Tavern on the Meta

@ShadowWizard I can abandon my nice comment then....

@Meta yep, weird. Will post a comment reply to him.

@rene not yet, looks like it's borked :(

Derpy

2:32 PM

@ShadowWizard you should really go to the sandbox.

user315433

@ShadowWizard The accuracy of "we offer" is not too bad - it only matches in titles - and I'll add a negative lookbehind to exclude "can we offer" and "should we offer".

@Derpy hmm? Where, chat?

@Meta OK, better than nothing... thanks!

using 1 rep sock

Q: Users with 1 rep can't view any questions here on MSE

2:52 PM

@Nick @balpha @Shog9 sorry to bother but this is a really big bug:

4

Trying to view questions with a 1 rep sock I have resulted in the Something Bad Happened: Can this please be fixed?

It means anyone clicking that new notification reach the Error page. Not a pleasant experience.

And when trying to report it...

> You must have at least 2 reputation to ask a question.

balpha

@ShadowWizard ack

user315433

So at least that last part is by design. Have you tried posting an answer?

user202362

how do the new users get the 2nd rep if they can't answer a question and can't ask a question?

@Meta you mean with JS hack? Not yet.

@ShadowWizard please don't fix, instead push that to all sites and let us clear the existing queues first ....

user315433

2:54 PM

Oh. Of course posting answers without seeing questons is hard.

@Telkitty suggested edits on tag-wikis?

user202362

like a new user would know what ...

You ask a question, I answer. What do you expect? ;)

@balpha just in case you missed it, Tim Post tweaked the setting in MSE:

Note - we raised the minimum rep to ask to 2 from 1 (which should be just enough friction to slow this down) for the next few days. That said, yeah, we're very interested in finding out why that became such a high pressure fire hose. My guess is, people didn't realize that they changed sites after getting the inbox (and possibly email) notification, then proceeded to do what they came to SO to do, which was ask a programming question. I think that explains the majority of cases here, not many were blocked on SO. But we're digging. — Tim Post ♦ 1 hour ago

Might be related. (and help you fix it faster :))

balpha

oh I know, thanks :)

Nick is working on it

2:57 PM

Good, so it means maximum 6-8 minutes fix. Thanks!

@rene lol, start a feature request.... :-D

user202362

Haxxx

user202362

In this place, we routinely engineer hacks to quickly patch up the code

user202362

:p

user202362

j/k

3:14 PM

Guess I can call this a day. Cya!

3:24 PM

bye @ShadowWizard thanks for your close/delete voting and bug hunting skills

... only to see them downvoted and unceremoniously deleted. Do we organize a party so we can ceremoniously delete questions?

Derpy

@balpha just to know. It is expected for image onebox to work on message replies but not on user pings?

balpha

yes

Derpy

;_;

ProgramFOX

@ShadowWizard I didn't add it but I would not say that this would be a problematic keyword. If it turns out to give too many FPs, we'll remove it.

SmokeDetector

3:40 PM

[ SmokeDetector ] Bad keyword in body: How to list multiple purposes for an action? by KatieM459 on japanese.stackexchange.com …

[ SmokeDetector ] All of this user's posts are spam: user 6233623 on stackoverflow.com

Andrew T.

@SmokeDetector f

user315433

> a slightly more clever solution next time we need to push a post into everyone's inbox.

user315433

Probably won't happen for a few more years, but pointing to a blog post with locked comments and a link to Meta-discussion post at the end would probably work.

user315433

@ProgramFOX All FPs so far were (can|should) we offer; the lookbehind I added excludes those now.

ProgramFOX

cool

user315433

3:54 PM

Poor Programmers site isn't forgotten...

user315433

Just a note - We're going to be meeting early next week to talk about this, and probably come back with some more questions. The change isn't off the table, but it's got to be comprehensive and pretty surgical. A more appropriate name would let you cut the giant list of stuff not to ask pretty significantly, it's not a horrible idea. We also need to make sure everyone's expectations of what this change might bring are aligned and realistic. Anyway, stay tuned. — Tim Post ♦ 8 hours ago

user315433

user315433

The topbar is confusing now.

Jon Ericson

@Meta Needz more META!

@Meta I don't see that. Are you on mobile or something?

user315433

@JonEricson It's on SE/filters, stackexchange.com/filters/197584/all-metas

user315433

3:59 PM

"All metas" filter, I might add.

user315433

Marking down "tour" and "about us" as possible usernames for the future.

Jon Ericson

@Meta Ah. I need more coffee.

Glad there's a meta link there. Is that new? I don't remember it.

!!/coffee for Jon

SmokeDetector

@rene brews coffee for @rene

hands over coffee

user315433

4:10 PM

Pretty sure the meta link was there for a long time, as a part of imitation-topbar for stackexchange.com domain

Oded

5:08 PM

@ShadowWizard went well. Lots of questions asked, had a queue of people afterwards...

Congrats! See, that went easy.

SmokeDetector

6:02 PM

[ SmokeDetector ] Manually reported answer: How to remove the Destination parameter from an URL in Drupal 7? by Kent on drupal.stackexchange.com …

user315433

Nice idea: Give a warning to users on retagging sprees by S.L. Barth on meta.stackexchange.com

6:22 PM

@Meta That's a horrible idea :-P

But seriously... it seems that the number of edit suggestions on SO is extremely high lately.

user315433

Rejected edit should be -5 rep.

I've been thinking about rep penalties voor robo reviewers.

The reviewers are the problem. They are the ones who should guide the editors.

Bart

^

6:58 PM

i dunno about a -5 penalty, that seems harsh.

but maybe for every rejected edit, you have to do a good one for free before you get any more rep :)

@KutuluMike A bit like the Nice/Good/Great Question/Answer badges.

When your post goes below the threshold for any of these badges, you don't get a new one if another post crosses the threshold.

Instead it's re-assigned to the new Nice/Good/Great post.

7:14 PM

I actually do like the idea of warning users who retag a lot.

we had this problem on SF/F on a regular basis, and the best we could do was try to get a moderator to ping them from chat.

since somehow, retagging a question is considered as significant an edit as rewriting it from scratch, and thus bumps it back to the top of the default front page view.

Yeah... I miss the time when retagging was a separate privilege.

the privilege thing isn't as big an issue for me, it's the fact that someone who gets motivated to go clean up a tag will end up filling the entire front page with months-or-years old questions, mostly with answers, bumping all the new ones off where no one sees them.

feature-request suggested-edits rate-limiting

That's one of the problems, yes.

Maybe this could have helped:

66

Q: Rate limit suggested edits

We need a hard rate limit on suggested edits, to limit the damage someone can do with blasting the review queue with minor edit suggestions. Case in point: this user peppered the site with a whopping 133 tag-only edit suggestions in 2 hours and 15 minutes. That's one edit every minute on average...

Q: Can we make "non-substantive" edits fall off the front page faster than new questions?

maybe, except sometimes the user doing the tag edit has edit privs.

they just haven't ever been in chat or onto meta to talk about tag editing etiquette

I also suggested this a while back:

2

I know that requests for a "minor edit" option come up all the time and are routinely rejected, and for good reasons. (Details can be seen, among other places, at Could we have the ability to mark a change as minor in questions or answers?) On the other hand, we already have a concept of a "non-...

feature-request edits bump frontpage

7:29 PM

Interesting idea.

Funny how edits are about the only thing on Stack Exchange that aren't rate-limited.

user315433

I don't mind mass edits, if they are worthwhile (retagging can be). To the users who don't like front page flooded with edits, they give an incentive to learn about other tabs and sorts of navigation. Live and learn.

Q: Help us redesign the Stack Overflow homepage

The front page is also what non-members see first.

user315433

Okay, then it's also an incentive to design a smarter algorithm for the front page. Like, I don't know, maybe the one SO is using since 2010.

user315433

71

The homepage for all Stack Exchange sites is intentionally simple: it's a list of the last (n) questions by activity date. Activity date means new questions, or questions with new answers or new edits. This has worked reasonably well for the last two years, but it is breaking down on Stack Ov...

discussion stackoverflow homepage

7:48 PM

Well, in a sense @KutuluMike's proposal is a suggested change to the front page.

Does the SO staff get rep points and badges for implementing the changes? Because we know that nothing incentivizes people like rep and badges! :-P

@Meta this is the usual response whenever we complain about the edit bump behavior

the flaw in that logic is that the people who know enough to even think about edit bumps and other tabs and such, aren't the people who are being impacted in the first place.

I know I can swap tabs, but I could just as easily swap to a "recently edited" tab too.

casual users who just pop in once a day to scan for questions to answer don't think that far.

8:27 PM

@rene no problem, though I owe the bug report to meta.stackexchange.com/questions/278687/…, went to try and reproduce with a clean sock (my main sock has >100 rep by now) and the rest is history... :D