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12:08 AM
user image
12:49 AM
@Quill I'm asking why not why not
1 hour later…
2:07 AM
2:53 AM
I'm learning Haskell this semester :3
3:03 AM
A new burrito place opened up on campus and they're offering free burritos.... there's a line of what would be 300 people waiting for a free burrito
1 hour later…
4:22 AM
5 messages moved to Sandbox
4:50 AM
Any new meta drama today?
Q: Please review answers on this popular question

Monica CellioWhat is the fastest way for a robot with superhuman capabilities to make money? has, so far, 38 answers. (Did you know there's an auto-flag for "more than 30 answers"?) On a quick scan most of them look good, though it looks like there might be some overlap. I see two that are about mining bit...

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5:17 AM
@Quill would be?
5:50 AM
7 messages moved to Sandbox
A bit cleaner now...
Eww oracle SQL and MySQL this semester
@hichris123 not that I can see, there's too many documentation MSO questions
It seems our friend JasonC has forsaken us for Motor Vehicle and Maintenance and Repair:
Q: Canonical question for "Low beams don't work, high beams do."

Jason CThis comes up a lot: Low beams out high beams work High Beams work, Low beams don't, But . . No low beams but do have high beams Electrical - Low beams out, high beams still work Low beams don't work but the high beams work in a 2002 Toyota Tacoma Low beam headlights out, High beam working High...

6:41 AM
[ SmokeDetector ] Pattern-matching website in body: Since you have the strong and delightfully formed human body by Neen1951 on drupal.stackexchange.com
Crap flood in MSE, we need a plumber...
@Quill so rude! :D
7:05 AM
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[ SmokeDetector ] Bad keyword in title, pattern-matching website in body: How can i get Gmail Customer Service Number by Jack Marteen on android.stackexchange.com (@Portal)
@ShadowWizard we need to call 1800-ODED
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7:26 AM
@ShadowWizard Its a me, Mario!
I think documentation in and of itself will become the center point of a meta war
@Magisch why?
@ShadowWizard Tensions are running hot on the rep question
@Magisch Linky?
7:39 AM
Q: Documenting the problems with documentation

SethDocumentation has finally reached public beta, and it looks quite good, but (there's always a but) there are some things wrong with it. Duplicated content We have quite a few canonical (general) answers here on SO, and instead of moving them over to documentation they're just getting c&p'ed, ...

sd 2k
Spam can't even spell 'Company' right
@Magisch I think this one would be better example of potential "war":
Q: Don't give me reputation points for making an edit to a Documentation topic

Toby AllenMy reputation score is still low enough that I get excited when I see I have jumped +40 points in one day. Oddly today this happened, and I found it was because people had upvoted a topic that I had edited in Documentation (I had removed an unnecessary section, which in the best use of wiki tech...

/cc @James ^
For some reason, this one got zero official attention, not even a tiny comment.
Which probably makes people there more angry.
7:56 AM
I was pleasantly surprised to find that bundle of extra rep on launch day
I find it funny how I've got a page of documentation examples, but only the ones near the top got upvotes
@JamesENL Its the pile on effect
8:17 AM
@ShadowWizard The main reason is that there have been 566 meta questions about Documentation (so far) and we can't get to all of them. Of all the things to worry about, reputation is the least interesting at the moment. It's the most likely to change.
@JonEricson About that. If you guys change what does constitute a substantial edit, will that be applied retroactively?
@Magisch Yes.
@JonEricson So in theory people could lose literally tens of thousands of rep from that very easily?
@Magisch If we wait long enough. But that's why we have the beta label.
@JonEricson Thats gonna generate an unprecended amount of moaning
remember what happened with the great rep recalc?
8:22 AM
Under the Beta regime internet points are even more imaginary ...
@Magisch We get used to moaning. It's part of the job.
wrong room?
you know what other professions are used to moaning?
@Telkitty Ghostbusters?
8:29 AM
how so?
sounds like an elephant, at least the starting bit
Finally the day has come.
23 hours ago, by Quill
I'm enjoying it, but there's no way they're not gonna nerf this
Add zookeeper to the list, then.
8:31 AM
and peace activists?
making xxxx not war
@JonEricson sorry but that's not a reason. This is the most upvoted non-SE-employee documentation question on MSO.
Personally I'm not inside of this, but as a side viewer it's.... not encouraging.
(i.e. team ignoring such a popular argument.)
@JonE Someone upvoted me serially, then tomorrow it will be reversed and I lose a ton of rep (since the reversal doesn't count towards the rep cap). Could it be reversed now?
Do you have the tools for that?
The thing with Documentation is that there's two sides to the coin, the FR side and the Rep side
On the one hand, there's a plethora of awesome FRs and suggestions
But people think their "hard earned rep" is losing value because these "whippersnappers" are gaining it massively with Docs
[ SmokeDetector ] Bad keyword with email in body: Do you need a Voice Auditioning Platform FREE by Graham Robinson on gamedev.stackexchange.com
8:41 AM
IMO binding Documentation reputation with SO reputation is huge mistake, that will antagonize many long time users on SO. Stack Overflow might lose quite a few of them, becoming Documentation Overflow.
Change is always scary
People went into uproars about Careers being added to the site, or "fun" being off-topic
@Quill but it didn't hurt their reputation.
No, it literally just took up shelf space
It can be seen as bunch of new people gaining super easy rep for no good reason.
@ShadowWizard That's a losing battle. We have to prioritize things and so far the thing we've prioritized is bug fixes. (Even so, day one even introduced the very first change to the reputation system.)
8:43 AM
[ SmokeDetector ] Blacklisted website in body: peptide mass fingerprinting for protein identification by M.Scott on cooking.stackexchange.com
@JonEricson You could say devs work faster than rep solutions appear ;-)
sd k
@JonEricson of course, but I believe a response like "Thanks for the feedback, we'll take a look" would mean something.
@ShadowWizard There's only one way to know if it's a mistake and nobody has more to lose than we do.
@JonEricson yeah, time machine... ;)
8:45 AM
People come and go, it's unrealistic to assume that you can live in an ideal world forever with the same ideal people
@JonEricson Thats what I mean by this will incite a meta war
Game of Docs
sometimes those people are much less than ideal and they don't go
@Magisch not really meta war, IMO. People would just leave.
@Quill cleanup on aisle 5
8:46 AM
One faction will heavily argue in favor of keeping their reputation, and one side will feel their contributions are devalued in comparison. There is no way to win this, you'll piss of huge swaths of users either way.
@Oded heh, too late... crap wave already over. :P
there'll be another.... just wait
Yep yep. I always clear up the remains though.
@Oded are there remains? Can't see any...
And the later the change to rep comes, the more people will be more pissed off. Beta or not, most users will certainly not like losing rep for any reason. We've seen the by comparison infernal outcry over the rep recalc
8:49 AM
@Magisch this is still different. But as @Jon said, only time will tell...
The only move is not to play.
In the meantime, @Bart can eat his popcorn. :D
@Portal The only winning move. . .
facepalm myself
@ShadowWizard I am taking about spam users, users that are q-banned on SO etc...
8:50 AM
whine == moan?
a bit different, but... uh, yeah
On a positive note
There is this guy with 230 answers
@Oded no spam, there were like 5 off topic questions on MSE.... so you suspend those who do it while being Q-banned on SO?
Of his top 11 answers, 8 were plags
I'm now working my way through to find the rest of his plags
And already found 4 more
8:51 AM
@ShadowWizard don't feed the tr .... oh wait ...
feeding the @Bart
@ShadowWizard and those who have done it more than once.
@Magisch what is a "plag"?
To reinforce that... they need to pay attention to where they are.
@ShadowWizard Verbatim plagiarism
8:52 AM
@Telkitty snap out of it, will you
Whole-cloth copying of other answers or external ressources without attribution
burn baby burn
The guy is already suspended
@Oded true that. :)
8:53 AM
It worked well for me. I just took my canonical Hibernate answer and put it into Docs as separate examples.
It's hard to not plag in computer science, how many ways do you know to implement a Binary Search Tree? If that is an assignment questions ...
@Magisch yeah, as he should be.
I'm not done with him yet
I hate people who just copy stuff for rep
if I copied 10 lines of code and changed the while loop into a for loop, is it still plagiarism?
I may be wrong, but I wouldn't see that as plag
8:56 AM
@Telkitty Isn't that essentially how we all got through uni assignments?
@Telkitty if you then put it on Documentation to harvest rep then yes.
plagiarism could be much worse - just changing function & variable names
@Telkitty that's why it's hard to catch. But still, if caught, such users should be punished.
if someone is serious about catching plagiarism, there is a very simple solution: select all the code snippets from Stackoverflow, change them into machine code(thus eliminate variable name changes), then do a comparison. If 90% match, put them in a section for review.
to make it more complete: reorder function sequence then compare them
9:02 AM
although I am not quite sure the merit of catching plagiarism
Plagiarism. In programming code.
OK, you start working on the change them into machine code and let us know when you're done.
you have tags to help you with that
[ SmokeDetector ] Blacklisted website in answer: Error code (ERR_ACCESS_DENIED) Local HTML file on SD card with Chrome by Rajat K Jain on android.stackexchange.com (@Portal)
in SO Close Vote Reviewers on Stack Overflow Chat, 1 min ago, by Magisch
12. http://stackoverflow.com/questions/35645924/waiting-time-is-high-when-using-wind‌​ow-location-href-or-assign-or-reload/36847626#36847626 Top part copied from https://blog.cloudflare.com/ttfb-time-to-first-byte-considered-meaningles/ ,Graphic Copied from https://varvy.com/pagespeed/ttfb.html Conclusion part from https://www.rackaid.com/blog/time-to-first-byte/
This guy is crafty
9:05 AM
At least C for effort
HAI Sun Flower
Also I am not interested in catching plagiarism, I am not sure that good it would do to eliminate all plagiarism. I also have to agree that implementation would be a lot harder than the concept
@SmokeDetector k
Only 373 posts on SO contain plagiarism. It is not a big deal.
9:38 AM
[ SmokeDetector ] Blacklisted website in answer: Squid 3 custom error message by Rajat K Jain on serverfault.com
[ SmokeDetector ] Link at end of answer: Is education continuous or categorical? by user124399 on stats.stackexchange.com
9:55 AM
@ShadowWizard I'm not sure that putting food in my mouth without my consent is a good idea ... but then again, it's popcorn. So yay!
Feeding @rene Is easy. Just put soil on his roots and water a bit.
@Magisch don't forget he also needs sunlight
@Bart you're welcome!
digital flower needs reps to grow
@Magisch I love to soil his roots ... wait ... that sounds wrong
I feel I have done well by staying out of the whole Documentation thing for a while.
Apparently feederism is a sub-category of fetishism
10:10 AM
@ShadowWizard ^
@Telkitty nah, only @Bart-ism
10:27 AM
@Bart I assume you can reject stuff brought up for review
@JonEricson yeah.... I was telling basically everyone in the chat room to take it to meta.... I get the feeling a substantial amount of those are dupes
@rene Documentation stuff gets to the ordinary review queues on SO?
(or do you mean ordinary review?)
@ShadowWizard No, here
but it is easy. You select some text, search on Google. If a hit -> reject plagiarism, if no hit -> leave it alone, someone else will accept it
You only have 30 reviews so, it is doable
10:43 AM
@rene heh, sounds like something a bot can do.
But... one can create a new room on SO chat where items that need to be rejected will be posted, and people will go over it and reject.
@rene also, honestly, I still don't really get how it works.
@ShadowWizard is already there and SOCVR has it on their agenda for the RoomMeeting next monday
[ SmokeDetector ] Bad keyword in answer: A word for someone who gets scared easily by user187035 on english.stackexchange.com
@ShadowWizard sounds like Documentation Review
For example, what's going on here? Has the editor just removed the whole post/example? (in which case how come it's still not rejected after two days??)
@rene room meetings sound like fun.... although Happy Hour is usually pretty fun :3
10:47 AM
@Quill well, SOCVR tries to be as boring as possible, which isn't hard with me around
@ShadowWizard yeah, there are some weird things with the diffs and revision being merged/screwed up either in real or only for reviewers
@rene I noticed when you are around the kyll throwing decreases
@rene so I can't really review as I don't know what's going on, and don't want to break things I don't understand.
(of course I'll get the idea at some point, given enough time.... but like @Bart I prefer to wait a bit with spending my time on this.)
@ShadowWizard that particular case: no. You might find others that aren't screwed up
Time to get the legendary badge while the docs rep is still flowing
11:02 AM
do I get an honourable mention badge? meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/329391/…
11:17 AM
[ SmokeDetector ] Link at end of body, pattern-matching website in body: Need to convert it place by paul Cooley on drupal.stackexchange.com
@Quill yes, granted
[ SmokeDetector ] Blacklisted website in answer, blacklisted user: Does anyone know what causes muscles to shake uncontrollably while under stress? by Grace on fitness.stackexchange.com
@SmokeDetector I don't think that is a spammer, just an unfortunate newbie
[ SmokeDetector ] Link at end of body, pattern-matching website in body: Dominant Testo Test your products before marketing by FredPrimo on arduino.stackexchange.com
12:07 PM
New drinking game: Take a shot every time someone's elitism fetish for Q&A kicks in and they argue without any points that docs shouldn't give rep
@Quill In unrelated news, @Quill dies of alcohol poisoning
yeah.... they're mostly >50k users as well.... ;-;
> Now am not saying that they don't deserve any reputation points for the hard work they put to build the documentation topics/content but this is not fair to other users who earned the reputation points by answering on questions.
smells like the stench of elitism
Just remove this whole "reputation system" and let's see how SE goes (Wikipedia doesn't have rep)
Or probably userscript to hide reputation.
12:33 PM
Q: You hate h̶a̶t̶s̶ reputation? Click here to get rid of it

Vogel612Soo... I recently read a meta-post about the inherent problems of reputation. It listed some things like: Confirmation bias. Demotivating for low-rep users. Hubris and elitism of high-rep users over low-rep users. Incorrect representation of competence. ... So I thought to myself: "How would ...

And here... I'm back again with SOUP (no, not that @soup) installed...
12:50 PM
@Oded just wondering.... OP here is q-banned on SO?
@Portal this?
Q: The Stack Overflow Unofficial Patch (SOUP)

Ilmari Karonen The Stack Overflow Unofficial Patch (SOUP) is a project to collect various minor client-side bug fixes, work-arounds and usability improvements for Stack Overflow and other Q&A sites on the Stack Exchange Network into a single user script. The intent of SOUP is not to make any substantial o...

@ShadowWizard nope. One deleted post, but that's it.
@Quill Gotta protect yer privileges.
"When you’re accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression."
@Oded oh. Weird... wonder how he got to MSE then.
/me shrugs - happens fairly often.
12:55 PM
Can't deny that...
1:08 PM
@ShadowWizard socks?
some people have the habit of deleting old accounts and setting new ones
Not Sha his socks again ...
honest time: I have a lot of socks.
for example, I put final fantasy ones on today
@Oded hey
@Quill here, for you.
1:21 PM
@Portal I think there's a reason why Wikipedia doesn't have reputation.
@Telkitty nah, don't think so. Most people don't even think of using socks. (In SO, that is. ;))
Or why CW posts on SE do not earn reputation.
@Quill Squall? Or Zell? ;)
Documentation is a project on rediscovering those reasons.
@ᴡᴏʀᴅs what's the reason?
1:24 PM
@ShadowWizard i don't know, I haven't played final fantasy in too many years.... they just look really pretty
@Magisch like balpha (or was it Shog?) said before, you better ask what you want to ask, not just ping SE employee with a useless "hi".
I was going to type something
but... you didn't.
But then I realised someone had already dealt with the problem
Sorry :/
So you could delete the message. Oded can be scary when angry.... ;)
1:25 PM
@ShadowWizard hi
@Bart next time you're in Den....... :D
/me will be careful to not end up there
@Quill lol, at least you know what FF it's from? :D
@ShadowWizard wont let me
@ShadowWizard .... nope
1:27 PM
The final one
@Magisch not now, when you realized the "someone had already dealt with the problem" part. :)
@Quill OK, so take a pic and I'll tell you. Or @Derpy. ;)
@ShadowWizard Hindsight is 20/20
@Bart no such thing. There's always a new Final Fantasy game... :P
@Magisch hmm? Think I lost you now... :/
@ShadowWizard sounds like my documents. "importantdocument_final.doc" ... "importantdocument_finalcorrected.doc" "importantdocument_finalcorrectedv2.doc"
Anyway, my favorite is FF8. Simple, good story, not too easy...
1:29 PM
@ShadowWizard it's in the wash already.... ;-;
@Bart lol! Poor @Bart
@Quill so write a note to do that tomorrow.... :D
(pic of clean socks is always better anyway ;))
my project is finally ready for release :D
after way too long in development, it's ready for the vicious and condescending eyes of users
You should hope there'll be vicious and condescending eyes of users...
because most projects don't have those
I suppose a lack of eyes is worse
2:10 PM
Anyone here familiar with Code Review SE? Would this fit? stackoverflow.com/questions/38569595/…
[ SmokeDetector ] Blacklisted website in body, link at end of body: vitalpeak xt will put you on track to by Vanyariya on arduino.stackexchange.com
@Quill Data accepted: Quill loves socks. Quill has lots of socks.
Performing SPARQL(e) inference...
Quill is Minty.
@Bart I am familiar with CR
Easy on-topic guide:
Is it A) working code and B) not hypothetical or incomplete in any way?
@Magisch ho. Was interviewing someone - couldn't chat when you pinged me.
@Quill seems it's fine on both those points?
@Oded did you make them cry? Were you the bad cop?
2:19 PM
I am always the bad cop.
And crying isn't enough.
What's worse than crying, hmm...... did you force them to write Java?
@Bart looks alright, no objections in the chatroom
Ok, I'll recommend that then. Because I don't think it's a fit for SO.
[ SmokeDetector ] Blacklisted website in body: vitalpeak xt Piece of chestnut nut by chkachwe on mathoverflow.net
2:22 PM
Asking for a coding pattern probably isn't the best fit for Code Review, it would also probably work on Programmers if the majority of the code was taken out
Hmm, someone already recommended it
@Quill Haskell
Next time get Joel in the interview room/chat and then ask them to answer Excel questions
Man, you sure have a sadistic and inhuman side to you.
Some lines, even I won't cross.
But ... but ... if they do well you can say "You certainly ... excelled" and then put on your sunglasses.
2:30 PM
Excel ... could be worse, like Excel VBA :p
Should a suggested edit be accepted if all it does is replace "enter image description here" with an actual image description?
I'd like to see something more substantive to an edit.
@Oded Hire only the best, right?
@Quill I think we dropped that line... it is elitist and off putting to many. Not the way to build a diverse team.
We have high standards. And our interview process is difficult to get through.
2:35 PM
Building a diverse team? like 'we are hiring you because you are a dumb overweight seal, but we don't have one of your kind, so welcome on board'
trying to hire only the best is some sort of fallacy anyway
let's just pull anders hejlsberg and dan abramov and jon skeet and every other living legend away from the amazing work they're doing for our shitty little crud startup that has .io in the title
@Oded so who is the good cop?
if you are the cops, who are the criminals?
speaking of jobs, it's time to look for a new one, I think I still have a few favourited on careers
@ShadowWizard there is no good cop.
2:45 PM
in The 2nd Monitor on The Stack Exchange Network Chat, 15 secs ago, by Trojan404
If we flirt with mods, it's not technically flirting. It's attempting seduction :P
no context needed
@Telkitty we would hire a dumb overweight seal if they could do they job. Not because we don't have one.
@Oded so you're saying I still have a chance?
@Bart sure. We don't have a floating pair of glasses working for us yet.
Isn't it going to clash with the floating head?
Might add clarity.
Put things into focus.
2:47 PM
@Telkitty diversity is not so much about selectively choosing which pieces support the tower as much as it is being open to every kind of piece having their own place
@Oded I like that you have faith in a dumb overweight seal and think it could do the job :')
@Telkitty if the seal can pass our interview process, the seal can get a job.
I always thought mermaids were seals seen by people who bad eye sights
heh, mobile site design took 5 minutes... thanks SASS
2:59 PM
@Oded oh my. Will keep that in mind! :D
@Telkitty apparently it was manatees who were confused for mermaids
@Telkitty well if that unicorn could pass the interview, a seal sounds just as good
They're one of the best animals at job interviews.... they always seal the deal
All unicorns can pass SE's interview. No exception.
@Portal what about Null unicorns?
BTW donkey meat is delicious ... oh wait, why am I saying this ...
3:02 PM
@Telkitty crocodile meat is really good
test somewhat just like fish ...
@Portal you surely meant NullUnicornException? ;)
@Quill yeah, it's a meat that eats your own meat.
when I got a diamond, I really didn't anticipate that I'd mostly be using it to try and kick some common sense into noisy kids in chat
there's too many bored teenagers on the internet
3:17 PM
@Quill wait, you get to kick teenagers? Where can I sign up for this diamond stuff?
Not physically, jeez
Try hosting a Garry's Mod server... it'll be a million times worse
I'd rather have them reading a math book, but failing that, keeping bored teenagers on the internet isn't so bad.
@Quill I'm recently having wonderful exchanges with young whippersnappers in Overwatch's Competitive play.
A lot of them seem to know my mom
PokeMongoDB - where you walk around and try to find the data that your database lost
3:33 PM
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[ SmokeDetector ] Bad keyword with email in answer, email in answer: What's the difference between 江 and 河? by Jie Zhang on chinese.stackexchange.com
3:49 PM
laterZzz, I am off to soon Zzzz
@SmokeDetector I didn't know that, I guess you learn new things every now and then by staying in the traven :p
Night @Telkitty
And night @bjb568
@Oded Is your interview process to poke people with sharp sticks? Your job site says you'd never do that!
@Magisch we promise not to poke any employees with sharp sticks. Poking interviewees as part of the interview shows that why that's such a good thing!
3:59 PM
what position did you interview for? (or is that confidential information?)
Today's xkcd comic (Snapchat):
@Magisch one of the full stack web developer ones.
To be clear - I was giving the interview ;)
I would totally apply at stack except I have next to no applicable skills for a full stack web dev
4:04 PM
@Magisch You'll be pleased to know that their rejection email is really polite.
at least they send one to begin with
Which is also a positive
jokes aside, I don't apply to jobs I don't know that I have a very good chance to get
I've written a grand total of 3 applications to date, got 3 interviews and 3 offers.
4:33 PM
5th inning of baseball game, umpire declares a new rule: the defending team can also score, if their outfielder solves a sudoku during a half-inning. This certainly makes the game more inclusive, now people who are good at sudoku will be able to contribute too.
A: Don't give me reputation points for making an edit to a Documentation topic

Jon EricsonBack when Documentation was first announced, Kevin wrote: We intend for participation in the Documentation parts of Stack Overflow to be about as rewarding, in terms of reputation, as asking and answering is in the Q&A parts. Before last Thursday, we didn't have a good way to test the reput...

@ᴡᴏʀᴅs I actually agree with Jon's answer
reputation is about trust, its not a competition unless you make it one
4:51 PM
Perhaps I don't trust docs copy-pasters.
"Fairness" and "trust" aside, there's a certain utility to attaching reputation to votes on edits: now I get notified when someone up-votes something I touched, which is nice. I miss seeing a corresponding notification for downvotes though; if the voter doesn't comment, I don't find out that my edit was problematic.
I don't miss not being notified about the votes on 6,488 posts I edited on Math.SE...
I'm just happy I can earn reputation with what I'm good at: Nitpicking things
@Oded Was part of the interview process to formulate a decent and well researched question on SO? :D
00:00 - 17:0017:00 - 00:00

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