Tavern on the Meta

forest

12:00 AM

@SonictheAnonymousWizHog That was after the kick.

Journeyman Geek

@SonictheAnonymousWizHog no. It's annoying.

Sonic the Anonymous WizHog

Did Adam Lear tell you in a private chat that he found it annoying when I pinged him about it?

Journeyman Geek

Dosen't matter

Sonic the Anonymous WizHog

So what is the proper way to ask a specific mod why they took a certain moderator action?

Journeyman Geek

You flag asking about the action with details

We will sort out routing

Sonic the Anonymous WizHog

12:04 AM

Where will I receive my answer?

Journeyman Geek

That said if you are constantly flagging actions for review, you need to either trust us or accept ineffability

forest

@JourneymanGeek Does that also apply to chat? For example if I want to ask for a rule clarification. I know that chat flags work in slightly different ways.

Journeyman Geek

@SonictheAnonymousWizHog mods work in mysterious ways. Presumably by an accepted flag and action taken

@forest I'm a big fan of gentle reminders. Not helping isn't just a hint.

forest

@JourneymanGeek I dropped the whole Twitter thing when you first asked.

When you said not helpful (I apologize for mentioning it).

Journeyman Geek

@SonictheAnonymousWizHog practically - there's three main things we really need you to do

forest

12:08 AM

What I'm more curious about is why it happened a second time, despite me following your directions (or at least, how I interpreted your hint). Was it just a mistake?

Journeyman Geek

Actually learn to trust people know what they are doing. Fundamentally - damn near everyone who handles a flag and is staff has lots of experience on the network

Your curiosity comes across as second guessing

forest

(Do I just flag any comment in here or a specific one by you to get attention?)

If I understand what you've been saying, at least.

Sonic the Anonymous WizHog

To be clear here, the ping was not because I distrusted his actions. I simply want to know things for both curiosity and so that I can learn to properly use my newly-granted privilege of protecting questions.

Journeyman Geek

Secondly - realize that people do not owe you their time

@SonictheAnonymousWizHog honestly? It comes across strongly as such

Sonic the Anonymous WizHog

As the question was unprotected right after I protected it, perhaps I was wrong to protect it - so I want to know why it was unprotected, so I know when and when not to use the ability.

Journeyman Geek

12:11 AM

@forest i'm busy and trying to teach. Sush please

@SonictheAnonymousWizHog the last is tricky

forest

@JourneymanGeek Understood. I will flag this comment asking for details as you have suggested to Sonic, so you can deal with it later.

Journeyman Geek

You spend a lot of time trying to curate the site. Front page full of your edits. Trying to understand every nuance of the network... Sometime when. There's none. You might want to consider another hobby too.

@forest practically I needed the stage and the last time you suggested a paste bin we had that join/quit troll

forest

@JourneymanGeek I sent a flag so you can respond with that (or however it works).

Huh? Paste bin and join/quit troll?

Journeyman Geek

Yup

forest

thinking back

Journeyman Geek

12:15 AM

Had to deal with that one for weeks

forest

That one girl who really, really wanted someone to talk to mods for her?

Journeyman Geek

Entirely your fault for suggesting it to a chatbanned user

Yes

forest

I can assure you, I had nothing to do with the join/quit trolling. In fact, I had talked with her using a paste site specifically so she wouldn't keep spamming with joins.

Journeyman Geek

And yet she did

Sonic the Anonymous WizHog

@JourneymanGeek You could just use the "ignore" button

forest

12:16 AM

Most of the time she was just talking to me off this site. If she kept joining and parting, that wasn't my doing. She was already doing that long before I started talking to her.

Journeyman Geek

@SonictheAnonymousWizHog sure

But that's besides the point

forest

Anyway my suggestion to Sonic had absolutely nothing to do with joins/parts.

I'm sorry if you thought I was suggesting that he trolls with joins. I'm not sure how suggesting to use a paste site to get around flag box character limits is implying that they troll.

Sonic the Anonymous WizHog

@forest:

10

Q: What can moderators do about suspended chat users who attempt to engage with users via their chat profiles?

Recently, we encountered a rather persistent user in a chat room, repeatedly attempting to engage with other users in the chat by editing their chat profile description and repeatedly leaving and re-entering the room in order to draw attention to themselves with the entry animation. Some users do...

The discussion is all there, Journeyman Geek even answered it

forest

Yep I remember that.

I just take offense to being kicked by Journey misunderstanding what I was suggesting. I can't understand how any suggesting involving a paste automatically means that I am suggesting that sonic put a paste in his user profile and then spam joins and parts. It's nonsensical.

Journeyman Geek

@forest fundamentally there's actually times when extreme free speech isn't good.

@forest actually I think I had a good idea of what was going on

forest

12:19 AM

@JourneymanGeek But you thought I was implying that Sonic join/part trolls?

I get that you misunderstand English terms sometimes, but it would be really nice if you would give people benefit of the doubt and not jump to the conclusion that I am suggesting someone troll. Perhaps you could have asked me what I meant, if you were unsure.

Sonic the Anonymous WizHog

Can kick logs even be removed?

If not, it's not worth discussing this over unless there were three consecutive kicks (which notifies other mods and bans inviting and creating new rooms)

forest

@SonictheAnonymousWizHog Are kick logs even kept? I know that suspension logs are.

Journeyman Geek

@forest no. I'm saying you kinda might miss things

Sonic the Anonymous WizHog

@forest Yes, they are

forest

@JourneymanGeek Well, I'm sure I know what I meant better than you do.

Sonic the Anonymous WizHog

12:21 AM

Only visible to ROs and mods.

forest

And I don't see how you connected the dots between me suggesting "something to do with a paste" to me somehow recommending that Sonic trolls you.

I would love if you would clarify.

Now, my fear is that I'll get suspended again because I say a word that reminds you of something bad in the past, e.g. if I suggest something to do with a picture and then you kick me because I had posted that shock image by mistake. I want to avoid that, by understanding exactly why my suggestions are "not helpful" (which apparently equates to against the rules) when the only issue with them is that they remind you of something bad that happened in the past.

@JourneymanGeek So if I am missing things... please clarify so that I do not miss them.

@SonictheAnonymousWizHog How do ROs see it? I'm an RO in another room but I see nothing like that. Is it only Tavern ROs or something?

Journeyman Geek

Fundamentally? You're making a fuss cause you feel like I'm infringing on folks free speech

Sonic the Anonymous WizHog

I forget

forest

@JourneymanGeek Huh?

Journeyman Geek

No. You got kicked cause you literally were being u helpful

forest

12:26 AM

I don't think this has anything to do with free speech.

Journeyman Geek

No. You got kicked cause you literally were being unhelpful

Sonic the Anonymous WizHog

As far as I can tell, forest posted the following two messages after their first kick, before being kicked a second time:

Journeyman Geek

Damnit autocorrect

Sonic the Anonymous WizHog

28 mins ago, by forest

You could add a link to a paste site I guess.

forest

@SonictheAnonymousWizHog Yes, I posted two messages. I stopped talking about Twitter as Journey kicking me after my snark was a clear message. My messages were suggesting that Sonic get around the character limit by using a link.

Sonic the Anonymous WizHog

12:27 AM

27 mins ago, by forest

Ah, the whole "I never kick anyone without warnings" thing... Would you mind telling me if I'm saying something that you don't want me to say? I would appreciate that.

Journeyman Geek

So practically - I was trying to suggest a fairly major course correction on multiple things

forest

But how Journey equated that to... the join/part troll, I have no idea.

Journeyman Geek

Pastebin? But hey that was unhelpful too

forest

How was that unhelpful?

It solved the problem of a limited character count.

Plus, being unhelpful on its own isn't against the rules. For example, if links are disallowed in flag comment sections, then would that be the difference between getting kicked and not?

Journeyman Geek

Ah. But I was actually trying to inform Sonic that certain behaviors would annoy

And eh. Rules lawyering is kinda unhelpful too

Sonic the Anonymous WizHog

12:35 AM

Well, in any case, the point of that first message was just to explain that my first ping to him wasn't just to ask a totally random question or to fast-track a request. I've received specific complaints about doing those things and have stopped doing that.

@JourneymanGeek I did exactly that in the Travel chat room once. I was told to ping moderators for that next time.

Journeyman Geek

@SonictheAnonymousWizHog that's different

So big picture - I want folks who work here to be able to come to the room and well... Not have to wear their employee hats

And this isn't travel. We have different ways of doing things and problems

@SonictheAnonymousWizHog honestly - most people are too nice to tell you outright something us annoying. This is a recurring theme

And sometimes, honestly, you miss these things even when they tell you

If you want to understand how things properly work - sometimes, you need to consider people and their reactions as much as well, mechanics

And well - learning to use those mechanics effectively for broader change

(but that's something in process for me, and I might never work out all of it)

Sonic the Anonymous WizHog

12:52 AM

-1

Q: Where do I find the rules and guidelines for Meta chat?

The rules for the main site are clearly spelled out, but that isn't the case for chat. In order to understand the rules best without imposing on mods for every little thing or risking getting kicked for something that I do not consider obvoius, I'd like to know if there are any specific rules and...

support chat

Journeyman Geek

Yes, I noticed. Considering everything, If I'm going to answer I'm going to wait a bit.

Cause I think the intent of that question is pretty clear - and well, I don't think I feel like spending time on this right now.

One problem at a time

forest

:/

@JourneymanGeek Please stop assuming intent when you do not understand my intent.

I am genuinely trying to find out how to avoid all this crap.

Please state in unambiguous words what I need to do. I find it unhelpful to get kicked over making a suggestion that doesn't help and not told what is wrong. Please humor me. I suspect you are going to kick me for saying this (without telling me why), but I'd like you to at least read my request. Thank you.

Sonic the Anonymous WizHog

But it is OK for him to answer in general, right?

forest

@SonictheAnonymousWizHog Sure, but I suspect he's just going to be passive aggressive.

I know he dislikes me so I'd rather not have that conflict of interest.

Sonic the Anonymous WizHog

@forest That's...borderline offensive

forest

1:02 AM

@SonictheAnonymousWizHog Saying he dislikes me is offensive?

I don't mean to cause offense. I just perceive that he dislikes me.

Sonic the Anonymous WizHog

True, but saying that out loud in a public room where that person is also present is...

forest

Huh? It's not a secret. He dislikes me. I didn't say that I dislike him.

Sonic the Anonymous WizHog

I didn't find the kicks as evidence he "dislikes" you.

forest

Oh. No I can tell he dislikes me for more than just a few kicks.

Sonic the Anonymous WizHog

He was talking to me about something and it seemed to me (both of us?) as if you were trying to interject with talk about your kicks.

forest

1:05 AM

@SonictheAnonymousWizHog I didn't notice that. If he had told me that, I would have waited for you to be finished. Chat is asynchronous so "interruption" isn't always as big a deal.

Sonic the Anonymous WizHog

It makes it more difficult to read transcripts

And I also consider it impolite

forest

@SonictheAnonymousWizHog Well, explaining that to me helps.

Much more than just kicking without saying anything.

Journeyman Geek

Honestly? I was cooking breakfast

It helps no one to post on an empty stomach

and me... passive?

I mean, I can be sneaky or even ineffable, but I do take a very active role in shaping the spaces I am in.

@forest eh, we're at odds over certain things. Shadows and Vorlons, chaos and order.Assassins and Templars ...

But I'm hardly passive agressive over these things.

Sonic the Anonymous WizHog

delv-pls 2k+ NAA meta.stackexchange.com/review/low-quality-posts/66209

forest

1:37 AM

heh, suspension for saying that you always downvote me is over :p

@JourneymanGeek Oh, were you just being short or something? I understand that I guess.

Still irritating, though.

Journeyman Geek

@forest well, part of the idea of suspensions or kicks is for the person to calm down

Not stew over why they got kicked

forest

@JourneymanGeek I really wish we weren't. You seem to enjoy finding reasons to kick me (like making a suggestion that doesn't help? And, of course, when pointing that out and asking for details, for "rule lawyering") without explaining, and that just makes me more irritable.

Sonic the Anonymous WizHog

...and also to put a quick stop to the problematic behavior

Journeyman Geek

@forest naw, I do not take any joy in kicking folks, ever.

Ok, other than recycle

@forest if you assume its personal... its not going to help at all

forest

@JourneymanGeek I'm asking you this directly. If I'm doing something that is against the rules which is not obvious, could you please just be frank with me and tell me?

Journeyman Geek

1:39 AM

I have two sites, two main chatrooms, each of which has their own challenges.

@forest so... here's the thing

There's no rulebook

You need to actually be mindful of what's happening, and what folks are trying to do

forest

For example, could you say "saying that a mod has an issue with you is against the rules", instead of saying "if you assume it's personal[...]", because I can't tell if that's a demand or not.

Journeyman Geek

@forest well this makes it personal

So, no

I do not enjoy kicking you

forest

But you keep doing it and refusing to tell me why.

I mean the first time wrt Twitter, I understood, so I stopped saying that.

But I still have no idea why you kicked me for mentioning pastes.

Journeyman Geek

@forest well, I was trying to put a point across to sonic

not helping literally means not helping.

forest

I read the scroll log. I tried to be helpful because you told Sonic to use the flag box, and I suggested a means to use it more effectively, then got kicked.

Journeyman Geek

1:41 AM

So, now that I told you it was unhelpful - and honestly, I really needed sonic's full attention and mine...

@forest I was also actually trying to get a much broader point across over behaviour and pinging

forest

@JourneymanGeek Then rather than kicking me because something something join/part trolls in the past, wouldn't it be better if you told me "I want to talk to Sonic alone. Don't give any advice"?

If you had said that, I would have said "ok" and nothing would have happened.

Journeyman Geek

@forest honestly - if you're going to spend an hour or two arguing over ... well a 30 minute suspension. I'm done.

2

I have better things to do.

forest

I wasn't the one talking about pings.

I only got involved when I tried to say something helpful, and got kicked for it.

@JourneymanGeek Eh the suspension was automatic. I'm not arguing about that one.

(It was automatic, wasn't it?)

Anyway, I would just appreciate it if you would listen to:

2 mins ago, by forest

@JourneymanGeek Then rather than kicking me because something something join/part trolls in the past, wouldn't it be better if you told me "I want to talk to Sonic alone. Don't give any advice"?

I would really like it if you would do that. Just humor me.

@JourneymanGeek Is that too much to ask? That's all I want.

Journeyman Geek

@forest which would have distracted sonic.

forest

Telling me "I want to talk to Sonic alone" is distracting?

Journeyman Geek

1:45 AM

So, I literally spend a good chunk of my day moderating the site and chat. I know the people here and what works with folks.

@forest with sonic? Yes.

Sonic the Anonymous WizHog

@JourneymanGeek Just an observation; I wouldn't have been distracted.

(Just saying, as an observer)

Journeyman Geek

@SonictheAnonymousWizHog I was convinced you would.

forest

Well it clearly wasn't a good idea, because it lead to me being even more pushy after being kicked simply because it was easier than telling me "I want this to be a private discussion".

Journeyman Geek

@forest well the other option was an actual suspension - and I like that even less.

forest

No, the other option was simply saying "we're busy, I want this to be a private convo".

Journeyman Geek

1:47 AM

So, I'd actually like you to be mindful of what's happening on chat, and at least trust me a little to act in the best interests of the chat.

At least here - since I'm invested in trying to work through the problems we have here.

forest

And this is a public chat room anyway. It's really upsetting to have no way to know that the chat was in a "if you talk, you get kicked because this is a 1-on-1" mode.

Journeyman Geek

@forest that its a public chatroom is precisely why you need to try to be aware of when, well, things are serious.

forest

Because now I realize that I was kicked because you didn't want to tell me that I wasn't allowed to talk because you suspected that one sentence would distract someone. I find that really offensive.

@JourneymanGeek But so serious that anyone other than you and Sonic talking would lead to getting kicked? I mean, I read the scroll log and couldn't even imagine that was the case.

Journeyman Geek

Nope

if they were helpful, I'd probably have let them have their say.

forest

I tried to be helpful.

Journeyman Geek

1:49 AM

But hey, I did let you know you weren't

forest

(modulo the Twitter thing, and I'll own up to that)

@JourneymanGeek Only after kicking me.

Journeyman Geek

you kept at it. Then again after getting kicked once

forest

No, I didn't. I made a real suggestion after getting kicked.

Journeyman Geek

"Hey, I got kicked, maybe... I should check once its quieter"

quieter

yanno, after the big serious conversation going on ?

forest

oops, accidentally deleted that, wut

Journeyman Geek

1:50 AM

See? That's precisely the problem

forest

That doesn't follow at all. I thought "Hey, I got kicked for being snarky about Twitter. OK, I admit my mistake. I'll be serious now and give a real suggestion".

But then I got kicked again. You can't expect me to know why.

Journeyman Geek

Which incidentally everyone else remembered wasn't helpful

forest

Remembered?

Journeyman Geek

What if. JUST WHAT IF... you thought

forest

What is it you think I was suggesting? Please tell me. Did you think I was suggesting anything to do with that join/part spam? I'd really like to know because that would explain a lot.

Journeyman Geek

1:51 AM

"Ok, what the hell is he trying to do?"

I mean, I'm a mod right? If I wanted sonic to have more words, I'd tell him "Hey, use pastebin"

forest

@JourneymanGeek I'd like an elaboration on this please.

Journeyman Geek

@forest well, you clearly didn't consider what someone who was already join/part spamming would do with that.

Which was more join and part spamming

forest

@JourneymanGeek No one is joining/parting right now.

OK, you did misunderstand my suggestion then, it seems.

Journeyman Geek

besides the point

forest

My suggestion was to put a link in the flag box once, not to put it in a user profile and then join/part spam. I would not suggest the latter because it is clearly abuse.

Journeyman Geek

1:54 AM

but that was poor judgement when trying to be 'helpful'

forest

Again, you misunderstood my suggestion.

I was not suggesting join/part spam. That would indeed be poor judgement.

Journeyman Geek

So - here I am, trying to work through sonic with something I see an issue

and I see

twitter

and a reminder of past poor judgement on your part

And I JUST NEED TO GET VERY IMPORTANT POINTS THROUGH CAUSE I ACTUALLY WANT THINGS TO GET BETTER.

forest

So you kicked me simply because a word I said reminded you of poor judgement?

Journeyman Geek

sigh

Ya, I'm really out.

forest

Ugh. I'm honestly trying to figure out the reasoning here.

2 hours ago, by forest

@SonictheAnonymousWizHog It'd be hard to ask questions that way with the character limit.

2 hours ago, by forest

You could add a link to a paste site I guess.

To anyone else (as I understand Journey doesn't want to talk about this and I'm having a very hard time explaining it to him), I would like to understand how this was inappropriate.

Is there another mod I can talk to? Or should I ask via the contact email?

Because I really, really don't think that mentioning a paste site and reminding Journey of "past poor judgment on my part" is worthy of getting kicked. And that's not even considering the fact that my pastebin suggestion actually alleviated the join/part spam to a large extent.

@JourneymanGeek Anyway, this is why I feel like this is personal. Because as soon as you get close to explaining something, you leave me hanging. I feel like you are doing this on purpose. I'm being frank here. It upsets me. It feels like I am being targeted.

Sonic the Anonymous WizHog

2:01 AM

@forest It's not about the specific things you mentioned. From what I can tell, he considered it impolite for you to interrupt a conversation where he wanted to chat one-on-one with me without distractions, and given your past behavior, he figured a kick would be an easier way to say "stop it, we're having a conversation".

forest

@SonictheAnonymousWizHog I get that, but he changed his reasoning from "I don't want to distract Sonic by saying it's a private conversation" to something entirely different.

And to be honest, my suggesting the paste thing during the join/part spam actually made the problem better. I don't know why he associates that whole ordeal with me.

Sonic the Anonymous WizHog

Again, it's not about the specific things you mentioned.

forest

Just about him not wanting to distract you by telling me it's a private convo?

Because he told me that if what I said was helpful, he wouldn't have kicked.

That's why I'm seeing severe contradictions that make understanding this hard.

I'm thinking I should bring this up with another mod, like Tinkeringbell or someone. I don't feel that it's appropriate to kick someone because you don't want to tell them that the conversation is one-on-one only. In general, if you don't want others to talk at all, you find a private room. I feel like this is mod power abuse to kick someone instead of, well, telling them "this is a private convo".

@SonictheAnonymousWizHog I just re-read the scroll log. There are contradictions in what Journey claims are his reasons and I can't make heads or tails of it. :/

Sonic the Anonymous WizHog

You could ask about it on meta

forest

Oh, good point.

About whether or not it's appropriate for a mod to use moderator tools against someone who walks in on a one-on-one conversation, rather than telling that person it's one-on-one only?

Journeyman Geek

2:09 AM

Hey, sonic? Considering I'm clearly frustrated with the situation...

how did that help?

Sonic the Anonymous WizHog

@JourneymanGeek I was just trying to explain it the best I could, so that they understand.

If you want me to stop, I will.

forest

(I'm finding it helpful, personally)

Journeyman Geek

@forest I'd like the chatroom to be less toxic

now, basically dragging this on as long as it has is... seriously annoying.

So, at some point I'll answer your question.

But I'd like you to drop it.

I'll make sure the other mods have a link to the whole conversation and I'll ask them to review

forest

OK. Thank you for telling me up front. If that is a moderator demand, I will respect it.

I'll ask on Meta about the appropriateness of using a kick that way, and leave it at that.

Sonic the Anonymous WizHog

Anyway...

More than a month later, I'm now getting around to scanning the rolls of photos I took at Walt Disney World last month.

Alex

2:14 AM

...

forest

@Alex ?

Alex

@forest It was a prompt to Sonic to finish the thought, but his next comment got posted before mine, so it just looks weird now.

forest

oh lol

Journeyman Geek

lol

@Alex UNFORTUNATELY, I can't reorganise the order of chat messages.

2

Alex

That would be a useful privilege.

Journeyman Geek

2:16 AM

@SonictheAnonymousWizHog like, using one of those things you load a roll of film into?

@Alex probably impossible without low level DB access ;p

Sonic the Anonymous WizHog

@JourneymanGeek Using a flatbed scanner

Alex

@JourneymanGeek So let's get us some access!

Journeyman Geek

@Alex lol

EVEN if every single thing went to plan, that's not somewhere I particularly seeing myself ending up XD

and even if I did, it would be a silly reason to use awesomegodlikepowers.

forest

Is it appropriate to post a Meta question about a specific event?

Sonic the Anonymous WizHog

@forest Yes

forest

2:21 AM

Alright. I just hate having to collect all the background. :p

Alex

There are tags for just about every permutation of "specific" except for specific-event.

forest

Hm those are for specific sites, not specific events. I see.

That's weird. It says image not found but it loaded for me when I clicked it.

Alex

@forest So that claim was unfounded.

forest

Huh?

Alex

A pun.

forest

2:32 AM

I'm having a very hard time collecting the information that would present all sides correctly for a Meta question. I might just end up asking another moderator for advice directly.

Oh great, and I can't delete my previous question to ask it again after rewording it.

How should I go about creating a new question that asks for general information, and not a response to this specific advice? Should I create a duplicate but add that requirement?

Sonic the Anonymous WizHog

@forest The answer has no upvotes, you can delete it.

forest

Thank you.

I will create a new question later and be more precise that I am talking about general rules.

Sonic the Anonymous WizHog

@forest However, I did find the answer to be a valid answer to the question about general rules.

Or do you mean also including other chat rooms?

forest

It explained a subset of rules that were relevant in this case, but I am looking for either a general list, or a link to any rules that are considered official. That answer only talked about the whole "interrupting" thing which is not what I want to talk about.

Sonic the Anonymous WizHog

@forest Deleting and reposting often leads to negative reception. I'd edit your previous question to make it more clear and undelete it.

forest

2:39 AM

If there is no such list and rules are made up ad hoc by moderators to excuse individual moderator actions, then such an answer would be satisfactory (albeit disappointing).

@SonictheAnonymousWizHog It will be a different question. I phrased that one poorly.

After all, it's not very good to change the requirements in a question after an answer.

Sonic the Anonymous WizHog

Alright, if it's different...

forest

yup

Journeyman Geek

2:54 AM

@forest I do not appreciate the insinuation here

Practically - I'm finding this entire exchange, and how you're dealing with this extremely hostile, and toxic.

So kindly stop it.

forest

I feel like there is hostility all around. I will stop it if you wish. Thank you for telling me.

Sonic the Anonymous WizHog

3:27 AM

What should be done with this answer?

21

A: Reward finding duplicate questions - +10, +2, -5

As requested by the bounty: This question has an open bounty worth +500 reputation from Pekka ending in 13 hours. This question has not received enough attention I will award this bounty to the answer that agrees most with the suggestion, or makes a good counter-argument. Alternati...

Basically, it was posted in response to a bounty remark which jokingly stated it would be awarded to unrelated answers with funny pictures.

forest

I'd flag it as NAA.

Sonic the Anonymous WizHog

(And it did indeed earn a bounty)

Since it qualifies for reputation retention anyway, I'd delete it.

forest

I've flagged it myself since it's clearly nonsense.

Sonic the Anonymous WizHog

Link to LQ task: meta.stackexchange.com/review/low-quality-posts/66212

@forest Too bad, you can't participate in its deletion now

forest

Yeah but at least I can flag it.

Sonic the Anonymous WizHog

3:30 AM

And it will require one more Looks OK review to be dismissed with that outcome.

ShaWiz

6:40 AM

@JourneymanGeek that's tricky. Since this is the official meta chat room, SE staff do wear their employee hat when arriving.

They can take it off, but we can't expect people to ignore it.

Journeyman Geek

@ShaWiz sure but pinging them every time they are here... Gets tiring

Marshmallow

@Journey

ShaWiz

Did Sonic ping any staff except JNat lately?

I didn't notice.

Marshmallow

Morning

ShaWiz

Ponging

@Journeyman also, by "staff" do you also mean the site mods i.e. you and Tink as well?

Marshmallow

6:43 AM

@ShaWiz They're "stuff" not "staff"

ShaWiz

I also was under the impression that in a per-site chat room, it's fine to ask mods to perform moderation stuff.

Of course with a limit, not hammer them with requests.

@Marshmallow ur face are stuff

:D

Journeyman Geek

@ShaWiz I don't work here. But you don't always have to ping us to get our attention

Marshmallow

@ShaWiz I think what @Journey is saying is they shouldn't always be coming here all the time only because of a ping related to some SE feature

@JourneymanGeek Fetch!

IOW, this shouldn't be some strictly professional, intimidating place for them

Mithrandir

Pinging anyone constantly is an issue, not just staff. It just happens that we encounter this issue with staff most often.

Journeyman Geek

Yup

Marshmallow

6:46 AM

Yep

So basically, I don't think @Journey's saying something you disagree with @Sha.

Journeyman Geek

@ShaWiz I can't speak for other sites - but we actually have a seperate room for moderation issues

So in this case "hey, this user is a spammer" is probably enough to get my attention.

Marshmallow

Wha? Den?

ShaWiz

@Journeyman @Mithrandir so can we put this one aside by simply asking @Sonic (and anyone else) not to ping moderators here with simple moderation requests that can be handled with flags?

Journeyman Geek

@ShaWiz thats... what I did

ShaWiz

nah

Marshmallow

6:49 AM

Good rule.

ShaWiz

Not direct enough.

Journeyman Geek

Or in this case he dosen't have to specifically ping me but I will deal with them if I see em

Marshmallow

Of course, SO's meta room thought about it the second day it was created again

Sonic the Anonymous WizHog

Conversation between Sonic and Adam Lear

15 hours ago, 1 hour 8 minutes total – 21 messages, 3 users, 0 stars

Bookmarked 11 secs ago by Sonic the Anonymous WizHog

@ShaWiz Here's the transcript log.

Adam Lear had just unprotected a question I had protected, and then subsequently that question received a spam answer. So I pinged him asking why he had unprotected it.

Journeyman Geek

@ShaWiz tbh it all boils down to "Trust the folks around you to do the right thing"

Marshmallow

6:51 AM

Wow OK, that kinda does look bad, Sonic

Journeyman Geek

But that's kinda hard

Sonic the Anonymous WizHog

Perhaps I was missing something. Perhaps a new user had requested unprotection since they were planning to post an answer.

ShaWiz

@AdamLear somehow JNat also delete that stub, after he's done it gives back Page Not Found

Sonic the Anonymous WizHog

7 hours ago, by Sonic the Anonymous WizHog

To be clear here, the ping was not because I distrusted his actions. I simply want to know things for both curiosity and so that I can learn to properly use my newly-granted privilege of protecting questions.

Journeyman Geek

@SonictheAnonymousWizHog that is what it comes across a lot of the time

Marshmallow

6:52 AM

@SonictheAnonymousWizHog No not that. You kept engaging Adam for, what, an hour?

ShaWiz

hmm... two bugs could be fixed in that hour. ;)

Marshmallow

Imagine I pinged you every 20 minutes to ask you about a suggested edit or a trivial point in one of your answers.

Sonic the Anonymous WizHog

@Marshmallow There's a 30-minute gap there.

Journeyman Geek

:/

Marshmallow

@SonictheAnonymousWizHog Same diff. No wait, that's actually worse.

Sonic the Anonymous WizHog

6:54 AM

@Marshmallow He responded to my first ping at 3:45. Then the next one was at 4:12.

Journeyman Geek

@SonictheAnonymousWizHog tbh - we've talked so many times about this that I sometimes feel like you're ignoring it on purpose

Marshmallow

@SonictheAnonymousWizHog If you said "sorry Adam, can I have a minute of your attention" and then asked all of your questions, it'd have been much better.

Sonic the Anonymous WizHog

I'm just trying to explain why it's not the case that I took up one full hour of his time.

Marshmallow

And I'm just saying why it looks bad

Sonic the Anonymous WizHog

@Marshmallow Did I keep pinging him constantly every 20 minutes? No.

Marshmallow

6:56 AM

@ShaWiz Heh, one step away from XKCD's "Mission. F***ing. Accomplished"

Journeyman Geek

@Marshmallow chewing noises

@SonictheAnonymousWizHog so essentially - If someone wanted to use the chat for official purposes - they may do so.

Marshmallow

@SonictheAnonymousWizHog The conversation you bookmarked started on 3:42 and ended on 4:51. Pinging Adam after a short while is worse because he'd have to interrupt whatever he was doing in that short time, which was unlikely to have reached fruition, to come back and respond to you. It's extremely tiring for people, that.