!!status

aaawwww ....

Looks like the websocket doesn't work on my debian box

I need moar logging because it doesn't bark at me in the log

@rene :(

@Pierre.Vriens MSE is not very active, not so many users who review. So such things can take even day or two. I reopened directly from the question, outside review, so it is not listed there.

@ShadowWizard Ya man. Want some weed?

@JoErNanO sure!

@JoErNanO sure!

@Pierre.Vriens I sometimes need some sleep. You don't want me to click on review buttons while I'm on sleep deprivation ...

@ShadowWizard that's what I seem to have noticed ... and yes I also noticed you used your "gold badge" power to undo the duplicate decission (which obviously matches with my perception as mentioned in the preface of my question now).

@rene Goede morgen ! for sure I wouldn't want you to do so. But if you don't mind (and if it is not an indiscrete quetion): can you teach me why in your opinion my question should have been considered as a duplicate, as I seem to understand from your voting here? If you do, "I won't hold it against you" ...

@Pierre.Vriens hammer was used indeed. :)

@Pierre.Vriens well, I did find that the duplicate was still appropriate despite your well formulated argument that the dupe didn't answer your question. I thought it did but I see other powers overruled that.

@rene sorry I insist, but just looking at your reopen-vote it was already clear you thought so. I'm trying to understand "why". Because what I don't get: how can a question about reopen (and close) be a duplicate of close (only)?

@Pierre.Vriens If the mechanisms are similar, it doesn't matter

@rene well, @animuson answered both. I assume if this was really a dupe, he would have closed it himself. By not doing so, it means they are probably different enough to warrant different answers.

Maybe without the answer I wouldn't have reopened.

Fair enough, let's move on

;)

@rene your 2nd attempt to avoid answering my question ... unless I hear different, I'm going to assume you prefer to not answer (which is fine for me also then)

Maybe I made a mistake? I make plenty of those.

@rene Flowers aren't allowed to make mistakes

Oh, that will become an issue then.

@rene I consider your 3rd attempt to answer my question as not an answer either ... since it's a question (= something that ends with a "?" ... Don't worry, and to quote from a previous comment you posted: "Let's move on". So how is "Keukenhof" like at this time of the year?

@M.A.R. Which "flowers" are you talking about? "Apple Blossoms" (from my own garden from yesterday ...) or something else?

@Pierre.Vriens I haven't been there lately but the fields in Noord Holland were colorful two weeks ago so I assume the Keukenhof is good to go as well.

Is it allowed to QA-test around here a new "meta.SE" question (by just posting its title)? To check if you can think of any similar question (to avoid duplicate), and to check the probability about if it'd be considered a good or bad question?

sure

@rene aha, that means it looked already how my (wife's) tulips garden starts to look like right now over here, merci!

@Pierre.Vriens rene is famous for being a blurry flower

pretty amazing how quick these things grow once the weather turns OK

@Pierre.Vriens I didn't get what you're saying, but it's pretty okay to discuss anything here

Perception test about a new (self answered) question I have in mind: "How to make an anonymous downvoter of your answer look like an idiot?"

Future meta posts are surely discussable, why not

@Pierre.Vriens O.O

@Pierre.Vriens I would anonymously down vote that

That title doesn't seem to be of a post that would be received well

The meta consensus is that you should shrug off the random downvote everyone gets

So such a post won't be highly received, in my opinion

@rene tsk tsk tsk Invoking Godwin's law

If anything, try to avoid calling me and other users idiots or hint on that I am one.

@Pierre.Vriens why do you think it is important I feel that way or look like that after I down voted your answer?

And how would it help in improving content quality?

Hm, and what if I tell you it would actually be a trap to catch all the downvoters of my own answer? Because remember: everybody claims downvoting is anonymous ... I claim it is not, and would like to use the trap to proof my claim. PS: What is "O.O"? PS2: no worries René, I'll not use the word "idiot" then, and also know I've not (yet) investigated who downvoted any of my answers on meta.SE

Why would you want to catch them?

correction: anonymous downvotes of "my answers" (not my "questions").

@rene : simply to ask them to teach me how they think I can improve my answer, hoping for them to reconsider there downvote afterwards. A bit similar to what the famous blue box suggests when performing such kind of downvotes ...

well, if you do that the same way you interrogated me about my close vote I don't expect much teaching to be happening.

(New) Perception test about a feature request I'm considering: "Allow personalization on any SE site by introducing the concept of labels"

How is that different from tags / favorites?

@rene : that's what I started to assume, which is why I ended with "let's move on" ...

@Rene my new question has nothing to do with badges, but "favorites" goes in the right direction ... hang on for more details ...

@Pierre.Vriens I mistyped badges ... meant tags :/

Maybe I should have typed batches

Details about my personalization question: think of any "object" on an SE site (question, answer, comment, tag, ....). for each Object, I want to have some way of "tagging". But not "tagging" like we know already, that's why I use terminology "labels" (better suggestion to replace l"abels"?).

And if I'd be allowed for any of the supported "objects" to invent my own (private!) labels, I could use a GTD-like approach, similar to processing an inbox in an eMail. Get the idea?

Would it help if i describe my current work-around for this missing feature, which I use for about 2 years on Drupal.SE (without that I could impossibly remember all the things I want to 'GTD' on that site ...)

Difference with tags: a tag is what "the community" decides to use for (only) a question. With "personalization" I mean "I want to have something which I can decide about myself". So yes it's also about "tagging", but by using the name "labels" (rather similar terminoogy), which is not used anywhere yet, I want to avoid confusion ...

Hm, things got silent. Looks like it's time for a break (ie gardening time for me). I look forward to any kind of feedback about this personalization/labels question I have in mind (hoping that if it's perceived as a good question, I won't be too late to post it soon without the risk of ... a duplicate!)

@M.A.R. but @Pierre is also a flower now

@rene yes we know you grow fast

@Pierre.Vriens not a good idea, as the flower and chemical told you... it can't bring any constructive discussion.

I you really found a way to see who downvoted, that is a bug in the system. First try sending email to the team explaining exactly how you do that and asking them to fix it in private, if you get no response post a bug report on MSE, and try to reveal as little as possible of the technical details so that others won't abuse it too much.

@Pierre.Vriens Hmm, Ok. That makes kind of sense. It reads as favorites on steroids. It is worth keeping in mind that SE doesn't really care about individual users. They care about content. So if they have to choose to spend development time on features they most likely go for features that help the content be come better/more/higher on Google etc. Having a private labeling system for users doesn't seem to fall into that category.

That's what white hat hackers do, they find exploits in systems, and alert the owners before going public. @Pierre (usually it results in quick, silent, fix.)

@Pierre as for labels, GMail got them, you can attach a label to each email, set of emails, and use filters for that, e.g. all emails from Stack Exchange will get "Stack Exchange" label. I didn't get how you mean to use them on SE, so if you're going to post such feature request, better come with full explanation and examples.

Also, this one might not get a positive feedback also for being very complicated, i.e. falling into the "too complicated to be worth the efforts" category.

@Rene you seem to confirm my perception about what SE really cares about (and explains other, not-at-all related, strange SE decissions).

@Pierre.Vriens Don't misinterpret what rene said

Because I know a lot of people do

I myself did

SE can't be apathetic to users

Who the hell is all this content for?

But SE isn't going to be cuddling users because they're users

@M.A.R. what would be the wrong way to interpret what René said? FYI: I have the same perception already for long time about SE ...

@Pierre.Vriens The wrong way would be to become like peterh, thinking "oh, they don't care about users, they just care enough when they post questions and answers"

@ShadowWizard merci for all the valuable feedback (that's why I also want to QA-test first ...). About identifying downvoted answers: I already did that before ... in comments to mods (without the details), via CM team (they responded "bring it up on meta), etc. IMO its not a security issue, instead it's a "design flaw" that I take advantage of. Last time I did: about 1 hour ago (on drupal.SE)

@Pierre.Vriens I always QA-test before posting anything on meta.SE

@M.A.R. that's scary, since that's pretty close to my perception also ... which I try to not show in public (sometimes I fail ...).

@M.A.R. and which technique do you use to QA-test your posting????? similar to what I did here, or something else?

@Pierre.Vriens It's wrong to think that way because it makes SE look like a bunch of evil masters sitting in large towers in their headquarters, planning their next move to obliterate Earth

It makes you conspiracy-minded. Trump-like

@Pierre.Vriens Well, after searching around, and making sure I do have an idea that hasn't been asked before, I type in the Tavern, something usually starting with "Do you think it will be a good idea for"? I don't have a lot of posts or ideas, so it rarely becomes annoying.

I wait for feedback, respond to feedback, and when I'm sure it won't be downvoted into oblivion, or receive negligible feedback, I post

To whom it may be of any interest: Havbe a look at my rep page on Drupal.SE. The anonymous downvote you'll see there, is from this mod ... trust me (I used my downvote discovery tool!)... Mods and/or high rep users lead by example, right?

Yeah, they do lead by example. But why in the world is downvoting without feedback not leading by example?

@M.A.R. Which part of the blue popup don't you understand? I have no problem with downvotes, but I do have a problem with somebody who indicates something is wrong, without saying what it is, so I have no way to try to learn or improve. That is my point.

@Pierre.Vriens What blue pop up? The one saying "you should prolly leave a comment"?

That in no way is saying you're obliged to provide a reason for an anonymous downvote

And not providing any feedback is in no way contrary to leading by example

@Pierre.Vriens well, that's how Stack Exchange works. Many tried to fight it, all of them lost. You can also fight it, get angry, rage quit... nothing will help. My point is.... the only way is to accept that's how SE works. Like I said, if you really found a way to see who downvoted this is a serious bug/breach that should be fixed, as it can only lead to bad things.

@Pierre.Vriens oh, so in this case post a bug report on MSE and give all the details. Not obscure things like "I can see who downvotes" (which only irritates people, and would lead to rain of downvotes) but more like explaining how you do that. You can also keep it as your "secret weapon", nobody can force you to reveal this.

@M.A.R. looks like we have a different perception of "leading by example" ...

@M.A.R. merci for sharing your approach about using the (scary to me) "Tavern" to QA-test possible questions ...

@ShadowWizard I more or less agree on "accept that's how SE works". I rather think "make sure you understand how it works, and then try to accept that, or let it go (move on, etc). Not doing so may damage your ... REAL reputation (not what SE calls 'reputation' ...".

@ShadowWizard about the 'answer downvotes discovery' feature: it's not about bug (it works as designed), instead it's an error in the design of SE sites. So if I ever disclose it, I'd NOT use the bug-tag myself (but start from a support-tag, leaving it to others to call/retag it a bug ...). However the key question I keep asking myself: "What could be 1 good reason for me to disclose it to the world?" ... or should I say "What's in it for me?").

@Pierre.Vriens yes, that is true.

@Pierre.Vriens nothing in it for you personally, but if others will find it as well and use it for bad things like revenge downvotes, it won't be good to SE in general.

Since downvotes should be anonymous, any way to reveal them is a bug, even if the bug is in the core of the system.

But anyway.... please try to avoid answers or comments like "I can see who downvoted", it will only make people angry at you, in the best. (here in chat it's fine-ish)

Tada!!

!!wut

~ WUT?

!!wut

~ What are you talking about?

!!status

@rene bot doesn't count his own messages anymore?

!!!

~ Maybe lookup my instructions?

!!

~ That is all gibberish to me...

!!instructions

~ WUT?

!!pee

Can you try !!time @ShadowWizard

!!time

~ Sat Apr 15 2017 18:00:33 GMT+0200 (CEST)

yay!

That's your own time? @rene

Oh, yes, it is ...

Might need a to UTCDate or so

Tada!!

!!wut

~ WUT?

!!time

~ Sat Apr 15 2017 19:48:57 GMT+0200 (CEST)

!!poo

~ 💩

@ShadowWizard hmm, yeah, I had to fix something else for so the websocket would also work on my local network

!!poop

~ What are you talking about?

!!kill rene

~ Maybe lookup my instructions?

!!eat cake

~ That is all gibberish to me...

!!don't-pretend-to-be-a-bot

~ WUT?

!!die

~ What are you talking about?

!!fly away

~ Maybe lookup my instructions?

!!lookup-your-own-instructions

~ That is all gibberish to me...

!!gibberish

~ WUT?

!!lick

~ What are you talking about?

!!you-suck

~ Maybe lookup my instructions?

@M.A.R. you suck too

@rene ಠ_ಠ

Do anybody know how to check the no. of users for a site. Like how many can close vote, how many can review suggested edits, etc. I once remember seeing a page like this. But now I can't find it.

@Mesentery You could possible query data.SE

@Rahul2001 Are u saying to visit the data page.

@Mesentery I remembered I answered such question on MSE: meta.stackexchange.com/questions/290835/…

@rene ಠ_ಠ

!!poo for @M.A.R.

~ 💩 💩

!!poo for @Joe

~ 💩 💩 💩

!!poo for @Rahul

~ 💩 💩 💩 💩

!!poo for @Dro

~ 💩 💩 💩 💩 💩

!!poo for @ber

~ 💩 💩 💩 💩 💩 💩

!!poo for @Faw

~ 💩 💩 💩 💩 💩 💩 💩

!!poo for @James (both!)

~ 💩 💩 💩 💩 💩 💩 💩 💩

!!poo for @mav

~ 💩 💩 💩 💩 💩 💩 💩 💩 💩