Sugarcube Corner - 2015-12-14

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7:58 AM

First secret hat:

cdn-prom.sstatic.net/WinterBash/img/hat/…

user image

Called Odinson - an evident reference to Thor.

Current unlock criteria theory: use the gold hammer to dupe/close a question.

Second one:

user image

Onion Knight

While the Onion Knight is a Final Fantasy 3 class, the hat bears no resemblance to the knight helmet.

Instead, it seem to be a reference to TOR.

Maybe you have to use TOR to connect to SE?

8:27 AM

Well, no TOR for me so can't test. Who got it?

(if it is a reference to Final Fantasy instead, I bet it has something to do with tags scores - Onion knight was also called Omni Knight because it was supposed to be good at everything. If this is the case, it must somehow use tags scores to weight how of an expert your are. Since Skett didn't get it.... it must be TOR)

I have Tor

I can test it now

@ShadowWizard I am trying to see if I can get some info from quartata too. He got the onion one on Puzzling SE

OK, go ahead and try :)

nothing so far

user image

Voting is no

8:30 AM

@Quill give it some minutes.

fair enough

I'll wait 5 and do an edit

Even if it is tor related, hat awarding has a delay.

5 minutes is up no hat

done an edit, trying that now

Well, I made my vote on meta and still got nothing, so I don't know how long it takes.

Strange, the onion-> Tor reference seemed the most evident one.

WAIT A SEC.

Yeah, definitely

What's up

8:39 AM

!!!! Final Fantasy 3 DS changed the way Onion Knight was unlocked!

> In the Nintendo DS remake, the player must send a Mognet letter to seven other people playing Final Fantasy III.

ping seven people?

Possible?

> In the Nintendo DS remake, the player must send a Mognet letter to seven other people playing Final Fantasy III. Afterwards, the player must send four more letters to Topapa, and the fourth letter will say that some children are in danger. The player must head to Ur and talk to Topapa, then head to Altar Cave and rescue the children from the Bombs. Afterwards, they will be given the Onion Knight job.

In the iOS/Android/PlayStation Portable/Steam remake, as there is no way to communicate with other players, the quest is unlocked once the player has completed 25% of their bestiary (usually…

That was my idea too.

well, I can try

But it feel strange, I mean... Ping? the den folks would all have the hat by now

@Derpy nope, Den is not very active as of late.

More likely it's for comment replies.

8:43 AM

yeah probably

Encouraging comment replies is good, too many newbiews are not aware of them, and thus their comments are lost in the void

in David's hat store on The Stack Exchange Network Chat, 26 secs ago, by Quill

This is a test (sorry in advance): @Derpy @NathanOsman @Mast @Hosch250 @Mike @David @Mat'sMug

Well, feel free to comment-reply me anywhere - but probably need to reply to 7 different users :/

@ShadowWizard Liked comments on posts, more probable. But the user didn't seem to comment a lot in the latest hours.

@Derpy hmm... so it's weird

8:46 AM

I am trying to think of something.

dont forget the GoT reference there too

Onion class has a stat growth of 12 points, so it could be something related to the number.

quora.com/Final-Fantasy-video-game-franchise/…

OOOOOk....

Games of Thrones.

Then let's try this...

> The technical abilities of the onion knight are similarly consistent with this metaphor. In most of the Final Fantasy games, the onion knight is initially underpowered but is also, in some unique way, the "ultimate" class, just like a Final Fantasy protagonist who typically starts out as a "town runt" or "a nobody" but ultimately becomes the most powerful force the gameworld has ever seen.

I'm thinking relating to the reversal badge

8:49 AM

Well this question is impressive and somehow probably gave that hat

> Therefore being an Onion Knight means fighting against something difficult.

19

Q: Alex-style Addition

Inspired by Alex's glorious Learn you an R for great good, we are going to humbly recreate Alex's "one true R program" -- but with a twist. Alex-style Addition works like this -- it has a 90% chance of simply returning the sum of the two numbers given and a 10% chance of recursively Alex-adding ...

code-golf random recursion

Maybe being twitted?

Maybe getting a highly rated answer against a confirmed answer

@ShadowWizard who got it?

@Quill there's already non-secret hat for this

ah

8:50 AM

Yes, but he is the only one with that hat...

the OP codegolf.stackexchange.com/users/45151/quartata?tab=activity

It must be something weirder.

Maybe... the glider avatar?

Maybe having your question be on top of Hot Network Questions?

Glider -> hacker-> smuggler

> Ser Davos Seaworth is a landed knight and a reformed smuggler.

stackexchange.com/questions?tab=hot

8:52 AM

@ShadowWizard good idea too.

Will have to wait until other question takes the first place and check

In the meantime...

user image

007

where are you getting these?

007 is a gentleman, so maybe a bounty

Nope, I believe it is either profile related "Apparently, this user prefers to keep an air of mystery about them." or something about a stealthy edit.

stealthy edit?

9:01 AM

There is a short period after posting during which an edit won't appear in the history.

oh, I see. I'm writing an answer now, I'll try that kinda thing

He posted an answer recently, and that answer got 10 votes. Either is the score, or maybe he edited something soon after posting.

Seem a pretty rare hat too.

I have tried an answer in the sandbox and then completely rewriting it, to the point it became a community wiki post.

Let's see

I just did my answer and quick edit and nothing so far

this user has the hat too.

stackoverflow.com/users/68972/jcl?tab=profile

curious

9:11 AM

If I should consider the activity history, it doesn't seem related to scores.

there's an answer 55 minutes ago

I still think it may have something to do with a stealth edit.

hmmm

JCL has never used chat, so you can exclude that.

I am still thinking of edits.

Self reminder: they don't use core.js anymore.

new script is

cdn-prom.sstatic.net/WinterBash/js/wb2015.js

brb

9:16 AM

also, the hat numbering has secret ones use higher numbers, so you can't guess how many secret hats there are that way.

I'm looking at the ones from last year

there's a few for making bounties on certain days

If one opts out of winter bash, can he then opt-in again?

I want to test if there is an hat for that.

@Derpy not sure, try on a minor site

it's a network optout

not a individual site optout

yo @derpy: is 'Sugarcube Corner' pinkie pie's bakery?

9:33 AM

@Quill It is.

oh! I guessed right!

@b_jonas Did you saw this?

user image

fluttershy's helmet is what meta thinks that's from

I know.

Also if you want to verify secret hats, you can go to http://winterbash2015.stackexchange.com/hat-name

and it'll 404 if that hat doesn't exist

9:38 AM

Interesting....

@Quill But I don't think we can really hope to guess a name.

well, perhaps

Well, then write out "I'm Joker"

404

@Derpy I haven't looked at the hats yet. But I should look now.

Well, I have little to do on this account, will try something this evening at home.

9:53 AM

whoops wrong chat box

You may want to avoid bad words either way, it is quite a weird period, with the chat rules begin reworked and all.

speaking of which, @b_jonas... I managed to have a reference inside Shog post... Look at my answer..

2

A: Toward a philosophy of Chat

Let's start with a simple claim, just to make it clear, since I saw so many flames during these days claimin that staff should stay out of "room culture" since the actually room dweller are capable to handle the management themselves. The chat is owned by the StackExchange staff All of us, top ...

> The magic of friendship doesn't just exist in Equestria. It's everywhere. You can seek it out, or you can forever be alone. The choice is yours.

I blame them for asking :P

10:25 AM

.... and I am officially mad.

If they do what I asked, they are the top.

10:53 AM

@quill I see you went to Jon room to have a look.

I did

why what's up

Yes, I know... it is a bad idea probably.

There have been a series of incidents in the chat rooms lately

Seem all started with a mayor fight in the Lounge, after some "bad messages" were flagged.

ah, the lounge

Users get mad at the staff for that.

After that, it seem that others minor, less know incidents happened.

over on CodeReview's chat room, a few things get flagged here and there, but I haven't seen a full on brawl like I hear about

Is Jon's room a watercooler or a place of conflict?

or a reporting room

10:55 AM

Jon is the community manager.

I use that room because it is one that he will read.

He is a member of the SE staff crew

I see

I knew that he was SE staff

I sent him a mail some time ago, and I may be one of the causes Shog got involved

Surely, the time between the Lounge incidents and my reports about the reactions other rooms had to flagging discriminating jokes is very close.

They are now trying to revise the rule.

I am trying to revise the community.

ah, well, it's not like people can say 'Derpy, why are you getting mad over discriminating jokes?'

because that's just silly

The community needs to release what chat.se is

not IRC or unmoderated haven for shitposting

but a sensible chat between comrades over a mutual topic

Sadly, it seem the case. They are getting mad. Probably, some see the chat as a safe heaven where they are the owner.

(btw, I don't know if you notice, but this is the only room that actually claim a pegi-7 tag...)

lol

11:01 AM

Actually, I am pretty serious about that. I try to keep the room as bad word clean as I can.

I am the room owner - I am SPArchaeologist. This account there is just one I use where I am out of home - at work, since I prefer to avoid using my main one after some virus issues we had.

ok

It may seem strange, but my home connection I actually trust more.

this will also explain why I avoid to post and vote using this account for the most.

I just tried to reach 100 rep point to have some chat privileges.

(image upload and such)

ah

This account was originally one I used for a chat bot.

I had a chatbot once

11:05 AM

You can still see the bot in action in the transcripts

and then the mods got mad at me

and balpha fixed the loophole

and then I got rid of him ;-;

Well, my bot didn't really harm anyone.

It wouldn't talk unless you asked it

Jun 16 at 15:05, by DerpyBot

~ Ok, @SPArchaeologist, let's see... *Flips a small coin* Luna. Sorry, seem I got lucky this time.
I think I will start with column 3.
|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|
|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|
|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|
|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|
|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|
|_|_|_|x|_|_|_|

mine kinda did, it reported posts being starred

I think I remember something about such bot.

Yes, I believe they got mad because it pinged people.

no, it didn't

11:08 AM

Then I don't really know.

I let it idle in most of the major rooms

and then it reported stars being starred

like:

> Derpy starred [this] in The Bridge.

It ran for about 20 hours watching 15 odd chatrooms before I spoke about it to fredley from Gaming.SE and then it got locked after that

Maybe it was deemed to heavy on the chat api?

@Derpy @UniKitty got a Greet Bot that does that whenever a user enter or leave a room.

@ShadowWizard wasn't it shoot down?

@Derpy no, it was a 'invasion of people's privacy' or something

I can't remember how fredley worded it

11:12 AM

@Derpy yeah he took it down after several unfriendly comments about it

@Quill ..... then why make the info available in the first place?

balpha patched it fast, and the lounge got mad because they were using it

@Derpy it was a websockets thing, they didn't know they were providing it

doorknob reported it ages ago but nothing became of it

@Quill well, it's the equivalent of revealing who voted. This is private action.

@ShadowWizard well, those were the arguments

balpha effectively said 'no discussion. it's no more'

And voting can be used for trolling either

11:14 AM

originally I found the loophole from some of rlemon's code

Yes, I can understand this. After all it is supposed to be secret.

they were using it in the lounge to track star trolls

and do 'surveys'

they got mad when balpha patched it

I was like 'it was fun while it lasted'

But yes, I hope it was a "don't use it anymore" thing more than a "burinate" thing

I can't, he turned off the field coming out in websockets

69

Q: I'm seeing stars! (I can see who starred a message and so can you)

So I was making a chatbot in Ruby for SE chat, and I discovered that I could find out the starrer of a message. I'm pretty sure stars, like votes, are supposed to be anonymous. Although this knowledge would help for cases of star trolls like this. Here's the specific slice of code that do...

support bug chat chat-stars

here's the link btw

@balpha For reference, we in the Lounge<C++> room have been running a case study of public stars for about the last 14 days through the use of an extension that everyone had installed. The effects were mostly positive. It was convenient to tell who supported a particular idea (helps communicate). On the negative side, there were two negative comments over the 14 day period where a person the chat didn't like starred a message. But those people were also usually given negative comments whenever they typed a message in chat, so I don't think it was really that bad — Lalaland Sep 2 at 12:44

@Quill I meant that I hope that they were "nice" in telling you to stop as opposed to accusing you of hacking/using a bug.

11:16 AM

Locking the account doesn't sound nice

they locked the bot's account

because I didn't have access to turn him off

(the machine he was on was off-site to me)

lol

So you're also to blame. Not a wise idea to have a bot you can't turn off or control.

well yeah

I mean I could turn him off

I could kick him from the room as RO

I think even Smoky got a "self destruct" mechanism

it was a console script, so it would've stopped

and I said that, but they still wanted to lock him until it was resolved

I wouldn't say the mods were 'nice', but I wouldn't say they were 'mean'

fredley was nice about it afterward, but that's probably because I PRed a bug fix on one of his projects

anyway

did we get any info about 007?

11:25 AM

Are there any secret hats remaining?

yeah, we'd assume so

there's two we don't know how to get them

@b_jonas I think there must be 5 to 10 secrets hats, to keep the numbers in line with last year.

I am trying Konami code around, but as expected, no effect anywhere.

we're at four atm

Hopefully there would be more secret hats than last year. They were revealed too quickly last year.

@Quill Btw, you know that you will be regarded as a griffon here, right?

youtube.com/user/tgcsilver

11:29 AM

@Derpy griffon? like gilda?

See the youtube link

Silver Quill is pretty famous as a youtuber reviewer.

oh

I forgot to add this account as a room owner... Well. let's use a star for now.

Anyway, another theory about 007...

"shaken, not stirred"

What could this mean for SE?

Also, I noticed that there are 28 normal hats, but... the Ids go up to 45

Does this mean they skipped numbers?

or there are really 17 secret hats???

11:45 AM

probably skipped numbers

Maybe some hats were partly planned and reserved a number, but not enabled because they weren't fully implemented or didn't seem a good idea to include.

And they didn't want to renumber.

I noticed that if you change the id on the div, the pop up opens the hat panel for that ID.

Anyone wants to test random numbers? or build a script to do so?

12:00 PM

in Tavern on the Meta, 3 mins ago, by hichris123

Hmm, I think Onion Knight has to do with getting a certain amount of upvotes (4 perhaps?) on a post after getting a downvote.

@Derpy sure, I'm in the middle of two answers, but after, sure

@Quill The worst one they can have, while keeping a GoT theme is "recovering from a question/answer ban"

@Quill Confirmed, Odinson has id 507644442

<a href="/the-airing-of-grievances" class="box box-closed" id="hat-7">

I knew that

if you change the id to that, it opens Odinson tab

3 hours ago, by Quill

Also if you want to verify secret hats, you can go to http://winterbash2015.stackexchange.com/hat-name

but how can we automate it?

12:09 PM

right click on the badge icon

inspect element

it shows the css that the badge uses

they're individual

nope, the point is that we don't need the name, just the number

but the id is attached

we could somehow automate the checks, incrementing the id by one each time.

I mean yeah, I could do that

I'm finishing up number two review and I'll send you a demo after that

I am wondering how the system gets the id? the only visible event on the button is the href.

The cat says he has edited something during the grace period...

12:50 PM

@Derpy yup, and got a score of 7. Sounds reasonable those are the two requirements.

1:02 PM

MWHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

the program is running.

The secret will be no more...

nice

currently at ID 1200. Nothing found.

it's in the millions

I probably would have better to start from Intmax and going reverse.

good luck

you'll probably get banned before you get it

1:07 PM

yep you are right.

it was a nice idea thoug.

also... the funny thing is that the requests are anonymous.

bah, not worth the time.

@Derpy I tried the same last year. The ordinary hats got small numbers, but secret hats got insane and totally random numbers.

You'll need to scan to the billions.

public static void Main()
{
for (int j = 1; j < int.MaxValue; j++)
{
string url = "https://winterbash2015.stackexchange.com/hat?id=" + j;
//Console.WriteLine(url);
WebRequest wrGETURL;
wrGETURL = WebRequest.Create(url);
Stream objStream;
try
{
Console.Write("\r{0}... ", j);
objStream = wrGETURL.GetResponse().GetResponseStream();
Console.WriteLine();
StreamReader objReader = new StreamReader(objStream);
string sLine = "";
int i = 0;
while (sLine != null)
{
i++;
sLine = objReader.ReadLine();
if (sLine != null)

just run something similar to this.

That would make you IP banned ^

exactly, I don't want to do so many requests.

I have tried to see if it is workable, but I stop here.

I did a 10 seconds wait between each request

But of course, it means it needs years to find all the hats

1:14 PM

that way, winter bash would end before you get to the first secret one.

yup

In the meantime, leaderboard show no sign of other secret hats surfacing

When I figured that out, I removed my hat before @balpha and gave up the idea. :)

1:42 PM

another 007 here

math.stackexchange.com/users/8348/arthur-fischer?tab=activity

he doesn't seem to have 7+ score posts created recently

8

A: Do not show hats to people who haven't visited the site

The only way a user can wear a hat is if they explicitly put it on from somewhere. When they go to don their chapeau they are also given the option to only show it on the site they are putting it on from: So users already have the ability to restrict the sites which show their capped avatars.

he got the hat on MSE

So 0 comments on Q, 0 comments on A, and 7 score is indeed the key.

-3 question

So?

maybe reversal kinda thing?

@ShadowWizard yep, best bet so far.

2:24 PM

@Quill I don't think the question's score matters for 007. I've seen another question/answer that probably caused this hat to be awarded, and the question had a positive score.

Is the Onion Knight still a mystery?

um we also think reversal for that one

@Eran see my edit, I am sticking with Miller here

6 hours ago, by Quill

> The technical abilities of the onion knight are similarly consistent with this metaphor. In most of the Final Fantasy games, the onion knight is initially underpowered but is also, in some unique way, the "ultimate" class, just like a Final Fantasy protagonist who typically starts out as a "town runt" or "a nobody" but ultimately becomes the most powerful force the gameworld has ever seen.

@Eran yes, so far saw only one user with it, if there'll be more, would be easier to guess

@Quill I think The Game of Thrones reference is more likely, since it's better known than Final Fantasy (given the popularity of the HBO series).

2:29 PM

I also suggested that IIRC

6 hours ago, by Quill

dont forget the GoT reference there too

@Quill I don't get why the hat was made in that shape though.

it's an onion

onions are round

yes, but it also seem to "plush like" for GoT

both seem to be pretty obscure references

I would have expected a metal helm, not a knitted one

2:32 PM

there's supposed to be that concept of an onion being like something bad, and a knight being good

@Quill yep. But if it was referenced to FF, I would have expected the actual knight helm

user image

the concept is not a solely FF thing

that was the point.

3 mins ago, by Quill

there's supposed to be that concept of an onion being like something bad, and a knight being good

that's why I thought reversal

but there's surely more to it

Sir Davos was originally a smuggler, then "bettered" his ways. So maybe having negative score on your post, editing it, then getting X upvotes?

2:39 PM

maybe

1 hour later…

3:56 PM

So this is the hat research lab

:P

@Quill I had Quartata comming here. He is the one with the onion hat.

cool

I will try to return later, you are free to use the room

just keep the discussion bad-word free :P

sure

So we're thinking currently it's a reference to the Final Fantasy Onion Knight and I got it because the Alex-style addition question got a lot of upvotes very very fast

(I guess that's what happens when you make a question about a PPCG meme)

It's definitely not a reversal hat though because I didn't get any downvotes on it when it was first posted

4:02 PM

ok

how fast were the upvotes

like 10 in 10 minutes kinda thing?

@Quill Basically.

hmm

It had 15 upvotes and 135 views when I went to bed yesterday after about an hour

It got the first 10 votes really quickly though.

it was also hnq

top of hnq, IIRC

Yeah. It's top of it right now.

I thought it might be something HNQ related but the upvote growth theory makes more sense

Since that would actually relate to the Final Fantasy Onion Knight

4:04 PM

hmm

6 hours later…

9:56 PM

How the heck do so many people have the Batman hat? It seems like a difficult hat to obtain.

@Derpy How can you tell? It doesn't seem like I can sort by hats first.

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