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04:13

They originally came here to try to investigate our chemtrail technology, and got increasingly frustrated when all their samples turned out to just be water ice with trace amounts of jet exhaust.

Journeyman Geek

04:56

→ 4 messages moved to Chimney

Andreas moved to Codidact

4 chimneys moved to the ground

Journeyman Geek

→ 1 Andreas moved to Codidact

4

Andreas moved to Codidact

05:12

>:(

SPArcheon

08:33

playing devil advocate, I will again point out that you folks (as in- the company, nothing personal here) are **SERIOUSLY** underestimating the "resentment" some past actions have brought in the userbase. Sadly we are at a point where users simply no longer trust the company to work in the interest of the users and the old purpose the network had under Joel/Jeff
Furthermore, a post like that one achieves mostly nothing for a simple reason: the "resentment" has never been about "devs". Basically, even if you spend some time fixing bug or reviewing old request it gets you mostly... nothing, b…

Don't get me wrong, the idea is good, but if you want to see some better results, I suggest you focus on things that give the idea that moderation is getting some love&care.

Journeyman Geek

09:05

@SPArcheon with your recent post - I feel like examples of what you actually get and what needs doing (adding a ! in front automagically) might be handy...

I suspect a lot of folks in the company don't use SE chat :D

SPArcheon

09:54

@JourneymanGeek ? If you mean the "things that give the idea that moderation is getting some love&care" I think there are better ones to tell them that then me.

Journeyman Geek

I mean the post about webm support being a bit... lacking !

trust me. The community managers and staff are probably a little too familiar with my barking :D

SPArcheon

@JourneymanGeek you mean that pointing out that webp images not getting automatically displayed/oneboxed is not enough?

Journeyman Geek

I'd say a more detailed bug report would be good

its less "they're not displayed" than "the upload generates markdown that lacks a ! to make it an embedded image

I'm being pedantic, but this is meta :D

SPArcheon

@JourneymanGeek you assume I went checking how the normal oneboxing works.

Journeyman Geek

I did not, Sonic checked how the normal unboxing works :D

see the two starred webps :D

SPArcheon

09:59

Instead, I am currently doing fiendish rituals with Power Automate desktop rpa

Journeyman Geek

lol

I like PAD. it saved me a few hours a night working with the unholy mess that was our reporting system

"You take this email, which contains a html file pretending to be an xls file, tell excel to open it anyway, copy and paste it to this pivot table, take a screenshot..."

SPArcheon

@JourneymanGeek Also, I am not sure I follow the reasoning here...

Journeyman Geek

@SPArcheon its a better bug report

fine, I'll thanos it

i.sstatic.net/oTPx5HhA.webp

The first is what happens when you upload a webp. The second is the intended result - also a webp, but the URL has a ! in front

balpha

oh that's interesting, that should be a quick fix

SPArcheon

@JourneymanGeek yep, you assumed I know about that.

Fine, as a compensation I will assume you enjoy ponies references :P

Journeyman Geek

10:06

@balpha people get mad at me when I say that :D

@SPArcheon actually I didn't - I assumed no one would know that. I know I didn't

Shadow Wizard

@balpha should

Journeyman Geek

@balpha does. He might also know what evil lurks in the hearts of men.

Shadow Wizard

And you're not working on chat anymore, so... can't see it happening any time soon. :/

(or late.)

Journeyman Geek

@ShadowWizard tbf, chat's not been actively worked on for ages, and people forget things.

Like where my keys are

SPArcheon

@JourneymanGeek now please repeat this while dressed as Leonidas I.

shouting would also be nice.

Journeyman Geek

10:15

SPArcheon

@JourneymanGeek a little small but appreciated.

balpha

Ok, .webp images are now oneboxed automatically. Is there a meta post somewhere where I can catch some sweet rep? 😁

Journeyman Geek

yup

1

Q: Incomplete support for webp images on chat

Recently support was added for webp images across all the network. Yet, chat was left out. As a result, webp images used in chat do not get oneboxed like other images. I don't know if this is a small change or something that would require a complete rewrite of the chat picture oneboxing feature (...

can confirm it works correctly

balpha

0

A: Incomplete support for webp images on chat

I don't know if this is a small change No, it's not. It is two small changes 😄 I had to add webp to two lists of image extensions: In the front-end code so you get the three little blinking dots when you post a link with that extension, and in the backend code so that it actually gets oneboxed...

Shadow Wizard

show off

:-D

Just say it, you want moar repz! :P

Well, you have less than me somehow, I have to fix that.

-500/+500... hmm... would take 6-8 of those....

Journeyman Geek

10:30

lol

balpha

@ShadowWizard Actually I am working in chat right now, which is why I already had it open.

(not working on features though, to be clear -- but this was a real quickfix)

Mithical

@balpha Not on features... so on bugs? :P

balpha

Chat has no bugs

8

Only missing features.

Journeyman Geek

just cobwebs :D

I think the last big feature change was the new TL stuff?

balpha

@JourneymanGeek now it even has cobwebps!

2

Shadow Wizard

10:37

@balpha ah! giggles and opens a 90 years old bottle of wine to celebrate the awesome news

Journeyman Geek

....

@balpha that's simultaniously brilliant and terrible

Shadow Wizard

@balpha I'll frame this in 200px font and hang over my bed.

SPArcheon

mumble... the knowledge about the "!" could be a dangerous one...

Journeyman Geek

@SPArcheon its 'standard' markdown

insofar as markdown is standard on SE, which it isn't

SPArcheon

@JourneymanGeek Users are far too used to click "pictures" that can't be oneboxed.

I am wondering if you can get someone to click something bad.

balpha

10:45

no, people never click on things they're not sure about, like this suprising news that just broke or this adorable picture of a kitten

SPArcheon

@balpha I will argue mine is worse because it looks like the usual "can't onebox facebook/twitter" issue you get from using some adsblocker (img is blocked by the plugin, chat shows the "user image" placeholder)

less suspicious

JNat

@SPArcheon you're kinda changing the topic of the discussion, though. My line of inquiry here had nothing to do with "the company's reading of user resentment." We're well aware that that's a thing, and we were not expecting that an initiative like this would make that go away, nor that the community would think "we're a changed company."

If you read back, you'll see I wasn't asking why Shadow feels how he feels, nor why didn't this initiative change that, and not even what can we do to change that — rather, I was just asking "why do you keep engaging?," to put it simply.

Additionally, even though there is definitely still good work to be done in improving mod tools, a good chunk of last year was spent improving those — that's just not particularly visible to the larger community, 'cause... well, they're mod tools

SPArcheon

@JNat sorry, as a side viewer that came out as a tired remark at Shadow being negative. I guess I got the context wrong.

JNat

@SPArcheon there's no need to apologize

Shadow Wizard

@SPArcheon I agree in general, but won't say it gives nothing - it does give a lot, as lots of users did not lose trust, and it's good.

Journeyman Geek

10:57

→ 6 messages moved to Chimney

M.A.R.

Oh, I'm having deja vu

Shadow Wizard

@M.A.R. look for the cat

Journeyman Geek

there's a suppository for that

M.A.R.

I'm having deja vu about having deja vu

Shadow Wizard

It's just a glitch in the Matrix

M.A.R.

10:58

There's several layers of deja vus involved.

Shadow Wizard

The glitch is bugged, needs balpha to fix it.

M.A.R.

I mean, whenever these 'community trust company' discussions pop up, I feel like I've loaded an older save and want to skip the cutscenes.

JNat

@ShadowWizard While there might be some users who haven't lost trust, I think it might be more useful to remember that there are folks who might've lost trust, and still engage constructively. I think it's evident you have some investment in the platform. And I could be completely wrong here, but I think while you might not want to get your hopes up for fear of being disappointed again, there must be some reason that you keep engaging despite the lack of trust.

Shadow Wizard

You're welcome.

SPArcheon

> Things are a mess fer ya 'cause ya think time an' space are objective things. Y'now how time seems down when y're waiting? Fact is, time is simply a creation of your human consciousness. What is there ain't no human beings anywhere in the world? Wouldn't clocks and calendars be a waste?

Shadow Wizard

11:03

@JNat it goes deeper than I can currently comprehend myself, but TL;DR is that I'm motivated by old habits. They say "old habits die hard", in my case they just don't die. Or it's just an addiction. :)

M.A.R.

Nobody can guarantee that in the very near future, there won't be a horrid flow-breaking change ordered from the heavens unto us mortals that will sweep away these attempts at fostering goodwill like a tsunami would sweep away a sand castle.

Shadow Wizard

I still play a game I now despise, in the mobile phone, just because... I have no idea why. So it made me realize, engaging on SE and spending time on it might be similar, though I don't despise it.

M.A.R.

So . . . Seriously, where's the skip button?

Shadow Wizard

@M.A.R. you just skipped it.

M.A.R.

Yay!

Today I'm philosophical because I have pulled all night

Shadow Wizard

11:05

@M.A.R. pulled what?

M.A.R.

Myself

Shadow Wizard

Into what?

M.A.R.

I feel stretchier already

Shadow Wizard

hmm

So it was too big.

runs away

M.A.R.

Then I had a BS exam about BS

If you must know, the mullahs have forced us to take a "Familial science" course: Everyone will be happy if you build your family like one of those True Detective religious cults

Then had a class about "pharmacoeconomics"

Tinkeringbell

11:09

@M.A.R. Is that about pricing drugs for 200k in one country and at 44k in the other? :P

M.A.R.

I feel like my brain has participated in a pro wrestling match: None of it real or necessary, but it's come out of the other end battered and bruised.

@Tinkeringbell no, the "take numbers out of context" course is next semester

JNat

@ShadowWizard just brings me back to this

17 hours ago, by JNat

Shadow Wizard

@JNat perhaps, yeah.

M.A.R.

Well, not exactly taking those numbers out of context, but horribly misplacing the blame.

@balpha do not open Pandora's chat

JNat

@ShadowWizard stop me at any time if I'm being annoying, but... when you post a response to a post like yesterday's, then, do you see that as an individual action, taken for your personal purposes? Or do you see that as an action that is part of a community effort?

Andreas moved to Codidact

11:16

@ShadowWizard Addiction.

M.A.R.

@AndreasmovedtoCodidact Who parents the parentmen?

Andreas moved to Codidact

@M.A.R. Lizards.

JNat

in Trashcan, 14 hours ago, by Andreas moved to Codidact

@JNat Probably simple psychology. Same reason why people go to their friends, family or a therapist to do one-way communication about a matter that hurts them. It feels good to share a burden, so one doesn’t have to carry it by oneself, and even better if one can see that one’s not the only person looking at things these ways.

this would suggest Shadow might be talking to the community, not to the company — is that what you meant, @AndreasmovedtoCodidact?

Shadow Wizard

@M.A.R. too late! :D

@JNat individual. I don't think much before posting comments, only before posting answer. And it did change, used to think much less before posting comments in the past.

(which wasn't good.)

(e.g. wonder if anyone remember/saw the half baked clash with Adam at some point in the past... :))

ah oops

What are all those devs doing here? :P

JNat

@ShadowWizard are you hoping to get a response at all, when you post?

Shadow Wizard

11:22

@JNat answer? Yes. Comment? Not really.

So I also pretty much stopped posting comments asking for updates on e.g. old bugs with a comment from staff.

(still slipping sometimes though.)

JNat

@ShadowWizard there must be some level of interaction you're looking for, no, @ShadowWizard? Otherwise, why would you post your thoughts in a publicly visible forum, rather than, say, in your diary?

M.A.R.

@JNat wait. I might be missing a good chunk of the convo here, but whenever someone burnt out posts an answer, you should imagine a bunch of octogenarians on folding chairs shaking their heads at the younguns stumbling about in their lawn. They don't talk to each other, they already know exactly what each of them will say

JNat

@M.A.R. As much as I can appreciate the visual, that's not how I'm seeing Shadow, I guess — but maybe @ShadowWizard can correct my perception, and tell me if that's the general gist of it

M.A.R.

Lol @CatharticEncephalopathy

Wait, hmm, unless by dehydration, laxatives don't cause encephalopathy

Andreas moved to Codidact

@JNat Mostly just that he's talking, maybe even just to the air. :P Have you never found yourself in a situation where you feel completely hopeless or without luck, yet you try, even without hope that it'll succeed?

Shadow Wizard

11:26

@JNat hmm. Guess I just like to share.

Andreas moved to Codidact

That's 2x hopeless, fun.

Shadow Wizard

e.g. people love to share their food on Instagram.

I like to share my thoughts on SE. ;)

JNat

I don't think people share just for the sake of sharing, though?

Shadow Wizard

@JNat you found one that does. :-)

Really, I don't care if others agree with me, or not. I mean, I don't expect either of those.

Andreas moved to Codidact

If a dead entity is all you have, you'll keep feeding it, even though it doesn't help, simply because you don't have an alternative. I moved on to Codidact, that was my way out of here. I stopped caring that much about this platform, which was a huge relief. Others still cling on.

Shadow Wizard

11:29

@AndreasmovedtoCodidact ah, like staying inside a car that is without fuel, hoping it will still somehow keep driving. Yup.

Andreas moved to Codidact

(to be fair, I really stopped caring about everything in my life)

M.A.R.

@JNat this sharing used to hold significance when folks from the company were obviously involved. Shog9/TimPost/Anyone else was listening, people were sure of that, and since the company didn't send mixed signals about whether they care, the general assumption was that the important stuff is being relayed to someone who can have some say in things. Now, they have all but given up on being heardk but that doesn't mean they won't appreciate it.

Shadow Wizard

@JNat my audience is whoever reads, yeah. Be it community, company, or aliens. :D

JNat

@ShadowWizard ok, let's take the metaphor to the extreme, then: is it more comfortable inside the car than without? Is it not better to try to push the car, if you don't wanna walk away from it? Are you trying to find alternative ways to get to where you want to go, or to move the car?

M.A.R.

IOW, the goal was always sharing thoughts with expected bonuses, and now those bonuses have eroded away.

Shadow Wizard

11:32

@AndreasmovedtoCodidact oh, dat iz sad. sending a therapist to @Andreas' home

Andreas moved to Codidact

@ShadowWizard No, send something that works, like milkshakes. :P

M.A.R.

And people are wary of company feedback now because of the tsunamis I mentioned. So in the end, yeah, now people just wanna share their thoughts, bitterness or outrage.

Shadow Wizard

@AndreasmovedtoCodidact she will have a double milkshake, no worry! :D

JNat

@M.A.R. I've been around for a while, and I believe the claim that "the company didn't send mixed signals" in hindsight to not be particularly accurate, given community responses.

In other words: that account somewhat romanticizes the past

from my point of view

Shadow Wizard

@JNat yes it's comfortable indeed. Oh, and forgot a small but important detail, there is no fuel left in the whole world anymore, hence it's pointless to go out and bring some, or hope others will bring. :)

M.A.R.

11:35

@JNat well, how hind are we talking? Sure, in days of yore, from what I gather, I wasn't around, Jeff sometimes trampled about the whole discussion

Shadow Wizard

Yes I can push the car all the way to the destination, but... what for???

Tinkeringbell

@ShadowWizard Time to call the technical university from Delft and get them to deliver that solar powered car :P

Shadow Wizard

:D

M.A.R.

But the main bonus was the listening. When people booed the comment -1 ban experiment, they knew they were heard.

Andreas moved to Codidact

The past was still simpler. Pre-2018 (or 2019?) the exact direction and specific details may not have been as aligned, so a bit mixed, but the general path was there: cooperate with the community, do the things best for the platform, and uphold the original purpose of Stack Overflow.

JNat

11:36

@ShadowWizard that's a question for you to answer, not me. @AndreasmovedtoCodidact changed to a different car, for instance. You're telling me this car is comfortable, which to me hints at the fact that you think there's something worthy about this car

Shadow Wizard

it's not the car, it's what inside the car, that matters.

:-)

Andreas moved to Codidact

@JNat It's uncomfortable to give up the safe space, and to wander out into the unknown.

@ShadowWizard And that's why I'm still hanging out in this chat room. There are still nice people around. :)

Shadow Wizard

argh, those bugs aren't going to fix themselves, and balpha can't help me fix the OEE bug in one of our client's daily reports. Cya!

@AndreasmovedtoCodidact blush

(or did you mean @M.A.R? ;))

M.A.R.

I'm obviously nicer than you

Journeyman Geek

@JNat if I may butt in ...

Andreas moved to Codidact

11:39

@ShadowWizard Myself, dumbass. :P Jk.

Journeyman Geek

I'd say while we romanticise jeff, and to a lesser extent - the starting part of Joel's tenure

JNat

@AndreasmovedtoCodidact granted. But I'm getting the impression that the "safe space" isn't all that comfortable either.

Andreas moved to Codidact

@JNat It's not.

M.A.R.

@JourneymanGeek I didn't intend to, I just went too far back. I've only been here since, what, 2015?

JNat

@AndreasmovedtoCodidact Is it worth making more comfortable, then?

M.A.R.

11:41

And back then, everything was fine.

Journeyman Geek

To an extent - I think there's a certain sense of them caring about the community, and what we call the public platform now was seen as a linchpin to everything else

Andreas moved to Codidact

@JNat There's no point in polishing the seats if you can't fix the engine, no.

But polished seats can trick people into believing the engine is still in good shape.

Journeyman Geek

I'm not a fan of careers because it became the tail wagging the dog. I'd probably be more trusting of this gen AI malarky if not for occasionally having the community's very clear desires not to have it trampled, and having resources going to it while people were getting downsized and stuff put on the backburner cause of lack of resources

JNat

@AndreasmovedtoCodidact I hope you see that this metaphor has you uncomfortable and going nowhere, rather than being more uncomfortable with going off into the unkonwn, or attempting to get the car to move again.

Journeyman Geek

@JNat you mean the car metaphor has gone off the rails?

Andreas moved to Codidact

11:44

@JNat I was assuming the car is Stack Exchange, and you asked if there was a point in making surface improvements (bug fixes, simple new features, etc).

JNat

@JourneymanGeek lol, no, I think we can still stretch it further. But it's highlighting clearly, to me, a notion of arrest

@AndreasmovedtoCodidact I wasn't seeing the car as anything specific, and I never talked about surface improvements — I was inquiring about what you can do to improve the car, or to get the car to where you want it to go; whatever the car means to you

M.A.R.

@JourneymanGeek like every good speaker, they made the listener feel special. The nerds behind the screens, every one of them, this was like a merry gathering, and the campfire stories are what made it work. This isn't just about AI even. Ever since the language changed -- that beneath the perfunctory comments ingratiating "the community", it was this or that feature that make Stack Overflow special, will be the future of Stack Overflow, yadda yadda -- that feeling's gone too.

Andreas moved to Codidact

Then my answer is that no, that's pointless. The reason is because the engine (generative AI, lack of company focus on the community, pursuit of non-public-Q/A-as-the-core strategies, etc) is broken, and that this engine does not seem to be possible to repair.

Journeyman Geek

@M.A.R. I think @JNat's heard me talk about that more than you've heard the wheelchair story

M.A.R.

@JourneymanGeek oh no, I'm turning into . . . you? GAAAAH

Journeyman Geek

11:47

@AndreasmovedtoCodidact My counter arguement to it is the network has good bones. The GPS just keeps trying to drive it off a cliff.

JNat

@M.A.R. you're making it sound like you'd be happy with the direction, as long as the nature of the conversation shifted

M.A.R.

Worry not, this is an emergency protocol. I will be back to normal after some good sleep

JNat

and I'm suspicious that that's really the case

Journeyman Geek

@JNat when people start communicating at 'our' level, with understanding - its a sign things are better

cause you can't talk like that without understanding the culture of the place, the people, and what really motivates them

JNat

but that doesn't say anything about the direction anyway

Journeyman Geek

11:49

It also means the company gave them the freedom to speak, they feel comfortable speaking

JNat

just about how we engage

Journeyman Geek

@JNat but that's part of it.

JNat

@JourneymanGeek it almost feels like you're saying you don't care as much about the company direction as you do about being able to have friendly chats with staff?

Shadow Wizard

@M.A.R. not really. Cheese used to move around even back then, and scare the mice away.

Journeyman Geek

@JNat if staff have the freedom and comfort to directly engage with the community, and take back what they have learnt, and get listened to the company direction gets better

JNat

11:51

@ShadowWizard this is accurate

Shadow Wizard

Anyway, I'm proud of myself! Bug fixed. I think.

yay

Andreas moved to Codidact

@JourneymanGeek That's what tends to happen when metaphors are overused, and everyone forgets what the point of them was. :P Because that's really just the same with two different filters on.

Shadow Wizard

hmm

M.A.R.

@JNat obviously if the "nature of the conversation" shifts, and two weeks later a major change happens that makes using the site harder, then we'd go backwards. Thinking about things that can be changed, yeah, looking at the active users not like the 0.015%, but people whose advice is worth hearing, yeah, it'll help.

Journeyman Geek

Jeff used to say "Listen to the community but don't let them tell you what to do"

I'm not expecting a pony. I'm hoping for people to value people with those skills

JNat

11:51

@JourneymanGeek and what I can infer from your line of thought, if I'm understanding it correctly, is that you believe that are internal systems at play preventing staff members from engaging in that way?

Shadow Wizard

@JNat so.... wanted to ask this for a while. Are you, well, the new Yaakov?

JNat

I don't know what that means?

Journeyman Geek

@JNat Well, as someone on the outside, with my nose stuck to the window at times... I believe that's part of it

Shadow Wizard

@JNat bridge. Between community and the company.

You can be...

Journeyman Geek

and that the company culture has drifted in ways that discourages it - it wants to be a serious SAAS company rather than one that runs social software

JNat

11:53

@ShadowWizard well, I'm a CM, so that's naturally a part of the job?

Shadow Wizard

@JNat haha.

Well in your case.

Mithical

@JourneymanGeek *antisocial software

Shadow Wizard

Anyway, still need to think about all of this.

M.A.R.

@JNat what @Journey and many other vital members of this "community" believe is mainly what can be inferred through what's visible on meta.SE. Sure, some people have TL access, but the major events ripple enough to be on meta.SE.

Journeyman Geek

I think a good benchmark might be (and yes, I know at least Phillippe is a little sick of me saying it) - if you can hire, and retain community members

JNat

11:55

@M.A.R. sure, but when you start inferring, you create narratives. Those may or may not be a true representation of reality

Journeyman Geek

@M.A.R. I think I'm generally vocal, and very direct about what I think. My main point of "restraint" is if I feel the people I am talking to are unconfortable, or spoons.

SPArcheon

At this point, I am pretty convinced my original answer was indeed pretty on spot, but I probably lacked in being "direct enough" out of perceived kindness.
Yer questions do indeed point to one thing: you feel Shadow "pessimism" is destructive (and maybe annoying? this is indeed giving deja vu) and wonder why he won't instead either move on or stop ranting and starting do something to improve.
You ask why he is still here if "the car is not comfortable"? I suggest you look into the "sunken cost fallacy" theory so dear to gacha games then.

@JNat Posts like this one do not help in that regard

Journeyman Geek

@SPArcheon I might disagree with the 'company' - tailor my level of involvement and still like this place. I'm an optimist, I'm hoping for the end of a long night

Shadow Wizard

@JourneymanGeek and it worked because it was Jeff. That just won't work these days anymore.

Journeyman Geek

@ShadowWizard Jeff listened :D

and occationally realised he was messing up and stepped back

JNat

11:57

@SPArcheon I'm well familiarized with the sunk-cost fallacy. If I'm understanding your point correctly, though, it isn't me who might be incurring it. Unless you think it's a waste of time for me to have these conversations with y'all?

Shadow Wizard

@JourneymanGeek yup

Journeyman Geek

@JNat it might be true of why some people are 'here' tho

Shadow Wizard

@JNat not a waste of time, the opposite.

SPArcheon

@JNat no, I was pointing out that this is your answer as to "why is Shadow still on the car"

Shadow Wizard

While it won't "help" me personally, I do see great value in this all. @JNat

SPArcheon

11:58

too invested to leave, too angry and disillusioned to try to change.

Andreas moved to Codidact

@JNat I guess you're asking because you're trying to understand what specifically we want; what's behind all those words, at the core. So, you can understand what you need to do to make us satisfied. You just need to be in our place. Distance yourself from your job for a moment, and think about what you would need to see, had you been on the outside. Take away the transparency you know, and reintroduce the opaqueness we're used to, about SE.

What do you want this platform to be, and how does SE's actions as of the past few years align with that? What would you like to see instead? It's really the only thing that can satisfy people here. They/we have a vision for what this platform is supposed to be. The only thing that's good enough, is if SE either shares that vision, or works towards it anyway.

Journeyman Geek

@SPArcheon "I don't like the new landlord, but damned if anyone chases me out from my pub" :D

JNat

@JourneymanGeek you mentioned you think internal systems are at play here, but you and I have had conversation about other things that might contribute to the lack of freedom and comfort in engaging with the community, haven't we?

Shadow Wizard

@SPArcheon oh, hey, I'm inside the car, with A/C and music and all. ;)

M.A.R.

@JNat So, for example, the staff that mediated conversations, who had built priceless trust among community members, were suddenly laid off. Between that and the dozen other indicators that no one really cares anymore, not much is left to the imagination. But your point is also exactly what I'm getting at: People see Shog9 then Catija (then Yaakov, I guess?) leaving, then some boilerplate almost pregenerated post from the company, which isn't much of an explanation. You can see where it goes

from there

Journeyman Geek

11:59

@JNat many of which are cultural, or organisational

M.A.R.

@ShadowWizard thick accent Pamperrred Westerrrner.

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