« first day (3476 days earlier)      last day (1541 days later) » 

 
3 hours later…
3:37 AM
22 messages moved to Chimney
 
 
1 hour later…
4:58 AM
1 message moved to Chimney
3 messages moved to Chimney
 
5:52 AM
Why not 22 + 1 + 3 = 26, just 22, 1 , 3 RO script block the number ?
 
6:34 AM
@djsmiley2kTMW in my post on softwarerecs I already noted that owncloud and nextcloud cannot be used on a windows computer offline if I don't also have a linux server somewhere
I really don't want to have a linux OS running anywhere because I'm not experienced in linux at all and that means it's as good as an open window (haha, get it)
in other security news, latest WAN Show features some explanations of how the acquisition of PIA VPN is not going to affect its users… probably… maybe
 
 
1 hour later…
7:44 AM
two days old (!) anomalies @Bart @rene @Glor @Sonic
 
coughing due to dust raised by @Sonic's speed
!!/coffee rene
 
@Shadow9 brews a cup of Mocha for @rene
 
8:01 AM
1 message moved to Chimney
 
Finally disabled Windows Defender. After years of being fine it started to eat 100% CPU to the point it made the computer useless. Surprised it was fine for so many years, probably Microsoft tried to make it more efficient in the some recent update, just to totally ruin it. meh
(same update that added the huge search box in the bottom)
@Mithical Hush Puppy?
 
@Shadow9 I WILL NOT BE SLIENCED!
 
8:18 AM
@JourneymanGeek sure, but you can be silenced!
:P
 
So I wrote some bash this year
so I decided to self identify as a developer :D
sooo
Also, there's a question asking if I felt less welcome over the past year
I've said yes, and said it was the company's actions that did that :D
 
What... is it?? SO Survey?!
Doesn't it only ask for our gender, race, hobbies, height, and weight? After all that what matters most to the advertisers. (e.g. for one who weight more than 100kg, they'll put more diet ads)
 
oh that
also, I probably think google should have been an option there
I intentionally ticked on "South Asian" and "South Indian, Tamil" under race
Cause there's more to ethnicness than americans get
@Shadow9 If surveys matter more than meta, its essential folks post on the survey
 
@JourneymanGeek of course, but seeing 90% or more tick that option will be a mental blow to the survey writers/analyzers.
So they just ignore the obvious.
 
@Shadow9 I'd rather post my halfbaked question on google than SE :D
 
8:25 AM
lol
 
My workflow is "google" (which often leads me to SE) -> chat -> SE
 
@JourneymanGeek and if Google leads to [name redacted]? ;)
 
I'm looking for answers
and often I loop back to SU or SF to document things
 
@JourneymanGeek Even on [name redacted]!?!
:D
 
27
A: upstart scripts: run a task after networking goes up

Journeyman GeekApparently respawn console none start on (local-filesystems and net-device-up IFACE!=lo) stop on [!12345] script chdir /usr/local/gw6c/bin/ exec /usr/local/gw6c/bin/gw6c end script seems to work

Tried on google, tried on SF, tried on a local mailing list...
got the answer...
looped back
though, its now useless cause systemd
 
8:33 AM
Still, very noble of you to share.
My only self answered question on SO became pretty popular (11k views, more than a a few "answers" asking for bug fixing, etc) but low score. Not that I care, have my share of upvotes on the trivial answers I gave. lol
 
Well documentation is bad 😁
 
 
2 hours later…
10:39 AM
Isn't We're good at identifying and removing shite making us members of the Dalit caste?
 
@πάνταῥεῖ uhm
dude, that is totally offensive in... so many levels
1. They don't do that any more
2. social mobility is pretty important
3. India has modern sewers, septic tanks or people crap in the open
4. Unless its a train, but that's a story for another time
 
@JourneymanGeek I didn't mean that to be offensive. Just feeling underestimated and unwelcomed myself. And of course extrapolated with our work at SE.
 
@πάνταῥεῖ the bad old days should be over. They arn't sadly. But its worth remembering that other cultures have other sensitivities.
shrug Understanding is important
 
@JourneymanGeek I well know about that history, and what it became nowadays.
 
I think we're closer to the school kids picking up trash while a big corporation sticks a sign there and takes credit for the clean beach they just named after themselves if you ask me :D
 
10:49 AM
Thus they get all the credits and applause, but the real cleaners aren't mentioned or credited at all?
 
"Oh those pesky kids. No idea what they're doing here"
 
Is that a business model?
 
\o/
If you're selling naming rights for a beach maybe
 
Time to stop cleaning up?
 
10:55 AM
problem is we clean it up cause we like a clean beach
 
But we don't like government signs that don't acknowledge our existence
 
@JohnDvorak We could let them know who are the real curators and janitors that way.
 
Some signs are better than others
 
But it's already deeply in my blood and brain, so it's hard to stop for me.
 
I can't help but wonder who's the cow in this case.
 
10:58 AM
The cow was a bull
Passed on, rather ironically during a health checkup
 
And it's not holy? Better don't touch.
 
@πάνταῥεῖ That's kinda what's happening on Writing. They're slowly sinking due to a very large percentage of their contributors simply leaving.
 
@Mithical I've seen that desperate cry out at the MSO.
 
@πάνταῥεῖ that happening on SO would probably hurt
 
I didn't retract at SO, but was banned while arguing. That also hurts in a way.
 
11:05 AM
Well, I try not to argue. I try to make a point :D
 
....you know, it'd be possible to disable Smokey for SO only...
5
 
@Mithical would everyone involved agree though?
 
Sometimes you have to make a point ... with a dagger
 
@JourneymanGeek ..."everyone". Most of the active folks have dropped off. It would take the admins agreeing
!!/whois admin
 
@Mithical I am aware of 8 admins: thesecretmaster, Makyen, Thomas Ward, tripleee, angussidney, Andy, ArtOfCode, Undo - Reinstate Monica. None of them are currently in this room. Other users in this room might be able to help you.
 
11:07 AM
@Mithical that might be good enough
 
@SmokeDetector well that number doubled, when did that happen
 
@Mithical also, to some extent, as a protest, its worth deciding what's the effect you guys want, and whether its possible :D
 
There are currently... 11,716 items in review on metasmoke. I'd say activity dropped off quite sharply.
@JourneymanGeek To make management realize just how much they depend on their core userbase
 
@Mithical it... needs to actually hurt for that to happen
 
Indeed. Disabling Smokey on SO would certainly hurt.
 
11:13 AM
Would it affect sales in any way?
 
@JourneymanGeek I am afraid that is needed to make them realizing.
 
Coordinate with the mods, both SO mods + Smokey go on strike for a week. Log the posts to nuke them after the strike is over but don't report them to chat or autoflag. Smokey keeps running normally on the rest of the network.
5
 
@Mithical that's fairly reasonable as a show of force .
 
@JourneymanGeek What would the offer to sale in the long term tehn?
 
SO would be totally overrun with spam. Customers would notice.
 
11:15 AM
Well then, next question is "then what?"
and "how do you capitalise on that to catalyse change?"
 
I'm not sure about spam on SO. Smaller sites would be though, and SO would observe a measurable increase in unfriendliness. Both of which would be blamed on the community, of course
 
@JohnDvorak I think SO's the juicy target with the most views
 
but also too big to flood
 
@JourneymanGeek This would show SO that they need to placate the community. That the core community is unhappy, and there are hundreds of posts on meta.SE and meta.SO about it. They need to start giving the CMs more control and allow them to do the job they were hired to do. They need to take a step back and think about why the community is so unhappy.
 
CMs? What CMs?
 
11:18 AM
@Mithical as odd as it may seem, maybe tie it in with an explaination why (an open letter?)
 
That's one of the problems.
@JourneymanGeek Yep. That would be necessary.
....just CCing @ArtOfCode on this...
 
It's not only spam that hurts. VLQ questions and answers also do.
 
@πάνταῥεῖ the latest survey is asking if SO should be laxer on OT questions :D
 
Step 1. Write up an actionable list of what we want SO to do. Not an idealistic "listen to the community", but an actionable list of tangible actions. Step 2. Choose a week for a strike. Communicate about it off-site. Step 3. Coordinate with Smokey, SOBotics, SOCVR, and the SO mods, and suspend visible activity on Stack Overflow only for that week. Post the letter before starting. Step 4. Have a designated representative committee to approach SO the company about this.
2
 
And it's not bots who help to fix that.
 
11:23 AM
@Mithical Step 4 is missing on purpose?
 
No, typo
 
Step 4. Imagine how great it can be if it really works
 
Step 5: ???
 
@Shadow9 Well, what's the loss if it hasn't?
 
Posting on meta has not worked. Other methods of communication, such as social media, has also not worked. It might be time to get a bit more drastic.
 
11:24 AM
Well, to be serious, I won't spend time on that. Step 0. Don't bother.
 
@Shadow9 meh.
Might as well give up then
 
Exactly ^
I gave up hoping SE will get better. I'm here.... not sure why.
Maybe for the coffee?
 
@Shadow9 If you have a better method for forcing SO, Inc. to improve and stop destroying their community, I'm all ears.
 
inertia
 
@Shadow9 there is no coffee. Budget cuts
@Mithical I think his solution is to give up and watch it all burn.
 
11:26 AM
@Mithical that's the point: I don't have. But also prefer not to waste time trying to figure one, since there isn't.
I do wish you all luck of course. I'm not against any action.
@JourneymanGeek I need fire proof vest for that.
 
Well, I'm "young and idealistic", as my mother put it the other day. I'll roll with that description - and try to take action to force change.
 
@Mithical watch your head, the wall you're bumping into might be made of rock.
 
@JourneymanGeek At least you gain popcorn ;D
 
Though, you might wear one of those:
 
11:30 AM
fun fact: Viking helmets did not in fact have those horns, that's a myth
 
@Shadow9 there's a balance though, between pure cynicalness and crapping on every attempt for change, and being overidealistic
 
It's a HAT. Historically Accurate. Totally.
 
@Mithical actionable demands are kinda hard to define now. The most problematic actions by SE in my view (Monica / Shog & Robert) are pretty much irreversible now.
 
There's a plan of action, a goal, and a possibility to show what could happen
 
@SEisevil don't shut down any sites for boycotting elections. Don't shut down chat. Mention Charcoal in a blog.
 
11:32 AM
(also, that's why I filled out the survey for the first time. If they're listening to that, getting enough voices there might help too)
 
@Mithical is it a Myth, or a @Mith? ;)
@JourneymanGeek agree. Do note I don't crap on every attempt for change, I just state that personally I'm not going to do it. I do value those who try to make a change.
 
@Shadow9 well its in neither our hands
I'm not involved in smokey, nor are you.
But I can try to see if we can give folks the best chance they can to make it work by pointing out possible issues and what needs to be done
 
I could try and think of the list @Mithical asked for, and I would, if I believed there's a chance.
It reminds me of the protests we got in Israel trying to prevent third elections in one year.
 
I don't believe any one thing is going to make a difference. Many things might, but its a matter of working out what gets listened to, and getting past the things getting in our way.
 
OK, I'd like to invite all of you having a good drink and party here:
> https://hitchhikers.fandom.com/wiki/The_Restaurant_at_the_End_of_the_Universe
 
11:36 AM
@Shadow9 If we have a fourth I can legally vote
 
Not so sure who's paying in the end.
 
isn't it supposed to be compound interest?
 
@Mithical rest assured, we will have fourth. In September, or November this year. And fifth in March 2021.
The loop has one stop condition.
 
@Mithical You overestimate Smokey and underestimate the community.
 
@ArtOfCode that's typically my line :D
 
11:43 AM
Shamelessly stolen :P
 
@ArtOfCode That's why I said not just Smokey. Coordinate with Charcoal, SOCVR, SOBotics, and the SO mods.
 
But you probably can guess the effects better than me
 
Aye, there'd be some effect... but I don't think it'd be as big as you're hoping
 
I guess the question is "Will it be noticed" and "will it have the desired effect"
this is... politics
which sadly, good people are often terrible at.
 
@ArtOfCode true, SE staff can moderate SO for a week.
 
11:46 AM
@Shadow9 not nearly enough to do that I suspect
 
@JourneymanGeek enough what?
 
@Shadow9 to moderate SO
 
They'll just take developers, delaying new features and bug fixing.
 
@Shadow9 I think the dev team is like... 4-5 people?
Maybe get Prasanth and Sara in.
 
@JourneymanGeek much much much bigger
Not talking about who we see here, there are dozens, working on Teams, Jobs, Enterprise, etc.
 
11:47 AM
Actually wouldn't be a bad idea
@Shadow9 pulling people off teams and enterprise would hurt
but would they?
 
If SO starts having to redirect staff members to moderate SO, that's... definitely getting their attention.
 
@JourneymanGeek depends how bad things will be
 
@Shadow9 I'd argue that would have a net effect
 
But still, would need more than a week to make an impact
 
@Shadow9 there's a difference between a shot over the bow, and greeting people with a torpedo to the side.
Its important to be, and to be seen as reasonable.
 
11:49 AM
@Shadow9 I want it to be noticed, not ruin the site.
It has to be long enough to be noticed but not long enough to make fixing it impossible.
 
None of us want SO (company or site) to fail or fall to anarchy.
Well maybe not none of us...
but no one here
 
@Mithical is this something you want me to bring up with the RO team of SOCVR?
 
@rene If they'd be on board, that would be awesome - although it'd kinda dependent on everyone agreeing
 
Let me discuss this tonight (no access to the slack channel atm)
 
I kinda don't have time to really write something up this week (I have army stuff to deal with and heading across the country for a couple days), but I am compiling a rough list of issues that should be actionable.
 
11:53 AM
ok
 
Like, a five minute list -
Allow moderators to control featured / return of Hot Meta Posts

https://meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/392991/has-stack-exchange-rescinded-moderator-access-to-the-featured-tag-on-meta

---

Hire CMs / listen to existing CMs / stop telling the CMs not to manage the community

https://meta.stackexchange.com/questions/342039/firing-community-managers-stack-exchange-is-not-interested-in-cooperating-with

----

fix ads

https://stackexchange-timeline.webflow.io/#implemention-of-affiliate-ads

----
 
@Mithical The SO mods already defied the limitations on featuring meta posts and nothing happened, so I suspect SE has given up that battle. And the ads experiments seems to be on hold for months now
 
@SEisevil I think a critical, but insanely hard to be actionable thing is...
 
Otherwise this looks like a reasonable list
 
"Work with the community"
In so much that if anyone says part of the community dosen't matter, they really don't belong dealing with us at all.
 
 
2 hours later…
2:06 PM
hm
Helped a friend of mine write a question for SU :D
 
2020 is the year of "I really do have to do everything myself"
gonna die of old age if we wait on Elon to release catgirls
Elon's old age first probably, then ours
 
@user1306322 she's not super tech savvy, and well, always worth helping a friend :D
 
@user1306322 ???
 
it's also pretty cool to do things with computers, I gotta say, despite everything
 
looking for missing context
finding @It'sOver instead
 
e_e
Just one of his weird tweets
 
it's an old meme at this point but whatever catgirls are still relevant
 
Seen a bunch
 
he got tired of waiting and decided to make cars, rockets and other stuff
 
Instead of catgirls?
What a loss
:D
 
2:15 PM
who's gonna get tired of waiting for catgirls, hit me up I'm a developer
 
Maybe we should ask Elon Musk to buy SE and save us all :P
 
well, if you read the first tweet I linked, he half-jokingly says all of this is a pre-requisite for a great catgirl-filled future
 
Space.SE will become the flag site.
 
@Shadow9 actually not a bad idea
among all the improbable things, this is more probable then SE management turning good again
 
One tweet from him, and Space.SE get more views than SO.
@user1306322 too true
 
2:18 PM
well, I don't have any twitter accounts but people have had success getting a response from him when he's on a tweet rampage
idk might investigate an elon-pestiring twitter bot later :p
 
lol
I've seen some random woman replying to a tweet from a children's book author, and getting a reply from him. She wasn't expecting it at all. :D
Let's see if I can find it, Twitter search isn't.... great.
 
yea I get the mobile version on desktop for some reason and I can't shake that cookie for weeks
private browsing mode and deleting cookies manually doesn't help
 
Found! Luckily I don't have many notifications, so it was easy to find. ;)
@user1306322 of Twitter?? Ouch
 
ye I prefer to consume tweets via api these days ;s
consummé
one trick 2d animators hate ^
 
hmm
1
Q: Google Chrome always shows Twitter mobile view

jkozmaI have been looking at twitter.com in Google Chrome browser, Version 64.0.3282.186 (Official Build) (64-bit). I use a number of extensions, all enabled except as noted: BehindTheOverlay 0.1.3 Bookmarks Reorderer 2.0.1 CanvasFingerprintBlock 1.5 Cisco WebEx Extension 1.0.12 (not enabled) Cookies...

@user1306322 did you try to disable all extensions too?
 
2:25 PM
I think it's because I have a 4k monitor now
this wasn't a thing before
mobile devices probably have around that kind of resolution so it interprets mine as a mobile with some retina-like display
> Make America Kittens Again 1.2.2 (not enabled)
wat
 
Enable and see what happens
 
I can't enable extensions in other people's browsers… yet…
 
oh lol
Where you saw it?
 
on the post you linked
I noticed people don't always read the things they link in this room lol
 
:D
busted
But hey, I read the title!
 
2:32 PM
that's a modern day disease
 
@BlueSoul already knows that detail about me too well. ;)
 
I noticed it's very rare that someone visits a reported post and upvotes the good posts if they're actually good
so I do it when I can
I'd encourage others but eh
this is as much as I care about it at this point
 
@user1306322 That's not the goal of Smokey
 
no I know but
 
It's meant for quick deletion of spam. Also, usually we can't really know when answers are good or bad without spending time on reading them in depth. People usually don't have such time. :/
 
2:37 PM
the question is basic but useful if you ever encounter such a problem and google for it
the answer has step-by-step screenshots, most useful
don't really need to read much, time spent is about a minute tops
 
Also... if it will happen often people might notice, and blame Smokey for being a source of "targeted voting" and such crap.... better not give them ammunition.
 
Rob
@Shadow9 Catgirls is the new (different, etc.) spin on Virtual Valerie (Barely SFW) - whether the spin is better or worse isn't the primary point.
 
2:57 PM
back in the day I used to target all unvoted posts I saw
@Rob now that's a reference I was not aware of
 
3:36 PM
/me looks in
hmmmm teh ground is so saturated right now the washing machine is backing up D:
glad I fitted the overflow valve now :D
 
3:56 PM
@Mithical step 1.5 send the post to Yaakov. He can try to coordinate with you and get it on front of the right people, because he is aware of and part of internal initiatives in this direction anyway. And he can at least let you know what is feasible or not.
8
 
hmm.... I have a crazy idea
Meetup IRL of the three of us.
:D
!!/meetup
 
@Shadow9 No such command 'meetup'.
 
:(
Smokey fine, you're out!
 
@YaakovEllis (thumbs up)
 
handing over 👍 to @Mithical
Use it wisely!
 
@Shadow9 I'm in. Just the three of us?
 
@SEisevil not really. The rules have changed but they’re not finalized so they’re not public but they’re not going against the rules.
 
4:19 PM
@YaakovEllis looks like we're the only people from Israel who are active around here.
If anyone can pull a miracle it's you, @Yaakov - so yeah, I'm in. @Mithical any chance for this to happen? (IRL meeting with Yaakov, I can take half day off work for that, and pick you up from some train station to the meeting - if you're in guess we better move to private chat, if not - also fine.)
(Can also move to Twitter DM group - we're all on Twitter ;))
 
I mean I'll be up near Tel Aviv Tuesday... ;)
 
@Mithical too soon, need some התרעה מראש for that. :)
So it means you're in, in theory at least?
 
In theory, yes. In practice, it's a bit hard for me to get from the Golan to other places
 
@Mithical ugh... so after Tuesday, when you're next due to the Merkaz?
 
.....Wednesday
 
4:31 PM
lol
 
After that, though, no idea. ;)
 
4:47 PM
@Shadow9 That is a very crazy idea
 
@It'sOver only if you'll arrive too. ;)
 
Netanyahu loves me, I can tell you that much
So much that if he sees me, or one of his people, he won't be able to let go
 
steal his kidney
 
5:18 PM
Hello there,

https://area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/123866/arabic-language

I think arabic.stackexchange.com is _long_ due.

if you mind, could you support the area51-proposal by hitting the follow-button?

Thanks!
 
good luck with that
 
y'know they're not creating communities like that any more
 
@Shadow9 props to you guys for still having faith and putting good effort into this
I'm gonna be over here working on contingency software, cheering you on from behind the electric press :p
 
@Gewure Nope!
 
what's the scope o_O
 
5:30 PM
@Gewure actually you have better chances to start a Q&A outside of StackExchange network, be it for programming or language learners or whatever
 
6:04 PM
@It'sOver Sarah will be too jealous
@Gewure waste of time
 
 
2 hours later…
7:36 PM
@user1306322 to be clear, I have faith in Yaakov the person, not in SE the company
 
8:02 PM
are there any fun things one could build with an arduino?
actually I'm probably looking for something useful that would make the work worthwhile, not just "fun" :p
a long time ago I wanted to add RGBW LED strips to my room lighting and people said the only way to control it precisely was to build and program an arduino controller
now there's too many other things I'd like to do before that
I gotta look up what other people do with arduinos
those clocks are getting out of hand
buckwheat breadboard, yes
 
Husband used one to make a lighted motorcycle jacket. Even connected to the bike so it’d light up when he hit the brake and turned on blinkers.
 
that's pretty useful
 
8:27 PM
idk, anything I can think of is done in software and much cooler than open door detectors or clocks which I can also do in software :p
 
8:58 PM
@user1306322 You could turn old floppy disk drives into musical instruments
 
9:34 PM
not realistically though
I tried doing music and something in my brain is not wired for creating it
maybe I'm approaching it wrong, but at this point I've tried it so many times without success that I gave up and the thought of it frustrates me
so yea, that really struck a chord :s
 

« first day (3476 days earlier)      last day (1541 days later) »