@Spevacus care to comment your edit?

hmm

> around 15:30 UTC

lol my browser showed only 1 new message here, so didn't check, after reload it appeared.

@balpha my mom always told me "don't take cookies from strangers". ;)

We're on it. The security check didn't let the health check through, so the load balancer thought chat was broken.

For the record: it wasn't, actually

@SPArcheon-onstrike The continued implication that SE is doing potentially illegal stuff with no real follow-up/evidence to the affirmative serves to continue to fuel the fires against SE, and it's not central to the post anyway. I don't think it's very friendly to continue to suggest that SE's doing shady stuff legally speaking when they're not (or haven't yet).

That kind of rhetoric is why your "Is SE selling our data" post had a great bulk of the latest revisions reverted.

I should've left a revision comment when I made my edit. That's my bad.

@Spevacus Problem is, that is not an "Implication"

Oh, sorry. Direct accusation.

an automated decision making IS illegal.

Cared to read the link?

Not fully. Not invested enough, sorry!

So, that process WOULD be illegal.

Sure! And when it happens, feel free to make that accusation. For now, given that we're spitting into the wind about what SE plans to do, making that accusation right now errs on the side of unfriendly.

12 minutes!

@ShadowWizard I think an attempt was made, then an attempt was unmade?

@SPArcheon-onstrike well, personally? I don't think that's the hill we want to die on.

@JourneymanGeek hmm? ah, unrelated. :P

ah!

That's related ^

;)

But yeah, guess many things will happen in this time. :P

Wonder who here even know/remember what I'm doing in that hour. ;)

okay, next try

crossing fingers

we're alive!

pokes with stick to confirm

now try to break it!

gently please

@balpha I mean, its chat

what's the worst we can do? :D

@SPArcheon-onstrike I will say that the edit was motivated mostly because of how frequently you seemed to try to be nailing SE to the cross regarding legal stuff (apologies if that metaphor comes across stronger than I mean it to). It seemed, to me, like another step in a line of attack regarding their legal practices, and could do with removing. I apologize for being overly dismissive earlier. That wasn't conducive to proper discussion about it.

I'd also want to point out, even edited, its still there, and any staff who, well wanted to get the full context of the original post could?

Hello

(still my sockpuppet)

Couldn't upload a gif, but I think that was already a thing.

@Spevacus being a meta mod is fun innit? :D

@Spevacus I think "having common upload features" is very high on the "stuff I'd ask for if it'd happen" list :D

@JourneymanGeek (Not about SPA, just to be clear) - sigh - Yes, it really is. Drawing that line with behavior on Meta is soooo much harder than a regular site.

@Spevacus I mean, in general

Especially when you disagree with the company's actions, working out those lines are hard

(especially in times like this)

@JourneymanGeek Yeah. Seriously. One of the things I'm trying to do my best at is make sure Meta is a safe enough place for staff to come and, y'know, chat about what they're working on. Earnestly. That's tough when there's a lot of disagreement with the company at the moment (especially my own disagreements!) so part of me wants to ensure that those annoyances are aired, and sometimes part of me wants that to be done in a "Oh, come on, you boneheads!" way, but that runs against the CoC firstly, and secondly... It just isn't conducive to effecting actual change. And it's that latter part that I try and reference in messages regarding inappropriately engaging with staff: There's a way we build this bridge with the decision makers, and if each time we try and chat it involves being pissy... We're not gonna get anywhere.

@Spevacus On the other hand, some days, being nice and patient dosen't work either

Again, to be extremely clear, that "being pissy" comment doesn't refer to anyone in this room, just... gestures at past

I mean, I'm gonna do things the way I do but.

@JourneymanGeek Being annoying is important sometimes. The thing you kept poking about in the TL being one of them.

I often wonder if taking a more uh... agressive course of action might work better

@Spevacus Its exhausting after a while though. There's a good many things I'd like to see, with multi-year asking nicely

and sometimes anger, outrage and drama tend to be more noticable than quietly going "Hey! Now that you're working on <foo> can you do this?"

or the seemingly eternal windmill tilting over community hires

@balpha what's your reward for doing it right this time? Double coffee? ;)

ah let's check Smokey

!!/tea Spe

@ShadowWizard brews a cup of Earl Grey tea for @Spe

yay

Is i.sstatic.net not giving a secure connection to anyone else?

works on my machine

@Spevacus I seem to remember something about "moderating the post, not the user". Alas, you are free to go and also remove any "unneeded" pointing out that some recent actions don't seem to fly quite well with legal requirements, especially since you mentioned before the roll back of one revision (and not "many") on another specific question.

Alas, this time I mean it. I will stop my interaction here, so fell free to reply but I won't.

@ТymaGaidash can you give example full URL?

@SPArcheon-onstrike I just want you to know that I think your voice is important and I appreciate the heck out of you.

I have already pointed out what I wanted before. Enjoy the status quo.

Um, inbox messages leading to chat are borked folks

@M.A.R. Repro'd

Extra slash

@ShadowWizard On any i.sstatic.net URL it says “ Safari can't open the page because it couldn't establish a secure connection to the server” and “i.sstatic.net sent an invalid response” on a PC. Most images are blank with a blue question mark throughout stack exchange.

@balpha Inbox notifications to chat takes us to, for example: https://chat.meta.stackexchange.com//transcript/message/9975332#9975332 (note the extra slash before transcript) - Leads to a 404

@ShadowWizard in the recent years, more and more people secretly drink alcoholic beverages. It's an open secret. It's not a contentious topic, so it doesn't grab much attention, but everyone knows it's inevitable in a society losing trust in an Islamic government.

Honestly drinking alcohol is one of the top five mistakes the humans made probably.

Yes I'm biased.

oh no, looks like the upgrade caused one crash.

@M.A.R. Noooo

@ShadowWizard mostly UpToDate monographs on random stuff.

It barely makes the top ten if anything

@Tinkeringbell well the liver is one of the top five organs in the human body

@Spevacus yep thanks, on it

@ТymaGaidash no repro, but try to see in network inspector, what are the headers/error you get back from the server.

I have the updated 2024 organ ranking if you want

@balpha +1, consider this an upvote. ;)

@M.A.R. I don't know where your liver is at... I have at least an esophagus, two lungs, a heart and ehmmm eyeballs! above it :P

@M.A.R. what about dishonestly drinking it?

@Tinkeringbell @M.A.R. has three kidneys

Where's my upvote (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻

@Tinkeringbell depends on your frame of reference

@JourneymanGeek that's "blending in".

@ShadowWizard Die, resurrect, repeat.

Totally okay

@M.A.R. I don't think I want a frame of reference where it's in the top five XD that's probably a kind of frame of reference that means it's closer to any surface than it should be!

@balpha A million As?

@M.A.R. ah, so it's quite like drugs here in Israel. Still illegal, but many many do it anyway, it doesn't attract much attention and isn't enforced.

If authorities want, they can find and send to jail the big suppliers, cut their supply chain, etc.

But.. they don't, and it's fine.

Well the biggest distributors of alcohol here are probably pharmacies and I don't wanna go to jail.

I hear it smells.

@AndreascondemnsIsrael ah, but once it's done, it's done.

@M.A.R. you... sell alcohol? gasp

@Tinkeringbell and that's what alcohol will do to your liver!

:-D

@M.A.R. Naaaah

@ShadowWizard usually for disinfecting the outsides, not the insides.

@M.A.R. Could a pharmacist really be jailed if their pharmacy gave alcohol to someone who drank it?

I mean, it has denatonium benzoate, but you hear stories . . .

@M.A.R. but you can't know what people will do with it. ;)

@M.A.R. jail? Only the soap.

@Tinkeringbell no, I wasn't being serious

Oh pfew

You had me pseudo worried there!

There's a lot of stuff in a pharmacy that can land you in jail or worse, sold to the wrong person.

Yeah

@ТymaGaidash oh wait, so you can see some, but not all?

But the challenge here is Iranians have this culture of treating pharmacies like supermarkets, and buying drugs they have no idea about.

My grandpa had some opiates when he died. My brother was kinda disappointed mom returned those dutifully to the pharmacy, instead of just selling them for 400 euros a pill XD

@M.A.R. that's why prescription should be required... (and then it's the doctor who gave it fault if it's wrong.)

@M.A.R. Wait, you don't need prescriptions?

I'm coming shopping too :P

@Tinkeringbell oh wow. But yeah, very noble of mother. ;)

!!/alive

@Spevacus You should totally drop that and use jQuery

@ShadowWizard She works in a caregiver job. She kinda has to :P

@SmokeDetector lol

@Tinkeringbell ah, fair! :D

@Tinkeringbell for most drugs that are in theory Rx-only, yeah. People just buy them like mint pills.

@Tinkeringbell Here as well. If you give it to minors.

@M.A.R. Wow

@AndreascondemnsIsrael Eh, technically true. If you sell alcohol to minors, that's an offense but not one that'll land you in jail: fines or losing your license to sell are more likely

At least that's the two I've heard as consequences, never jail

Over here. Does Norway jail people for it? Really?

@Tinkeringbell well perhaps if the minor then drive, crash, and it involve actual body harm. In that case, the seller took active part in something leading to injury, or worse.

@Tinkeringbell so a constant question when I'm dispensing drugs in the pharmacy is "Can this person commit suicide with the pills I'm giving them?"

Fun

@M.A.R. I still don't get how anyone can buy drugs that should be prescription only?

No law about it in Iran?

At the same time, some pills like Xanax are addictive but if the patient abruptly stops taking them, the withdrawal symptoms are dangerous.

So when someone comes in and wants some Xanax, Sherlock Holmes has got nothing on me while I decide in a split second whether or not I'd be selling them any.

This is why prescriptions are required here :)

FTR, Valium is a much milder drug than Xanax.

@ShadowWizard the law isn't being enforced since no single entity has had the power to stand against the sheer cultural force of people treating pharmacies like supermarkets.

@Tinkeringbell Possibly. Depends on how much, I guess.

@M.A.R. but who is the weak point? I mean, if a person asks for a drug which is prescription only, and that person does not have prescription, just don't give him the drug, and if he make trouble, call security.

No?

@M.A.R. It was at this point that Andreas changed his opinion of the Iranian leadership. He now realized they are the only solution for the crazy population.

@M.A.R. and on the other hand, if doctors give prescriptions freely without any check just by request, it's their fault.

@ShadowWizard then they will just insult me and my past generations and successfully buy it from the pharmacy two blocks away.

No, but it's a real issue in many countries, not just Iran. Apparently, you can buy quite a lot from street pharmacies in for instance Bangladesh and India. Or so I heard. Or maybe that was other stuff, like antiobiotics. Generally safe if you use them correctly, quite a problem for global health.

That's of course assuming it's the humane thing to turn them away. What if it's an octogenarian that can barely walk that needs some blood pressure medication since his doctor's visit is scheduled for tomorrow?

@M.A.R. won't work here, as far as I've seen and know, it's set in stone. Pharmacy won't give you prescription only drug, and if they do, and someone report, it would lead to fines, losing license, and maybe jail as well. (To the one giving the drug.) But yeah, guess it's just a "bad habit" that somehow stuck in culture. We have enough of those as well, in other areas. :/

@Chicken Only a chicken would say that.

@ShadowWizard that's actually a much milder problem nowadays. It's prevalent elsewhere. Didn't that Friends actor die because an irresponsible doctor was prescribing a ton of ketamine?

@M.A.R. yup, and Michael Jackson as well.

Though the Friends actor committed suicide afaik, the doctor might have just not stopped it.

Jackson never intended to die, I think.

Let me see a sec...

@M.A.R. The answer is always yes.

You can commit suicide with water too, if you'd wanted. Not a pretty way to go I guess, nor easy, but possible

With healthcare, band-aid laws that ban this or that are bound to fail to save lives, which is supposed to be the ultimate goal. It's the same in any industry where a single service is rendered by many people, I guess.

They might get some from you, some from the pharmacy two blocks over.. some...

Silicon valley, for example. Whenever American lawmakers get on their high horses for an upcoming election or whatever, get Zuck to come drink some glasses of water, he always finds a loophole to keep making profit and defeat the purpose of the new laws, bans, whatever.

@M.A.R. ah well, looks like it wasn't intended as well. (About Matthew Perry)

@Tinkeringbell you can just... drown in them?

@Tinkeringbell Somebody died by chainsaw over here yesterday. That's another way to go out.

@ShadowWizard of course it wasn't. Healthcare people are greedy for money, we're not psychos. Most of the time.

@AndreascondemnsIsrael "יhere" means your country? Neighbourhood? Also, accident? Or, eh, not?

@M.A.R. ah, I mean not suicide. :)

@Spevacus fixed

@ShadowWizard yeah, it's unfortunately a very predictable case. Laws were written to prevent exactly that.

@balpha Huh, looks like you added the double-slash'd chat.meta.stackexchange.com//transcript/X as an acceptable alias for a single slash vesion?

@ShadowWizard Murder. In the country. 300-400 km from here/home.

@Spevacus yeah I kinda had no choice, all the old inbox links have the same format

We just never noticed I guess

Huh! Ain't that something.

The old .NET just silently accepted it

> There's always a choice.

@AndreascondemnsIsrael ah. Ouch.

@balpha but we did.

:D

@ShadowWizard Actually, 300-400 km, that was the other murder and abuse the day before. This one was in Northern Norway.

@ShadowWizard Of course you did 😅 In my defense, I wasn't working here at the time 😄

chat.meta.stackexchange.com/transcript/89?m=9974927#9974927: @ShadowWizard

@balpha ok, you are spared my wrath.

:D

@AndreascondemnsIsrael ah, which is how many km away from you?

Torchforks and pitches have been returned to the armories.

@Marco oops, missed due to ping overflow.

@Spevacus but not the most lethal weapon: keyboard!

@Marco UAV hit our PM private house a week ago.

(blocked by the window though.)

Live test for a Bulletproof glass Window.

@ShadowWizard Ok, no problem!! :D

@ShadowWizard Well, I saw it, but it was the second time that this happened, right? The first time was at his vacation home if I'm not mistaken, and he wasn't there.

@Marco well, I do have "failsafe" mechanism to check for old pings and reply to them if I didn't, but it might take even few days.

@ShadowWizard wow, nice :D

@Marco nope, only one time. He doesn't really have "vacation home", just his official home in Jerusalem, which belongs to the current PM of Israel, and his own private home, where he usually stay during weekends.

We did have other UAV hit, and kill some soldiers, week before that.

(it hit directly inside a dining hall in a base.)

Strange, because I saw this news a few days ago, and it gave the impression that it happened again "now" because they started talking about it again.

@Marco probably they mean the previous UAV hit, which wasn't against the PM home, but army base.

Hmmm

Also, few days indeed, maybe not a full week.

Holiday here now, so hard to keep track of the days.

Was the house substantially hit?

@Marco nope, only minor damage, and think couple of trees fell.

And he wasn't there, of course. (which Iran knew as well.)

Hmm, how would Iran know he was there?

I also saw that Israel installed THAAD anti-missile system there, supplied by the USA.

@Marco heh. I'm sure they know.

Anyway, that's the damage:

@Marco it's all over Israel, yeah.

But I don't think it's useful against UAV's.

Hmm... and it seems they sent 2 drones on purpose, so that one would hit the iron dome, and the other wouldn't.

@ShadowWizard Very nice

@Marco three, yeah. Two were intercepted, one wasn't.

@ShadowWizard Wow :(

@ShadowWizard Whoa

Why are drones harder to detect?

@Marco slow, flying low, no heat.

@ShadowWizard Are they more lethal than drones?

I think these days only helicopters can take them down, manually. And in Ukraine it's actual soldiers, on vehicles, with guns.

@ShadowWizard wow

@ShadowWizard This is how they were overthrown?

@Marco most likely.

@ShadowWizard Taking down without a helicopter must be very difficult

@ShadowWizard hmm

Impressive how a rocket/missile can be automatically detected but not a UAV.

What is the probability of a building in Israel being hit by a missile/rocket? It seems that almost all of them are detected by defense systems.

@ShadowWizard Probably in the same distance.

@AndreascondemnsIsrael oh, I see. So not very close to you, good.

@Marco interception rate of those is 90%, so 10% chance of a hit.

All of them are detected, but not all intercepted.

@ShadowWizard Killers were caught on the same day in both of the cases.

But in reality, even after intercepted, the shards themselves, and the intercepting missiles, can still fall and cause damage/victims. I think two died this way by now.

@AndreascondemnsIsrael impressive. Here it take years for the police to find killers, on average, and many times they never find.

And when it comes to crime in the Arab population, it's perhaps 1 to 1000 solved cases, police won't even try. (I mean Arab population who are Israel citizens)

That sucks :(

@ShadowWizard Mostly everyone is caught here (assuming the case is correctly recognized as a murder, and not an accident, suicide or natural death). The rest go on as mysteries.

@Spevacus yup

@AndreascondemnsIsrael yeah, well, it's matter of funds, equipment, and good leadership of the police. Here we have none of those.

Funds go to political stuff only, equipment is actually part of funds, and leadership of police is busy with politics as well.

@ShadowWizard So you need more honest and well-intentioned politicians. Have you considered running?

@AndreascondemnsIsrael :D

Shadow The PM Wizard

Sounds good.

Unfortunately, I am not allowed to vote in that election.

@AndreascondemnsIsrael pity!

But you can help me by supplying bananas.

And on other news, Kenny is hot!

@ShadowWizard So damn hot!

I know!

Throwing bananas over @Sha

Go fix the world, now.

@ShadowWizard Wow, I think that is a high interception rate

@AndreascondemnsIsrael @Sha is honest enough but well-intentioned? Have you been to his Den?

But that's only considering automatic shooting down, right? Because when the automatic system fails, there are fighter aircrafts that shoot down them, right?

@ShadowWizard Wow, awesome!

And I imagine the new THAADs will help increase the 90% automatic interception probability rate.

@M.A.R. Banana intentions?

@AndreascondemnsIsrael maybe if you trolled people less you wouldn't be suspended from voting in the election mister! puts on mom glasses

@AndreascondemnsIsrael he would paint the streets yellow

@ShadowWizard where the heck is Kenny? I could borrow some of those degrees.

It's dropped to single digits the past few days and I'm cold all the time.

Celsius, I might add. My gun affinity is too low for reporting temperature in that other unit.

@AndreascondemnsIsrael yay! going

@Marco it is. :)

@M.A.R. well at least my intentions are clear. :-D

@Marco heh, no such thing currently. Nothing is automatic, so far.

@ShadowWizard What do you mean? Aren't iron domes and THAADs automatic?

Actual people look on screens 24/7 to detect. When they do, they tell those who intercept, who manually fire the interceptor giving the required details, perhaps making live changes when it's in the air.

@Marco dunno about THAAD, but Iron Dome isn't, most likely. I'll try to look for something.

@ShadowWizard hey I know! Let's ask chatGPT to intercept missiles

lol

@Marco don't think so, they're just backup, I think. e.g. when we run out of interceptors.

@ShadowWizard How surprising

@ShadowWizard hmm, ok

@ShadowWizard hmm

@ShadowWizard okay so isn't the fancy thing about THAAD the fact that it can lock onto targets outside the atmosphere? When will Israel need to nuke missiles in the orbit?

@M.A.R. yeah, we also have such missile, but probably no big supply of those.

@M.A.R. What? That's a defense

I guess somehow that military budget has to be justified. If it goes to, I dunno, welfare, weak non-CEO people might live a little bit more easily and we can't have that

@ShadowWizard Awesomeee

Anyway turns out you're pretty much correct, Iron Dome appears to be mostly automatic, but still - the initial decision to fire it is totally manual, and I'm sure the operator also give it vital details that can't be automated. @Mar

@ShadowWizard Very nice, thanks!!

@Marco Russian military has less than 1/15th of the US military's budget. What imaginary missiles is America shooting down with these defense systems?

@M.A.R. yep, that's also a major consideration. ;)

By definition, governments can't be accused of money laundering. But that's exactly what they're doing.

@M.A.R. still enough to have thousands of missiles, including nuclear, so better safe than sorry. Though of course there is also the factor of making money.

@M.A.R. You get way more for the same amount of money in Russia. ;)

@M.A.R. What are you trying to say? Are you saying that Russia + China are not a threat to the US?

@M.A.R. Make war, not welfare.

@Marco he says that countries spend more money than actually needed for defence systems, out of greed of the developers.

@ShadowWizard Appreciated.

@AndreascondemnsIsrael you get what you pay for.

I don't think the US is spending money for nothing, that is, defending itself excessively without needing to.

@Marco not nothing, but they could do fine with e.g. half than that.

Or something cheaper, etc.

@M.A.R. Yellow? And black? Lines?

@M.A.R. Not in Russia.

@AndreascondemnsIsrael of course that's what I meant of course

Well, let's assume that only half was needed, it's their money, the more security the better.

missed pings detected

@M.A.R. Me? What are you talking about? I’m as innocent as can be.

@M.A.R. in the Den! points left

@M.A.R. use blanket! :D

@Marco economics is never just more of one thing. More military means less education, less healthcare, less everything else.

@M.A.R. faren-hate?

@M.A.R. That's merelly your opinion, not facts.

@M.A.R. no, I grew up. Not in the streets anymore!

:D

By the way, are you worried about the quality of education in the US? I doubt it.

Maybe America can work on the fact that like half of Americans are one broken limb away from bankruptcy. Preparing for a nuclear war making redundant missile systems 50 times over is not more important than fixing broken healthcare for 100 million Americans.

@M.A.R. Why, so you can rotate faster?

@Marco um, no it isn't. If I say water is H2O that's not my opinion. What I said is the basic tenet of economics.

Tent?

@ShadowWizard hmm, I'm a bit skeptical.

@M.A.R. come and see.

@ShadowWizard Tenet. The movie with the bullets flying backwards.

;)

@M.A.R. ah!

@M.A.R. I don't agree, but feel free to express your opinion.

We are not talking about if water = H2O.

@M.A.R. Military and aeorospace industry is a big political game of jobs in the US.

@AndreascondemnsIsrael isn't everything part of the big political game?

@ShadowWizard Not ants in your keyboard.

@AndreascondemnsIsrael sure they are. They were sent by the government to spy on me.

@Marco If America spends 100 million less on its military, it will spend that money elsewhere. I don't know what's disagreeable about this. If you move your apples from one basket to another, one basket will have fewer apples, and another will have more.

@ShadowWizard Ah, yes, that's true. Your insights are astonishing, I wish I had equally good sources. But I'll take your word for it.

@M.A.R. not if the other basket has a hole in it, then you lose those apples.

@M.A.R. The math is not that simple, but anyway, go ask the US presidency or capitol if your math is correct.

@AndreascondemnsIsrael thanks for the trust! :D

@Marco which? Current, or in two weeks the new one?

@Marco okay, so what do you think? What's complicated part about the math?

@ShadowWizard Whatever

Well I have to leave you for now, dishes time, then, well, night chores. Cya!

@Marco what's this referring to? The US is funding terrorists?

Keep the Tavern clean, and the toilet paper is in the right shelf, above the sink.

@M.A.R. They are. :)

@M.A.R. If I'm a billionaire and I spend money on 10 Ferraris, that doesn't mean I'm not spending money on my education.

Is American healthcare the terrorist? I mean maybe, but I'm confused.

@ShadowWizard Enjoy the night. :)

@M.A.R. ah, I think he means Iran and Hezbollah. etc.

@M.A.R. I'm saying that there are many terrorist financiers around the world, some of whom think they're spending their money well, but many of them aren't, just like you think the US doesn't spend its money well, and others who think they spend it well.

@ShadowWizard Of course, exactly

@Marco (1) if you instead buy 8 Ferraries, you will have more money for everything else. (2) Money is not limitless in any sane economical evaluation system that I know of.

@ShadowWizard Aha. So I'm criticizing America spending too much money on its military, and not enough on healthcare and education, but I have no right because the Iranian government is funding Hezbollah?

Money is limitless, it’s the resources that aren’t.

Furthermore, the people of the United States, who are represented by the Capitol, are the ones who decide where to spend the money, so that is their problem.

@M.A.R. That's your opinion, and don't tell me to do anything.

No one in any government in the world can influence how said government spends their resources directly.

@M.A.R. No problem

@ShadowWizard Good night!!!

@M.A.R. Close the door here, open the door at Codidact.

@ShadowWizard Haha, ok :D