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Journeyman Geek

4:28 AM

→ 15 messages moved to Chimney

Rob

4:45 AM

New:

Sonic the Anonymous Hedgehog

7:25 AM

Adam Lear passes the helm of tech lead to Yaakov Ellis (while still remaining a dev)

@rene Kenny kind of broke, see the Den

Luuklag

7:47 AM

@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog I think a congrats to @YaakovEllis is in order then :)

rene

8:03 AM

@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog nah, the external service provider is 504

Shadow Wizard Is Vaccinated V3

9:00 AM

@rene yeah it happened before, and they got back after a while, there's still hope for cats. ;)

Journeyman Geek

10:09 AM

→ 5 messages moved to Chimney

Shadow Wizard Is Vaccinated V3

10:22 AM

@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog maybe taking Brian's place?

Journeyman Geek

11:20 AM

@ShadowWizardIsVaccinatedV3 Adam's on sabattical

and I don't think he's taken one a while so it'll accumilate

Shadow Wizard Is Vaccinated V3

12:01 PM

@JourneymanGeek isn't it just a bombastic name for two weeks vacation?

The usage of this word in IT is basically wrong.

Real Sabbatical is whole year of not working.

Mad Scientist

@ShadowWizardIsVaccinatedV3 that's not an IT thing I think, but a US thing. I would have expected a sabbatical to be a year at least

Shadow Wizard Is Vaccinated V3

@MadScientist origin is Israel.

Sabbatical

A sabbatical (from Hebrew: shabbat (שבת) (i.e., Sabbath), in Latin: sabbaticus, in Greek: sabbatikos (σαββατικός)) is a rest or break from work. == History == The concept of the sabbatical is based on the Biblical practice of shmita, which is related to agriculture. According to Leviticus 25, Jews in the Land of Israel must take a year-long break from working the fields every seven years. A "sabbatical" has come to mean a lengthy, intentional break from a career. Some universities and other institutional employers of scientists, physicians, and academics offer the opportunity to qualify for paid...

But meh, that's really not important, just weird they're using such word for few weeks of vacation, which everyone take anyway during holidays.

Mad Scientist

how much regular vacation days does SE give out?

Shadow Wizard Is Vaccinated V3

@MadScientist if it's not public (in the job listing) then I'd guess it's different for each person, maybe even open for negotiation when applying to the job. But can't really know...

Tinkeringbell

@MadScientist CMs only get 20

I kinda would expect it to be the same for other jobs in the company.

Mad Scientist

12:08 PM

It seems to be 20 days, which is good for US from what I know, but only 2/3 of what you get here in Germany for example

Shadow Wizard Is Vaccinated V3

heh, in Israel it's usually 12 days. Some companies give bonus, but mostly, that's the amount people get.

(which happens to be the minimum set by law)

Mad Scientist

I think the minimum by law is something like 24-26, typically you get 30 days

Shadow Wizard Is Vaccinated V3

@MadScientist good for you! ;)

user728672

@ShadowWizardIsVaccinatedV3 We shall see? It still shows in a room list. But I found this: chat.meta.stackexchange.com/rooms/info/1543/… / I de registered. So we shall see? No one was ever there, so I don't care to get pinged for a non-event... Congrats on getting the vax.

Ryan M

@MadScientist Can confirm that getting 20 vacation days from day one is pretty good for the US

bad_coder

12:20 PM

I think dark-mode tag wiki needs a slight rewriting, please consider my comment here. I made an edit suggestion to that end.

@MadScientist it's great to finally meet you in chat. I'm a huge fan of your posts.

user728672

Sabbatical - it has become a bit misused, to mean take an intentional break from something, for no other reason then maybe a 'change of scenery'

user728672

Happy September everyone!

bad_coder

@Tinkeringbell Thing is, a company also has to give holidays in accordance with local laws. E.g. an SE employee working remotely from Spanish should get an extra 11 days

+1 day for the city holiday.

@ShadowWizardIsVaccinatedV3 that's horrible, I'm guessing Japan will be on that level. Considering many countries stopped considering Saturday as being a weekend day. Leaves the worker with almost no time to rest.

caird coinheringaahing

I've never understood overworking culture tbh. Literally every part of it is negative

Tinkeringbell

@bad_coder That's cool if you're actually getting your extra days through law. The Netherlands sucks just as bad as America, you only get 20 days by law, and anything on top of that is negotiated through unions and put into a 'collective labor agreement'. I'm lucky enough that mine has negotiated an extra 5 and the company gives an extra 3 when you're with them for more than 3 years...

But otherwise, yeah, it's bad.

bad_coder

12:28 PM

@cairdcoinheringaahing hey, I get all that vacation and holidays but I still frequently work 16 hours in a day.

caird coinheringaahing

@bad_coder Unless you do that work for fun, and you actually really enjoy it, I don't understand that

bad_coder

@cairdcoinheringaahing I own my own buisness. September-October is 16 hours daily 30 days straight. I usually take a vacation afterwards.

caird coinheringaahing

Workers are more efficient if they have the opportunity to actually relax and enjoy their personal lives, so they make their employers more money, while costing them less in wages. And, by not exploiting your workers, you're more likely to create an enjoyable work environment

@bad_coder If you don't mind me asking, what's your buisness?

Journeyman Geek

@ShadowWizardIsVaccinatedV3 I think it accumulates with tenure

bad_coder

@JourneymanGeek depending on law the extra maxes out at +2-3 days year.

Journeyman Geek

12:35 PM

@bad_coder I mean from what I remember people in the company mentioning

bad_coder

@Tinkeringbell 👍 glad to know you're on a better spectrum of the labor market in terms of vacation days. 20 flat is just barely enough.

@JourneymanGeek I love meeting people from other countries (even if it's online). After meeting you I realized Singapore is a tax heaven, and I noticed increasing references of companies and people moving there for that end. A very curious country.

Journeyman Geek

@bad_coder well it's a good country for rich people. Alright for the middle class I guess... Not a good place to be poor

bad_coder

@JourneymanGeek one of the first things I saw researching Singapore was the mass of foreign domestic workers gathering at shopping malls on Sunday. An interesting phenomenon.

Journeyman Geek

@bad_coder they have few other places to go

And they have their own 'local' meeting spots depending on their origin

Shadow Wizard Is Vaccinated V3

@bad_coder yeah especially parents, who have to stay with kids during holidays.

bad_coder

12:46 PM

@JourneymanGeek that sound more like what I've seen.

@ShadowWizardIsVaccinatedV3 raising a kid without grandparents to help out must be a nightmare there.

Shadow Wizard Is Vaccinated V3

@JourneymanGeek possibly, indeed.

@bad_coder indeed, and both my wife parents passed away last year, so that's essentially the case for us. My mother still alive, but she's not driving so can't help with the kids. Luckily wife keep finding good babysitters who keep watch over the kids when needed, letting us both work. :)

bad_coder

@ShadowWizardIsVaccinatedV3 I'm sorry to hear about your in-laws. But I'm glad to know you still have your mom that's gotta great :) In my country baby sisters just don't exist, it's not a cultural thing.

o/ I'm off folks have a nice Sunday.

Shadow Wizard Is Vaccinated V3

1:05 PM

@bad_coder thanks. And interesting about lack of babysitters. It's very common here for students (high school, university) to work as babysitters whenever they can. Heck we even got an excellent babysitter who is a professional volleyball player. :D

Rob

3:30 PM

@ShadowWizardIsVaccinatedV3 Babysitters very popular in North America, and low cost childcare, camp, KG; really any way to offload the little delight. But most of all babysitters, end of story.

Rob

4:08 PM

@ShadowWizardIsVaccinatedV3 In the US it's often an euphemism for a stress break. IE: There's no other way you are going to get a year off and get your job back; unless you are irreplaceable.

Yaakov Ellis

5:09 PM

@ShadowWizardIsVaccinatedV3 at Stack, the sabbatical is between 4-8 weeks that must be used consecutively. Accrue one week per year after your first year.

@MadScientist I think it is 20 minimum, and if you live in a country where you are required to get more, you get more.

Journeyman Geek

5:28 PM

@YaakovEllis uhh hairbrush?

Yaakov Ellis

5:40 PM

Fixed

Journeyman Geek

ah ok

caird coinheringaahing

I'm very confused how "used" -> "hairbrush" :P

Journeyman Geek

The letters are right next to each other

(Or it snuck in from another conversation...)

or autocucumber

(I actually was thinking it was a regionalism of some sort that needed explaining. Anything else is less interesting :( )

Shadow Wizard Is Vaccinated V3

@Rob that's good. Needs lots of trust though. Not easy to give.

@YaakovEllis oh, 8 weeks is already a long time, for some reason thought it's only 2 weeks, up to four. Anyway wonder how this term came to be used in Stack? Or is it commonly used in USA?

@cairdcoinheringaahing using "hairbrush" a LOT, so autocorrect is very eager to use it? ;)

Journeyman Geek

@ShadowWizardIsVaccinatedV3 SE sabbaticals are vaguely special

Shadow Wizard Is Vaccinated V3

5:53 PM

@JourneymanGeek in a good way?

Journeyman Geek

Like I've not really heard of em elsewhere - except maybe acedemia

@ShadowWizardIsVaccinatedV3 well generally - I'd say yes

caird coinheringaahing

I've heard of sabbaticals (I know the creator of Calvin and Hobbes took one), but I don't know of anyone IRL whose actually taken one

Shadow Wizard Is Vaccinated V3

@JourneymanGeek heh, well, I heard this term used since first year in daycare, but only in education system. ;)

@cairdcoinheringaahing your teachers?

Journeyman Geek

@ShadowWizardIsVaccinatedV3 professors and such would take time like that for research

caird coinheringaahing

@ShadowWizardIsVaccinatedV3 Not as far as I know

Journeyman Geek

5:56 PM

so the idea is you could take a break from your main tenured job and teaching, and follow whatever interests you

caird coinheringaahing

High school teachers generally don't take them as much as uni professors, from what I understand of them

Shadow Wizard Is Vaccinated V3

@cairdcoinheringaahing too bad, for them. ;)

@JourneymanGeek yeah well here teachers take it just for taking a rest.

Not sure it's set by law, but most teachers in Israel actually take one full year off every seven years.

(and getting paid for it, as far as I know.)

They do have very low salary though, so nothing to envy them for.

caird coinheringaahing

I don't think I've had any of my teachers for a continuous 7 year break, and I don't generally know what they're up to if I didn't have them teaching me, so I have no idea if that's a thing here :P

I think the longest was from Year 8 to Year 13, so 6 years

Rob

In NA it's usually a new teacher every year in elementary school, a few per day / several per week in secondary, often every few months in post secondary - no one person is an expert on everything.

caird coinheringaahing

Oh yeah, I had different teachers for each subject :P

The 6 year long one was my German teacher, and I only had her for German, nothing else :P

Yaakov Ellis

7:12 PM

I took a 5 week sabbatical a few months ago. Don't really know if it is the appropriate name, but take, I don't care what is called. I'll take it.

About to hit 8 years with the company

4

Yaakov Ellis

7:25 PM

@cairdcoinheringaahing so am I. My autocorrect never fears to surprise me (that was supposed to be "ceases", but was changed to "fears" and I'm just going to stick with it)

Journeyman Geek

:D

caird coinheringaahing

7:41 PM

@YaakovEllis Are you sure that your autocorrect isn't just especially bold, and isn't afraid of you? :P

Rob

9:46 PM

^ Sometimes it's useful, even when it's the wrong word, it comes up with an improvement.

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