Tavern on the Meta

6:27 AM

I casted a down vote on this bug report: meta.stackexchange.com/questions/331792/… but got a bit tangled up in an exchange over the validity of that vote. Thoughts?

forest

I'm surprised that it has been downvoted so heavily.

That's absolutely a bug, although one which is extremely minor.

A lot of services don't correctly validate email addresses.

Given how buggy SE/SO is, it's not surprising that they would improperly validate emails.

After all, even well-managed sites tend to get email validation wrong.

@rene (I upvoted it just because it's a well-written bug report and it is a valid bug)

rene

well, you could argue "Implement Email validation according to the RFC" should be an FR first?

forest

I don't think so, because not implementing it according to the RFC is a bug by definition.

Well, for an RFC that is standard, at least.

rene

I beg to differ but I see your point

forest

You could argue that all bugs could be replaced with FRs to "implement X correctly".

But that blurs the distinction between the lack of a feature and a bug. :P

rene

6:40 AM

there could be business reasons why implementing the RFC is blocked but that only exists in my world, not in that of SE per se.

forest

In this case I think it was just caused by a poor understanding of email.

Which is, unfortunately, extremely ubiquitous.

ShaWiz

@rene I don't think SE should support non standard email addresses, even if some mail providers do support them. Didn't look deep into it though, so if question marks are part of the standard these days then yes, it's a valid bug report.

e.g. maybe ☺@☻.com is valid too?

rene

yes, everything is valid as local-name with a few special cases

forest

@ShaWiz Well ☻.com would be expanded into punycode.

It is actually identical to xn--84h.com. And ☺@xn--84h.com is a valid email.

rene

that is the tld. we're only talking local-name, right?

ShaWiz

6:53 AM

@rene good! so I'll take ‮shadow!wizard?@rene.com

(it's valid)

rene

lol

forest

I don't think ! is valid in a domain name. :P

it's not the domain

oh

domain is rene.com

6:54 AM

shadow!wizard?@rene.com@rene.com?

heh

Copy paste reversed that RTL. :P

ShaWiz

@forest almost, with another fancy character in the beginning

forest

My profile (not network profile, per-site profile) uses that kind of obfuscation.

ShaWiz

hehe

forest

So my email can't be copy-pasted but can be copied visually.

ShaWiz

Paste bomb? Sounds familiar...

forest

6:55 AM

I can be reached at &#x202e;<code>&#99;c<em>&#46;</em>li&#97;<strong></strong>m&#114;іa&commat;egr&#8204;e&#0007;m&#x200b;tѕ<b></b><i></i>er&#8203;o&#102;</code>&#x202c;.

So far, no one has sent me a spam message. :P

Sonic the Anonymous WizHog

What's that character?

forest

Which one?

Sonic the Anonymous WizHog

between the 0x6D and the 0x65

ShaWiz

plz-delete mapping meta.stackexchange.com/questions/331811/… @rene @Bart @Glorfindel

@SonictheAnonymousWizHog can't see any of these

Maybe you have some auto conversion enabled which is borked.

rene

@ShaWiz already voted on

ShaWiz

7:00 AM

@rene Me2

BTW @forest you can update your chat profile

Sonic the Anonymous WizHog

ShaWiz

@SonictheAnonymousWizHog where you see it?

Sonic the Anonymous WizHog

@ShaWiz For me it renders like that

forest

@SonictheAnonymousWizHog Ah. RTL control character.

@ShaWiz Ah right. Done.

ShaWiz

@forest hey, that's what I use too!

Sonic the Anonymous WizHog

7:01 AM

Is that actually part of the address?

ShaWiz

(so far just here for fun and trolling ;))

forest

Nope. It's just required for it to render forwards, not backwards.

ShaWiz

@forest lol

forest

:^)

Or maybe that's a nonbreaking space... Idk I'd have to look.

I have a few things in there. Some unicode homoglyphs, nonbreaking spaces, etc.

ShaWiz

Edited too, my own was also related to a long forgotten chat ban. ;)

Sonic the Anonymous WizHog

7:03 AM

@forest It seems to be a 0x7 (BEL character), which is a holdover from the teletypewriter days

forest

Oh yeah I forgot about that.

It was just something that won't get rendered in a browser but which can confuse spambots.

Sonic the Anonymous WizHog

It renders in my browser

ShaWiz

@forest and hedgehogs :D

Sonic the Anonymous WizHog

Well, one hedgehog's browser...

ShaWiz

lol

I just put it as an image

forest

7:05 AM

What browser are you using lol

ShaWiz

Getting about 50%/50% legit/spam emails, in average once a month.

Sonic the Anonymous WizHog

@ShaWiz Clearly it didn't render in the black hedgehog's browser

ShaWiz

So it's fine this way.

Sonic the Anonymous WizHog

@forest Edge

forest

O_o

ShaWiz

7:06 AM

o_O

forest

Edge is so bad that it tries to render BEL?

ShaWiz

Well Chrome also put a square in the title for special characters

forest

It's not a title though.

Sonic the Anonymous WizHog

@forest I tested in Chrome and it also rendered similarly

forest

Really? So my email isn't rendering correctly on my profile?

Sonic the Anonymous WizHog

7:08 AM

Technically, it was a square box without the question mark, but still...

forest

It renders correctly on Firefox...

sigh I might have to replace  then. :/

ShaWiz

No!!!!!! Bond..... ....

Wait, he was replaced in the new movie too, right?

forest

No that's triple-07.

ShaWiz

Let me see...

oh

rene

Gave that bug report an edit

forest

7:11 AM

OMG

That goddamn bug replacing my profile pic happened again.

Sonic the Anonymous WizHog

@forest Firefox also didn't render it correctly.

forest

@SonictheAnonymousWizHog You might be doing something weird then...

Sonic the Anonymous WizHog

It shows "0007" in a box, in the exact same spot

ShaWiz

@rene cheers, it's better now

forest

10

Q: Bug causing profile picture to change when moving comments to chat

I have a profile picture set on site A, and a different profile picture on site B. Site A is my default parent site, so it's the one that should show in all chat windows. However the image seemingly randomly changes to that of site B when I click "automatically move comments to chat" on a particu...

To be fixed in 6 to 8 weeks, I guess?

Because this is preventing me from clicking "move comments to chat".

ShaWiz

7:13 AM

@forest nah, that's in the "obvious never" area.

Unless it'll happen to (lot) other people too, or one person with lots of influence.

Such bugs take tons of time to hunt down and fix.

forest

Whatever. More work for mods to clean up comments then.

@ShaWiz Yeah, if only someone were willing to look at the source code and fix it for free.

It's a shame there are no programmers named forest on Stack Exchange who are affected by this bug enough to be willing to hunt down and fix it themselves. Guess they need to pay devs.

ShaWiz

Poor Nick spent long long hours to find this bug for example:

41

A: What happened to this user's rep, badges, and name?

A fix or this was just deployed, sorry it took so long to track down. The root cause was review audits, the common pattern in these users was they were owners of a post used for a positive review audit in the first post review queue. Down in the code was this: post.Owner.Reputation = determini...

And that one had HUGE impact.

(as in random users losing rep, and more.)

forest

Well surely all the money from intrusive, animated ads could go to paying for a fix.

ShaWiz

@forest nah it's already spent to keep the lights on. And coffee. ;)

forest

Nah.

The site has more than enough money to keep the lights on.

ShaWiz

7:19 AM

I really don't think so.

With 200+ employees, SE became really huge.

forest

Then they're paying way more than they should be.

I mean yeah, there's a lot of traffic, but servers aren't that expensive.

99% of it is just paying for the bandwidth and power.

ShaWiz

Hardware cost are likely less than 5% of their expenses.

forest

And the rest is what, developers?

Or paying for therapy for the staff who are having panic attacks over MSO posts?

ShaWiz

IMO most of the money goes to the people, i.e. salary, benefits, etc.

forest

(I guess that would rack up quite a bit...)

ShaWiz

7:21 AM

@forest actually, that might be true.

forest

Well, I'm only familiar with the costs of running servers, not a business.

ShaWiz

@forest yup

Mithrandir

A few offices, with stuff like cooks... there's more than you'd think.

forest

Why does it need so much?

ShaWiz

@Mithrandir nah, pretty sure they don't have those chefs anymore, for long time

Philip Sireci left SE at December 2017

Shanna Sobel left SE at September 2018

forest

7:32 AM

Maybe now all that money saved can go to, I dunno, fixing the site.

ShaWiz

But hey, they had good times. ;)

forest

barfs

Mithrandir

@forest ...

forest

@Mithrandir Hey, they shouldn't be wasting money.

ShaWiz

@forest you need milk

!!/coffee for

SmokeDetector

7:38 AM

@ShaWiz brews a cup of Mocha for @for

forest

thx

ShaWiz

Should be with some milk ^^

Come to Den for a fresh milk, from Kenny.

He has a cow.

Mithrandir

8:19 AM

I'm drinking really bad instant coffee again. Just this time I've actually got real milk, not soymilk.

ShaWiz

Red Mug?

Mithrandir

?

ShaWiz

It's cheap, but I don't like it.

@Mithrandir so, you have a date when you'll become a soldier?

Mithrandir

Not yet. Have a few questionnaires to fill out first.

Currently looking at קשרי חוץ.

ShaWiz

Oh. So that tweet wasn't about it. scratching head

> הם מסייעים לתכנון שיתופי הפעולה, לביצוע ותחקור הביקורים של גורמי צבא זרים בארץ ולקיום נסיעות אנשי צה"ל לחו"ל

Nice!

Mithrandir

8:29 AM

So I'm simultaneously chatting, looking stuff up on the Mitgaisim site, doing work stuff, and writing a Meta.SO answer.

And drinking coffee. :P

ShaWiz

hehe you're a legend

Mithrandir

*warrior ;P

ShaWiz

What's your processor?!

How many cores?

Mithrandir

....1

ShaWiz

dot dot dot dot 1?

hmm

I'll take one too

Mithrandir

8:31 AM

Or maybe 2.

forest

That's a dual core machine.

ShaWiz

Sharp eyes. ;)

user310756

10:16 AM

@Magisch that is so sweet! I only was just pointed to this comment. <3

user310756

Erm .. and I allowed to advertise the new Meta Stack Overflow dedicated chat room ? :D

user310756

The Meta Room

General chat & hangout for Stack Overflow, including Meta disc...

12

32

user310756

The meta room - so original lolololol

Journeyman Geek

10:55 AM

@YvetteColomb naming is hard

When I ran an irc server I used to call the first channel I made... #channel

user310756

@JourneymanGeek well The Meta Room is off the chart with creativity

user310756

@JourneymanGeek oh wow, another creative soul

Tinkeringbell

@JourneymanGeek Don't forget the name of our mod room ;)

user310756

anyway, I'm going to bed, have to be up at 5.30 nigth

Journeyman Geek

11:13 AM

Thats not my fault 😁

Tinkeringbell

Oh, true. I'll take the blame for that one :P

Marshmallow

@Tinkeringbell The moderator room of Meta Stack Exchange?

Tinkeringbell

Yep ;)

Marshmallow

snort

@JourneymanGeek In which you talked about posting to IRC channels?

Journeyman Geek

Naw. Just needed a test channel

Mithrandir

11:37 AM

@ShaWiz I do have a date now, but it's liable to change. At the moment, things are looking very good with the army for me.

ShaWiz

@Mithrandir glad to hear! No doubt things changed for good over the years.

In "my days" (lol) it was really rare to get what you wanted.

@Marshmallow your snort was recorded

Mithrandir

@ShaWiz I've got a קבא of 54 and a דפר of 90, which is apparently really high, so I have basically everything possible open to me besides combat, which I'm ineligible to do because of my health profile.

ShaWiz

11:55 AM

That's good, but still, don't build your hopes too high. IDF is still a very big organization and sometimes sense is lacking, even basic. This I'm sure has not changed.

Mithrandir

Of course.

ShaWiz

(e.g. they might put you far away from home for no good reason)

ShaWiz

12:52 PM

@JourneymanGeek beginning of your answer is... unclear. "We are."... we are what??

It's totally out of context, I'm afraid.

Marshmallow

@ShaWiz You are.

ShaWiz

Question in title is "How long.. ?" so "We are" makes very little sense?

Marshmallow

@ShaWiz It is.

ShaWiz

@Marshmallow ur face

:P

Marshmallow

@ShaWiz I do.

ShaWiz

12:53 PM

@Marshmallow too late

Never mind looks like he means the moderators do sometimes add such tags on their own.

(to which I oppose.)

Marshmallow

@ShaWiz no u

@ShaWiz You do.

ShaWiz

@Marshmallow double u

Marshmallow

u an ur sunglasses

ShaWiz

yo*2

Journeyman Geek

@ShaWiz rewrote the whole thing ;p

ShaWiz

12:59 PM

@JourneymanGeek yeah well.... still, OP likely means SE team, not knowing there's a difference.

@Marshmallow wait. You saw them?!

How?

Journeyman Geek

But pretty much any flag gets reviewed. There's a lot of stuff we may not be able to action on

ShaWiz

Imgur is blocked for you, no? @Marsh

Marshmallow

Yah

ShaWiz

That's my first name almost ^

Marshmallow

I have no idea what you're talking about

ShaWiz

1:00 PM

(just add "av")

Marshmallow

@ShaWiz avbr

ShaWiz

@Marshmallow sunglasses

I had them in some previous avatar

@JourneymanGeek question isn't about flags, but questions tagged bug or feature-request... no?

Aibobot

@ShaWiz it looked a lot like it was about flags

but fundamentally - there's some tags we don't really use unless there's some extraordinarily good reason for it

Marshmallow

status-woof

maybe

Aibobot

@Marshmallow fundamentally - you'd need to know what SE is doing internally to set those tags

We don't. Outside 'informal' circles, our insight into what SE is doing is about the same as well... what you see

ShaWiz

1:17 PM

I don't understand why SE staff can't post regular updates in the Teacher's Lounge. No panic attacks there. No negative criticism. This way at least the mods will know what to expect, what bugs are going to be fixed, etc.

Aibobot

@ShaWiz more or less, we see all those things as mods, but can't/don't do anything ;p

@ShaWiz lol.

TL isn't that peaceful

honestly - our 'social' tooling needs a lot of work

ShaWiz

Sure, but surely also not toxic?

Aibobot

@ShaWiz no comments ;p

ShaWiz

flags the TL room

Aibobot

practically though - I find out more from here and watching twitter than TL

ShaWiz

1:19 PM

That's part of the problem, I think. Info isn't flowing in the path it's expected to flow.

Aibobot

and honestly - as a MSE mod I'd actually want to (slowly) get folks to hang out here and MSE and public chat more

ShaWiz

And this upsets people.

Aibobot

@ShaWiz honestly - a lot of stuff's broken

not irrepairably I hope

On the other hand - Its not really practical to do things the old way

but the new ways also suck sometimes

Marshmallow

What about the ways that are neither old nor new?

Aibobot

@Marshmallow well - yup

Trying to influence things towards the middle ground ;p

But well, its going to take time and effort

but hey, MSE's not that big

and its not that dramatic

so its a decent place to start

@ShaWiz if there's any 'private' space I'd push for announcements - its channels

if nothing else, its an 'easier' space for most mods than chat.

But I also think interaction in 'public' spaces between staff and users is crucial in mending the rifts we have now

ShaWiz

1:27 PM

@Aibobot might be too late, looks like the staff is too afraid to try anything now.

Aibobot

@ShaWiz Its not going to be quick or easy

ShaWiz

Any word they say at this point will be "welcomed" with negativity, even if not really justified.

Aibobot

@ShaWiz why do you think I keep telling off people for being negative? ;p

Marshmallow

That is true.

Aibobot

Honestly - if a space is scary, and people don't want to come here...

Marshmallow

1:29 PM

Here's the issue, @mason: replying to dozens of comments in a single thread is hard, tedious, error-prone and mostly pointless. But you're asserting that it is both easy and my job and definitely the prerogative of anyone here to add as many such comments as they want without fear of moderator intervention. I find that problematic. I find it even more problematic that you don't appear to have a backup argument for situations in which the author is not getting paid to be here. In short, I think your argument here is bunk and I'm personally offended that you had the gall to make it. — Shog9 ♦ 12 hours ago

The Tavern isn't scary AFAIK, but their mileage might vary

Aibobot

do we fix that by constantly reminding people its full of used needles and cats

or cleaning things up so nice people actually want to come here?

Marshmallow

People just don't know or forgot about here.

Aibobot

@Marshmallow well MSE as a whole

Marshmallow

@Aibobot are you afraid of cats.

Aibobot

no

Marshmallow

1:30 PM

You're afraid of cats.

Aibobot

cats are cats

Marshmallow

And you're afraid of them.

Aibobot

cats are not dogs ;p

Marshmallow

TBH I'd actually volunteer if there was a chatroom to explain to people why their post is off-topic. Free trial, 14 days.

Then I'd go and get some sleep.

Aibobot

anyway

fundamentally - do we keep telling people that things will never change

or do we actually spend the time so we can tell people "Hey, its actually nice here, why are you scared?"

ShaWiz

1:33 PM

"had the gall"? New term learned. Thanks, Shog!

:D

!!/coffee Pseudohuman

SmokeDetector

@ShaWiz brews a cup of Mocha for @Pseudohuman

ShaWiz

@Pseudohuman enjoy the coffee

Aibobot

@Marshmallow lol. or just comment

I occationally write manual comments for lost souls cause I'm on my phone and just want to get things sorted

And there's kind of an interesting problem for meta

we attract the most enthusiastic and occationally obsessive folks

so trying to broaden our reach and stay relevant means we actually need to have staff actively interacting

Jenna Sloan

@ShaWiz Pseudohuman is broke right now

Aibobot

while well, keeping things civil and nice

/me hands @Pseudohuman some change

Jenna Sloan

1:37 PM

Did they change how messages are posted or something?

Aibobot

on chat?

nope

nothing's changed unless you somehow belatedly have issues with the login system changing

Marshmallow

0

Q: Buying a TV for a dark room

I am looking for a budget 4K TV to buy which I will be also watching in a dark room sometimes. I read reviews and comments about LG UK6200 or UK6400 and they all said it's good for a room with light but it would be a bad choice for a darker room. What does that mean? What will be the effect on ...

analysis

Well, not off-topic.

Jenna Sloan

@Pseudohuman test

Aibobot

well actually is

but I suspect that's probably better for chat

I wonder if its IPS glow issues tho

Marshmallow

@JennaSloan kinda sorta

ShaWiz

1:44 PM

@JennaSloan only here?

oh no.... all rooms! :(

@Marshmallow same way as a certain question that got closed on Health.SE isn't off topic? (it's also bragging about something, related to health in a way. ;))

Amazing enough, it has no downvotes at all, just a flat comment saying why it's off topic. :P

Aibobot

@ShaWiz well, in some cases - its not really needed

ShaWiz

@Aibobot what, downvotes? Of course, it just means people don't really care that much. :)

Aibobot

@ShaWiz or no one really wants to downvote, or don't feel its needed

Saying people don't really care... seems to be drawing a conclusion from incomplete data

Jenna Sloan

2:01 PM

@ShaWiz Remember: Pseudohuman only has 1 rep on the meta

ShaWiz

@Aibobot well in that specific site it's more like "no one saw the question", it has really low traffic. :(

Aibobot

also possible

but not everywhere is SO, or even SU

ShaWiz

Probably...

Aibobot

(for that matter, MSE ;p)

ShaWiz

@Jenna any luck with poor @Pseudo? Found what's causing the problem?

Other bots appear to be fine...

Jenna Sloan

2:07 PM

@ShaWiz Pseudohuman does not have enough rep to talk here

ShaWiz

@JennaSloan oh, but why it's also borked in Den? It has write access there

(and was active already)

Jenna Sloan

status-no-repro

Works fine for me, it must've not been active when you sent the message

ShaWiz

@JennaSloan oh. Well, thanks!

Meta Andrew T.

2:33 PM

> Tens of millions of people on Indonesia's heavily populated Java island were affected by a widespread electricity outage Sunday (Aug 4) after disruptions at several power plants, the state utility PLN said. -- Tens of millions hit by Indonesia power blackout

I'M ALIVE!

Aibobot

hm.

files a bug

ShaWiz

files a fly

rene

@MetaAndrewT. good. Better re-charge everything before the next blackout

Tinkeringbell

@MetaAndrewT. Glad you survived. What did you do to kill time? :)

Meta Andrew T.

hibernating...

Aibobot

2:58 PM

wasn't there an earthquake?

Meta Andrew T.

was 2 days ago, then happy day, then blackout...

oh well, it means tomorrow is working day as usual :/

Marshmallow

@MetaAndrewT. How strong was it?

Is it just me or are [stronger, more noticeable] Earthquakes happening more often than, say, 5 years ago?

Meta Andrew T.

3:15 PM

7.4, but lowered to 6.9

Jenna Sloan

Is it possible to award a bounty to oneself?

Meta Andrew T.

@JennaSloan no

Jenna Sloan

Oh, that's lame

Marshmallow

3:32 PM

No it's a bounty

@MetaAndrewT. You mean aftershock was 6.9 or?

Hi @usr

Meta Andrew T.

@Marshmallow initial report was 7.4, but then lowered to 6.9

Marshmallow

Then it was 6.9, not 7.4

I like your view on the world though

Very 1984

Meta Andrew T.

welp ¯_(ツ)_/¯

Marshmallow

I like the pinned messages. They're very informative about the users in this room.

Meta Andrew T.

... and I just know a post migration can be rejected after 7 years...

Marshmallow

3:40 PM

Nice. "Here's a migration for future generations; whether they accept or reject it."

Aibobot

@JennaSloan actually intentional

some folks might use a bounty to advertise, then just award it to themselves

nitsua60

4:07 PM

Hey MSE experts--do we have a question about a preference (or not) for "meta.se" vs. "MSE"? It's come up in discussion of possible "crashes" with Swedish internet sites' URLs. I've poked around and not found anything (except the Glossary using "Meta.SE" and "MSE" interchangably), but my search-fu over here isn't great.

Mithrandir

I don't think so. What people use really comes down to personal preference. I tend to use Meta.SE to avoid confusion with, for example, Math.SE, or Magento.SE, etc.

nitsua60

ditto

Well, not so much the Magento bit. But Math, sure.

(Based on my travel patterns.)

Meta Andrew T.

*.SE is just a convenient short "short name" because of its magic link

nitsua60

Mathematics

Yes! Magic links! I'd forgotten about those!

Role-playing Games

@MetaAndrewT. Thank you.

Meta Andrew T.

no prob, otherwise, they won't buy .se domain either way

great... blackout again... goodbye world

Journeyman Geek

4:38 PM

@nitsua60 some folks use MSE for math.se

And using .SE for stack exchange is common for folks inside the community

Meta Andrew T.

MSE.SO

Jenna Sloan

5:48 PM

What to do when I want to ask a question, but it concerns two different stackexchange sites? (i.e., installing Ubuntu on a Raspberry Pi.)

Aibobot

pick the best fit

that said, I half suspect the rpi site would be a better fit here

Jenna Sloan

I dunno, the rpi site seems kinda dead. (At least the chat rooms are mostly abandoned)

Aibobot

I wouldn't judge by chatrooms

Mithrandir

Don't judge the activity of a site by its chat rooms...

Aibobot

SE hasn't really done a great job with chat after the early days IMO

I'm curious to what sort of problem you'd have on an ubuntu install on a rpi tho

its simply just imaging to a SD card

Jenna Sloan

6:03 PM

Yeah, but I'm trying to install Ubuntu arm64 on a Pi 3, and the process is proving to be very difficult.

I had it working at one point, and then I somehow managed to delete its network manager, so I reformatted the microSD card again

Getting old software to run on an unsupported computer is like trying to teach a rock how to lap dance.

Feeds

10:04 PM

xkcd.com: Disappearing Sunday Update

posted on August 04, 2019

You can read the chapter list and introduction to How To at blog.xkcd.com and learn more at xkcd.com/how-to.

404

10:49 PM

@Feeds The link does not point to the actual disappearing Sunday comic. :(

The numbering of comics is broken now. This is not comic 2185, even though it appeared after 2184. The URL xkcd.com/2185 gives 404 for now, and presumably will be used for Monday comic.

But explainxkcd already got this update and automatically assigned number 2185 to this Sunday thing. What to do, what to do.

(BTW after 2184 I elaborated on a blog on my unpopular positive movie opinions.)

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