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12:00 AM
@JourneymanGeek Any particular buzzwords I should put in to ensure it doesn't go to /dev/null?
The issue seems to be that, unlike my site profile which truly merged, the chat profile was merely replaced.
Sent. Anyway, I hope a dev will be able to fix this.
@forestdistrustsStackExchange See, the problem is that including the word "chat" routes it there.
@RyanM That's what I assume.
But @JourneymanGeek did suggest that I sent it to contact.
If I fail to get a reply, I'll open an MSE issue.
Hopefully I won't have to escalate it through the urgent channel (Twitter). :P
12:15 AM
@forestdistrustsStackExchange Actually - I would recommend putting as much detail as possible in
and naw, they don't ignore stuff unless its a complaint with too much ranty
I did add a bit more detail.
I specified that I believe that it is caused by main account merging but chat account being replaced.
Use TikTok and Interpretive Dance
sourceware.org/git/?p=glibc.git;a=tree my god where the hell is the dynamic linker source? :/
12:31 AM
Can't help you there :D
1:08 AM
Found it. God, every time I read glibc source code I want to rip my eyes out.
if (hurr (durr) == NULL)
    do_something_stupid ();
Terrible coding style.
1:32 AM
^ Ham
I've heard "ham" as the opposite of "spam," but ...that certainly doesn't apply here.
Click on the [MS], see the beefcake
also there's one more of those on the question that needs one more red flag, if anyone wants a free helpful flag :-p
Deleted, despite what MetaSmoke says; they'd have looked smarter if the didn't translate the image URL, but they learned quick and applied their knowledge successfully to their second post.
1:41 AM
there's still one more on the question that wasn't reported here, only in Charcoal HQ
Flagged it. It's gone now.
whoo. Guess there were a couple non-flag downvotes too, it ended at -8.
1:56 AM
It would be great if the MetaSmoke report held the Timeline, and we could see what happened instead of being 404'd. --- Maybe a mod spotted it when it had fewer than 6 flags and agreed with the few currently cast.
@Rob If only it were possible for people with the view deleted posts privilege to use it network-wide...it'd be extremely useful for fighting abuse
I'm pretty sure most of the Charcoal regulars (most of whom have it somewhere) have lamented the lack of this ability
We pretty much have one person on each site with the priv, I guess they could sign up for additional chat pings and be the one to write the follow-up; lot of extra work though.
That's potentially true, at least for sites that cover almost all the volume of posts. We could make a directory of people with the privilege who volunteer to go read deleted posts.
Why would it be necessary to read deleted posts?
2:05 AM
The Timeline for that last one is: english.stackexchange.com/posts/566996/timeline - let's see if we can view it after the post is deleted (I don't have a lot of rep there, so I can test).
@forestdistrustsStackExchange so we can pick up on patterns
@forestdistrustsStackExchange Helps with the context to figure out if stuff was abuse. Seeing what action moderators took, if posts actually answered the question (if the question's deleted), patterns, etc.
Also I often link deleted posts in moderator flags as examples of a user's previous spammy/abusive behavior.
Often something that looks innocent on its own is clearly abusive the fifth time they do it.
Unfortunately, that abusive behavior is often spread across multiple sites...fortunately, metasmoke usually has a record of it.
2:14 AM
Is it usually spam, trolls, or angry banned users?
Usually spam. Trolls are usually more obvious, with a couple notable exceptions.
I have a deleted +8 answer on politics because I didn't recognize the troll until after I posted it... :-(
Considering asking for it to be undeleted, because it was a good answer :-p
If the question was useful enough for a good answer, why delete it?
Just ban the user if they broke the rules and edit the question to be in compliance.
Deleted by a CM to enforce the user's existing network ban
(mods on some sites have selectively undeleted a few of their questions that got good answers)
@forestdistrustsStackExchange uhh all of em.
All about equally?
2:22 AM
Oh wait, I forgot that I actually did ask them to undelete it. Declined because "No, we will not allow anything from that person on our site. If you think it's a worthwhile question, please ask it yourself."
That sounds kind of scummy.
@forestdistrustsStackExchange not really. Muuuuch more spammers
Can't they just anonymize the user?
Then it's no longer them.
@forestdistrustsStackExchange if they keep asking questions on new accounts clearly they don't care about attribution
Well, they're already using accounts under pseudonyms...yeah, that.
2:24 AM
What I mean is, why refuse to undelete if they can anonymize it?
Unlink his account from the question rather than claim the question is forever tainted.
So tainted that not even unlinking the account is enough.
It was for all intents and purposes anonymous when it was deleted in the first place, because the user keeps creating new accounts under different names.
Basically as long as the question is still there, or answered, they derivative value from their actions
Not if the user is gone.
It's true that they can't keep twisting the premise and posting inane comments based on ridiculous premises once the account's gone
which is this particular troll's MO
If you re-posted the question, it'd probably give them more satisfaction.
2:28 AM
They can post a new one. Or refer to it and continue
Than if their account was simply deleted and unlinked from the Q.
@forestdistrustsStackExchange there's folks who create dozens, or even hundreds of accounts hoping one slips through...
Dissociation isn't the right thing there
Somewhat relatedly, I'm always vaguely impressed with the effort spammers go to to create accounts weeks in advance. And then they post super obvious spam and it gets deleted immediately.
@RyanM it's probably automated
Though the most satisfying thing with spam fighting is when a spammer posts a new post and it leads to you finding the rest of their work on the network that had previously gone undiscovered...and deleting all of it :D
2:33 AM
My headcanon is there's folks who SE toolkits and booster packs of credentials 🤣
Tim posted a funny answer to that:
A: Selling Stack Overflow accounts

Tim Post /$$ /$$ /$$ | $$$ | $$ | $$ | $$$$| $$ /$$$$$$ | $$ | $$ $$ $$ /$$__ $$| $$ | $$ $$$$| $$ \ $$|__/ | $$\ $$$| $$ | $$ | $$ \ $$| $$$$$$/ /$$ |__/ \__/ \______/ |__/

It oneboxes poorly.
2:54 AM
@Rob No, when the post is deleted it takes the Timeline with it; before it went it showed that it entered the First Posts queue, and from the terse info it received an unfavorable review (otherwise it would have said: "Looks OK").
3:13 AM
@Rob one would assume spammers don't care 😅
3 hours later…
5:53 AM
4 messages moved to Chimney
106 messages moved to Chimney
6:18 AM
@JourneymanGeek just wait 'til the spammers find out about the promotion policy.
3 hours later…
9:47 AM
@forestdistrustsStackExchange Desist, not worth the windmill hunt. Some thing go by Virgil here
> "Vex thee not, forest;
It is so willed there where is power to do
That which is willed; and farther question not."
10:10 AM
@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog gone
3 hours later…
12:49 PM
How are things in your neighbourhood @ShadowTheVaccinatedWizard
Live Updates: timesofisrael.com
Thx Rob, our news outlets also cover some of it. But I was more hoping to hear that Shadow himself was doing not too bad.
@Rob heh, the tank in the front page isn't really a tank, that's where I spent three years while in army.
@ShadowTheVaccinatedWizard its a howwitzer isn't it
@Luuklag yes!! How you know?
12:57 PM
@ShadowTheVaccinatedWizard longer barrel, pointed upwards ;)
@Luuklag depends what you mean "neighbourhood"... if actual neighbourhood then fine, we're well protected by having super important factory nearby but if you mean country, then not so good...
Yeah the latter was on the news extensively
Oh, I said it yesterday
yesterday, by Shadow The Vaccinated Wizard
Luckily (?) for me I live near important military factory (not base) which has max protection.
@Luuklag the real risk is not the rockets, it's civil war.
@Luuklag also, you would rarely have tanks firing stationarily
unless its hull down, you stay still, you're toast
1:01 PM
@Luuklag bigger size than a tank, slower, and no armor whatsoever, yeah
@ShadowTheVaccinatedWizard I suspect that's also the goal of the whole exercise :(
@JourneymanGeek yup
People get toasted from this as well, comrade lost both eyebrows one time.
They never grew back lol.
(he stood below the barrel when it shot)
@ShadowTheVaccinatedWizard those things are dangerous
we had someone killed in a SPA accident when he got hit by a shell casing
@JourneymanGeek actually no, Hamas is many things, but the riots within aren't their doing as far as I can see. It's just the trigger that set fire to barrel of explosives that fuels itself for long years.
The Singapore Self-Propelled Howitzer 1 (SSPH 1) Primus is a self-propelled howitzer armed with a 155 mm howitzer. Developed jointly by the Singapore Armed Forces (SAF), Defence Science and Technology Agency (DSTA) and Singapore Technologies Kinetics (ST Kinetics), it was introduced to the Singapore Artillery in 2004. Primus is derived from the Artillery motto In Oriente Primus (Latin: "First in the East"). == Production history and development == The idea for a self-propelled howitzer within the SAF was developed in the early 1990s, with the aim of providing better fire support to the ar...
@ShadowTheVaccinatedWizard I don't really think they're unaware there's going to be riots (or that they already started)
1:04 PM
@JourneymanGeek sure, for them it's just a bonus, but they couldn't know in advance it would really happen.
One political analist here wrote something along the lines: The current struggles are good for both Hamas and Nethanyahu, but for no-one else. As long as both sides don't get representation that actually cares about their people instead of caring about themselves nothing will get better.
@Luuklag that's a smart person...
More or less
@JourneymanGeek They should have named it optimus primus ;)
At this point I can't help but believe Nethanyahu get help from the universe/fate/whatever - if not for this situation, he wouldn't be PM anymore very soon.
1:07 PM
@Luuklag for some reason our 'local' artillery has names starting with P and armour have names stating with B
@ShadowTheVaccinatedWizard and probably be in jail
The opposition parties were on the verge of joining together and declaring new government.
Sadly, one of those parties is Arab party, and obviously there's no way they'll sit in government now.
(Primus, Pegasus , bionix and bronco... the terrex is the only outlier and we designed it to sell to the americans)
I don't know if we even have any military stuff home-made
@JourneymanGeek here artillery get names related to horses, in Hebrew. "Rohev" which means "rider," is the older version, and "Doher" which means "galloping" is the newer version.
1:11 PM
.... there's another one I've never heard of en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunter_AFV
@Luuklag uhhh
We might have bought your old Leopard 2s
The M109 is an American 155 mm turreted self-propelled howitzer, first introduced in the early 1960s to replace the M44. It has been upgraded a number of times, most recently to the M109A7. The M109 family is the most common Western indirect-fire support weapon of maneuver brigades of armored and mechanized infantry divisions. The M109 has a crew of four: the section chief/commander, the driver, the gunner, and the ammunition handler/loader. The chief or gunner aims the cannon left or right (deflection) and up and down (quadrant). The British Army replaced its M109s with the AS-90. Several European...
That's the exact type I served with/in.
@JourneymanGeek nice! Our own version is still under development.
Maybe they need new VP to bump it forward. :P
@ShadowTheVaccinatedWizard en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrex_ICV is closer to that :D
the chinese 'borrowed' one and probably had a look
> On 23 November 2016, nine Terrex vehicles from the Singapore Armed Forces, which were used for a military exercise in Taiwan, were seized while in port at Hong Kong, resulting in heightened political tensions between Singapore and China.[26] They were initially impounded at an outdoor storage yard of a Hong Kong Customs and Excise Department storage facility in Tuen Mun, but by December 6, they had been moved indoors.
@JourneymanGeek could be, but then again, they weren't home-made I think
@Luuklag True
But why do you need tanks, y'all mostly make war with the sea these days.
1:18 PM
Who knows, in this crazy world anyone can decide to try and conquer anyone else, e.g. USA might send troops to Europe and claim it as part of USA. At some point in a crazy future.
So better be prepared. ;)
In some online game I'm playing these days, two top guilds which were allies for long years suddenly broke alliance and started to attack each other, it's like USA and Europe in a way.
@JourneymanGeek We lack the people to man them in the first place, so no need for them anyways
@Luuklag ah, we have conscription so...
Granted if we go to war, there's probably something really wrong with the world
@Luuklag In the absence of site-wide flags, I have started adding "spam" to a spammer's user name and #spam to the link in the profile, and saving these changes network-wide. This makes it easy for other sites to literally search for "spam" accounts and then destroy them. — Tsundoku 13 hours ago
Now Jnat can just search the user list on MSE and delete from there ;)
I'm curious if somebody calls it out on [__]ter - be it after spamming, being accused of spam, or just helpfully on behalf of those "unfortunate souls"
1:33 PM
@JourneymanGeek we do have something that is partly home-made: defensie.nl/onderwerpen/materieel/voertuigen/boxer
designed in colab with the germans
And then there is the JSF/F-35 as well ofcourse ;)
@ShadowTheVaccinatedWizard It doesn't seem to be a good choice, with 1/4 the range of the opposition: israeldefense.co.il/en/content/new-self-propelled-gun-idf en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_rocket_arsenal#/media/…
@Rob the artillery will likely hit what its aimed at...
and there's other options
Also, the palestinian territories aren't that big that you have any use in long range missiles ;)
They need to be close so they don't miss also, as they waste resources by not using modern shells:
A precision-guided munition (PGM, smart weapon, smart munition, smart bomb) is a guided munition intended to precisely hit a specific target, to minimize collateral damage and increase lethality against intended targets. During the First Gulf War guided munitions accounted for only 9% of weapons fired, but accounted for 75% of all successful hits. Despite guided weapons generally being used on more difficult targets, they were still 35 times more likely to destroy their targets per weapon dropped.Because the damage effects of explosive weapons decrease with distance due to an inverse cube law,...
The old stuff - no nose fins:
New shells can follow and hit the center of a moving vehicle from 60km away.
@Rob dumb shells are probably a lot cheaper, and the 'math' of hitting fairly accurately with standardised shells is... pretty well known.
1:45 PM
@JourneymanGeek theyre also probably shooting at stationary targets, so better go with cheap shells
@Luuklag nah, jail is still far away for him, either way.
@Rob it doesn't fire missiles, it's meant to destroy enemy units.
The "cheap" shells are more expensive in every way. You need several times as many fired to account for the misses, and you must answer for some of your misses. You have to carry more, and risk accidents. A direct hit does far more damage to what you want than a near miss. --- The most glaring omission is that it's a trivial upgrade, just replace the nose:
The M1156 Precision Guidance Kit, formerly XM1156, is a U.S. Army-designed precision guidance system to turn existing 155 mm artillery shells into smart weapons. The prime contractor was Alliant Techsystems – later merging with Orbital Sciences Corporation to form Orbital ATK, in turn being taken over by Northrop Grumman and renamed Northrop Grumman Innovation Systems – and the industry team includes Interstate Electronics Corporation. By April 2018, more than 25,000 PGKs had been produced. == Overview == In operation the PGK screws into the nose of the projectile much like conventional fuzes....
Are we talking about the Isreal-Palestine war right now?
or just war in general?
@EkadhSingh yes
1:52 PM
Some of the posts are general.
@Rob I remember a bomb dropped in Hawija (Iraq) by the Dutch airforces. That was a direct hit of epical proportions
But it was all sparked by the current Isreal-Palestine war, yeah.
Just one weapon, ATM
then we still had to account for it
The secondary blast whiped out an entire neighbourhood
Uh, Its almost like they were building bombs in a residential neighbourhood...
1:54 PM
@JourneymanGeek yeah they were ;)
But still, you don't intent to kill 70 civilians when you bomb a bomb factory
No - and I guess they were unlucky?
Or lucky, depending
Probably inflated the numbers by pulling people from various locations and saying it was the result of one action.
Ben Popper on May 13, 2021
We’ve talked about the software that flies SpaceX rockets, the team that tests the code to ensure it’s airtight, and the code that helps Starlink satellites communicate with customers and one another. For our last piece, we’re diving into the work of a team that helps the vehicles get built.
How much is Elon paying Ben?
@Rob The catch was that it was zoned an industrial area, but it turned out a lot of people lived in those buisnesses as well. And there were far more IS explosives present than anticipated, so the blast radius got quite a bit larger then anticipated as well.
2:12 PM
Should have dropped a hand grenade sized munition, and blamed them.
2:26 PM
@Luuklag 1000 ElonCoins
@Luuklag if you know there are innocent people living nearby, and there's a chance they'll get hit, you have tough decision to make as the one making the decision.
@KevinB more true than ever here, lol
I wonder how mi yodeya and Islam se are doing after the recent conflicts
@EkadhSingh meh, shouldn't really matter.
Any trace of non professional discussion must be nuked on spot.
(in the main site at least.)
2:45 PM
@Luuklag Whatever it is, I hope for Elon's sake it's not cryptocurrency XD He's taking 'dogecoin to the moon' but this morning 'Tesla no longer accepts bitcoin because climate' XD
@Tinkeringbell of course, Bitcoin is very specifically the worst from a power consumption perspective. Because it was designed that way.
@SPArcheon that is lovely :-)
3:07 PM
@SPArcheon Oh wow. Please tell me you've actually seen that!
@terdon naw, was on twitter
I saw it on one of the slacks
@RoryAlsop Probably true, but still :P
@JourneymanGeek Some things seen on twitter actually do exist.
@terdon true, but unless @SPArcheon was the tweeter... :D
@ShadowTheVaccinatedWizard it should be, but I saw a question that was most likely a blatant push question on politics SE about Israel recently. Here is the link: politics.stackexchange.com/questions/63902/…
3:15 PM
@JourneymanGeek Actually, multiple sources seems to confirm it is true, happened somewhere in England apparently and is related to some protest group.
You can see the adHackManifesto logo on the picture above
so, same group
Something about removing advertisement
@SPArcheon Not doubting its true - but rather that you were the original poster :D
Or had seen that. Or if you did, you'd deny it :D
3:30 PM
sorry, misunderstood the context.
3:41 PM
What parts of a users profile can a CM see?
everything i'd assume
@EkadhSingh What don't you want them to see?
don't mods even have the ability to see their preferences
Just curious
3:46 PM
@KevinB essentially we can see everything you can + a bit more :D
What’s “a bit more”?
@SPArcheon thats real anlogue hacking there. But yeah if you watchednthose guys do it once its simple to copy
@EkadhSingh I think some history is retained.
@EkadhSingh Well - that's mod stuff
User history, some mod tools...
I helped @forest dig up his old ava that way :D
@JourneymanGeek is there any full list of this?
that I can go look at
Don't think so
3:49 PM
No its secretz
and we don't touch a lot of it, a lot of the time
@Luuklag What would the reason be for keeping that secret?
@Luuklag Your government agrees with me, and spent 70m for 3500 M1156s and accessories. Source: dsca.mil/press-media/major-arms-sales/…
@EkadhSingh some of the tools are used for fraud detection
Others are...
I see
does fraud detection mean see-ing past votes and edits and other actions?
3:53 PM
it means things for fraud detection
that can't be revealed
It probably entails personally identifiable information (PII) and being able to match them to other users and seeing whether there's vote overlap. Probably.
@Spevacus interesting.
@JourneymanGeek can the boring stuff be revealed?
@EkadhSingh Why would anyone want to know the boring stuff?
Q: Who can see what in my profile?

SteBWhen editing my user profile (name, date of birth, etc.), how can I tell which information can be seen by other users (publicly visible) and what is only used by the system (and how it's used)?

@JourneymanGeek that’s what school is, right?
So if school is interesting why wouldn’t this be?
4:00 PM
@JourneymanGeek And now I am tempted to add "old user avatars" to Adam's reply as well
@SPArcheon oh that was a roundabout thing.
@EkadhSingh Why would anyone want to go to school ? :D
to get away from home
@JourneymanGeek 1. To get away from home like Kevin said, 2. To learn stuff, 3. Cause why not
@KevinB Run away, join a circus... etc etc
those aren't free
4:02 PM
@KevinB running away isn’t free?
not at all
you still gotta eat
Same with school
you don’t get free lunch (in some places)
@KevinB go to a charity center or an orphanage also works (though those both also suck, probably more than being at home)
@JourneymanGeek main reason is because if you don’t go to school you’re going to struggle to get a job
i mean...
@EkadhSingh that's a need, not a want :D
also not necessarily true
4:05 PM
@JourneymanGeek you need to get a job?
More seriously - as someone who's been a mod a while, quite a lot of 'real' modding is the stuff we do here
@EkadhSingh I like not staving to death, or scrounging computers from dumpsters :D
So getting a job is very much a need.
“I like”
also people hand out free food, you could probably survive
@EkadhSingh A lot of people don't. Survive, that is.
/mw gestures wildly as mastlow's hierarchy of needs
maybe vaguely. Or widely vaguely
@Mithical iirc it’s only around 2-4% chance of dying each year, see this and this. The first link says for unemployed people the mortality rate is about 2.4x employed people, and the average mortality rate is 0.7% per year according to the second link, so that’s 2-4% chance of death each year, and that’s rounding up
@JourneymanGeek what does “here” mean in your message? Chat or meta or something else?
4:14 PM
@EkadhSingh Well I'm a mod on two sites, and its true for both
Being a mod isn't 'just' about extra access. A lot of it is about using your influence over the community for good ;)
@KevinB Or some imagined value of it
@JourneymanGeek can you see who stars messages in chats?
Good to know
4:23 PM
you can see who didn't
Does the speed limit in chat still apply to mods?
speed... limittt?
yes - I've gotten hit by it in the past
naw, didn't quite grok what he meant
Yes we're also rate limited
@JourneymanGeek interesting
We also don't have review rate limiting, but we can get review banned
@JourneymanGeek what is review rate limiting?
4:30 PM
20 IG
@EkadhSingh you can only do so many reviews on a queue per day?
I don't have that limit on sites where I'm a mod
4:42 PM
Is there any chat where you can test chat bugs?
the sandbox
dunno if every chat server has one
@JourneymanGeek I enjoyed school and university - I always love learning. Back then I was learning with zero responsibilities. Good times
I think I found a chat bug (it’s on iPad, might work on a phone, probably will not work on a computer)
And my old employer had its own university - getting on courses there was great. Challenging and fun
Is there any way to report a chat bug if you’re question banned?
4:49 PM
@EkadhSingh no
I guess I’ll wait
Technically, it would potentially be valid on any meta site...
Or you could mention it in here and hope someone posts it for you
@RyanM Ok. Here’s the bug. On an IPad (might work on a phone, probably won’t work on a computer), when you type in a word, after you send a chat message, the word/emoji in the 3 boxes are still there, but when you click on one of the three boxes it just enters a space.
3 boxes?
Suggested words on ipad
That’s what I meant, my bad
4:55 PM
Oh on the keyboard. Afraid I have no Apple devices to test this, so it won't be me reporting it for you 😅
Ok. Thank you
@EkadhSingh sorry, no. I really don't want any Apple devices in my house.
On technical and moral grounds :-)
Works fine for me
ios 14.4.2
You type a word, send a message press, and then press on a suggested word in one of the three boxes and it doesn’t just input a space?
I think it might have to be one of the non-default words that show up after entering a punctuation mark and hitting send
Hold up I can’t reproduce it now either
Maybe try with an emoji?
5:11 PM
@EkadhSingh sounds like an iOS bug
I’m not very good at this 😅
2 hours later…
7:29 PM
8:25 PM
20 messages moved to Chimney
9:23 PM
hi @SonictheAnonymousHedgehog: re rollback here meta.stackexchange.com/posts/16067/revisions -- it doesn't agree with this: meta.stackexchange.com/a/254440/392799 -- because the bounty starter was not the author, and despite being accepted, the bounty was not auto-rewarded
so auto rewarding needs the second condition I added, the reason I looked it up: I offered a bounty, but not on my question, and an answer was accepted -- if I leave it, it gets nothing
I was planning to leave it, to give it the fullest exposure
@ymb1 The answer involved in the question you linked didn't receive any award, which means it didn't meet any auto-award criteria.
it did, being accepted
its score is 1 though
The thing that that paragraph states is that if the bounty starter was not the author, the answer to auto-award is still selected in the usual manner, but if it happens to have also been accepted by the author, it gets the full bounty instead of half
so accepted is not an auto-criteria
So if the bounty starter isn't the author, the accepted status merely decides the rep awarded, not the answer with which to award it
9:28 PM
super confused now
not your fault probably
> If the author offered the bounty, and accepted an answer that was posted after the bounty was started, that answer is awarded the full bounty.
this I understand, now the bounty starter is not the author, what happens when:
The "otherwise" section below it covers all other cases (both author offers where the author didn't accept, and all non-author offers)
got it! so in my case, if I do nothing, the accepted answer will get the full bounty, right?
its posted after, is +2, and is accepted
and I'm not the author/asker
I believe so. My source for that is this revision from November 2016; it's possible that things may have changed since then.
9:32 PM
it's all clear now, thanks for clearing that up, suggestion: reword it a bit to make it clearer otherwise includes non-author rewarders?
If it only gets half, file a bug citing that revision from Shog

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