Tavern on the Meta

I know I learned the difference between the usage of farther and further in school, but I can never remember where each one should be used. Can someone help me out here?

starball

LYGTFM := letted you google that for me

(and yes, I said "letted" as a joke)

Shadow Wizard Chasing Stars

8:53 AM

gaslighting!

Journeyman Geek

→ 21 messages moved to Chimney

starball

9:35 AM

oh

oh no

look at all those chickens

is:question closed:no -[self-answer] self-answer [discussion]

network-wide discussion posts that say "self-answer" but aren't tagged with self-answer

I thought I must have gotten most of them. There were 366 tagged self-answer

This search query of the non-tagged ones has 2964 posts D:

hi JNat!

Shadow Wizard Chasing Stars

@starball that's terrible! End of MSE!

How people dare missing a tag!

editing all 1000+ questions to add the tag

Journeyman Geek

@starball a casual look shows instant-self-answer and self-answering flags

starball

oh that's good

@ShadowWizardChasingStars honest question please don't kill me: how annoying would it be if I went and did that?

Shadow Wizard Chasing Stars

@starball super, and you'll get suspended, once a mod did exactly that and got himself de-modded and suspended for a while.

starball

oh wow. ok

Shadow Wizard Chasing Stars

9:43 AM

(the mod decided to single handedly remove some tag, editing hundreds of questions in a row)

starball

then I will definitely not do that

Shadow Wizard Chasing Stars

@starball yeah, I'd say reasonable limit is 5 per day.

Journeyman Geek

@starball Very

starball

is it because the bumping is annoying?

Journeyman Geek

So - I once wanted to remove a tag with several hundred (thousand?) uses on SU

Shadow Wizard Chasing Stars

9:44 AM

@starball yes, and hides the fresh contents.

Journeyman Geek

had meta consensus ...

did it over 2 years

@starball Some people use the newest first front page extensively

starball

ah

Shadow Wizard Chasing Stars

Personally I'm against minor edits of old posts, even if correct edits, but that's already just me. (It just brings back ancient stuff that's no longer relevant back to top.)

Journeyman Geek

So the general way to 'fix' tags is to make a meta post per site, get some degree of support then slowly do your edits

and once again, and I love pointing this out

consider how much actual good your effort does

starball

thanks for teaching me

so are burninations like a special sanctioned exception?

Shadow Wizard Chasing Stars

9:46 AM

@JourneymanGeek +1

Journeyman Geek

@starball hmm

a 'proper' burnination by CM involves a special tool

starball

I did a burnination once and then that made me think it must be ok to do a lot of edits. I didn't know at the time how much process and community decision-making goes into burninations

Shadow Wizard Chasing Stars

@starball why exception? One must not go and burninate tag alone, should ask on the meta site first.

Journeyman Geek

The editing based burnination is a workaround cause we can't get CMs to do it a lot of the time

starball

community managers do burninations? :O

Journeyman Geek

9:48 AM

@starball there's a meta post about this

starball

that's a lot of work for a CM. did not know that was part of their job description.

Shadow Wizard Chasing Stars

@starball they can run some script that makes non-bumping edits afaik

starball

fancy

Shadow Wizard Chasing Stars

Probably Shog's doing

He had access both to codebase and database, very useful. ;)

Journeyman Geek

127

Q: When to burninate

Upon seeing this question, I took a look at the user tag, and it currently has 1366 unanswered questions, and 4326 total questions. Seeing as that's quite a lot, I thought I'd help with the burnination (am I correct in thinking the burnination is done by users?). However, I can't really tell when...

discussion tags burninate-system

@ShadowWizardChasingStars CMs with dev skills was a useful thing

Shadow Wizard Chasing Stars

9:58 AM

@JourneymanGeek yeah, that's gone now though.

Journeyman Geek

10:29 AM

@ShadowWizardChasingStars well we scaled beyond that

Journeyman Geek

10:45 AM

I vaguely recall they were looking for a PM for mod tools and they got people working on it

the thing is really how to get good feedback through quickly

SPArcheon

11:27 AM

> missed spam

Shadow Wizard Chasing Stars

11:39 AM

@SPArcheon yeah rare case when the website and/or words used are not yet blacklisted so it escaped Smokey detection.

Why didn't you report it to Smokey? Could have helped with future spam from same user.

SPArcheon

11:59 AM

@ShadowWizardChasingStars because that only works for a selected group of users?

Shadow Wizard Chasing Stars

@SPArcheon oh was sure you got privileges long ago already

!!/isprivileged SPArcheon

SmokeDetector

@ShadowWizardChasingStars No such command 'isprivileged'.

Shadow Wizard Chasing Stars

:(

@trip can you see if @SPA has privileges? (don't add yet if they don't, better ask if they want it in the first place. ;))

@star did you use your newly gained powers yet? :D

tripleee

12:16 PM

@ShadowWizardChasingStars no record of this user in github.com/Charcoal-SE/SmokeDetector/blob/master/users.yml

Shadow Wizard Chasing Stars

@tripleee oh, OK, pity, but maybe @SPA prefers the quiet life without burden of Smokey privileges. :P

And now @g3r is here, so....

!!/coffee g3r

SmokeDetector

@ShadowWizardChasingStars brews a cup of ristretto for @g3r

SPArcheon

@ShadowWizardChasingStars I have already the burden of filling the lack of kimonos in Equestria Girls since Hasbro finished the series without giving use a Japan-style episode

(Which is double annoying when you consider that you even have some beach episodes)

tripleee

for the record, please report undetected spam in the Charcoal room so that we can add it to metasmoke before it's gone

if you don't have the privileges to directly !!/report from here or via FSDC etc

SPArcheon

@tripleee good to know, problem is that I will have forgot this by the next time I will find undetected spam...

g3rv4

12:34 PM

@ShadowWizardChasingStars boo!

Shadow Wizard Chasing Stars

@SPArcheon that's terrible

SPArcheon

@ShadowWizardChasingStars ok, when @Tinkeringbell will drown in the pictures I will blame you then :P

This one is decent enough, as always AI struggles on hands

Boots

The overly sexualised schoolgirl manga is something I've always found really confusing about Japanese culture, especially the fact that it's widely accepted as "normal". Not that the photo above is in that sphere.

Shadow Wizard Chasing Stars

@g3rv4 runs away in terror and hiding in @starball's home

:P

@SPArcheon well the mighty Meta gave up on legs to begin with, knowing it's impossible to do.

oh wait they actually did it, but still, starting something without such a trivial thing means a lot.

SPArcheon

@Boots Manga/Anime is too broad of a term to really make any meaningful consideration. Indeed it is pretty true that a lot of anime tends to be on the fanservice oriented side. Yet, it really lingers on the difference of "has plot" VS "fanservice is the only reason it exists".

@Boots BTW... what is really "funny" is that anime gets all the blame, but Western media can be pretty bad too.

Have you actually tried playing Cyberpunk 2077?

Boots

12:47 PM

@SPArcheon Well, I'm only labelling this as "manga" out of ignorance, but the sexualised schoolgirl thing seems to be fairly widespread and culturally accepted in Japan from what I've seen and heard.

SPArcheon

Advertised almost like it should be a mix of Bladerunner and Battle Angel Alita ... yet the actual product is horrible.

Boots

@SPArcheon I've not played it myself, but seen footage. I'm more of a RDRII/Ghost of Tsushima kind of gamer.

SPArcheon

they call it "Night City" but it should be called "Night CLUB city" since every where you go you can't shake off the felling that the city is a giant night club (or worse)

Shadow Wizard Chasing Stars

@Boots at least they only doing it with comics/cartoons, in the USA school girls are showing themselves via TikTok for real, each trying to have as minimal clothing as possible. Can't see this happening in Japan, for example.

SPArcheon

@Boots nor did I but...

Boots

12:52 PM

I don't think I'll ever muster up the enthusiasm to play Cyberpunk to be honest.

SPArcheon

An article criticizing Cyberpunk sexism. Warning, it has actual screenshot from the game so it is bad

Considering it is from the same genius that made the Witcher series I am not surprised at all.

Boots

@SPArcheon Clearly the writer hasn't played GTAV.

SPArcheon

@Boots Trust me. It is worse.

Journeyman Geek

@SPArcheon The source material as I recall is just as bad

@SPArcheon Finished it.

Boots

@SPArcheon I know, I know. I bought Stray instead.

SPArcheon

12:56 PM

@Boots You can go around the average GTA city without seeing an ads about adult content. In cyberpunk you can't.

Journeyman Geek

@SPArcheon so the ads are terrible.

also that line about "you look like a piece of <redacted> meat" has a bit of context

Shadow Wizard Chasing Stars

@JourneymanGeek tasty meat?

Journeyman Geek

@ShadowWizardChasingStars uh no

But the big guy is Adam Smasher (yes, that is a terrible pun) , who's basically a barely functional psycopath who is more machine than man.

SPArcheon

@JourneymanGeek Look. It is not like Bladerunner doesn't have a scene that takes place in a private club, yet I don't remember Bladerunner constantly showing half-bare females on street posters in your face.

Journeyman Geek

@SPArcheon you couldn't really see much in bladerunner, it was pretty moody

SPArcheon

12:59 PM

And that is not saying the actual npc females that walk the street are dressed any better.

Shadow Wizard Chasing Stars

@JourneymanGeek well he's a full-borg

@SPArcheon because Bladerunner creators wanted to make art, that's their focus.

Journeyman Geek

@SPArcheon I don't actually recall anything too bad with the NPCs, but I was too busy shooting things

Boots

@JourneymanGeek And clipping through scenery...

Journeyman Geek

@Boots wierdly? Didn't have too many technical issues other than needing to turn down the graphics settings a bunch despite having a system that met or exceeded the recommended specifications

Boots

I think it improved a lot after some pretty hefty updated. I seem to recall that Sony withdrew it from the PS Store because it was so awful at launch.

Journeyman Geek

1:02 PM

I really need to play stray, its glorious

(and probably is a 'better' game in quite a few ways)

SPArcheon

@JourneymanGeek Well, at least you have Inspector Gadget here confirming that it is a good game too.

Journeyman Geek

@SPArcheon Oh If you don't mind spoilers...

SPArcheon

Had you to only trust me...

Boots

@JourneymanGeek Stray is pretty "on rails" with bits of open world, but it's a lovely game.

SPArcheon

You could end up playing El Shaddai: Ascension of Metatron.

Journeyman Geek

1:04 PM

@Boots the first 'combat' section probably nearly gave me a heart attack in a good way

@Boots from the too little I played, its got so much athmosphere and absolutely lovely level design

Shadow Wizard Chasing Stars

@Boots yeah.

Boots

@JourneymanGeek True. Very atmospheric. The puzzles aren't too difficult, it's just a very nice game to play. It's nice how the game at times just lets you slow down, relax, and just do cat things.

SPArcheon

@Boots oh, so you want atmosphere and not-too-difficult puzzles?

Go, play Yomawari...

(maybe that could miss the "relaxing" part...)

Boots

@SPArcheon I'm PS5 only I'm afraid. I don't have a PC meaty enough for gaming.

Or the time. My wife seems to want me to act like an adult for most of the time.

Shadow Wizard Chasing Stars

> To break a curse placed on her, a young girl must venture into the haunted streets of her town at night in search of her lost memories while evading the twisted spirits that lurk in the shadows

SPArcheon

1:15 PM

@Boots "Luckily" for you it is also on consoles...

Shadow Wizard Chasing Stars

Sounds just like Stray, just replace the cat with a young girl. ;d

@SPArcheon only PS4

Boots

@ShadowWizardChasingStars Same thing. There's still very few specific PS5 titles.

SPArcheon

@ShadowWizardChasingStars PS5 can run PS4 games

Shadow Wizard Chasing Stars

@Boots Can PS5 run any PS4 game?

Boots

@ShadowWizardChasingStars Yes.

Shadow Wizard Chasing Stars

1:16 PM

Because Google doesn't mention PS5 as supported platform.

(no Wikipedia page yet, for some odd reason)

Boots

So, looks a bit like Resident Evil territory.

Shadow Wizard Chasing Stars

yup

Boots

Another franchise I didn't get around to. I missed a lot during my 700+ hours of RDRII.

SPArcheon

@Boots nope. Resident Evil is more western style horror. Yomawari is clearly closer to things like "The Ring".

And the interesting part is that it is based on Japanese folklore so it is more Yokai than Zombies.

it.. it is nothing like Resident Evil.

you don't shoot monster, you go around a city at night and avoid the things lurking in the shadow.

older trailed for the second game

Yomawari: Midnight Shadows – Gameplay Trailer | PS4, PS Vita

►

I picked this one because it should make clear what I mean.

It is not the usual "shoot down the monsters" thing.

this is more close to the concepts of liminal spaces.

Boots

Sweet. Will look at the video when I'm not surround by colleagues.

SPArcheon

1:30 PM

It is more eerie and unsettling that plain horror.

btw... where did you folk thought this came from some years ago? :P

Boots

knitbash?

SPArcheon

yes. but also...

Shadow Wizard Chasing Stars

1:48 PM

@Boots almost as much time as I spend on FF14

Two years, ~20 hours weekly, so around 1000 hours.

And I didn't finish even half of it. :D

Boots

@ShadowWizardChasingStars And when you beat it and play it again, it's subtly different, right?

Shadow Wizard Chasing Stars

@Boots I don't re-play games. I tried once, and just couldn't make myself play it again to the end, I can't really explain it. lol

Well, one exception: I might re-play old games, e.g. Krynn series.

The beauty of FF14 though is that it's an ever evolving game, they keep publishing patches and whole new game worlds.

So it's kind of never ending game, guess that's why I like it so much.

I did finish the "original" game a while ago, now through the second major update, out of four.

SPArcheon

@Boots oh, if you want a game that messes with you on the "replay it"... just go play Undertale.

Boots

@SPArcheon Not heard of that one.

SPArcheon

2:03 PM

... ooh nice, ~~an unknowing victim that can play that game blindly~~ someone that can be shown the way to a great game.

@Boots tell me, my loyal subject, do you by any chance consider yourself a completion that likes to see everything a game can offer?

Journeyman Geek

hm

That's interesting

meta.stackexchange.com/questions/383026/… - latest edit says....

Boots

@SPArcheon Only for the games I like. Even after 2 and a half playthroughs I've not seen everything that RDRII has to offer in terms of interactive content. I keep seeing things on YouTube pop up all the time of things I've missed.

Journeyman Geek

> However, the major driver behind this decision was a vulnerability being exploited that allowed DDOS attacks on the network. Its removal was necessary to ensure stability to protect the network against further attacks of that nature.

Boots

@JourneymanGeek If only people had known....!

Journeyman Geek

@Boots someone did!

And the app had an uh...

sad and interesting history

Shadow Wizard Chasing Stars

2:10 PM

@Boots I did and even started playing but I'm ashamed to admit I didn't finish it. :/

Wanted to, but... didn't.

@JourneymanGeek well that's no surprise. But the current format of the post might need some further editing.

Having "edited", "updated" in the title isn't good idea, for one.

Journeyman Geek

ehh, yeah but not a hill I particularly want to die on

SPArcheon

@ShadowWizardChasingStars I want to say that I am surprised but... I'm not.

Shadow Wizard Chasing Stars

@JourneymanGeek same, hence didn't edit it. Yet? ;)

@SPArcheon you know me well. ;)

Journeyman Geek

Its an interesting bit of information though

Shadow Wizard Chasing Stars

@JourneymanGeek true, but I don't like the fact they kept us in the dark for so long.

Journeyman Geek

2:16 PM

@ShadowWizardChasingStars if it was a security thing its good practice, especially if they were dealing with an issue at the time

Shadow Wizard Chasing Stars

They could say "There is vulnerability in the app that might let attacker DDoS us", without exact details.

Journeyman Geek

@ShadowWizardChasingStars cue the attacker immediately looking for the next attack vector

assuming the attacker read meta?

Shadow Wizard Chasing Stars

@JourneymanGeek also, in such case, why drag it for months? Why not just shut it down right away? Doesn't make any sense.

Journeyman Geek

@ShadowWizardChasingStars no one really knew how the app worked and there's a risk of breaking other things

Shadow Wizard Chasing Stars

@JourneymanGeek most likely, it's good source to gain sensitive info about SE. ;)

@JourneymanGeek hmm

Journeyman Geek

2:20 PM

@ShadowWizardChasingStars I mean, its not 'perfect' and some of it's dumb, but there's a lot that makes sense

Shadow Wizard Chasing Stars

OK, but who is Tony?

TonyThanksALotForYourHelp

1 1

:D

Meta Andrew T.

it's the Pony

Journeyman Geek

YOU MUST HAVE HELPED HIM

YOU! IN PARTICULAR

LOOK WHAT YOU HAVE DONE!

Shadow Wizard Chasing Stars

whoops

Meta Andrew T.

anyway, still curious how the DDoS had been done while there's still the underlying SE API that the app used, but perhaps speculating about this won't be productive,,,

Shadow Wizard Chasing Stars

2:22 PM

sending @Spe to fix @Journeyman's caps lock

Journeyman Geek

@ShadowWizardChasingStars actually, the caps lock on my keyboard is remapped to shift

Shadow Wizard Chasing Stars

lol

Journeyman Geek

I need to fn caps-lock to actually toggle it

SPArcheon

Does my avatar look like a "Tony" to you?

Journeyman Geek

Yes

Shadow Wizard Chasing Stars

2:25 PM

@SPArcheon too yellow

tripleee

flag-pls spam bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/116613/…

flag-pls spam failed spam attempt superuser.com/questions/1761236/…

oh (-:

Shadow Wizard Chasing Stars

2:59 PM

@tripleee not anymore

@tripleee kaboom

Spevacus

@ShadowWizardChasingStars working as intended

SPArcheon

Yes! The "silliest hat hunter" award is mine it seems...

in Winter / Summer Bash 2022 on The Stack Exchange Network Chat, 21 mins ago, by Slate

@SPArcheon Yes - congratulations, you are the first :)

Journeyman Geek

3:14 PM

@SPArcheon We could have stopped at silliest.

SPArcheon

Shadow Wizard Chasing Stars

@Spevacus good! Here is your reward good sir.

!!/tea Spe with extra lemon

SmokeDetector

@ShadowWizardChasingStars brews a cup of lemon tea for @Spe

@ShadowWizardChasingStars brews a cup of Earl Grey tea for @Spe

Shadow Wizard Chasing Stars

hmm

Kevin B

hmm

Journeyman Geek

3:26 PM

@ShadowWizardChasingStars spe with extra lemon?

SmokeDetector

@ShadowWizardChasingStars brews a Spe with extra lemon for @Sha

Shadow Wizard Chasing Stars

SPArcheon

5:17 PM

@ShadowWizardChasingStars Shadow the Lemon Wizard?

SPArcheon

5:33 PM

Attention Tavern, let's start a pool. Who thinks that after the joke above @ShadowWizardChasingStars should change their avatar to this one?

Behold the Lemon Wizard in all his sour glory.

Shadow Wizard Chasing Stars

@SPArcheon nope, I prefer green tea

SPArcheon

@ShadowWizardChasingStars you dare saying that after I even made your new avatar?

Shadow Wizard Chasing Stars

@SPArcheon AI still got a long way to go, it looks like the different parts are sawn together.

@SPArcheon if you'll make me hand drawn avatar, I'll reconsider! Unless you're AI yourself?

SPArcheon

@ShadowWizardChasingStars that actually is the exact look I wanted. What are you? A cute pony? Nope.

Shadow Wizard Chasing Stars

SPA-GPT?

@SPArcheon it's not the look, there's... mismatch.

Putting pixels together to form something might resemble it, but it won't be the real thing.

Now that's something that only human eye can notice, AI will never see its own faults.

SPArcheon

5:46 PM

@ShadowWizardChasingStars challenge accepted....

good enough for ya?

Shadow Wizard Chasing Stars

Where's the lemon?

@SPArcheon better, except for the teeth it almost looks authentic.

SPArcheon

6:04 PM

coherent enough for you?

Or do you want to comment on the sleeves? because the white part is supposed to look exactly that way.

Shadow Wizard Chasing Stars

6:18 PM

@SPArcheon mouth and nose almost invisible, same color as the face.

:P

If you try to make me compliment AI, you won't have any luck. :D

Eleeza the Other World Wizard

7:13 PM

Ah, this is the AI art thing isn't it

Kevin B

"art"

Eleeza the Other World Wizard

being a (human) artist and a compsci student, the situation is a little awkward to me

Sonic the Anonymous Hedgehog

8:06 PM

@JourneymanGeek Something tells me the vulnerability in question was the fact that the iOS app's API key formerly allowed unlimited (technically 2^31 - 1) read and write queries per day. That key was switched to read-only as part of the process. It's telling that the Android app's key, which is limited to the standard 10,000 queries per day, wasn't switched to read-only.

Dec 31, 2022 at 9:10, by Glorfindel

@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog the iOS app has unlimited use (but read-only); the Android app can still write but is limited to 10,000 queries per day. And special app-only APIs like this one for uploading images don't work anymore.

starball

8:36 PM

@ShadowWizardChasingStars not yet!

@SPArcheon this has me giggling

Spevacus

@ShadowWizardChasingStars LOL

Feeds

9:08 PM

The Winter/Summer Bash 2022 Hat Cafe is now closed!

Eric Campbell on January 05, 2023

We had fun celebrating Winter Bash 2022 with you all! While we’ve closed our cafe, let’s look at a few highlights and hat-wearing avatars that brought us joy this holiday season.

Kevin B

🚽