05 PM
I'm asking about the response.
The server puts the info in a DB and then returns something.
If there is JS, we don't want it to return an entire HTML page.
 
So I would personally maintain two encodings: I would have a webservice that only handled ajaxy stuff, and I would have a page for postback.
 
If JS is off, the browser redirects them to the actual page and we want them to see a nicely formatted page.
 
but that's just me.
I see your pint, I think you're overcomplicating it.
either assume they have js and make that you're only avenue, or assume that you don't need ajax.
 
Fair point.
 
or if you're going to support two models, then support two models
one for ajax, one for non-ajax
because to me you're describing two different behaviors. So code for two different behaviors.
 
7:07 PM
Ok.
 
Don't have one massively overloaded procedure with extra branching gumming up debugging
 
I need to get started here.
 
yup, glad to be of assistance
 
@drachenstern Thank you.
@ircmaxell - You too.
is really rusty
Can I start with $name = $_POST['id_first_name']?
is really really really rusty
 
then you should really really really go read some stuff on the web
 
7:08 PM
You can
 
they put it up there for a reason
 
@drachenstern :) Ok
@drachenstern The web was put up for a reason?
:-D
 
@Moshe Yes, so trolls can eat up more of your time without you realizing it...
 
Unicorn trolls?
 
7:13 PM
@ircmaxell it would be better if that were a real tag on real questions that weren't closed
 
lol
 
I find it easier than searching for the tag.
 
@mootinator 0 questions tagged
 
ha!
 
I'm suprised we don't have any !bots in here. :P Against the TOS?
I suppose @rchern is close enough to one.
3
 
7:17 PM
Pretty well yeah
 
@JeffAtwood - Hey. Is the minimalist theme still applicable? I see it's been applied to mobile, but Physics.SE's design was pulled.
 
@Moshe it was a figment of your imagination
he left again
 
refreshes
eh
He'll be back.
 
Something along the lines of log in, Oh yeah, that's why I stay away from The Tavern, leave...
 
@Moshe not as long as crazy people like me are in here ;-)
 
7:21 PM
@ircmaxell I refuse
I wonder if you can make a QR code with tags?
 
hehehe, not that I need it or anything, just making around
 
@ircmaxell s/starred/flagged/ ;-)
 
a QR with tags?
 
[tag:i-wonder-if-this-is-really-tldr]
 
needs upvotes
1
Q: Make edit descriptions editable by moderators

Robert HarveyHere's why: http://stackoverflow.com/posts/4149530/revisions http://stackoverflow.com/posts/5164047/revisions http://stackoverflow.com/posts/3887095/revisions

 
7:23 PM
@ircmaxell Yea, use and meta tags
 
@mootinator tldr
 
Er, which I forgot how to make
 
feh
 
@Moshe: as in the links to them? Or in a qr code made out of the css (think gigantic image that looks like a QR when zoomed out)?
 
@drachenstern I am really tempted to post a naughty answer to that
 
7:25 PM
@ircmaxell A giant QR
 
really tempted
 
@TheOutOfStarsException don't
 
@TheOutOfStarsException do it. not my question, I'm just an interested third party
 
@Moshe LOL
I know it would upset you :-)
Maybe I'll use the new spoiler command
 
@Moshe /me is half tempted to do that... But it's too much work...
 
7:27 PM
@ircmaxell Ask @Pekka to do it?
 
lol
 
Bah
I was afraid the spolier wouldn't translate :-p
 
has been spoiled by the SEDE, and must now attempt to implement something like it. *Shakes fist at @waffles*
 
I was under the impression it was pretty much a textbox that connected to the database after first checking to sanitize some stuff
 
lol
 
7:33 PM
of course with a datatable display and some saving throws to keep a log of what all has been run
 
@TheOutOfStarsException if you're going to get today's Tavern digest done on time, you'd better start now.
 
@PopularDemand digesting is hard, I'm going shopping. You can do it for me
 
we're not starring the questions tho that are getting answered.
 
@drachenstern Oh I didn't mean to imply it was going to be terribly difficult.
 
7:36 PM
I've already done one town hall digest today, that's enough thank you :-)
 
Hm. Well, the digest just reports the important things that occurred, right?
Here's today's digest:
3 hours ago, by balpha
everybody in favor of @TheOutOfStarsException doing daily tavern digests raise your hand
got 13 stars.
 
@PopularDemand LOL
 
Or you could digest all the interesting answers to rhetorical questions.
 
This is true a Taven Digest would be so short
 
Now, I helped you this once because of the short notice and because I'm nice and because this way you owe me one, but tomorrow I expect you to complete the task yourself, @TheOutOfStarsException.
 
7:39 PM
aye aye @Pop
 
@badpssockpuppet AHAHAHAHAHA
 
@badpssockpuppet wait what? did you do those by hand?
 
@badpssockpuppet What in the...
 
Hey, that's not my name.
QuoraOverflow?
 
I'm telling you, recall election. Eight mods enter, six mods leave!
 
@drachenstern notify.show
 
damnit man, quit moving so quickly
 
uh, still there?
 
huh?
did you want it removed?
ok peeps, I need food
I shall return (most likely)
 
7:52 PM
@drachenstern enjoy it
 
I shall attempt to do so ;)
 
@BrantBobby I'm sorry
@drachenstern Nah, not really, but meh.
 
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