Tavern on the Meta

Mehrdad

12:00 AM

lolk

George Marian

That's ok, I missed it at first as well.

Mehrdad

Lol, I don't think I'm going to get it but glad it made you guys chuckle anyhow :]

Erick Robertson

Mehrdad, I've never met you before now.

George Marian

And, therein, lies the joke:

> @Mehrdad I already said that I'm sorry nine times, why do you have to drag everyone into this?

Erick Robertson

ucwutididthar?

Mehrdad

12:03 AM

lollyeah...

George Marian

lol

Mehrdad

Like*? lol

I guess I'll just post what I was gonna post then, we'll see how it goes

Okay, so I guess it should be self-explanatory, I'll try not to add much commentary.
First, see this post's comments: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/4764573/why-is-typedreference-behind-the-scenes-its-so-fast-and-safe-almost-magical
Then see this post: http://meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/89488/what-is-considered-too-localized
(Sorry it's a little long.)

George Marian

@Mehrdad Ok, so what am I missing?

Tyler Chacha

Hi

George Marian

@TylerChacha hola

Mehrdad

12:15 AM

hai :)

Moshe

Hey folks.

Mehrdad

@GeorgeMarian: Shouldn't be missing much I guess, if you read them (aside from a few removed comments in the first post)

Moshe

Sigh

George Marian

@Mehrdad I guess the suggestion from Earlz about chat would involve you chatting with the individual in question.

Mehrdad

@GeorgeMarian And then there's the most recent answer on my Meta question... I guess my question is (are?), (1) are those two posts related? (2) If so, .... any thoughts on how to make things better?

Tyler Chacha

12:16 AM

@Moshe louder sigh

Mehrdad

@GeorgeMarian: ... So you mean I should've invited him?

Moshe

@TylerChacha ugh. What's up?

George Marian

@Mehrdad Maybe? That depends on the other individual. You can reason with some people, but not with others.

Mehrdad

@GeorgeMarian: Haha okay then, thanks for advice. :)

George Marian

As for whether the two posts on your meta question are related: shrug. That newest one seems out of left field. Is that a quote from somewhere?

Mehrdad

12:19 AM

@GeorgeMarian: No I don't mean the two posts on the meta, I mean the last post on the Meta as compared to the original post on SO... hope it's not confusing

Moshe

@Tyler nice photos. That your cat?

Tyler Chacha

yes

I've posted them before

George Marian

@Mehrdad Is there a comment that I missed or something? How do you know that a specific individual is trying to close your questions as too localized?

Mehrdad

@GeorgeMarian: Well because there were comments which were later deleted by the individual (i.e. one of them specifically said, "closing as too localized")

George Marian

Ah, that'll do it.

Moshe

12:22 AM

Nice cat. We have a stray hanging around here. Not quite as clean or groomed.

Tyler Chacha

That would be the difference between New York and San Diego :)

Mehrdad

@GeorgeMarian: Yeah... idk what to do at the moment; I'm just getting annoyed a little bit more every time it happens (and the last answer on my Meta question didn't help :( )

Tyler Chacha

I love the smiley nested inside of parentheses...

Mehrdad

@TylerChacha: xkcd.com/541

George Marian

@Mehrdad Well, posting on MSO is a start. If it gets out of hand, I guess it may be a good idea to bring it to @RebeccaChernoff's attention. (Though, she's not the only employee that interfaces with the community.)

Mehrdad

12:27 AM

@GeorgeMarian: Okay, thanks for the info. :)

George Marian

considers a Wacom Bamboo tablet

Mehrdad

@GeorgeMarian: Funny, I just got one of those tablets yesterday...

George Marian

@Mehrdad Oh, yeah? Which one? Have you tried it yet?

Mehrdad

@GeorgeMarian: Yeah, I got a CTH-460

@GeorgeMarian I have mixed feelings about it... it's not quite like I expected (it's my first tablet)

George Marian

@Mehrdad I'm considering the CTH661, since I'm fairly sure I'd want the larger tablet.

I would love to go with an Intuos tablet, but I can't really justify the price.

Mehrdad

12:33 AM

@GeorgeMarian It's a bit difficult to work with in absolute positioning mode (probably I'm just not used to it yet), and in relative mode, it's also hard to use it because it's not like a mouse, where you can just move it as far as you want

George Marian

At least not for the larger sized ones.

Mehrdad

I haven't tried any other tablets so idk if this is good or bad haha

George Marian

I believe that issue would be the same w/ any tablet.

Mehrdad

@GeorgeMarian: Yeah, probably. Another issue is that when you click, it kinda "shivers" before coming down (naturally, since you can't hold it exactly straight)

so it can mess up some clicks.

George Marian

The big difference with the Intuos is more pressure sensitive levels (maybe) and certainly the fact that it accounts for the angle of the stylus. So, using airbrush tools take that into account.

Mehrdad

12:35 AM

@GeorgeMarian: Ah, really? I definitely think it would be better if it took account for the angle, that's probably my biggest problem with this right now

(and hence why it moves when I try to click)

George Marian

I'm mostly interested for drawing diagrams and some photo editing. But, I'm not a graphic designer, so payting 400-600+ is a stretch.

@Mehrdad Ah, when you click w/ the pen?

Mehrdad

@GeorgeMarian: Haha yeah, that's quite expensive :)
Yeah, when I click, it moves because my pen isn't exactly 90 degrees up

George Marian

I don't know that I'd use much for user input, though I would certainly want to avoid switching to the mouse when using it.

@Mehrdad That'll take some getting used to, but I don't think the Intuos would have any bearing on that.

Mehrdad

Yeah, exactly... it's easy to work with in some ways, but harder in others. I think it might just take a bit of getting used to, though idk if I'll ever be more comfortable with it than a touchpad (I have a laptop)

George Marian

The big difference with it taking into account the angle of the pen is that it should affect the airbrush tool in drawing/photo apps.

shudder I hate touchpads.

Mehrdad

12:39 AM

@GeorgeMarian: Oooh I see, okay. Yeah I guess it's just getting used to it then. :)
And haha no I love touchpads (although I like mice more!)

George Marian

I prefer the pointer ("nipple" as I always refer to it) thingmadong set into the keyboard.

Mehrdad

@GeorgeMarian: I hate those with a fiery passion... :[

or idk about the passion part... just fiery haha

George Marian

Heh, my finger does after prolonged use. But, I take that as a sign that it's time to take a break, or use a desktop/mouse. :)

Mehrdad

@GeorgeMarian: Yeah, true dat... my finger doesn't like clicking a touchpad's buttons either :\

George Marian

Generally speaking, laptops are ergonomic nightmares.

Mehrdad

12:43 AM

Hey guys. I got a notification for a couple chat notifications directed at "the other" Mehrdad :) Have we found a bug?

George Marian

@Mehrdad Nah, the @ used by the sender of the message wasn't specific enough.

Mehrdad

@Mehrdad: Haha hello! :)

George Marian

Tends to happen to me occasionally, as there are several Georges on the SE network.

Mehrdad

@GeorgeMarian but I wasn't even logged in into chat. How come it gave me a notification

@Mehrdad hi!

George Marian

Oh, hey. Apparently, I'm a guy like me.

@Mehrdad It'll notify you in the network wide inbox.

Mehrdad

12:45 AM

@Mehrdad: No idea how you got the notification, but I think it might be slightly related to you (because of that old C# question)... I guess this post should explain it?
http://meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/89488/what-is-considered-too-localized

Mehrdad

Interesting... apparently it takes into account the people who've participated in a certain question.

Mehrdad

Huh, interesting

George Marian

@Mehrdad Have you never been to chat before?

Tyler Chacha

Mehrdad

@GeorgeMarian: Nope, it's my first time (if you mean me... confused haha)

Mehrdad

12:46 AM

@GeorgeMarian Of course I've been here before :) but I don't think I was logged in to chat at the time that message was sent.

George Marian

@Mehrdad He, no the other one. :) If you hover over the message, it'll highlight the message that is replying to.

Mehrdad

@Mehrdad: Basically, I have no idea why Hans is continuing the stuff that happened in that SO post a few months ago (in my TypedReference, if you recall) until now... hence my post on Meta, and his reply

@GeorgeMarian: Ah, did not know that, cool :]

George Marian

So, messages w/ the little arrow on the left, are replies to a specific message.

Mehrdad

@GeorgeMarian: It's cool but it gets confusing too (like right now) haha

Mehrdad

@Mehrdad not trying to create a conspiracy theory but could it be because he still assumes you are a sockpuppet account of mine?

George Marian

12:48 AM

@Mehrdad Ok, that's why you got the notifications. If you were never active in chat, you wouldn't get the notifications. Now, you'll both get pinged for each other's notifications (accept direct replies).

Trufa

ME NO GET FLAG WEIGHT TO 500.

bad mod! bad!

Mehrdad

@Mehrdad: Haha that's what I thought too, but I'd imagine he would've known by now... idk

George Marian

@Trufa Stop flagging poorly. ;)

Trufa

@GeorgeMarian i was on a role

in 5 or 6 days

went up 150 points or so

George Marian

@Trufa Two steps forward, one step back. :)

Mehrdad

12:49 AM

@Trufa: Did you mean: roll

George Marian

drool wacom.com/en/Products/Intuos/Intuos4Large.aspx

Mehrdad

@GeorgeMarian: lol, don't drool

Mehrdad

I dunno... the incident is interesting to watch nonetheless

George Marian

@Mehrdad Have you checked the link? 12.8" x 8.0" active area, 2048 pressure levels & +- 60 degrees of tilt sensitivity.

$470, though. =(

Mehrdad

@Mehrdad: Haha yeah I guess
@GeorgeMarian: I didn't read the specs, no... that looks pretty nice

but haha yeah the price... not so much xD

Apparently I earned the Citizen Patrol badge on MSO, lol...

George Marian

12:53 AM

The medium sized one is about the same size as the large Bamboo that I'm considering. $200 vs $350 I could potentially be happy with that size. Regardless though, I could barely justify the Bamboo at this point in time.

Trufa

@GeorgeMarian I was only 5 away :(

George Marian

@Mehrdad heh

@Trufa Awww....

Trufa

@GeorgeMarian where is that image with monkey moderators

George Marian

@Trufa Ummm... Hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil?

Mehrdad

@GeorgeMarian: Btw, I tried playing Call of Duty with my tablet
and amazingly, I did better than with a mouse :O

George Marian

12:54 AM

@Trufa I'm not exactly sure I'm aware of this pic.

@Mehrdad WOW

Mehrdad

@GeorgeMarian: (Pssst: I'm pretty bad with both... but don't tell anyone)

Trufa

@GeorgeMarian hehe it is the one that says moderators are just monkeys with guns :)

George Marian

I used to have this wonderful Logitech Trackball, that they don't make anymore. I tried with games and it didn't work so well. But it was great in Photoshop.

Trufa

I think it was @drachenstern 's

Well have to leave now

George Marian

@Trufa see ya

Trufa

12:56 AM

see you all nlater!

Mehrdad

@GeorgeMarian: interesting
@Trufa: Cya!

George Marian

@Mehrdad Heh. I'm fairly mediocre, usually in the middle of the pack.

Mehrdad

@GeorgeMarian: For me it's basically the graphical version of this: xkcd.com/91

George Marian

amazon.com/Logitech-TrackMan-Marble-FX-Trackball/dp/B00000JBUI

Oh, how I miss thee...

Mehrdad

lol

George Marian

12:57 AM

It needs the full URL, heh.

Mehrdad

@GeorgeMarian: Yeah haha too lazy xD

George Marian

lol

OMG. The prices on that TrackMan, for used ones....

If that doesn't say there's demand for it, I don't what does. Dang it Logitech!

Mehrdad

haha

aw I gotta go :(
nice talking to you all! :)

George Marian

@Mehrdad see ya around

Mehrdad

cya!

Michael Petrotta

1:15 AM

Chat is so quiet recently.

George Marian

@MichaelPetrotta It wasn't so quite a little while ago. Though, I agree. Overall, it's been quiet for several weeks now.

Moshe

1:28 AM

Ill second that. I've been conplaining about the quiet for a while.

Michael Petrotta

Complain about it often enough, and the problem will solve itself :)

Moshe

@MichaelPetrotta indeed. But where have you been?

Michael Petrotta

in China.

Moshe

Oh?

Michael Petrotta

On my company's factory floor, troubleshooting.

George Marian

1:30 AM

@MichaelPetrotta lol

Moshe

Well inthink the problem is a result of some people being busy (Josh's move etc) and Rchern's getting hired by the chat room

Michael Petrotta

In a giant, cosmopolitan city of tens of millions, that'd I'd never heard of before. China's weird.

Moshe

I have a friend who can speak and understand Chinese rather well, although my perception of his skill is meaningless, considering my absolute genius in Chinese language, at the moment.

Ok. I'm going to add to the problem of quiet. Tshüß

Michael Petrotta

sababa.

Moshe

Actually I just noticed. I think the tavern has fragmented. The same people are in several rooms. You need to know where to find everyone.

Okay, now for real.

presses home key

Michael Petrotta

1:35 AM

You're still here, Moshe, aren't you?

guess not.

drachenstern

1:50 AM

I'll just leave that right there

Michael Petrotta

Moderation on SO is, on the whole, great. I get glimpses of moderation on some other sites cough physics cough math*, and... I'm grateful for SO.

drachenstern

@GeorgeMarian I'm terribly sorry. I tried having a "life". I promise to reverse that trend

George Marian

LOL I'm sure that won't be difficult. ;)

drachenstern

@Moshe Yeah, I don't understand that. We only need really one room on meta.

George Marian

There are other rooms on meta?

drachenstern

1:56 AM

Apparently.

Also, I need to put this in the text somewhere so it's greppable later

modraters are just monkeys who has guns in there hands and I'll put in an extra modrators for good measure

So how does one go about using authentication and authorization with RESTful webservers?

George Marian

Ah, yes. Good idea. I also saved a copy.

@drachenstern BTW, someone has suggested a possibly simpler solution to that amateur plumber problem.

drachenstern

I tried to convey that particular one hours ago in the chat... lemme find that ...

George Marian

Oh, yah. I remember it now.

I had interpreted it differently.

drachenstern

5 hours ago, by drachenstern

@TimStone that was my thought too. Alternately figure out how to splice that new piece into the long run using a coupler and put the "drain" piece on top so it drops down in.

Yeah, so I just figured everyone was saying that was no good :p

the problem is that those appear to be two different wall thicknesses which is probably going to give fits elsewhere

I like installing a new piece instead.

George Marian

Well, there doesn't seem to be anything special about that adapter, so the biggest issue would be avoiding backwash.

@drachenstern Fair enough. I could likely do something like this myself, but I'd have to study the problem and possible solutions first.

drachenstern

2:06 AM

Yeah, I concur. I don't think it would be a problem, hence it was my first solution.

George Marian

I had no idea what to call the slip nut. heh

drachenstern

I just think it would make more sense in the long run to have the two pipes

George Marian

Well, other than a nut.

@drachenstern Possibly, but that does take up more space.

drachenstern

@GeorgeMarian That sounds like a poor argument.

George Marian

@drachenstern How so? My garbage can fits into that space in my kitchen. :)

drachenstern

2:08 AM

@GeorgeMarian mine doesn't. Mine fits in on the side where there aren't already existing pipes. The place where the pipes are is where I put my chemicals.

Also, how odd is it that almost everyone puts their trashcan underneath the sink?

George Marian

Right, but a second trap would take up that space. :P

xiaohouzi79

Hi, hoping someone can help me with the gravatar implementation on SO. The gravatar is built on a hash of an email address.

Michael Petrotta

@drachenstern: Things that make you go hmmm

xiaohouzi79

I know there is an email field, but what happens for users who sign on with their open-id, this doesn't get populated auto when a user signs on right? So how are the gravatar hashes generated for these users?

George Marian

@drachenstern It's not odd at all. It usually the part of the cabinets w/ the least/worst finish and it's a good place to throw things out while doing dishes.

drachenstern

2:09 AM

@GeorgeMarian hence I said to put it in under the existing trap :p

@xiaohouzi79 it's random

To be clearer: a random hash is generated when you don't supply an email address that can be hashed. That hash is stored.

George Marian

@drachenstern Needs moar FHC, I say. ;)

xiaohouzi79

i don't know enough about md5, is it super random enough to avoid clashes with an existing hash?

or is do they use the 404 to check if there is a clash and have a fallback?

by 404, if mean the d=404 in the gravatar URL

drachenstern

@xiaohouzi79 so how do you define "avoid clashes with an existing hash"? There is a way to generate two phrases with the same hash, but that's for a particularly long version of "phrase"

@xiaohouzi79 no.

xiaohouzi79

@drachenstern - What I mean is, if someone randomly had the same hash as mine in the current SO implementation they would end up with my gravatar image right?

drachenstern

So the way it works is that the "default" gravatar is an algorithm. You either store a picture or the hash dictates the anonymous image that is returned.

xiaohouzi79

2:12 AM

so is there anything in place to avoid this?

drachenstern

@xiaohouzi79 yes.

Michael Petrotta

@xiaohouzi79: Why would that matter?

drachenstern

@xiaohouzi79 you really need to learn about MD5

8

Q: Create your own MD5 collisions

I'm doing a presentation on MD5 collisions and I'd like to give people any idea how likely a collision is. It would be good to have two blocks of text which hash to the same thing, and explain how many combinations of [a-zA-Z ] were needed before I hit a collision. The obvious answer is hash ev...

Tyler Chacha

and we're back!

How is everyone doing?

drachenstern

@TylerChacha and hello again

@TylerChacha pretty good. mulling choices for dinner

Tyler Chacha

2:14 AM

@drachenstern Isn't it like .. 9pm where you are?

drachenstern

perhaps ;)

George Marian

@TylerChacha Contemplating heading to Starbucks to get me some coffee, since it's such a beautiful day today. That way, I can say that I've been outside today. :)

Tyler Chacha

@GeorgeMarian Isn't it like ... 10pm where you are?

George Marian

Just past 7 PM. What's your point? :D

xiaohouzi79

@MichaelPetrotta - With the current implementation we are not all just using random squiggles, the problem I see is on the off chance that someone expects to see a pattern and instead sees an image that belongs to someone else.

Tyler Chacha

2:15 AM

I always imagined you lived on the East Coast...

George Marian

I used to live there, so you're not far off.

xiaohouzi79

@MichaelPetrotta - In the grand scheme of things it's not devestating. I assume its also highly unlikely, but it's not impossible

Hogan

One day to go.....

George Marian

I've kinda ping-ponged across the country a bit.

Michael Petrotta

@xiaohouzi79: I think I misunderstood the concern. Nevermind me...

Hogan

2:16 AM

I'm getting the gold badge tingle already :P

Tyler Chacha

@Hogan I just used a plugin that checked my score everyday. Got it on all 4 trilogy sites..

drachenstern

@xiaohouzi79 So this is a known problem with gravatar images, but the thing is that it's highly unlikely to be a problem.

George Marian

Alright, be back in like 30 mins. I'm heading out before I remember that's a lot of money to pay for a coffee. :)

Hogan

@TylerChacha This is thru hard work and dedication (and having Chrome remember what tabs I had open).

drachenstern

People would have to TRY to cause a collision, and it would take a just so crafted string.

Tyler Chacha

2:18 AM

@Hogan Hard work and dedication are over rated...

xiaohouzi79

Thanks all, I think that answers my main question: users without emails have their hash generated based on some algorithm and it's highly unlikely.

Tyler Chacha

I got interviewed the other day...

xiaohouzi79

that a collision will occur

drachenstern

Things which rely on random chance (meaning if they are not TRYING to cause a collision) would cause a collision on roughly 2^63 random occurrences, or something close to that.

Tyler Chacha

vimeo.com/23095310?ab

You can see my beautiful face..

drachenstern

2:19 AM

wait, that doesn't make sense, nevermind

xiaohouzi79

i think i read somewhere in one of the answer that it was previously based on ip address and some other detail

drachenstern

I believe that's very probably

xiaohouzi79

but that was posted a couple of years ago

Tyler Chacha

After watching that, whenever you talk to me you'll imagine me in my beret and headset, staring menacingly at you..

drachenstern

IP and userid and timestamp would be likely

xiaohouzi79

2:20 AM

09

Hogan

@TylerChacha Woah... what was with that first "good"? Dry mouth?

xiaohouzi79

ok, thanks all!!!

drachenstern

@xiaohouzi79 yeah but that's the sort of thing that doesn't change

@xiaohouzi79 best of luck

xiaohouzi79

ok, cheers

Michael Petrotta

like the kitty potty behind you, @TylerChacha

(wait, nevermind...)

Hogan

2:20 AM

@TylerChacha wait... I have the same rug!

Tyler Chacha

@MichaelPetrotta Actually, you can see it, but it isn't what you think..

it is the big carpetted box against the wall

Michael Petrotta

now I must know.

Tyler Chacha

not the cardboard thing in the middle of the room

the grey box with the brown cat

Michael Petrotta

got it.

Tyler Chacha

That box is a box from Costco that my Mom thought made a perfect house for one of our cats...

put a little rug in it, the cat slept there for several days and then retired to its normal bed

the guy is trying to get a site started where he interviews lots of startups and teen entrepreneurs and stuff

For some reason he picked me first..

I think I might start to become active on Cooking.SE

It makes me hungry

drachenstern

2:40 AM

wtf is Obama about to get on the news about?

Tyler Chacha

no idea

drachenstern

President Obama to speak about Osama bin Laden - NBC News http://on.msnbc.com/lydMNg

Tweeted by BreakingNews on May 2, 2011 at 2:42 AM

Tyler Chacha

o.. that's convenient...

Tim Stone

2:57 AM

►

George Marian

@drachenstern "We still have no idea where he is. That is all."

@TimStone LOL

drachenstern

lulz

random

3:10 AM

2003 Mission Accomplished speech

"Mission Accomplished" refers to a banner titled "Mission Accomplished" that was displayed on the aircraft carrier USS Abraham Lincoln during a televised address by United States President George W. Bush on May 1, 2003 and the controversy that followed. The speech was not actually titled "Mission Accomplished". Bush stated at the time that this was the end to major combat operations in Iraq. While this statement did coincide with an end to the conventional phase of the war, Bush's assertion — and the sign itself — became controversial after guerrilla warfare in Iraq increased during the...

Tyler Chacha

3:33 AM

Apparently Usama is Dead...

drachenstern

@TylerChacha you're just now getting here huh?

he's on

Tyler Chacha

just in time for Cinco de Mayo :)

Tyler Chacha

4:08 AM

I think Osama let himself get caught in an elaborate attempt to shut down the internet due to all of the people posting about him dying.

drachenstern