Tavern on the Meta

3:10 PM

Wut, a lot of serial upvoting reversed damage. I did not do anything bad yet feel like I'm being punished. Any way to figure out what went on? Or if the IP address is similar to mine (aka my office building)?

OGHaza

If serial up voting was reversed and you lost rep then it has nothing to do with you doing something wrong

Shadow Wizard

@Redsandro Not really, and unless it's happening more than once don't think it's worth to bother over it.

rene

@Redsandro on your so account a user has been removed and the rep you gained from that user (your sockpuppet? :-) ) is reversed

Somehwere in december 60 reputation got reversed

Duncan

@rene The rep history specifically states "Serial upvoting reversed". That is not the message when a user is removed, AFAIK.

That used to just be "user removed" or similar.

Jeroen Vannevel

depending on what got upvoted that was between 6 and 12 upvotes from 1 user. Unless you're most active in niche tags, that is suspicious

rene

3:19 PM

@Duncan yesterday a user was removed

Jeroen Vannevel

Then again, his first language tag is javascript at the 9th place; He is actually active in niche tags

jadarnel27

@hichris I got busy with other things, and never got back to you last night. Though your query came up with the same results as mine, I think.

25 most downvoted users

2

I always thought this one was interesting as well: Percentage of your total rep that came from accepted answers

Mostly because I get a lot of accepts on SO, and not a ton of upvotes over post.

Shadow Wizard

@jadarnel27 hey I'm #12!

jadarnel27

So I was curious how much I was getting out of the +15's =)

Haha, nice, @ShadowWizard!

Shadow Wizard

Does it mean I a bad person? :(

jadarnel27

3:30 PM

Most of the people on that list are awesome Meta contributors =)

Tim Stone

I think I have like 3 down votes on Meta.

At least one of which was somewhat retaliatory, but.

hichris123

@jadarnel27 I even forgot about that. I don't blame you.

jadarnel27

@TimStone That's nuts. That would be another interesting query. Least downvoted users. With some kind of minimum number of posts threshold.

Like, 100.

Tim Stone

I'm pretty sure I have ~5 down votes across the whole network. \o/

Duncan

@ShadowWizard No, it just means this cycle happens... "Can I have this stupid thing?" "No you can't, this is why it's stupid". "OMG DOWNVOTE!"

Shadow Wizard

3:33 PM

@Duncan :relief: ;)

Tim Stone

@TimStone ...With the exception of the Town Hall Digest posts.

jadarnel27

I got a bunch of downvotes for my post complaining about the Calvin and Hobbes thing haha.

Duncan

@TimStone You are Stack Exchange's Gary Lineker

jadarnel27

@hichris I only remembered because I had the chat ping sitting in my inbox this morning =)

Shadow Wizard

I got downvotes for suggesting to help a new community manager get a flair!

And she still has no flair

jadarnel27

3:35 PM

And because I was going through my daily ritual of reading the transcript. Skipping over the part where someone mistakenly engages Laszlo in one of his rants.

Which seems to be a new regular occurrence.

Duncan

With a small degree of horror, I realised he works two buildings down from me.

Shadow Wizard

@jadarnel27 yeah, he's very stubborn that's for sure

Duncan

I guess that provides the "physical" option when the rants get too much :-)

Shadow Wizard

@Duncan what, so you hear him shout in frustration every day? :D

jadarnel27

Hahaha, that is excellent.

Duncan

3:37 PM

I feel the ground tremors when he bashes the down-vote link.

2

Shadow Wizard

@Duncan and the flag link, then the "send" button here in chat

jadarnel27

I wish I wouldn't have asked all those silly questions on SO. Then I, too, would have very few downvotes (I think).

On Stack Overflow, at least.

Duncan

This question of yours seems to have a strange number of down-votes.

Up-vote from me :-)

Shadow Wizard

@jadarnel27 your last question was posted over two years ago, what do you mean?

and last downvote over three months ago stackoverflow.com/posts/7116812/timeline

Tim Stone

:OOO

A wild @RebeccaChernoff appears!

ElfSlice

3:44 PM

Today's Listening

Duncan

@ShadowWizard Maybe it's the SE equivalent of "Ooooh, I'm so fat. I eat alllllll the cakes...". Said by the 50kg stick insect.

jadarnel27

@Duncan I received most of those downvotes after disagreements with other users on the site. Explaining downvotes, for instance.

Shadow Wizard

> seen 38s ago, talked 365d ago

jadarnel27

And thank you for the vote, though I wasn't looking for any =) It's not a great question, though it's not terrible either.

Shadow Wizard

@TimStone maybe she use a bot? 365 days since her last chat message :)

Tim Stone

3:47 PM

Exactly a year, that's pretty good timing.

jadarnel27

@ShadowWizard Haha, perhaps I exaggerated a bit when I said "all those questions."

Shadow Wizard

@jadarnel27 perhaps indeed :D

jadarnel27

It's more like I look at them, and feel silly for having asked them.

Because they seem very obvious now.

Shadow Wizard

@jadarnel27 happens to the best... except of course Jon Skeet

jadarnel27

I was just (somewhat recently) talking about @Rebecca not being around since she left SE.

hichris123

3:49 PM

@jadarnel27 I think this will give you the 35 people with the least downvotes on Meta.

With 100+ posts.

Shadow Wizard

@jadarnel27 she probably heard you.... ;)

Joe

least? most?

jadarnel27

Ha, well done @hichris.

I guess you'd have to exclude CW posts to get @TimStone on that list.

hichris123

@jadarnel27 I looked, but it seemed like CW's were still Q's or A's in terms of PostTypeId.

Duncan

@hichris123 that link needs more columns!

hichris123

3:52 PM

@Duncan Hey, I'm a minimalist guy. :P

Redsandro

@ShadowWizard @rene @Duncan @JeroenVannevel thanks for the response. I still think nothing bad was done, just popular area of expertise. I'd rather get rid of all that rep through bounties but ah well, at least the rep didn't come out of my wallet. ;)

Joe

@hichris123 Shouldn't you change the query to min. 100 votes-of-any-sort? Otherwise it's just a list of people who have 100+ downvotes in ascending order.

IE, if somebody has 3 downvotes and 3245 upvotes...

they wouldn't be on that lsit

or do I not understand what you're doing

rene

@Redsandro what? Reputation != bitcoins

jadarnel27

I haven't used it, but I think you need to check the "CommunityOwnedDate" field (on the Posts table) to see if it's CW, @hichris.

hichris123

@Joe I just was counting the number of downvotes people got who had 100+ posts.

@jadarnel27 Good idea. That should be simple to implement.

jadarnel27

3:59 PM

Also: I find your lack of SQL indentation disturbing.

hichris123

Me no cares about indentation. If you want to make it pretty, do so.

Without CW's

rene

Is there somebody with enough rep in android to see if my comment makes sense: meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/215523/…

hichris123

It removes around 7 people who don't have 100 CW's

@rene I would but don't have 10K. Could you post a screenshot of the answer?

Duncan

@rene You are correct.

It is an answer.

The correct answer, AFAICT.

Joe

@hichris123 I don't think it is counting downvotes, as far as I can tell

the answer isn't reasonable, for one

I doubt every single person with 100+ posts has 100+ downvotes

Duncan

4:03 PM

@Joe How so

hichris123

This is on meta, keep that in mind.

Joe

Hmm

perhaps

just doesn't seem reasonable to me that 100% of people with 100 posts have 172+ downvotes

OGHaza

it's the same for SO, something is definitely wrong

Joe

count(*) from U lj P lj V

not sure that would count V's

Rebecca Chernoff

@TimStone oy (:

Joe

4:04 PM

that would count P's

realistically

ElfSlice

100 downvotes for 100 posts doesn't seem like too much of a stretch

Joe

plus Vs

Redsandro

@rene that is exactly what I said. :)

Tim Stone

@RebeccaChernoff Didn't think you could get away unnoticed, did you? :p

rene

imgur.com/g0oV89Z

Joe

4:05 PM

since you're LJing P table, every post will count once

you should count(V.id) or something

instead of *

OGHaza

ah yeah, that's it

Duncan

@Joe Sorry, I thought you were talking about @rene's issue!

hichris123

Looks like the right answer to me, @rene

Duncan

@rene Are you formulating a counter-answer for that meta question? I don't want to steal your thunder if you are.

rene

@Duncan @hichris123 can you provide an answer?

Duncan

4:06 PM

Sure

rene

I'm fine if you take it

hichris123

I'll let Duncan do it.

rene

I'll downvote the current answer

Can someone ask friendly at Oded to review his comment?

Duncan

Good spot, @rene.

I should have made my answer CW. Can I do that now I've posted it?

Yup, found it.

OGHaza

@Joe, I think it's only showing user's that have at least 100 down voted posts

Rebecca Chernoff

4:11 PM

@TimStone I mean, I was neither trying to nor trying not to, so...

Joe

@OGHaza I think it's just not quite formulated right

Tim Stone

@RebeccaChernoff ...technicalities!

OGHaza

How about this: data.stackexchange.com/meta/query/158860/least-downvotes

for least down votes, 100+ posts

Joe

I think, at least for the original query (and yours gives the same result for Atwood), you're joining incorrectly

Look at data.stackexchange.com/meta/query/158848/least-downvotes

OGHaza

yeah fuck it

Joe

4:16 PM

The first big list from Atwood has 11 or 12 downvotes

but the actual post only has 6 downvotes

it's joining on P.ID not on U.id

so something is off there

oh, wait

nevermind, that's actually ok

I misread the answer...

he had two answers on the same question, lol

hichris123

The Android app lies to me. It tells me I have 2K rep but I'm at 1850.

ElfSlice

Rounding is the best!

hichris123

But it lies!

> You need at least 2k reputation to review Suggested Edits.

According to the Android app, I do.

So which is the liar? :P

Joe

According to you, Craig Biggio should be in the hall of fame then ;)

Duncan

@rene The darker truth:

@Duncan & rene The answer, at the time it was deleted, was "I have the same issue, do you find a solution ?" The author edited it to the given answer after it was deleted. — Servy 1 min ago

hichris123

4:24 PM

@Duncan Wow.

Joe

Iiiinteresting.

Do deleted answers get put in some sort of undelete queue like reopen votes/

?

rene

oops

Joe

if edited?

Jeroen Vannevel

@Joe Not as far as I know

You have to flag your own answer for mod attention

Joe

which seems easier to just post a new answer, unless you're a low rep user who gets answer-banned I guess

hichris123

4:26 PM

I almost wonder if someday I'll get answer-banned because I delete quite a few answers because I think I know the answer but I really don't.

Shadow Wizard

@Joe not really but there is "Recently deleted" section in the 10K tools

Jeroen Vannevel

@hichris123 You've got 1850 rep, you'll need a lot of deleted answers to get to an answer ban

Shadow Wizard

Users sometimes skim through this list to find posts deleted by accident

hichris123

@JeroenVannevel I never really know, though, since no one will reveal criteria for Q and A bans.

Rebecca Chernoff

@TimStone mwuahahaha.

Shadow Wizard

4:29 PM

@JeroenVannevel if user got 1000 rep from edits only and post bad answers... he will get banned quickly. Pure rep has small weight as far as I can tell.

@RebeccaChernoff welcome back, Rebecca!

hichris123

@ShadowWizard I've only got like 100 rep from edits. But for a general user, you're probably right.

Duncan

I always find it funny when you get a couple of rep points for doing a wiki edit as a "high rep" user under 20k.

Rebecca Chernoff

@ShadowWizard allo

Anna Lear

hey, it's an rchern! :)

jadarnel27

I think you spelled "(:" wrong, @Anna.

Anna Lear

4:39 PM

I did. :( err. ):

ElfSlice

@AnnaLear mogigrumbles.bandcamp.com/album/i-heard-you-were-dead

=]

Duncan

Great answer...

660

A: Produce the number 2014 without any numbers in your source code

Python (52 bytes) print sum(ord(c) for c in 'Happy new year to you!')

@Duncan Ha. Awesome

@ElfSlice ooh, nice.

@AnnaLear heh.

4:46 PM

-1

Q: Sorting a list while keeping a few elements always at the top

We have a List<Country> which holds the list of countries in alphabetical order sorted by the countryName. class Country { int id; String countryCode; String countryName; } Country is an entity object and we don't have access to the source (it's in a jar file that is shared by many ...

I don't believe this should've been closed as a duplicate

It uses a comparator, but the clue is in doing more than just a normal comparator implementation

rene

@JeroenVannevel I don't have any rep in java but assuming the concepts in c# doesn't differ that much I would say you are correct.

Undo

Hiya @RebeccaChernoff!

jadarnel27

Ooh. The off topic reasons just changed on SO.

Undo

@jadarnel27 Huh wha?

goes to close something

jadarnel27

There's one about typos now.

hichris123

4:51 PM

@jadarnel27 Really?

jadarnel27

And it replaced the "minimal understanding" and "show you code" reasons.

Undo

@hichris123 Yup

hichris123

> This question was caused by a problem that can't be reproduced or a simple typographical error. While similar questions may be on-topic here, this one was solved in a manner unlikely to help future readers. This can often be avoided by identifying and closely inspecting the shortest program necessary to reproduce the problem before posting.

Undo

So... we got Too Localized back

Anna Lear

@Undo in a better defined form, yes

Undo

4:52 PM

Yay!

Now we need to be able to filter the review queue by off-topic subreasons.

Rebecca Chernoff

@Undo yo

hichris123

2

A: Improving "demonstrate a minimal understanding"

Take #3: Catching camels, not gnats First off, a big thanks to everyone who pitched in here - trying to distill a broad class of (often ill-defined) problems into a clear, helpful bit of guidance is quite a challenge - I'm happy to see so many folks willing to take a crack at it. In particular,...

Okay, right one now.

Undo

So what's going to happen to votes on old off-topic reasons?

hichris123

Ask meta.

Undo

Ok

What's going to happen to votes on the old off-topic reasons? — Undo 6 secs ago

hichris123

4:57 PM

Nothing, @Undo. — Shog9 2 mins ago

Undo

Ok.

3ventic

> They stick around in the system as-is, with the reason intact - however, that reason is unavailable for new votes.

hichris123

Thanks, saw Shog edited but it wouldn't update.

hichris123

5:17 PM

It's kind of annoying when the asker of a question doesn't visit the site after they ask it. I actually want to know if my answer helped them.

Like here:

-1

Q: Error on the Android Intent Service

Hello i have a Problem with my Code.I want to play the Music in the Background and this will function with the Intent Service of Android. But my SDk give me a Error if I implement the line. Radio.java public class Radio extends Activity implements OnCompletionListener, OnPreparedListener, OnErr...

android service

Jan Dvorak

can we get this guy IP-banned? askubuntu.com/questions/403003/…

Undo

@JanDvorak IP bans are pretty much ineffective these days.

Anna Lear

I destroyed the user. If he keeps coming back, new accounts should also be destroyed. Then our ~~crime-fighting~~ spam-fighting systems will start throttling him.

Jan Dvorak

I've seen him create a lot of accounts

hichris123

@AnnaLear Did you leave the user's milk out? :P

Sathya

5:31 PM

@RebeccaChernoff O_o

Rebecca Chernoff

@Sathya O:

Sathya

@RebeccaChernoff (:

jadarnel27

I know it's been discussed ad nauseum, but the treatment of self-answered questions is frustrating. And inconsistent.

And stupid.

Jan Dvorak

@jadarnel27 the official rules are consistent. Do you have a case where the community has acted otherwise?

jadarnel27

5:48 PM

@Jan True, the rules are consistent =) I feel like they often get downvoted / closed unfairly.

The specific post that came to my attention today was this one @Jan.

The question and answer both had two downvotes, and it got closed.

Jan Dvorak

@jadarnel27 it seems to me that there's not enough information in the question to provide a clear answer

Tommy provided a good explanation of his stance, and I must say I agree

Yes, you can answer your own question. However, posting a question due to having a localize, potentially coding error, one off example to only post an answer to it is not the theme of this site. How many times do developers, during the course of the day, have a bad compile or bad return value. If everyone posted a question and answer of, well I did x, but if I had did y, it would have worked, will dilute the value of a collective knowledge base. — Tommy 12 hours ago

jadarnel27

I think it improved the "collective knowledge base" because it explains why one would get that error when calling that method. I can't find other sources on the net that explain that.

Anna Lear

I disagree. It might not be the best of questions, but closing it is a bit much.

Jan Dvorak

It already has a reopen vote

hichris123

Anna bindingly reopened it.

Undo

5:53 PM

Yay!

Yay for reopening!

Jan Dvorak

I don't know enough of the subject to cast a vote

Undo

(BTW, anyone that wants to join us for a live space launch (with live streams!) can go here)

hichris123

@Undo The reason for your enthusiasm escapes me. :P

Undo

status-bydesign

:P

jadarnel27

If posted code, and the specific error it was throwing, and asked why that was happening, I certainly wouldn't expect that to be closed, @Jan.

Unless it was being closed as a dupe.

(That's a bit of a generalization, but I hope I'm making sense)

Jan Dvorak

5:57 PM

It often happens (at least in some tags) that the code given doesn't reproduce the problem claimed. I guess it's a valid move to close it then, isn't it?

jadarnel27

Yeah, I've seen that. Heck, I've participated in that.

Joe

I think it's really hard to concretely state which 'bug/error' questions are acceptable and which are not (especially with the new typo/bug localized whatever OT reason). There is some value in ALL errors - heck, in sas there are some errors that are highly difficult to debug because the error message is insane but it's actually a missing semicolon;

those have some value to post because it's an error you likely won't see unless you are missing a semicolon, but do we really want missing semicolons posted as Q/As?

Jan Dvorak

I've heard the criterion - is the error related to the problem description?

if a weird error message only ever is caused by a missing semicolon, it might be worthwhile to keep one such question on the site

jadarnel27

I think comparing that issue to a typo / syntax error is a bit much, @Joe.

Jan Dvorak

@jadarnel27 what are the criteria for bad syntax error questions / good syntax error questions?

jadarnel27

6:05 PM

I think that question has value for future visitors Googling that error message, associated with that function call. It says to the person, "oh, maybe I should check my data model."

Jan Dvorak

but, that's not the case of most typo questions

most of the typo questions are like "my if condition isn't working". If you're lucky, the question is properly tagged, not all-caps and describes the desired behavior.

jadarnel27

I think questions that are purely about typos should be closed. You misspelled a variable name, for instance.

I don't think the example I gave is such a question.

Jan Dvorak

It was reopened, after all

jadarnel27

True.

Thanks, @Anna.

Anna Lear

np

Joe

6:24 PM

@jadarnel27 The point is that it's some sort of sliding scale. At one end are obviously useful notes about "this bad behavior is caused by this set of circumstances", like "check that httpd is running if your web server isn't responding", and at the other end are typos and trivial syntax errors that probably shouldn't be here, but where is the line?

jadarnel27

@Joe Why does there have to some specific line? I say evaluate each post individually, based on it's merits.

I know we, as humans, like to put things in little boxes, and say "if this and this and this then close the question." But I don't think we can really do that in this situation.

If the question is appropriate for Stack Overflow (it's not a shopping question, etc), and it's useful, keep it.

If it's a crappy, pointless, unhelpful question, toss it.

hichris123

@jadarnel27 I'd agree with you on that. Self-answered questions really are kind of an exclusion to some rules, because do you really want the person to draw out every step they struggled with just to have them give an answer?

Laszlo Papp

6:40 PM

WTF? The obsolete flag for this comment was declined? stackoverflow.com/questions/21024220/…

Sounds like a moderator mistake. I will re-flag it.

is it worth bringing up on meta?

Jan Dvorak

I can't see why the comment should be considered obsolete

hichris123

@LaszloPapp No, maybe custom comment flag it and say it's obsolete because you edited your answer to fix that/include the info.

animuson

^ That.

Laszlo Papp

@JanDvorak: what??? How is that relevant to the current answer ???

@hichris123: is it not tad obvious?

What else would be the reason for this case? I will bring it up on meta so the person who declined can speak up ....

Perhaps, I can learn something new....

Joe

I wouldn't bother posting it on meta

it's obvious, the moderator didn't realize it was a comment to a totally different answer

hence the very reasonable suggestion of hichris123

Laszlo Papp

6:48 PM

Nah, I am tired of this stuff.

I will leave the mess in there.

tombull89

Has anyone tried loading the Sandbox thread with IE? I tried with IE 11 earlier and it crashed the tab.

Laszlo Papp

Frankly, I lose my motivation to help to clean up the mess if even a moderator does not pay attention to reading a super short answer.

hichris123

You have to remember mods are really busy and get thousands of flags per day.

Joe

On a different note, does the 'move this discussion to chat" come up if the user has too little rep to chat?

Shadow Wizard

@RebeccaChernoff so, what brings you back here? :-)

Jeroen Vannevel

6:50 PM

@Joe Yes, I believe it does

They just can't start it themselves

Laszlo Papp

@hichris123: that is not an excuse. Do as much as you can, but in a quality manner.

Jeroen Vannevel

Oh wait, too little rep to chat? Is there such a thing?

Joe

I more mean, I have that message but i'm worried if I do move it, the user won't be able to chat with me

Laszlo Papp

Let us get less work done, but more professionally.

hichris123

@Jerone 20 rep.

Joe

6:51 PM

I think so, isn't there?

Laszlo Papp

We do not need a lot of stuff done in a bad way.

Joe

ah

oh, 15 is ok then

I thought it was 50

he has 21 :)

Laszlo Papp

I am sure if they needed more help, there would be further elections (or at least I hope...)

animuson

:o Rebecca!? puts on anti-pointy-stick armor

2

hichris123

@Joe Sorry, 20 is the right number. In between 15 and 25. :P

meta.stackoverflow.com/help/privileges/chat

Joe

6:52 PM

Lol. Thanks for gfty'ing that :)

Shadow Wizard

@animuson yup she's back.... or is she?

Laszlo Papp

Is it possible to "fix" the flag stats if it is justified that a moderator made a nasty mistake?

I really do not feel fair that someone else takes the negative consequence of their bad decision instead of they themselves.

animuson

No. Because no one really cares about the flag stats.

Laszlo Papp

that is incorrect

in fact, flag stats has a weight.

Joe

flag weights are so 2011

Laszlo Papp

6:55 PM

so the system does care about it.

animuson

Only you and moderators can even see them, and they don't affect your abilities to participate at all.

Anna Lear

"nasty mistake" is a decent term for something like accidentally deleting a user. dismissing a flag is super minor by comparison.

Joe

lol

"drop tables all"

Laszlo Papp

@AnnaLear: we will need to agree to disagree, I guess.

@animuson: NO, flag weight matters ... because due to others' mistake, your action will be considered less.

animuson

There is no flag weight.

Anna Lear

6:56 PM

Yeah, flag weight was removed a few months ago.

hichris123

It's now (helpful flags - declined flags) / 10 = number of flags you get per day.

Joe

So this particular flag costs you 0.1 flags.

although I think there's an upper limit at some point to number of flags, isn't there?

hichris123

100 = max flags/day

I'm maxed. :P

Laszlo Papp

Right, so someone else's clear mistake causes issues for me. How is that fair, really? I definitely think the fairness could be improved in here.

animuson

If you lose a penny, do you go searching for it?

Laszlo Papp

6:59 PM

I am happy to take the consequence for my mistakes, but I am not willing for others'.

Joe

Do you actually use all of your flags every day?

If not, then this costs you nothing.

If so, then at most it costs you 0.1 flags...

Laszlo Papp

irrelevant question, but yes, I use it from time to time.

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