02:00 - 21:0021:00 - 00:00
2:31 AM
@Kyle is this a Gmail account? If so use the login with Gmail and don't use the manual email address. I have these problems also. Lots of sites let you login now with your Gmail credentials and it creates an account for you — Big Joe 15 secs ago
@RyanM Just because a title like 'Dad' is is gendered does not make Dad a reference to gender. It makes a reference to a title which can be used by the person referred to a 'Dad'. You seem to find this confusing, I do not. For example, in French <it>une cigarette</it> is feminine, that does not make a cigarette into a woman. — Carl 23 secs ago
2 hours later…
4:33 AM
5:27 AM
To generate the markdown link go to the Actions link in the left-hand pane of the Mermaid Live Editor and hit the 'Copy Markdown' button. — Joman68 30 secs ago
1 hour later…
6:50 AM
I've been able to get this to work again at work. They lowered the policy a bit. Really too bad users must deal with this issue themselves after such a long time, still... — LPChip 21 secs ago
@Piper any word on getting the ignore tags less visible without the requirement of some user mods? i see the tag status-completed, but the problem very much still is the exact same. Its still useless without any mods on my part. — LPChip 43 secs ago
7:48 AM
Don't use fancy emoticons or unicode please. Whatever you put in " devices" appears as blank rectangle, and make it harder to read, and does not look good. Use plain English. If you mean mobile, write the word mobile, not emoticon of unicode of phone. Might be funny to some, but not for me. — Shadow The Spring Wizard 50 secs ago
@Shadow if u don't see it, then u r not affected. So just pass by. BTW there's no possibility to edit the notice. — αλεχολυτ 52 secs ago
@αλεχολυτ but I am affected. It's harder to read the message, and it affects others as well, so no, I will not just pass by. I'll try to improve it. I know you can't edit this one, I'm trying to prevent this from happening again by explaining why it's bad idea to do that. — Shadow The Spring Wizard 54 secs ago
As for the bug itself, probably the tap action of iOS sends different code to the browser, and SE "listens" only to codes of mouse click events. — Shadow The Spring Wizard 10 secs ago
8:43 AM
@wizzwizz4 You asked for a wording that obviously can't be used as a cudgel, I tried by suggesting amend mistakes based on assuming good intent, which probably can't be by either side, so what do you think? — Philippos 21 secs ago
9:40 AM
If the question is really short it likely is not clear enough. All the important information should be contained in the body and the question should be comprehensible without the title. The title is simply a summary of the question body. As such I can understand the desire to form better titles automatically. However, my fear is that this fails because most of the question bodies do not contain sufficient information and it's more like polishing a turd. But in principle you should be able to judge a question without its title. If that is impossible, maybe it should be closed. — Trilarion 43 secs ago
Hm how about users with X+ reputation can use this feature and get their title suggestions?! — Christianidis Vasileios 23 secs ago
@Mephisto It's not really hate, but rather strong skepticism. The future will tell. However, in this case it's mostly "even AI won't be able to improve anything here, because there is a fundamental problem with user generated content that needs to be addressed first". You may be able to use AI to address that problem, but the company isn't doing that. They seem to believe that one can generate good titles out of bad content. I doubt that. AI isn't magic. A good use of AI would be in my eyes to draw peoples attention to bad content earlier and only later help with good titles for good content. — Trilarion 36 secs ago
That might be a good idea. You can tell newbies apart also from their rep or how long they are active on the site. But ultimately one should only judge each question on its own and only by its content, never by the users who created them. The content has to stand on its own. If it cannot, something is wrong. — Trilarion just now
2 hours later…
12:09 PM
12:36 PM
What if the great majority of the downvotes are necessary? What if the votes are on the post, and have nothing to do with the person who made the post? — Andrew Morton 49 secs ago
@AndrewMorton Then I'm sure the community member could also find an equal number of useful posts to upvote. — RockPaperLz- Mask it or Casket 16 secs ago
Votes are not for showing kindness, never have been. They are there for quality control. Suggesting voting should be used for kindness is a bad idea. You're right about the larger problem in society though, where everyone seems to think everyone needs to be kind to them instead of controlling the quality of a society. — Tinkeringbell ♦ 23 secs ago
@RockPaperLz-MaskitorCasket If you can make a business case for having a separate "add kindness" button, you can post it as a feature request. — Andrew Morton 11 secs ago
@RockPaperLz-MaskitorCasket Not just eugenics, any kind of excess on both the left and right of politics will be caused by this problem in society. As long as people can keep extending the overton window under the guise of 'you need to be kind to me and my ideas', you can end up anywhere, including eugenics. That's why a society needs quality control (which involves being mean and 'punching nazis' sometimes) just as much an SE site does. — Tinkeringbell ♦ 34 secs ago
Hi Michael bryan, welcome to the Stack Exchange Network Meta site! I'm not sure which search brought you here but the problem you describe will not be answered on this specific site. To get an expert's answer for the topic of your question you'll have to find and then re-post on the proper site. Check How do I ask a good question and What is on topic on the target site to make sure your post is in good shape. Your question is definitely off-topic on Meta and is better deleted here. — rene 39 secs ago
1:20 PM
Well, this should have been said by someone, at some point. Kudos for being the one who say it, and in an excellent way. — Shadow The Spring Wizard just now
1:40 PM
I'd note that moderators and curators are considering a strike in response to some of these issues. — Mithical 44 secs ago
@Mithical It's not even the kind of strike that needs to be organised. It'll just happen by default. — wizzwizz4 51 secs ago
@wizzwizz4 - Sure, but having concrete demands and some organization helps the possibility of some of those demands being somewhat met. It had a measure of success last time. — Mithical 50 secs ago
2:04 PM
2:37 PM
I'm sure the reasoning behind banning detection tools is to avoid having "Anti AI" stamp, which will harm them badly if going into AI, which they plan to do. It has nothing to do with the detectors being inaccurate, it's just a very lame and transparent excuse. But even more annoying, is the way they keep lying about all of this. Tell the truth, even if it's unpopular, and at least you'll get to keep some respect. Sad. — Shadow The Spring Wizard 26 secs ago
@Mithical well, the impact is even bigger and worse than the Monica scandal. So yeah, something should be done. :/ — Shadow The Spring Wizard 32 secs ago
@ShadowTheSpringWizard I have no idea what they think AI can bring to SE and it seems like this is the path we are heading one way or the other. Allowing AI content here is the fastest way to crash the whole system. — Resistance Is Futile 24 secs ago
Fine words, pity they're thrown on a blank wall. (Yes they ask for feedback. No, they don't really do anything with it, when it's against their decision.) — Shadow The Spring Wizard 55 secs ago
I had bad feeling ever since that "Community is future of AI" blog post. I am still hanging around... but I have significantly cut my activities. I am just tired of everything... — Resistance Is Futile 36 secs ago
Good heavens Miss Bella Blue, I'm surprised by the presence of this post on Meta. There was widespread opposition to this change in the past, and this post is yet-again heavily downvoted. I hope that the staff at Stack Exchange can "read the room" and recognize that that this unpopular change is strongly rejected by the community. And I hope that the moderators can see that we, the community, respectfully would like to make it clear that these downvotes and comments show clear opposition to this change. [attempt #5 to satisfy mods. note that expressing a disagreement is not delete criteria!] — Michael Altfield 59 secs ago
@ResistanceIsFutile they don't think, that's the whole problem. They see AI as the goose who lay golden eggs, and just want some of those eggs, no matter the actual cost. — Shadow The Spring Wizard 26 secs ago
@ShadowTheSpringWizard There are lots and lots of ways to both integrate AI into the site, and to leverage the content here for future AI development, while actively banning external AI-generated content from posts. Yet, indeed, I think you're probably right, and the people making these decisions don't understand any of it. — Bryan Krause 19 secs ago
Congrats, everybody. SE completely ignored every single response to Community is the future of AI. — Andreas detests censorship 35 secs ago
... And now the new voting buttons were just pushed through. They like screwing us over. — Andreas detests censorship 25 secs ago
yes I know, it's not my first rodeo with SE. But I felt the need to say it anyway. — Devin 22 secs ago
STOP MESSING WITH THINGS! The website works fine, we don't need constant UI changes. — SurpriseDog 46 secs ago
@MichaelAltfield The moderators are appointed by the community, and they mostly agree with us. — Andreas detests censorship 56 secs ago
I was considering supporting this change initially. After seeing them in action... your post gets a downvote. A temporary 30% (not quality-ensured) voting increase is not worth these ugly things. — Andreas detests censorship 30 secs ago
This is also a problem when using the "Bedtime mode" on Android, which enables Grayscale display. The shading is very subtle, and at a quick glance I might ignore the difference thinking it an artefact of lighting or angle of view. — muru 50 secs ago
On top of that, regardless of the comments and answers below this post, the changes just went live: seems like developers designing these like buttons completely ignored all this discussion. They probably took quite some time to come up with this design, and a lot of time was spent on experimentation, although the spent effort should not influence the decision of adoption (or not adoption). — lemon 36 secs ago
Hey, at least your Upvote turns blue. We don't even get that on the math.se meta. — JonathanZ supports MonicaC 13 secs ago
I didn't consent to the change ... That is not how it works. Build your own Q/A site or get hired by SE as a designer if you want a say in what features look like. — rene 17 secs ago
@JonathanZsupportsMonicaC Oof, that’s bad. If you zoom way in, a selected vote button on math.se is actually the dark navy of the site’s theme. But totally indistinguishable from the unselected button. — Thomas Markov 6 secs ago
Wow, changing things that nobody asked for isn't enough, they also have to do it in a sloppy way... — hkotsubo 21 secs ago
Any chance of featuring this post? Perhaps not right for the author to feature it themselves, but another moderator might be interested. Well, unless it's better to just await the official posts? — Andreas detests censorship 47 secs ago
Funny how this is the case and yet the original claim was that they were doing it "in order to improve accessibility". — Nick stands with Ukraine 27 secs ago
+1. In fact, at least you can note your vote (the color change). But in meta sites, it only appears as a thin dark circumference around the arrow which is at best not distinct enough to be perceived. — User1865345 28 secs ago
Speaking of the roadmap... This month's been a one-year anniversary since I asked for it.... — Oleg Valter is with Ukraine 36 secs ago
Maybe you could remove the
.question prefix so it also works on answers? — samcarter_is_at_topanswers.xyz 59 secs ago@LPChip It is not the exact same. It is 25% lighter than it was before the fix was rolled out, you can see this if you inspect the s-post-summary__ignored and see the opacity set to 75% — Piper 56 secs ago
Folks, I get the irony, but voting to close it for lacking focus... seriously? All of the questions outlined by JG in the post form a single complex issue that many of us would like SE to address. — Oleg Valter is with Ukraine 1 min ago
"help users engage more" ... and then completely ignore them seems to be what's happening here. In my opinion, the decision making process here is terribly flawed. — Eaten by a Grue 21 secs ago
At this point, I'm inclined to write a Meta post asking for the resignation of the CEO and the board. It's a pointless request from somebody all the way down on the bottom like myself, and completely unrealistic, but it's the message I want to send. — Andreas detests censorship 1 min ago
Seems to work great! Personally I'm using a lighter gray: i.stack.imgur.com/W1Nrx.png — samcarter_is_at_topanswers.xyz 32 secs ago
Hi ahmed hassan, welcome to Meta! I'm not sure which search brought you here but the problem you describe will not be answered on this specific site. To get an answer from users that have the expertise about the topic of your question you'll have to find and then re-post on the proper site. Check How do I ask a good question and What is on topic on the target site to make sure your post is in good shape. Your question is definitely off-topic on Meta and is better deleted here. — Sam Onela 11 secs ago
It seems to me that the emperor's new clothes is that current structure only wants the numbers, there's no interest in content quality as an essencial feature. That seems to me a decision, not a mistake. And I mean it, I'm not writing with any significant emotion attached. — Bacco 57 secs ago
Okay. The more we are noting, the more we are able to conclude the inevitable: the design implementation is a disaster. — User1865345 20 secs ago
@ElementsinSpace Remove the extra descriptive words and re-read it: "We've got features prioritized, and features in deep backlog" - Adding colons makes it make no sense: "We've got features: prioritized, and features: in deep backlog" — Spevacus 50 secs ago
I can hardly tell when I've voted for something now. At least make the colours easier to read — FShrike 33 secs ago
Commas instead of colons, please; no spaces. Makes more sense that way — Andreas detests censorship 10 secs ago
Your post has me questioning whether or not I have OCD or maybe am developing it as a reaction to these new buttons. — Eaten by a Grue 51 secs ago
I think we are past the time of thinking that management doesn't "understand the community" or the mechanisms or everything else. It seems to me more simple than that. Probably we should instead wake up and understand that the network we knew doesn't exists anymore, this was sold as a mere product, it's just business, and it works in a different way now (aka "accept or look somewere else"). All the points and discussions are "right", but just aren't relevant to this business anymore. — Bacco 51 secs ago
You must be new around here. I kid, I kid, but we've had so many iterations of Stack Overflow Inc not caring all that much about the backbone that makes it successful to begin with, they're turning into anime story arcs at this point. Maybe if I'm so inclined later this evening, after work, I'll write up a more coherent response than this passing remark. But hey, maybe it was a blessing in disguise that you didn't get hired here? — Makoto 56 secs ago
Aside from these round buttons not matching the SE theme (which is dominated by rectangular/angular shapes), they are rather difficult to see on Meta SO: i.stack.imgur.com/1lwW1.png. Truth be told, I accidentally un-downvoted a post there because I couldn't tell that I'd already downvoted it. — Sylvester Kruin 52 secs ago
@Lou While I may not agree with you about liking these arrows, I do see where you're coming from with the users complaining a tad excessively. The way I see it, there's a lot of bitterness coming from previous decisions SE has made, and that bitterness is being expressed in users' complaints here. — Sylvester Kruin just now
I've been around SO for a while now and unless I'm losing my mind (totally possible), wasn't this the way these buttons were styled ages ago? — j08691 5 secs ago
4:44 PM
@j08691 Not as far as I can tell by looking at the Web Archive, but I could be missing something... — Sylvester Kruin just now
@Makyen Another way that people can think of it as a bug is to perceive the bug as "my account wasn't [x]" instead of "some accounts in general weren't [x]". In other words, any behavior that is obviously incorrect is a bug, even though it may not be generally related to everyone, and a support question is for things where someone isn't sure if it's a bug. — Sonic the Anonymous Hedgehog 20 secs ago
"It almost makes it sound like you want to signal visitors without an account to vote more often, which we know is not that useful right now... Right?" well, they can't currently, anyway, though i suspect that won't be the case soon. — Kevin B 36 secs ago
@Spevacus Is it: the "features", that "we don't really need prioritized", or is it: the "features we don't really need", that are being "prioritized"? — Elements in Space just now
@Spevacus Is it: the "features", that "we don't really need prioritized", or is it: the "features we don't really need", that are being "prioritized"? — Elements in Space 1 min ago
@NickstandswithUkraine It really begs the question, “did you even check meta sites before shipping this?” — Thomas Markov 13 secs ago
Why was the CSS class for spam-masked posts removed? This broke a user script that removes masks on such posts for non-moderators, and while the developer fixed it, the current fix depends on the wordings of the post deletion notice and masked post message to detect a masked post, meaning it would break again if those wordings are changed, and would require more work to function on the international sites due to their wordings being in different languages. It would be nice to have that CSS class back so scripts that work on masked posts can continue to work properly and be more maintainable. — Sonic the Anonymous Hedgehog 5 secs ago
@V2Blast Considering the effort you put into making sure it wasn't forgotten about, maybe it's time to mark this as status-declined. — Mast 39 secs ago
May I suggest to at least decrease their relative dimensions (and possibly remove the circles) after one have voted? — Bob__ 33 secs ago
@EatenbyaGrue if you don't like the new design, everything's fine! But if you do like it, you should see a good doctor. — Fabio says Reinstate Monica 46 secs ago
5:18 PM
It feels like almost unfair piling-on to put this all in one place, but there really does seem to be a lot of source material. — Bryan Krause 25 secs ago
So you just changed it network wide, without even telling when exactly it's being done. Not that it matters, but still, showing a lot towards how you really care (or NOT) for the users and the feedback they spend time to give. Huge thumbs down. — Shadow The Spring Wizard 57 secs ago
@BryanKrause Perhaps – but I've only included problems with the same root cause. — wizzwizz4 23 secs ago
"Have I missed anything important?" Yes; lots of upvotes on your post. They're currently missing. — Andreas detests censorship 1 min ago
@AyxanHaqverdili that's the next level. First they'll remove the downvote option because it hurts the users feelings. Then change "upvote" to "like". Then give initial 10k reputation to each new users, along with removing all privileges. Then... [fill the gap[ — Shadow The Spring Wizard just now
@hkotsubo Could you (or someone else) edit those into the answer? Like many moderators, the recent stuff has thoroughly exhausted my spoons. (See also: the uncharacteristically-for-me poor grammar and formatting.) — wizzwizz4 50 secs ago
it almost looks like somewhere up the management chain users are seen as as a consumable resource as best, noise to suppress at worst. That was made quite clear when meta user were name called for the first time as that "vocal minority" that "makes employees unwilling to engage" (actual words were a tad worse). Since then we had multiple apologizes, legal actions swept under rugs so no one will know what happened etc. But I still feel that same exact attitude that made me stop to contribute outside of some small answers posted now and then. — SPArcheon 21 secs ago
@Bacco sadly that's correct, and it's a repeat of a previous forum I was member of for long years, since 2000 until it was sold and closed down due to extreme "makeover" around 2010. The company that bought it made it into an advertisement board, with ads feeling each and every spot on the screen, all active members left, and visits dropped from millions to hundreds, those hundreds being only spammers, or me. — Shadow The Spring Wizard 50 secs ago
@Andreas The board can't resign, they are not even employees. They have one goal: to make sure the company is making as much money as possible, and they have no clue what the company actually does, what are SE sites, and anything else besides how much money it makes. — Shadow The Spring Wizard 35 secs ago
@ShadowTheSpringWizard indeed. I hope people understand I'm not bashing anyone, it's just that I'm feeling that people (old time users) are spending a lot of energy trying to solve an ant problem, too attached to the past, and didn't noticed the elephant in the room, and perhaps I writing about it can help some people to rethink the angle. — Bacco 19 secs ago
@wizzwizz4 Done. It's not as detailed as you did with blockquotes, but anyway, more details can be added later (honestly, I don't have the time or energy to do it now, I'm just tired of how SE is disregarding us) — hkotsubo 59 secs ago
@SPArcheon when did we get an apology? I don't remember seeing one. We certainly didn't get one from the employee you quoted, her "apology" was a lengthy post about how hard it is to be a "leader" which never included the word sorry, or the phrase I apologize in any way. Just because you call something an apology in the title, doesn't magically convert your self-justification into an actual statement of remorse. — terdon 37 secs ago
Agree. After trying to vote up a question, which it turns out I had already upvoted, I remembered "hot meta network" had mentioned the change. Now, the state between "you've voted" and "you've not voted" is barely distinguishable with a slight difference on gray vs blue on very thin lines. Not impressed with the change in the least, UI people should leave well enough alone and not emulate Apple and its ever-changing Music app. — Italian Philosophers 4 Monica 10 secs ago
@SurpriseDog STOP MESSING WITH THINGS! The website works fine, we don't need constant UI changes. So true that it bears repeating word for word. — Italian Philosophers 4 Monica 15 secs ago
@ShadowTheSpringWizard if other people end up editing it a lot, sure. (It's not like I'm getting rep for it: I'm already rep-capped for the foreseeable future.) But I do intend to maintain this answer myself, once I have recovered emotionally. — wizzwizz4 11 secs ago
The new voting buttons are objectively worse. I don't understand why this was done. — paradroid 21 secs ago
@terdon meta.stackexchange.com/questions/343890/… included a statement of apology ("I...apologize", though not quite as meaningful coming from someone who didn't do the things being apologized for, it was a nice gesture) and a commitment to involving the community in these sorts of things that's been, as outlined in this post, broken numerous times since. — Bryan Krause 50 secs ago
@Mithical oh, we can and should do worse than a "mod-only" strike. Users should join too. Stop answering, stop working on the review queues, let them realize that getting new question isn't that great if they are unreadable and unanswered... — SPArcheon 43 secs ago
@SPArcheon such wide user strike will not happen. Even during Monica there was vast number of users that haven't changed their interaction with the sites and I have a feeling that this time even mods and curators striking might not be enough. Back then there was still the need to maintain content quality (selling the company has not yet happened), and I don't think that quality matters any more. It will be just squeezing money as much as possible until everything completely falls apart, but at least numbers will be good while going all the way to hell. — Resistance Is Futile 20 secs ago
Sorry - it looks crap and belongs on something aimed at preschool. Is this a change that improves anything or have you run out of useful stuff do do? — Stu 41 secs ago
@paradroid To be frank, I dislike them everywhere, but they’re especially terrible on meta sites. — Thomas Markov 57 secs ago
Isn't grey meant for disabled buttons? The button is not disabled: you can click it again to undo the vote. (And I think the only reason the circle border goes darker is because it would disappear against the grey.) — Andrew Morton 41 secs ago
@ShadowTheSpringWizard I can just imagine the meeting where someone pointed out that community moderation is going to mass-delete their fancy new "suggested" titles if they fail to pass for human, majorly embarrassing them in front of the "AI" crowd they're clearly courting. — Willa 19 secs ago
@ThomasMarkov I'm not saying it was great before (although on SO we got orange for the vote we'd used where applicable), but if they're trying to make an improvement, greying out what is now the background of the button is diametrically opposed to that. At least here it went blue. — Andrew Morton 35 secs ago
FWIW My stack app / user script restores the old vote buttons, network-wide: stackapps.com/questions/9443/… — TylerH 42 secs ago
I mean, the momentum has been in a rather unfortunate direction as of late, at least on SO. — Kevin B 19 secs ago
@Willa meeting? I wish. More likely a note "Make sure those mods don't interfere with our plans" and that was it. slol (sad lol) — Shadow The Spring Wizard 16 secs ago
There is already a Stack App (by me) that does this -- stackapps.com/questions/9443/… (although it sets the color to the same value regardless of theme). — TylerH 40 secs ago
@Bacco well, enough ants can carry an elephant. In theory. ;-) — Shadow The Spring Wizard 10 secs ago
See also this user style I wrote last year to address this: stackapps.com/questions/9443 originally it was SO only but I've updated it now to apply to all network sites. — TylerH 37 secs ago
@KevinB it will have fancy new buttons, that nobody will be using. That fake increase they're talking about it for one single reason: it's new, it's exciting, like couple in the beginning of the relationship. Once it fades, nothing will be left. — Shadow The Spring Wizard 33 secs ago
7:02 PM
That last paragraph is the long-term plan. Milk the platform for all it's worth, then move on to the next platform to "monetize". — S.L. Barth 8 secs ago
Calling single character edits trivial shows you are generally in opposition of such thing. So think more about the OP's concerns. Think more about a code in Stackoverflow that doesn't work if it is misspelled just by one letter. — Snack Exchange 43 secs ago
There is a user-script/style workaround if you are so inclined meta.stackexchange.com/questions/389564/… — Timothy G. 47 secs ago
SO basically, they are expert at following hypetrains and trends (eg: "the big guys are doing it, let's go!"). aka
they have no clue what the company actually does. @ShadowTheSpringWizard this feels dystopian when this is fully spelled out — Nord The Star Wizard 23 secs agoSure, the company had a string of rather negatively received announcements lately, but that doesn't mean that much has changed. The network does still function more or less exactly the way they functioned last year. Why now the big outcry? And what exactly is the criticism? Some ominous moderator rules that may or may not impact the content. And a general disconnect and feeling of neglect. But isn't this almost the same everywhere? Why expecting more from Stackoverflow than from others? And laying off staff is probably nothing that the company does to hurt the community. So what's new now? — Trilarion 30 secs ago
@αλεχολυτ It should be up already, barring no unexpected failures in the string extraction process. — Adam Lear ♦ 49 secs ago
It can't be ready, since I just translated the string ) One more thing here: I see there is much complicated interface for review queue ban, but I'm pretty sure it almost never used on ruSO. Do you know the history about that tool? — αλεχολυτ 47 secs ago
"...while going all the way to hell." Any estimation of how long that might take? And please don't say 6-8 weeks. My personal impression is that we can go on like this (not totally good not totally bad) for almost indefinitely unless something better comes up. — Trilarion 38 secs ago
How do you address the concerns some communities, especially academic ones have around this rule with regards to their plagiarism policy. This policy makes it essentially impossible to treat AI-authored content as plagiarism as no acceptable method exists to identify it. — Mad Scientist 6 secs ago
Can we please have concrete numbers for the "unacceptably high false positive rate" from your research? — E_net4 27 secs ago
Among other problems, this post needs a clear statement of what the guidance is, i.e. "AI-generated posts are allowed as long as they meet other post quidelines." — Ward - Reinstate Monica 55 secs ago
It's been over a year and still no answers! Someone pls tell us what the holes are for! 🙏 — SurpriseDog 1 min ago
Incorrect grammar (run-on sentence). Better: Earlier this week, Stack Exchange released guidance to moderators on how to moderate AI Generated content. What does this guidance include? — toolic 8 secs ago
@E_net4 We mods didn't even get them. That said, they ran it on old questions, proving that there's a bias in the detectors. However, they've never run any actual checks to prove that there is a false positive rate in suspensions, as most suspensions do not rely only on the output of GPT detectors. They've been bashed for this internally, and have so far ignored that feedback — Zoe stands with Ukraine 20 secs ago
@Trilarion I would guess it would take years. Decline is already happening (talking from my SO experience), but it is a slow process and some tags may suffer more than others. — Resistance Is Futile 52 secs ago
"In order to help mitigate the issue, we've asked moderators to apply a very strict standard of evidence to determining whether a post is AI-authored when deciding to suspend a user." The guidance I have received is: "We are now asking you to stop [...] suspending due to AI-generated content in general". How do I reconcile these two statements? — Andy 1 min ago
"We've reminded moderators that [...]Therefore, we are not confident that either GPT detectors or best-guess heuristics can be used to definitively identify suspicious content for the purposes of suspension." This is exactly why SO had the policy of ChatGPT being banned... because one can't rely on anything about it being accurate. This is exactly the danger of "AI" and this policy seems counterintuitive because it seems to invite more "AI" into the site instead of less. — TylerH 26 secs ago
This announcement obfuscates that all but the worst AI-authored posts are now allowed and mods are explicity forbidden from acting on them with the justification that they are AI-authored. Our low quality rules intentionally only cover quite terrible content, anything that meets that low bar cannot be effectively moderated anymore. — Mad Scientist 1 min ago
(Cont'd) The policy should reflect a restriction in suspensions by moderators, but should not attempt to affect the acceptability of AI or suspected AI authored content in posts. That is the critical failing of this decision IMHO. — TylerH 40 secs ago
Without answers this question might attract DVs. Maybe better post FAQ style questions simultaneously with answers. — Trilarion 49 secs ago
@KevinB Correct. SE no longer cares about AI content polluting the site, because their stats are dropping thanks to CGPT being an active competitor — Zoe stands with Ukraine 1 min ago
For everyone else equally infuriated by this decision, strike discussions have started up. — Zoe stands with Ukraine 7 secs ago
@Andy (and Philippe), we were not "asked", we were "required". I don't know why Philippe is suddenly turning into a spin doctor here, and I am guessing this isn't his choice, but let's be very clear: we were not asked, we were required and told what to do. That is a very significant difference. — terdon 28 secs ago
8:29 PM
Please upvote this. Downvote the answer all you want, but the question should remain on the front page. — terdon 7 secs ago
@terdon: That'd mean that this would belong in a blog post rather than here on Meta Stack Exchange. If we're voting on it, then we're tacitly discussing the quality of the policy, which is not a very good or agreeable policy. I have no intent on upvoting this question just because it's related to policy; it's up to the company to make the conversation inviting and the policy open for discussion/feedback. — Makoto 11 secs ago
Thanks for bringing this to our attention. This is not by design - we'll work on a solution in the near future and update the post here once we've addressed it. — Catija ♦ 59 secs ago
@Makoto since this has been posted as a Q&A, we can vote on the A and Q separately. The Q is fine, had it not been posted by a member of staff it would have been upvoted. It's the answer we have issues with. — terdon 41 secs ago
We moderators have been assured that there are distressing "indicators" that our handling of suspensions has been suboptimal. This answer would be substantially improved with concrete exposition of those indicators and how they are unfair to community members or harm Stack Overflow's business interests. — Ian Campbell 56 secs ago
@αλεχολυτ Ahh I see, I thought you meant "will wait for the next build to check Traducir" for some reason. :) As for the tool itself, the current UI was part of the work done on review queues back in 2020: meta.stackexchange.com/questions/356377/… — Adam Lear ♦ 25 secs ago
The argument of RockPaper is interesting. The point is not that upvoting should be the determined by kindness, of course it must depend on the quality of the question/answer, but the atmosphere of a site also determines the quality of participation. If you feel that the site is unfriendly, you don't feel involved, you don't like to collaborate, you could be unwilling to make the effort of thinking about a post and evaluate it. You can just think: "I'm not interested in collaborating to such site", you are demotivated. The vibe affects the behavior, it is a law of human psychology. — BakerStreet 56 secs ago
I downvoted this question itself, simply because I'm angry at the way that the situation was handled, and because I disagree with everything that's happened so far. The post speaks for itself, and deserves votes based on this. — Andreas detests censorship 40 secs ago
Strange answer, I guess lets just escalade ChatGPT's flag to CM. The ultimate goal is, why SE dont create a ChatGPT detection tool for mod to use and base their decision off it. — yagmoth555 53 secs ago
"Finally, internal evidence strongly suggests that the overapplication of suspensions for AI-generated content may be turning away a large number of legitimate contributors to the site." It is not legitimate to pollute these sites with AI generated garbage. — Andreas detests censorship 1 min ago
You seem to be completely oblivious of how we actually moderate AI content. I suggest you actually come talk to us, the moderators, and look into the chat rooms we use for this curation, to understand that we are reasonable in our moderation efforts, and we don't just throw around accusations and suspensions without being on steady ground. — Andreas detests censorship 15 secs ago
If SE want us, moderator, to use the site they want us to use to detect ChatGPT's answer, why they dont create a mod tool that would dig the ChatGPT's score of a post. I point that as it's unhandlable on a mobile and it's really time consumming to do. — yagmoth555 47 secs ago
Welcome to Meta Stack Exchange, Ouss! I can see that you've put this into an AI chatbot and copy-pasted the response. This question is serving as a bug report about a problem with the Stack Exchange site, and your post does not constitute an acceptable answer to the question. See: How do I answer a bug report? — Spevacus 8 secs ago
@yagmoth555 what does that have to do with this answer post? also, you seem to have misunderstood what's happening here. SE is banning mods from using scanners. Not encouraging/empowering them to. — starball 31 secs ago
I have yet to see you actually interact with us over this, and draw any sort of explanation and understanding from us at all. This is a huge insult. — Andreas detests censorship 22 secs ago
@Andreasdetestscensorship Also worth noting that they've gotten mountains of feedback pointing out all of this, and have ignored all of it. They know it isn't how we operate, they've been told that AI content isn't reliable, but it doesn't matter to them anymore. They've provided some surface-level stats internally, but none showing that the FP rate exists in suspensions, nor any stats to back up any of their other claims — Zoe stands with Ukraine 7 secs ago
@terdon Yes, on meta it's okay to use voting for agreement/disagreement only for answers, not for questions, but people never really went with it. Many a fine question are downvoted because they didn't fit the mood. It's kind of the bad side of the community. However, I wished this question would give more context. Why did SO release guidance? Why is it released here now? What kind of input is expected from the community? — Trilarion 20 secs ago
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