4 hours later…
2:18 PM
Sorry for the impending wall of text, and sorry if there's repeated content. I haven't bothered reading over it twice and I'm not gonna fix it anyway because this is chat and not main.
@ShadowThePrincessWizard I realize leaving will affect people I talk to daily or at least often. I guess it's a side-effect. It's not the intention, but it's unavoidable. Staying can and probably will be picked up by SE as support to them, which I don't want. I also don't want to continue to be associated with a site that acts horribly to its users and moderators, and only appears to focus on small subsets of users at the expense of everyone else.
I have nothing against the welcoming push, but by firing Monica the way they did (notably the media part), it sends a very strong signal that might affect Monica negatively professionally. Whether she did something wrong or not wasn't even specified to her. There's also the licensing mess where they failed to reply to concerns. The mod tools aren't updated, the important core aspects of the site that're intended and required to get it to work in the long run aren't updated and scaled.
Chat has been abandoned, area51 is effectively abandoned software-wise, the apps are abandoned, and the only thing that appears to be worked on is the asking experience for new users. It's necessary, but at the expense of everything else, it makes the site overall worse. Not to forget what Aza mentioned in her resignation post.
The site is currently in a complete shitstorm, and SE isn't focusing on the important parts to at least calm it down (notably the open letters to SE, the license change, and their lie on ad tracking). They've listened to twitter more than its own users multiple times, and Sara used Twitter to indirectly bash people who leave.
That tweet is one of the reasons I'm considering posting a final message to SE before I leave - I don't want to be associated with that group. That tweet made it much harder to leave without it being associated with something negative. The reason I'm waiting with deleting my account is because SE is still trying. At least some of the employees with something I can only call common sense.
Yaakov and Shog, and to a certain degree Tim (meta.stackexchange.com/questions/335809/… - pretty sure it's just management orders that've resulted in actions giving me a negative view of him, but he's definitely trying to keep the site alive).
They keep going about it horribly over and over and make the exact same mistakes over and over, and I'm done. I don't want to be associated with that. I don't want to participate in that. I realize it'll have multiple consequences, mainly by destroying my primary goal for being here - helping people and helping the site. I don't want to help a site that doesn't help us help them, nor do I want to help a site that ignores its community and people they fire.
That comparison with shipping on a friday still bugs me so incredibly much. They went to the media but not us. They're doing podcasts and writing blog articles like there's no tomorrow, but still claim they don't have enough staff. They have over 250 employees - that makes you wonder what the rest are hired as (my guess is sales).
The way they labeled meta as toxic bothers me. They're labeling an entire community based on a small group of loud screamers. I didn't classify meta as toxic until the drama surrounding the CoC started. That resulted in many truly toxic discussions (some times "discussions" - more bashing). The worst part is that it doesn't exclusively target LGBTQ, but everyone. The majorities just get bashed less, but it most certainly exists.
The way it was handled has resulted in the community turning on itself. Opposers vs supporters. SE is destroying the community by making it destroy itself. It's coming down to legal action to make them think twice about what they're doing, and even then, they're gonna keep doing the same shit over and over and over.
In spite of best efforts, the force that causes these changes remain unchanged. You wanna talk problems? Ironically, it ain't the community. Now that I see that, and I see SE is barely listening in some areas (aside on the post notice change atm). The current procedure for most changes seems to be "Here's an unannounced change we're announcing now that it's been released. If you have questions, ask and we'll ignore it if it's against our point of view".
SE has never been a true democracy because the site is closed source and it's a for-profit company, and you know what? I can live with that. I can live with a company taking charge, but when it doesn't listen to its own community at least a little, and listens more to twitter, what's the point? I honestly hope Charcoal decides to stop operations, and they might reconsider when some sites start flooding with unhandled spam.
The community does so much, and they don't listen to your input at all, nor do they respond to concerns. I get that the company is bound to disagree with some community points and won't change their stand, but they're not even defending their own position. They make claims that can be proved wrong or doesn't make sense, and fail to defend them. They make illegal changes and hang people out to dry in the media without sharing info with the group it actually affects - the community.
I know there are multiple groups that need to be taken into consideration - notably new users - but they make changes even us regular users can tell will be harmful (the change to the landing page on SO for an instance). They're making so conflicting changes it's unclear who they're trying to help. Removing HMP reduces meta participation, and they labeled the entire thing toxic. Changing the front page makes it harder for users to tell what the hell SE actually is.
The front page change makes it look like they're aiming for corporate instead of a community. The post notice change is intended to help new users. The CoC change is intended to help LGBTQ, but they've written it in a way that's weaponizeable. Someone called me "they" when I didn't list it as a preferred pronoun, and someone used the CoC to point out the "wrong" pronoun. I added "they" to the list because, while I prefer she/her, I have no problem with they/them, even if it isn't my favorite
or one I use when I correct pronoun misuse that goes too far for me personally (AKA anything except they/them or she/her). I'm still in favor of the CoC, and believe the idea will make the site better for LGBTQ+ users, but there's still some implementation flaws. Maybe the new version is better - I haven't read over it or seen it executed, so I can't take a complete stand on it. I think it's better than the first one though.
A lot of users don't even know about this because they're not very involved in site operations, and most users probably haven't read it either. It's a bit like the ToS when you sign up to a site - you check the box saying you've read and agreed to the ToS and privacy policy, even if you know you haven't read it. I rarely read the privacy policy or terms myself to be honest. There's a few qualifiers that make me read it, but that's aside the point.
I'm leaving because this drama is affecting me negatively. Reading some of the posts that've since been nuked or being thrown random accusations at, I've been attempted invalidated a few times, it's disturbing. I'm leaving because the site I joined is officially dead. I'm leaving because the stated goal of the site is no longer true. I'm leaving because SE seems to only care about profits than the site itself. I'm leaving because I'm tired of fighting battles that won't be heard by SE.
I joined because I needed help. I left because I got into trouble. I rejoined because I saw value to the site, and I stayed for the community. I moderated because I wanted to help grow the site that helped me out of one of the definitely worst life situations I've ever been in. I wanted to help create a place where people can learn, and I wanted to help keep it clean. I kept going because of the community, and I'm now leaving because SE's management doesn't seem to care about the community.
It's been a hell of a ride, and I've learned a lot. Not just in coding. The community helped me in ways the site wasn't meant to. I joined with 0 social abilities, and was indirectly helped to get better. I've made mistakes, I've been angry, I've been sad, and I've wanted to give up. But the community has also been a source of some of the best moments of my life, including some that lead to moments off-site. Unfortunately, that culture is dying and SE isn't taking the correct steps in a
sensible way to help fix it. It's causing polarization between LGBTQ and allies, and "the others" because of the way SE handled it. They forgot they run a network of over 170 Q&A sites with so many users and so many different views and opinions and just rammed the entire site into the ground. The way they handled it is likely going to lead to a lawsuit (Monica). Possibly more with licensing.
It's a bit like "that game everyone plays". It's not something you'd normally see yourself playing, until someone recommends it to you. You try it, and actually like it. If the person recommending it is in a position of significant attention (i.e. a YouTuber in this hypothetical - in the case of SE, Monica), it unleashes a "block" because people notice it and decide to play (in the case of SE, take legal action). Who knows how many lawsuits this will unleash? The licensing change is
one with a valid legal foundation as well, at least according to Makyen's research (which comes from Creative Commons directly). If SE needs to be dragged to court before they see they need to change, that's a site not willing to listen unless they're forced to by law. There's been a lot of problems for years, and they haven't attempted to fix it.
Ironically, they're working on the new user UX, but they're doing so at the expense of a lot of other people. They've even done things that directly affect new users negatively (front page). They're attempting to push for corporate and new users, without caring about the consequences of the product that put them on the map - their Q&A system. They're sacrificing the community in the process.
Unless something changes, yeah. I'll mostly be on Discord. And like I said in my first message, I'll still be around for a while. I got stuff to sort out and I want to see if something changes. If not, I'll fall back to once a week until something changes, or I drop to 3k rep on MSE (I'm gonna give a lot of bounties on the open letters - possibly a lower limit). After that, I'll be in once a month. I might still cancel my plans if something does change in the next couple (ish) weeks, but it's looking bad atm.
@Zoe's Wall of Text
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1 hour later…
2 hours later…
6:55 PM
7:20 PM
@Zoethetransgirl try a bit of Yahoo! Answers? On a serious note: It is a rough ride and I get some of us take a few step backs so they can see a broader picture and plan their life from that new point of view. Don't under value the things I learned from you, sometimes just by being yourself. Remember and learn from this that people are amazing but once put in an group or context (work) they can turn into illogical decisions makers. Watch out for those with power, move on when they use it. Take care.
7:32 PM
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